00:02:28 ypavtv97lx: 00:09:23 <123bob123:matrix.org> Ofrn relay 00:23:15 seems my account was suspended: https://www.reddit.com/user/So_F_What/ 00:23:46 but weirdly other comments are intact like on this post: 00:23:48 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/189w8mb/bitcointalk_bans_btc_mixers_but_allow_monero/ 00:24:30 reddit is a septic tank anyway. 00:27:15 maybe coincidence but it was banned right after discussing /r/bitcoin censorship with another, he made a post on /r/cryptocurrency which was removed after about hour maybe by mods 00:27:45 i never linked to other subs or in anyway broke the rules 00:28:07 maybe coincidence but it was suspended right after discussing /r/bitcoin censorship with another, he made a post on /r/cryptocurrency which was removed after about hour maybe by mods 00:28:24 maybe coincidence but it was suspended right after discussing /r/bitcoin censorship with another user, he made a post on /r/cryptocurrency which was removed after about hour maybe by mods 00:29:06 <123bob123:matrix.org> 👆 00:29:24 yep already added to bookmarks ;) 00:30:57 anyway, just wanted to report this weird behavior as I wouldn't mind reddit account to be suspended but deleting targeted comments is really weird and seems some moderator, maybe even global reddit moderator has something personal to Monero. 00:31:00 cheers. 00:35:52 shadowbanning happens a lot on that godforsaken platform 01:11:15 Hey fam, can anyone tell me whether there are any exchanges that offer automatic buys? Trying to start dollar cost averaging some cryptos including xmr. Could pay for it with USD or LTC preferably. wort wort wort 01:12:52 Like DCA? 01:12:59 Kucoin has bots 01:13:45 Lol. Yeah, dca. (read the whole msg first, ofrn) 01:13:55 Lol 01:14:07 Yeah dca 01:14:38 Im us based btw 01:14:47 Havent used kucoin in quite some time, but they had bots before 01:15:03 Way to DCA is to just yolo into it - says ofrnxmr 01:15:16 The best way* 01:16:16 Unless youre dca out of other crypto. Then i guess you can run a rebalancing bot or something 01:16:16 Monero Markets 01:16:20 Yeah w all the etf stuff going on I want to spend 2024 aggressively DCA some crypto. Yolo 01:16:48 On kucoin? I am not familiar with using bots 01:18:09 Monero Markets to continue trade or pricetalk 01:18:28 But yeah. Binance probably does too. Idk 01:18:40 I yolo on localmonero 01:30:50 I have heard dca described as the lowest average 01:30:59 it's also the higheat average 01:31:05 it's the average 01:31:16 *the highest 01:32:58 Be a man. 100x futures 01:33:19 Even if youre not a man (no offence to non-men) 01:33:57 YOLO but YODO too (unless youre niocs cat) 01:34:51 Cat yoloed by walking over the keyboard 01:36:03 why do the make the enter key so large? 02:07:18 The other night I went to reset my TradeOgre password but the link they sent me doesn't support HTTPS which I thought was sketchy, do yall still trust them or nah lol. I was reading some stuff on reddit about them recently. (Kindly tell me if discussions about exchanges belongs in the other room thnx) 02:10:21 Hello sir and/or madam and/or other. This "Community" Monero Community room is intended for community work related endeavors, organization etc. 02:10:21 Monero for general monero talk 02:10:22 Monero Markets for price, exchanges, trading. 02:10:22 Kindly, 02:10:23 ofrnxmr 02:11:18 The above question may be suitable for Monero 02:12:02 And Monero Offtopic for when you dont know 02:17:12 to answer your question - id have a hard time believing that youd be sent an http link to reset your password. 02:17:13 when i try to visit TO via http, it redirects to https after using cloudflare. 02:17:27 http://tradeogre.com/how-to-buy/XMR 02:17:27 https://tradeogre.com/how-to-buy/XMR 02:19:24 And id you did end up on an http site, i'd hope you didnt enter your password on it.. 02:19:57 When I click the link in the pw reset email it says it doesnt support https. The pw reset link begins with "url9296.tradeogre.com/randomcharacters". The main site does HTTPS. 02:20:51 Begins with what now? 02:21:17 Pretty surr u left out the first 7-8 chars (http...) 02:21:24 No, I did not change my password because it felt weird. Also, and this may be completely unrelated, I searched "url9296" and the only result was a text file to a script that looks like it blocks ads or trackers and url9296 is included on it 02:22:02 Link in TO email starts with http or https? 02:22:10 http://url9296 02:22:57 http://url9296.tradeogre.com/ is what it clearly says. 02:23:45 Contacted their support, was pretty much told "that's weird" 02:31:23 And this is what shows up on google when you search "url9296" in quotes. I dont know a lot about pcs compared to probably most of yall but it def gave me a sketchy feel 02:31:23 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/mqPeOMWZPZZUGWwHCYXBCnWs 03:35:15 did people discuss the observer proposal? I think no progress bar is more or less a nonstarter, but that's not something that couldn't be changed. 03:44:52 Nothing was discussed. Ofrnxmr said merge 03:45:16 yes sir, oscar 03:46:03 i mean, when the question was poised, nobody replied 03:46:29 Plowsof said he had no objections (plowsof = nobody) 04:03:04 er, I mean the observer ccsv2 proposal on the newsletter, not an actual ccs proposal 04:55:08 <123bob123:matrix.org> Link? 05:37:31 https://monero.observer/cypherpunk-transmission-017-rethinking-monero-ccs-cypherpunk-proposal/ 05:42:25 direct funding is not an option for me 05:43:48 Almost 2hrs later n im still wondering why luigi is trolling 05:47:52 the act must go on 05:48:06 I will propose something tomorrow 05:48:17 or today rather 05:50:28 <123bob123:matrix.org> Rarr 05:57:52 <123bob123:matrix.org> Hows the investigation going 05:59:21 <123bob123:matrix.org> Has the FAA found the jetfund? 06:00:32 Its in building 7 06:10:54 we are playing phone tag rn but tomorrow 06:15:16 <123bob123:matrix.org> Ok will tell nsa😬 06:18:36 They prolly stole it 07:19:46 luigi1111: is possible to have the progress bar visible with a wallet address and private view key for a direct funding proposal? 07:27:22 if possible, i think direct funding should be an option if it goes through the same vetting process as other escrowed proposals 07:30:18 when moved to "funding required", they can some type of tag indicating it is an external self-custody wallet 07:31:08 then it would be up to the donors to decide to donate or not 07:34:34 the "idea stage" would still serve the function of weeding out low quality proposals and community feedback for proposal improvement 07:36:27 Direct funding on the CCS is laughable after seeing 2600 accumulate from vetted but abandoned proposals 07:48:34 hopefully lesson was learned 07:49:13 it should have been broken up to smaller milestones 07:49:23 with concrete deliverables 07:52:57 it was even more laughable seeing over a half a mill stolen 07:53:12 <123bob123:matrix.org> Have a payment wallet and jetfund wallet 08:31:49 Basically 90% spam posts. 09:13:45 <123bob123:matrix.org> https://monero.observer/cypherpunk-transmission-017-rethinking-monero-ccs-cypherpunk-proposal/ 14:10:11 it's really ironic we're making literal money and struggle so much with coordinating holding and dispersing funds 14:23:12 It's a theoretically hard problem. I'm not surprised it's difficult to solve. 14:24:07 What if the escrow agent(s) were paid? We have almost 0 volunteers to escrow, but that could change if there was an actual incentive for it. 14:37:32 (I know Core members are not supposed to be paid) 14:55:16 here's an insane take: people often use LocalMonero for escrow 14:55:22 they charge 1% 14:56:01 they probably already hold significantly more than the entire CCS wallet on their site 14:56:33 and have been long term dedicated to XMR. could work at least until we have damn multisig, Idk 14:57:23 then if you have individual funding you can do 2/3 multisig, where one key is the person getting paid, the other key is the person deciding milestones, and the third key resolves disputes between the first two 14:58:56 Localmonero uses multisig 14:59:16 well what the fuck are they using then and why can't we use that, are they using experimental code in production? 14:59:33 Yes 14:59:38 ooph okay 14:59:52 spooky 15:00:41 Its not experimental compared to the old, vulnerable and "stable" multisig 15:01:20 yeah I just assumed their wallets were single sig 15:02:06 I keep wondering what other exchanges are doing too 15:02:20 somebody with clout might get a real response from Kraken about it 15:03:38 LocalMonero can start their own CCS where they earn 1% 15:03:49 maybe cz will talk to us in public now :P 15:04:12 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/9050 example of a recently found multisig bug 15:04:26 We can use experimental multisig for the CCS wallet, but need better wallet UX and an alternative for the MMS. 15:05:43 You're confident it's at least no worse than single sig I guess? 15:06:07 I believe in ooo 15:06:35 but yes UX for multisig is god awful I know, it's needed work since I first got interested in XMR 15:06:56 Kaya did some reviews, vtnerd and koe as well, was audited, but ooo still was unsatisfied 15:07:25 High standards, that nym 15:07:32 CCS aside usable multisig is probably the single biggest thing we could do for XMR adoption right now 15:07:58 tobtoht gets it 15:08:31 Don't forget Jeffro ❤️ 15:43:21 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/935#issuecomment-1841052378 15:57:03 **Voter applications and committee candidate announcements are now available for the MAGIC Monero Fund committee.** 15:57:03 With the Monero CCS incident, now is a very important time to focus on the MAGIC Monero Fund. 15:57:04 If you are keeping up-to-date with the Monero ecosystem, please apply to be a voter, and if you have the time, please consider running to the committee member positions. 15:57:04 **Apply**: https://magicgrants.org/Monero-Fund-2024-Election/ 15:57:05 **Tax-deductible donation**: https://monerofund.org 16:25:17 We have 3 real earth months to either bring multisig out of experimental state and/or increase the UX 16:30:57 well we can at least have a meeting about starting a conversation 16:36:11 Feedback/conversation for luigis proposal this saturday 9th? 16:43:32 Ajs_ direct funding (DF) itself is not laughable, its just for the CCS - ive lost count how many times ive needed to use the fact that we hold the funds as leverage to receive updates / progress. DF on the CCS would only be a small % of cases e.g. a monerokon LLC that has been self functioning/holding funds already 16:50:52 could be might fault in being able to clearly articulate what I envision for DF proposal 16:51:03 it is a different role for the CCS 16:51:39 instead of holding funds, the would vet proposals and negotiate for a breakdown milestones 16:53:25 for an example, if a proposer is seeking 100 XMR, the could be asked to divide the the proposal into 5 parts will defined deliverables of what will be completed for each part 16:53:54 one 1 milestone at a time is moved to funding required 16:54:50 the "leverage" to get updates/progress reports is completing the milestone for the remaining parts to be moved to funding required one at a time 16:56:46 the proposer will depend on reputation and their track record for DF 16:57:01 could be my fault in being able to clearly articulate what I envision for DF proposal 16:57:11 could be my fault in not being able to clearly articulate what I envision for DF proposal 16:57:37 instead of holding funds, the community would vet proposals and negotiate for a breakdown milestones 16:58:07 for an example, if a proposer is seeking 100 XMR, they could be asked to divide the the proposal into 5 parts with defined deliverables of what will be completed for each part 17:01:03 but as plowsof notes, this would make up a small % of cases 17:05:24 Lol. 17:06:12 At this point in the idea, youve got problems 17:08:03 anyone want tell ajs why "raising funds for 1 milestone at a time" is 🤨? (he cant see me /ignore ofrnxmr) 17:15:01 So, i want 100xmr, 5 milestones 17:15:01 Milestone 1: 20xmr 17:15:01 bye 17:15:16 I didnt even open a git repo. Gbye 17:15:55 Or 17:15:55 i do milestone 1, and milestone 2 goes up for funding and fails to be funded 17:16:53 We repurpose the 0 xmr If that happens dont worry 17:16:58 No monero = no work. 17:17:13 No, i mean, for the dev 17:17:44 What does the dev do just kill the project? That would have been funded it people knew the cost on day 1? 17:19:29 either dev stops because dev chooses to (fully funded) 17:19:29 or dev stops because the well dried up while they were working 17:20:15 We already have nonsense where devs fk off due to exchange rates - lets add nonsense where donators fk off due to short attention spans 17:21:02 😂 i hate to mention my buddy geonic, but is ccs was proposed as such 17:22:04 was supposed to be "pay 1/2 first, then if i do as i said i would, pay the other half and hope i finish milestone 2" 17:22:53 Aka direct funding where the next milestone was dependent on the first. 17:22:53 only, id think the second milestone would not have been funded or even merged 17:24:30 you need money to pay ppl. Escrow is to earmark funds for the dev 17:24:59 You need to SECURE funding 17:25:09 Not just assume it will come 17:26:25 > We repurpose the 0 xmr If that happens dont worry 17:26:25 And were the clowns with no money to redirect the failed projects 17:26:29 Just writeoffs 17:28:47 `reason for closing: couldnt secure funding 80% into completion" 17:30:17 elephant in room is that we have ccs that fall apart because $ value raised != $ value at payout 17:31:29 To that i say: you get a specific amt of xmr, not dollars. If you need $, magic and kyc. 17:32:02 Ccs does raises and pays xmr, not dollars. 17:32:13 Ccs raises and pays xmr, not dollars. 17:33:43 i never hear complaints about being overpaid if $ value increased between donation and payout 17:34:38 "i will only work in a bull market".. we pay xmr, idk what a bull is. 17:34:38 if you get 35xmr, and price jumps 10x, you still get 35xmr 17:38:10 tldr: ccs = escrow. 17:40:19 No escrow = a completely different relationship. 17:40:19 dev is no longer accountable to monero, but to investors. Monero just becomes a hall monitor, a mall cop 17:41:41 Only reason for ccs in that situation is to pretend like the proposals were vetted 18:18:30 Ofrnxmr: Why do you think Milestone 1 would go to the funding part before it's completed? I assume it wouldn't. 18:18:47 it's essentially a DF retroactive funding model 18:18:59 As i understand it 18:19:40 The only issue is the lack of security about work getting funded once it's completed, i suppose 18:21:31 Sorry, brb. 18:21:31 So the proposal is DF = make devs work before we accept their proposals? Then we'll try to get the money _after_ they complete a milestone? 18:22:19 Thats just as bad. 18:22:19 now, i draw a line between this and retroactive funding. As retroactive funding is just another word for a retail purchase 18:23:03 i have no problems with us raising money to pay for finished goods. Theres 0 risk in that. 18:23:44 That's good you thought things through. 18:24:47 Ya, just tired n hungry 18:24:48 Brb 18:26:50 However, you could also move Milestone to funding required before it's completed. The most the community loses is the XMR amount associated with that milestone. In return we learn to burn that nym's reputation and it won't be allowed to propose anymore projects. The downside is the reputation/entry barrier for new nyms, and the infinite amount of new nyms that can be created. 18:28:53 there could be hybrid system, where new/low reputation nyms use the traditional ccs method 18:29:48 known nyms with a track record could opt in for DF 18:32:08 Midi - we may also lose the dev / project 18:33:17 If the money doesnt come fast enough 18:33:21 Devs gotta eat too 18:33:54 not "hope for the best" every 4 weeks 18:39:21 ofrnxmr: yes, that's a risk. But it's we accept either risk of fund and run (A), or risk of no funding (B). It can't be both. Perhaps the method preffered can be part of the proposal. New proposers would be told to choose B until their rep suits A. 18:39:55 *but we either accept 18:49:38 there could be hybrid system, where new/low reputation nyms use the traditional ccs method <<>> devs with the highest rep have already expressed that they want to be funded using the current CCS format 19:07:16 https://twitter.com/XMRadar/status/1732113798675267929 19:07:22 #notashitcoin 19:07:32 😄 20:18:05 XMR doesn't need a stablecoin. It is a stablecoin. 20:22:07 <123bob123:matrix.org> But a “we” stable 20:22:13 <123bob123:matrix.org> But are “we” stable 21:02:23 flexible like a rock 21:03:14 <123bob123:matrix.org> Kinky 22:24:09 dsc_ is continually kinky 22:31:31 you guys are making it weird