00:00:11 <nioc> I am mining on a pool for ants but not antpool
00:00:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 34.2% nanopool
00:00:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 27.7% supportxmr
00:00:58 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 17.8% hashvault
00:00:58 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 7.5% p2pool
00:00:59 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> top 4 pools ^ 
00:00:59 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2% unknown / solo
04:32:55 <m-relay> <v​ikrants:monero.social> We have the polyseed in beta if anyone wants to try it on cake wallet or monero.com
08:54:46 <plowsof> Meeting in 6 hrs~ https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/935
09:44:19 <m-relay> <c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Join us TODAY (12/2) morning at 11AM-EST/5PM-CET! with u/chowbungaman & Tuxsudo! XMR Report w/ u/bawdyanarchist, XMR News, Monero Development Segment, special guest & MORE!
09:44:20 <m-relay> <c​omradeblin:matrix.org> @: https://monero.town/post/1276651
12:23:56 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> plowsof:  could you add to the community meeting agenda - "Privacy Guardians spaces invite"
12:24:15 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> https://twitter.com/privacyguardia
12:24:40 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> they would like to have a chat with someone from Monero community
12:27:57 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> topics to cover: why is privacy is important in general, history of Monero, how is Monero different from Bitcoin, how is Monero being used today
12:28:51 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> they are a crypto community based in Switzerland
12:37:40 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> there is MoneroKon 2024 Planning Meeting today @ 17:00 UTC
12:38:00 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> in Monero Events
12:38:14 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> agenda - https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/936
15:00:07 <plowsof> Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/934#issuecomment-1837139593
15:00:31 <plowsof> greetings!
15:00:47 <m-relay> <b​tclovera:matrix.org> Hi everyone
15:01:12 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Good evening
15:01:21 <plowsof> last week we put up a vote, how's it going? https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/935
15:01:29 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> 👍️
15:01:36 <m-relay> <m​ichael:monero.social> Hello.
15:01:38 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> looks sad af
15:01:55 <plowsof> :(
15:02:01 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> Hi everyone
15:02:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Took a month to.. do nothing
15:02:09 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Hi
15:02:12 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fix nothing
15:02:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Investigate nothing
15:02:35 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just YOLO into repeating the same mistake
15:02:45 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Trusting someone who didnt care
15:03:07 <plowsof> Rucknium just left a comment, great, i suppose anyone who hasn't voted on the matter can also share their opinion now if they feel like it 
15:04:37 <plowsof> yes we still don't know how anything happened, thats the only thing which the yes/maybe voters are feeling conflicted about
15:05:11 <dsc_> i do not feel conflicted at all, it's just 'yes' for me 
15:05:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> thats the elephant in the room, and its pink, and blows bubbles
15:05:49 <plowsof> ah thanks dsc_ , i enjoyed the accurate performance review 
15:05:51 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Do i think the new wallet will be drained right away? No. 
15:05:52 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> thats just too obvious.
15:05:59 <dsc_> plowsof: thanks ;P
15:06:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> for me its simply no.
15:06:27 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> hi
15:06:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im not blocking fundraising.
15:07:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> do whatever you want, asap
15:07:20 <plowsof> what if we just pretend like luigi is temporary, and then tell yo uthat the eventual multisig group can 'oust him' as being the escrow due to bad performance and such?
15:07:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Last meeting i said "merge evrrything, fund with generalfund"
15:07:33 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Luigi isnt temporary
15:07:42 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just like bf and generalfund isnt
15:07:50 <plowsof> if we have a multisig group - they can effectively fire him from handling the payouts 
15:07:50 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> IMHO, even if luigi's management had nothing to do with the theft, he had poor judgement in: 1) Having an online wallet, 2) keeping funds in wallet that fluffy had access to after fluffy's other Core access privileges were stripped, 3) being physically away from the hot wallet for long periods (months?).
15:07:54 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its just us ignoring our problems again
15:08:31 <plowsof> the ONLY safe wallet in luigis custody was hte hot wallet on his windows machine lol
15:08:44 <m-relay> <b​tclovera:matrix.org> I don't vote yet... But the thing are clear, there were many mistakes... I like Luigi but...
15:08:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> correction
15:08:48 <plowsof> which only he had the seed for
15:08:51 <luigi1111> Well lots of other wallets but yeah not XMR project ones
15:08:58 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> the only safe wallet was ofrnxmrs overage jetfund
15:09:10 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> As a newcomer, selsta opinion is very rational IMHO https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/935#issuecomment-1826392222 We should not have a single point of failure. IMHO. Although the points Rucknium mentioned are extremely concerning.
15:09:34 <plowsof> we will always have single points of failure 
15:09:39 <plowsof> lol
15:09:40 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <l​uigi1111> Well lots of other wallets but yeah not XMR project ones
15:09:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> On the same system?
15:09:41 <luigi1111> If ArticMine wants to do it I'm more than happy with that. If some multisig participants want to go ahead in the current state I'm also ok with that 
15:09:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> This guy drunk?
15:09:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> You have shitcoins on the ccs machine?
15:10:01 <luigi1111> No ofc not 
15:10:18 <m-relay> <b​tclovera:matrix.org> I could be in favor of Luigi if the setup is good and safe
15:10:18 <plowsof> the guy who has access to the infrastructure 'can turn everything off' - so reducing single points of failure where possible seems sane
15:10:29 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> luigi csnt to forensics til after thanksgiving
15:10:37 <plowsof> a human(s) has to be trusted at some point
15:10:38 <luigi1111> Yeah that's now 
15:10:43 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Aka no setup is safe - he leaves em unattended
15:11:10 <plowsof> multisig is .. im going to guess and say 12 months away 
15:11:21 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <p​lowsof> a human(s) has to be trusted at some point
15:11:21 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Luigi has to trust his maids
15:11:22 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> lol @ "Monero Employee Performance Review"
15:11:28 <luigi1111> I don't have maids
15:11:32 <plowsof> the eventual scope of audit / funding / audit complete / reviewed  
15:11:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <p​lowsof> multisig is .. im going to guess and say 12 months away 
15:11:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Less if we have money lololololo
15:11:36 <luigi1111> But they can't get in anyway
15:12:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cant get int the wallet? someone did
15:12:14 <luigi1111> We don't know that really
15:12:23 <luigi1111> Hopefully forensics will tell us
15:12:36 <plowsof> the only safe machine is the windows one , that'll be the answer
15:13:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> You think someone Cracked the private key?
15:13:08 <luigi1111> No
15:13:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> And not simply stole it?
15:13:24 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Well then, they got into the wallet.
15:13:55 <luigi1111> Two parties had the seed. I don't really know what happened on fp's end following arrest
15:13:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Safe = full > safe = empty 
15:13:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> = somebody got into it
15:14:08 <luigi1111> Ruckniums #2 above is important 
15:14:27 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Who put the ccs funds on a shared fluffy sees?
15:14:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> you
15:14:35 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lol
15:14:46 <plowsof> Ruckniums 2) is why we have GF2 (we can't even trust our GF1, kinda sad)
15:14:48 <luigi1111> Did I deny that?
15:15:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nope. You didnt deny.
15:15:43 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> So its fluffy's fault that you moved the money to a fed wallet?
15:15:57 <luigi1111> That was a big mistake esp given this result and no obvious entry point.
15:16:10 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yep
15:16:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Red herring too
15:16:33 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Easy scapegoat
15:17:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lets wait 90days for forensics too
15:17:36 <luigi1111> 60 but yeah
15:17:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 90 now
15:18:11 <dsc_> like that will yield anything 
15:18:21 <dsc_> elite haxors go in/out without logs
15:18:24 <luigi1111> Yeah might as well count days before it was discovered 
15:18:30 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Exactly
15:18:31 <plowsof> luigi1111: If ArticMine wants to do it I'm more than happy with that. If some multisig participants want to go ahead in the current state I'm also ok with that => ArticMine to do what? lol there is no way you are passing on the baggage of saying hello and being greeted by "you merged the oscars proposal" to ArticMine :D 
15:19:00 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lets just keep playing hot potato
15:19:01 <luigi1111> Not to run CCS, to escrow the big wallet
15:19:07 <plowsof> ah i see 
15:19:10 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sorry guys. Ill stfu now. My 0.5c has been left
15:20:33 <dsc_> you could actually make the point its in the interest of Monero's foes to adopt some complicated CCS setup going forward, anything that slows down our innovation is a win in their book
15:20:47 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (fwiw, i still have luigi as a signer on a multisig scheme. But not as a sole signer for ccs funds)
15:21:06 <dsc_> that means getting rid of those that previously managed the fund, as well as contributed
15:21:06 <plowsof> luigi cant be in the multisig group because we have to oust him if he goes rogue!
15:21:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> @dsc right?:
15:21:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 1/4 of the fucking year with no fundscoming in
15:21:21 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> 1) would ArticMine be okay with custody? 2) he seems... unavailable - hot wallet top ups could take a while
15:21:27 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> This is cucked as fuck
15:22:03 <dsc_> no ofrnxmr I mean that any type of drama is a win for them, including this. While I am advocating to just go the pragmatic route.
15:22:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Those who can fix are scared, those who will, shouldnt be allowed near the money
15:22:22 <dsc_> the pragmatic route = some Core member manages the fund
15:22:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <d​sc_> no ofrnxmr I mean that any type of drama is a win for them, including this. While I am advocating to just go the pragmatic route.
15:22:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> And im agreeing with you
15:22:34 <luigi1111> Actually 60 days again but w/e
15:22:34 <dsc_> ah ok
15:22:47 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> the biggest issue is the lack of transparency and personality cults of the people connected to the core team
15:22:53 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> sept 1 > dec 1
15:23:05 <luigi1111> Funds were raised in September 
15:23:07 <plowsof> spirobel is anti core anti ccs !!! disregard everything he says!!
15:23:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> = 60 days. Gotcha
15:23:21 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Loll
15:23:23 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> A second theft would be an even bigger victory for Monero adversaries.
15:23:34 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> say all the people with the hands in the cookie jar lol
15:23:43 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> its all about politics
15:23:44 <plowsof> :$
15:23:51 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> politics truth vs real truth
15:24:01 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> political truth vs real truth
15:24:23 <plowsof> spirobel is also anti 'community meeting every other week' so please throw stones at us in a decentralised manner 
15:24:45 <dsc_> my hand has not been in the cookie jar for 3 years actually
15:24:48 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> we have a 24/7 community meeting anyway
15:24:57 <dsc_> (please pay me)
15:24:59 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im eating cookies rn
15:25:02 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> these stupid rituals are just super inefficient
15:25:04 <dsc_> nice, which?
15:25:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> No popcorn left
15:25:10 <plowsof> dsc_ you are talented so no 
15:25:20 <dsc_> ty sir
15:25:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Regular chocolate chip
15:25:33 <plowsof> you deserve funding = sorry !
15:25:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hypocrite plowsof
15:25:53 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Mr 3 months is 6
15:26:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Working for free rn
15:26:14 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> but if there is no meeting there is no need to manage it. So the person with this job now is obviously against making this more efficient
15:26:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not in the ProtectedGroup
15:26:17 <plowsof> this meeting was brought to you by DoorDash 
15:26:20 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> it all comes down to politics
15:26:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Neither is Kaya afaik
15:26:40 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> people dont care about the thing as whole
15:26:47 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> people dont care about the thing as a whole
15:27:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Foes love this filibuster though
15:27:06 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> they just care about getting their tiny hands in the cookie jar and that is all that matters
15:27:16 <plowsof> spirobel finally gets it , now 
15:27:46 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> When do I get my cookies???????
15:27:53 <luigi1111> Spirobel thrust forth thine hand
15:27:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cookie jar = fame for some people.
15:29:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <l​uigi1111> Spirobel thrust forth thine hand
15:29:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Luigi giving away our lunch again
15:29:44 <luigi1111> Too many cookies isn't good for you
15:29:48 <plowsof> we could even spend weeks/months voting on the multisig persons.. size of the group 
15:29:55 <luigi1111> How did the vote go 
15:30:01 <plowsof> ok the vote
15:30:20 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> I don't understand why we should not have multisig wallet for managing these funds, instead of relying to single person. There are many people that I believe community trusts,  plowsof, ofrnxmr and many others. (and I am not saying luigi should not one of the signature holders)
15:30:25 <luigi1111> I can nominate some community members and enslave them into service 
15:30:26 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> The governance says who givrs a fuck
15:30:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Governance says "core decides"
15:31:00 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> I already drafted our leaders
15:31:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> But they dont want to lead
15:31:17 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> 0xffc: Monero multisig is still experiential. We do not know if it is secure.
15:31:26 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> experimental*
15:32:09 <luigi1111> Ok so wat do
15:32:13 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> Any timeframe about when it will get more robust? Months? Years?
15:32:13 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Uh, multisig is also an "experience" with more than 3 signers. So it is experiential, too.
15:32:32 <luigi1111> Yeah not bullish on high signer count 
15:33:13 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > > <@rucknium:monero.social> 0xffc: Monero multisig is still experiential. We do not know if it is secure.
15:33:13 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > Any timeframe about when it will get more robust? Months? Years? 
15:33:13 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its in use by at least 1 active exchange, 1 in development, and 1 enterprise wallet (RINO)
15:33:25 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> 3 is enough IMHO. We want to prevent similiar issues. We don't want 4000 signer for each transaction.
15:33:31 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> 0xffc: At fastest pace, 6 months to one year IMHO. The pace is zero now because no one is working on it. Check recent MRL meeting logs.
15:33:40 <plowsof> rough numbers from that GH issue 9 ish yes/maybes , 6 ish no
15:33:47 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> @luigi my suggestions are 3/4 and 2/3 for donation and payout, respectively
15:34:03 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> thanks. sure.
15:34:30 <plowsof> multisig just doesnt exist, we need a solution now 
15:34:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > @luigi my suggestions are 3/4 and 2/3 for donation and payout, respectively 
15:34:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> This is after UX improvements
15:34:45 <plowsof> we needed a solution the day of the hack
15:34:49 <luigi1111> My suggestion for payout is 1 unless something online
15:34:50 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <p​lowsof> multisig just doesnt exist, we need a solution now 
15:34:50 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Have one now
15:35:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Had one weeks before the hack
15:35:12 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Months before
15:35:43 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <l​uigi1111> My suggestion for payout is 1 unless something online
15:35:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2/3 bcuz ppl afraid of wrenches. lolz
15:36:03 <plowsof> the payout wallet will be escrowed by luigi as per for "Vote"(tm) if he wants to 
15:36:07 <m-relay> <a​ck-j:matrix.org> I would vote no, pending the forensic investigation. luigi was a target once and we dont know how the funds were lost, it would be idiotic to try the same thing again and just hope the threat actor goes away.
15:36:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> But im fine with 1 for payout, if the signer is
15:36:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im not ok with luigi being the sole signer :)
15:36:36 <m-relay> <a​ck-j:matrix.org> If we discover how the funds were stolen, I am fine with luigi being the custodian
15:36:53 <plowsof> just restating that a multisig group is used - for the big wallet - will have the opportunity to say "hey luigi.. we dont like yo uanymore. we're not sending you funds to payout anymore' 
15:36:58 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> For people who have posted CCS ideas, why not apply to MAGIC? Is it the KYC? Give hints about how MAGIC could improve worker experience please :)
15:36:58 <plowsof> please keep this in mind for da future 
15:37:27 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> hardware/cold wallet for the next few months (custodian pending), fast-track multisig development and move onto that eventually?
15:37:32 <m-relay> <b​tclovera:matrix.org> Agree
15:37:37 <plowsof> Rucknium: im unemployable, theres my reason
15:37:52 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> unless taking the risk on multisig is worth it in this case
15:38:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > hardware/cold wallet for the next few months (custodian pending), fast-track multisig development and move onto that eventually?
15:38:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Agreed. But not luigi. 
15:38:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> likely to lose the hw device
15:38:26 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> multisig isn't that far off - the current deadlock is whether it should continue to be within monero-project/monero or not
15:38:41 <luigi1111> Hasn't happened yet. But it could
15:38:48 <plowsof> we must not forget the work tobtot has done (before this even happened.. for working on QR code transfers in feather AND recently on multisig UX with jeffro256)
15:38:53 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> kayaba already has a working impl, a review is all that is needed - although it is not controlled by core
15:38:53 <plowsof> tobtoht*
15:39:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <p​lowsof> we must not forget the work tobtot has done (before this even happened.. for working on QR code transfers in feather AND recently on multisig UX with jeffro256)
15:39:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> This is what im alluding to
15:39:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Working without real assurances
15:39:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> On hero missions
15:39:55 <m-relay> <b​tclovera:matrix.org> Yep this is important point
15:39:56 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> When we could use this opportunity to BRING IN mkre dev power
15:40:07 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> if the current core were to be used, it would just take a couple of the current devs to shift focus on it
15:40:13 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Gives us a reason to MOVE FASTER
15:40:31 <plowsof> the multisig group will lead the coup 
15:40:33 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Instead we stall for an entire quarter and come out with "we got no ideas"
15:40:53 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Plowsof is afraid of money corrupting him
15:41:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> But he knows hes not built like that 😂
15:41:13 <plowsof> next month, luigi will more than likely be sent funds from the general fund to payout some work in progress porposals (the same will be done for the rest of them) 
15:41:28 <plowsof> we wont lose any sleep over that 
15:41:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes we will
15:41:50 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Where tf is fcmp ?
15:42:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> i havent slept in a month
15:42:39 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Where tf is the friggen coordinator?
15:42:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Starving?
15:42:48 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> Rucknium: it's the KYC
15:42:54 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> applying for part time jobs?
15:43:32 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> we have billlions that we secure for people
15:43:59 <plowsof> DoorDash app is always available (can go online at any moment! and cash out daily)
15:44:13 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> TIL
15:44:30 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Pays bettet than monero too, i bet 😆
15:44:53 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Wait. You dont have to request pay, ans be met with silence?
15:45:00 <plowsof> in the winter, (bad weather/rain - it's hard to compete with the earnings possible delivering food)
15:45:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Doordash actually has your money?
15:45:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> They didnt lose it, and let you continue working without telling you?
15:45:47 <plowsof> DD sponsored me to infiltrate the Monero community and recruit delivery riders, this is why i targetted the CCS 
15:46:39 <plowsof> we have KYC like Magic, but you can begin work /getting paid even before your proposal is merged (or not) lol ok ill stap 
15:47:12 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> KYC is dealbreaker for some of us.
15:47:48 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Too bad we dont have any proposals for a monero doordash - oh yeah, we cant merge anything.
15:48:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> K. So plowsof, can we agree were doing plan a or b, and we can do it today? Proposals can go up for monday etc?
15:49:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> "what is plan a or b"
15:49:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Plan a: fix it
15:49:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> plan b: fix it harder
15:49:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> No vote, just a yes or no
15:49:46 <plowsof> luigi1111 has won the vote, by a huge majority, i know an acceptance speech on short notice is a bit rude but do you have anything to say?
15:50:12 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> https://youtu.be/UA_7lcLD_8k
15:50:13 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> EOD
15:50:18 <m-relay> <b​tclovera:matrix.org> We cannot delay the proposals any longer
15:50:40 <plowsof> EODecember lmao
15:51:04 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> :D
15:51:07 <luigi1111> Um. 
15:52:01 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> Great speech!
15:52:09 <plowsof> luigi everyone... thank you. so luigi is escrowing everything , right 
15:53:02 <plowsof> ArticMine thoughts on escrowing a big wallet and sending luigi CCS funds every x month(s)? 
15:53:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sure, if thats what people are to believe
15:53:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> I say "its fixed" and we can disclose how in 60days
15:54:00 <plowsof> the eventual multisig group for the big wallet will "oust" any bad performing escrow holders 
15:54:13 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats not possible
15:54:29 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> You cant "oust" the supreme leader who controls everything
15:54:33 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Anyway
15:54:48 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fixed today
15:54:48 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> ccs proposaks can go up soon
15:54:49 <plowsof> luigi shouldnt be in the Msig group of the large wallet 
15:54:56 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Who needs to be merged
15:55:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Plowsof, kaya
15:55:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> who else
15:56:17 <plowsof> xmrscott has just shared their opinion on the GH issue also, thanks 
15:56:30 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Erc, observer
15:57:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Jeffro and selsta are covered by GF (right)
15:57:25 <plowsof> the animated explainer video proposal that would need just ONE xmr (plus the stolen funds reimbursed from the general fund) 
15:57:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Any objections to merging
15:57:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> plowsof - coordinator
15:57:47 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> kaya - FCMP
15:57:47 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Erc - monero-site
15:57:48 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> observer - continued work
15:58:17 <m-relay> <m​ichael:monero.social> Congratulations luigi1111 and dankon very much for the hard work.
15:58:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > Jeffro and selsta are covered by GF (right)
15:58:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dangerousfreedom is as well?
15:58:28 <plowsof> hooray luigi1111 
15:58:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > Congratulations luigi1111 and dankon very much for the hard work.
15:58:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> What are we celebrating
15:58:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Merge some damn proposals
15:58:50 <plowsof> XD
15:58:52 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fkn circlejerk shit
15:59:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Were here, not for us, but for the proposers
15:59:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > Any objections to merging
15:59:23 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > plowsof - coordinator
15:59:23 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> kaya - FCMP
15:59:23 <plowsof> pipes need unclogging 
15:59:24 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Erc - monero-site
15:59:24 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> observer - continued work
15:59:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^
15:59:52 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Don't threaten me with a good time
16:00:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> So.. nobody is going to vote?
16:00:36 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > Any objections to merging
16:00:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > plowsof - coordinator
16:00:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> kaya - FCMP
16:00:38 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Erc - monero-site
16:00:38 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> observer - continued work
16:00:39 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^
16:01:54 <plowsof> hearing ArticMines opinion on the offer to escrow a big ccs wallet sounds great tho NGL  + EODecember acceptance speach from luigi1111 with proposals merged and being funded 
16:02:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> fuck that
16:02:03 <plowsof> i have zero objections ofrnxmr 
16:02:04 <luigi1111> Can't merge until there's a new wallet address up
16:02:09 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats for after the meeting
16:02:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <p​lowsof> i have zero objections ofrnxmr 
16:02:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thank you
16:02:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <l​uigi1111> Can't merge until there's a new wallet address up
16:02:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> I said that.
16:02:34 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> note that the agreed upon condition was for luigi1111 to create a more secure wallet
16:02:52 <plowsof> the latest version of Windows this time
16:02:56 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> and yeah there's still website plumbing to fix
16:03:11 <plowsof> not the standard edition either (cheap skate volunteer) .. professional or nothing
16:03:52 <plowsof> Core is a tool for the community to use woohoo
16:04:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Meet back here in 1 week to discuss more proposals?
16:04:16 <m-relay> <s​pirobel:monero.social> if you dont have a license key i can send you a crack no problem
16:04:23 <plowsof> thank you spirobel 
16:04:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Such has hintos and v1docq47
16:04:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Such as*
16:05:41 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> hinto: Would you consider working on Seraphis instead of cuprate? There is already a dev working on cuprate. About 2.5 devs working on Seraphis now I think.
16:06:32 <plowsof> lets end the meeting here then, wen can the one whale start donating to proposals luigi1111? stay tuned. thanks all for joining x 
16:06:44 <m-relay> <m​ichael:monero.social> Dankon everyone for a good meeting.
16:06:50 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> I know Monero has no bosses, but having two people on cuprate and 2.5 on Seraphis does not seem like a good allocation of resources.
16:06:52 <plowsof> oh , ideas list suggestions
16:07:35 <plowsof> there have been no cuprate proposals merged onto the ccs for funding 
16:08:09 <plowsof> boog's one had direct benefits to monero-core (and we are reaping the rewards already)
16:08:39 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <p​lowsof> lets end the meeting here then, wen can the one whale start donating to proposals luigi1111? stay tuned. thanks all for joining x 
16:08:39 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> I will let you know 😂
16:08:45 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/boog_2_months_cuprate.html
16:08:50 <plowsof> else we have to re-hash all of the same arguments for putting forward a monerod rust implementation to funding 
16:09:32 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> Rucknium: depends what else is left to be implemented in Seraphis
16:09:52 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> i might just be stepping on toes joining this late - not to mention the c++ landmines
16:10:14 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> never too late with seraphis
16:10:34 <plowsof> anyone on the twitters want to talk about Monero with  "Privacy Guardians spaces invite" https://twitter.com/privacyguardia have an open invite
16:10:56 <plowsof> +1 for never too late 
16:11:03 <plowsof> im head of audits 
16:11:10 <plowsof> lmao
16:11:42 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> haha. yep. "how did i end up here"
16:11:49 <plowsof> ZKsecurity wishes us a quick recovery BTW
16:12:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 😭😭
16:12:09 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> how much did they want again?..
16:12:12 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 10k/week?
16:12:16 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> dm me if anyone is available to chat about Monero with Privacy Guardians on twitter spaces
16:12:17 <plowsof> yes 
16:12:34 <plowsof> thanks ajs_ ,  i almost forgot 
16:13:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (im not saying price is bad. Im saying - we HAVE MONEY TO RAISE. Not time to fk around)
16:13:59 <plowsof> 100%.. we have to raise funds to formalise seraphis AND then fund ZKsecurity who so far are the best candidates to look at the paper 
16:14:32 <plowsof> jberman has took over the 'get seraphis formalised part' now thankfully because >plowsof 
16:14:53 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> And cz left binance. Who knows if he'll keep donating
16:17:29 <nioc> as to the 2 of 3 multisig, what are the odds that something happens to 2 of them and the wallet is therefore lost?
16:17:50 <nioc> sorry missed the meeting, was out shopping for Cat
16:18:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cat won the election
16:18:20 <nioc> \o/
16:18:45 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <n​ioc> as to the 2 of 3 multisig, what are the odds that something happens to 2 of them and the wallet is therefore lost?
16:18:45 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Depending on who the  3 are, i say 0.. 
16:18:45 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> if one disappears, the other 2 can move funds
16:19:13 <nioc> whoops, the other got hit by that damn bus
16:19:21 <nioc> it cannot be zero
16:19:27 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Same day, same time?
16:20:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Feds raiding everybody = possible
16:20:17 <nioc> you think between it being known and action being taken no time has passed?
16:20:47 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> if plowsof disappears for 24hrs, we can assume hes dead
16:21:06 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> If cat disappears for 6 hrs, same thing
16:21:21 <nioc> 24 of 25 multisig 
16:21:23 <nioc> lololol
16:21:30 <plowsof> <3
16:21:39 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Is bestest. Then we can freeze all funds forever
16:22:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sir please confirm that works on ledger
16:22:51 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (inside joke.. ptsd)
16:23:39 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> Each signature should have its own backup. Sign1 {Person1, Backup1}, Sign2 {Person2, Backup2, Sign3{Person3, Backup3}.
16:24:23 <nioc> something like that would be needed yes
16:24:48 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> Each signature should have its own backup. Sign1 {Person1, Backup1}, Sign2 {Person2, Backup2}, Sign3{Person3, Backup3}.
16:25:06 <nioc> so 2 of 6  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
16:25:56 <nioc> no matter the solution backup is needed
16:26:13 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> Good thing is, it is mathmatics, we can scale it as much as we want ( and have trusted people to take part in it ).
16:26:27 <nioc> I imagine how it gets implemented matters
16:26:34 <nioc> cause humans
16:27:49 <luigi1111> Possession is 11/10ths or something 
16:34:31 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> 0xFFFC: Could you explain your idea? I don't understand it.
16:37:01 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> Oh, I was explaining there are ways to make it more robust. nioc said what if 2 out of 3 participants in multisig goes missing. I said we can have back up for each participants. For example each signature will have a lead and backup role. Lead will be the default one to sign, but backup will have the signature too. That way system is more resliant if participants goes missing in m<clipped message>
16:37:01 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> ulitsig walletn (for our CCS wallet).
16:41:14 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> It's ok, but that means that private key material will be transported by the internet. You need to be sure that the communication is flawlessly e2ee
17:15:02 <nioc> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> Rucknium: depends what else is left to be implemented in Seraphis <<>> for seraphis the channel is no-wallet-left-behind and the person to talk to on matrix there is rbrunner7
17:18:25 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> hinto: ^
18:41:00 <luigi1111> 2/3 becomes 2*/6 also
19:55:59 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> nioc Rucknium: i'm not against the idea although it would be quite the betrayal to boog :)
19:59:03 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> 1~ month of cuprate DB design back-and-forth would have been for naught
20:12:29 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Currently we are working with 3 devs on the wallet more or less in parallel. I doubt that right now a 4th dev would be a big win. But once we will have a stable new wallet "API", and it's question to adjust large pieces of the rest of the Monero codebase, the possibilities to work in parallel will probably open up considerably.
20:12:40 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> I would estimate that's several month into the future.
20:13:25 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Ah, almost forgot, we already have a 4th dev that is currently learning their way around the codebase :)
20:16:10 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Anyway, the way I see it, for @hinto the following could be a possible career: First work several months on Cuprate, and then switch to Seraphis work. One of several possible of course.
20:17:29 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Stupid Element did not generate a proper reference: hinto
20:24:50 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> So we have an answer to the two important questions?
20:25:35 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Who’s holding the bag now and how the jetfund flew off?
20:27:31 <dsc_> btw for those using CLion with Monero, you'll know it can become quite slow at times
20:27:49 <dsc_> jetbrains released a new version of CLion with a new backend that is suppose to perform better for large codebases
20:44:46 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Windows enterprise with paid licence :0
21:03:03 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> dsc_: I'm running CLion Nova and it's a noticeable improvement
21:32:05 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> rbrunner7: thanks - "career" is a little scary to read lol
21:36:16 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> what would be required/low-hanging fruit after the integration? RPC?
21:45:32 <luigi1112> if someone needs paid plz contact me
21:57:28 <plowsof> Dangerousfreedom ^