01:35:21 <m-relay> <c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Join us TMR at 11AM-EDT/5PM-CET to talk about Monero Nodo progress with Abdullah! and more @: https://monero.town/post/1345966
04:38:31 <selsta> https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/9083
04:38:35 <selsta> what do i reply to this lol
04:46:29 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> replay
04:46:29 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> " #FE "
04:46:43 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> reply
04:46:43 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> " #FE "
04:47:19 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> or "thats nice"
05:08:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Selsta - dont reply :P
05:09:00 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Watch this little magic trick lolol
06:04:17 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> I labeled it wontfix
06:11:24 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> +1
06:11:39 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Close
06:12:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> If they want to debate, they can dm me or something
06:12:27 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> put your contact details there
06:14:17 <plowsof> The supply is now capped at infinity and will half every 4 years, thank you the suggestion, closing as completed 
06:15:20 <plowsof> https://yewtu.be/watch?v=sRwSqM0YBto maybe they want a video
06:18:47 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Done
06:19:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Also, have they never heard of WOWNEROOO
06:20:00 <m-relay> <0​xfffc:matrix.org> I think I should close that issue and no further comments.
12:08:15 <m-relay> <s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> don't we already have a capped supply https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/src/cryptonote_config.h#L54 ?
12:08:15 <m-relay> <s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> will be reached in ~10¹⁴ years if my math isn't too far off
13:14:44 <sech1> It's already reached
13:14:54 <sech1> Wait, no
13:15:00 <sech1> It will be reached summer 2024
13:18:41 <Inge> o_O 
14:38:20 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> i hear a new version of feather has been released 👀
14:40:53 <dsc_> (c)(tm)
14:54:43 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> how do i pronounce guix? cus i did a guix for feather yesterday, its like gitian for monero but it worked first time
14:54:52 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> geeks
14:55:40 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> so not goo-eee-EX , ok lol
14:56:49 <Lyza> I like gwiks
14:57:14 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> Monero GUI is Monero Goo-EEE right???
14:57:23 <Lyza> that's how I say it
14:57:28 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> yes haha
14:57:32 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> loll
14:57:36 <Lyza> fucking terrible name btw most people don't know what the fuck a GUI is
14:58:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Should name it "wallet of vitalik"
14:59:09 <Lyza> won't matter when we finally make feather the official =P
15:00:42 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> is it meeting time? https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/934#issuecomment-1847323570 part 3
15:00:53 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> greetings!
15:01:01 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> hi
15:01:15 <Lyza> hey dude
15:02:07 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Please apply to the MAGIC Monero Fund to get funding for your projects to improve Monero: https://monerofund.org/apply  . We're lonely over here 🥲
15:02:26 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Hello
15:03:36 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> right, this was kind of impromptu .. with luigis proposal only a few days ago to temporarily kick start the CCS
15:04:02 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/935#issuecomment-1841052378
15:04:18 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> what do we think about it? can feather wallet be used for offline transactions?
15:04:40 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> We dont know what is used for GF
15:04:45 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Who cares
15:04:59 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yolo, lets get merging..
15:05:12 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> hi
15:05:38 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> afaik we don't know "how" it got hacked
15:05:49 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> GF2 balance is somewhere around 11k xmr now , im not sure exactly but its not far off
15:06:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> on a cake wallet somewhere, maybe (im joking. Bf isnt crazy)
15:06:32 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> we don't know how it got hacked, but i know that the only machine/wallet that didnt get hacked was luigis windows one, that only he had access to
15:06:36 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Luigi is very helpful, but I naturally wouldn't put him back into escrow position
15:06:36 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> But who else?
15:07:04 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Voldemort
15:07:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just say "luigi has the money" and not worry about who actually does
15:07:53 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Let the hacker go hack the decoy wallet
15:08:16 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> That isn't a bit odd that no one knows?
15:09:00 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Most people still have no idea how general fund is managed
15:09:23 <Lyza> If I were soley in charge of that much money I wouldn't want to dfescribe how I stored it either
15:09:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Transparency is nice, when it can be secure
15:09:47 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> luigis proposal only has support (with some suggestions for tweaks) so its time to get merging after luigi1111 creates an offline wallet. will featherwallet version 2.6.0 help him with offline tx's?
15:10:06 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Can make merge queue now
15:10:13 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> when tobtoht closes his eyes he see's QR codes (so many hours he's been starring at them)
15:10:19 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> yes, so new Feather Wallet release is out: https://monero.town/post/1349592
15:10:24 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Why feather wallet?
15:10:33 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Why feather wallet? (instead of gui or cli)
15:10:33 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> airgapped signing with animated QR code, generate additional seed entropy from dice rolls, plugin system, receive tab improvements and fixes
15:10:55 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Ah ok, I didn't see this
15:10:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Community news!
15:11:11 <Lyza> Imo it will but as much as I love tobt he's basically the sole dev on feather so like, would be good to have more eyes on the project in general if we're going to be using it like this
15:11:33 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> can't disagree with that
15:11:48 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> That is what I think. Also, "official" monero fund, not using "official" monero wallet. Feather wallet is still really cool
15:11:49 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> make a few more aliases for decentralisation
15:12:10 <Lyza> r​ecanman I can think of a fix for that :D
15:12:14 <Lyza> new official wallet wet
15:12:18 <Lyza> wen*
15:12:35 <dsc_> Would like to raise the complaint that thotbot got angry at me in private because of a picture I posted here yesterday: <dsc_> https://i.imgur.com/eocCabq.png here is a pic of feather running on a $15 computer
15:12:45 <dsc_> He does not like me mentioning Feather, even though it is indeed running Feather on a 15$ SBC - as it may confuse people in thinking this project is related to Feather desktop.
15:12:47 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Why feather?
15:12:53 <dsc_> I think thotbot needs to check his ego, it is FOSS software, I forked the project (that I once started may I remind him) and made it run on a low-powered device, and already made it clear 1 week ago I would not release under that name. 
15:12:54 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> luigis plan is to be the sole escrow holder of ccs funds for 3~ months
15:12:57 <dsc_> Publicly stating this so people know he takes himself too serious.
15:13:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> feather will support multisig UI/UX first
15:13:41 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> tobtoht: how are you generating + adding entropy from dice rolls? some library or did you write this?
15:13:59 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> i wrote this
15:14:19 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> see you in intellectual property court dsc_ !
15:14:20 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> What if he get hit by an Airbus?
15:14:49 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> could i get a link to the file?
15:14:49 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> yes, one sec
15:14:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <d​sc_> Publicly stating this so people know he takes himself too serious.
15:14:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tobtoht needs a snickers 
15:14:58 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> been a long months
15:15:49 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> Feather desktop is a work in progress thing from dsc_ (is this the bespoke OS/thing to run on a specific hardware?)
15:15:52 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Whether peoplenare confused or not.. we arent big enough to care. All newcomers are welcome
15:16:00 <Lyza> If we're doing this then I will say that I saw when dsc_ posted that picture and him saying this was feather running actually confused me because... what
15:16:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just call it "wallet of satoshi v2"
15:16:22 <dsc_> plowsof: I forked it and replaced the GUI code with something that would work for a touchscreen
15:16:26 <Lyza> I don't know, this shit seems dumb, I've only ever seen tob be super chill, and what you are doing rn dsc does not seem chill
15:16:53 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> hinto: https://github.com/feather-wallet/feather/blob/master/src/dialog/SeedDiceDialog.cpp#L105
15:16:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lyza, dsc and tobby have a personal relationship
15:17:00 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> sounds awesome dsc_
15:17:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> So its "deeper" than that
15:17:23 <Lyza> that's what I'm saying, it seems likle they have personal disagreements that aren't really relevant here
15:17:24 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Basically, we shouldnt get in the middle of this brotherly spat
15:17:33 <Lyza> so Idk why dsc is bringing it up like it matters
15:17:34 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> can we fund a ccs to force teamwork?
15:17:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> We love both of you
15:17:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Slap slap
15:17:58 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dont worry.
15:18:37 <dsc_> Lyza: I'm bringing it up because I feel wrongfully accused of doing something wrong
15:18:37 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> dsc is the original creator of the featherwallet
15:18:50 <Lyza> maybe dsc would feel better if we used wowlet?
15:18:56 <dsc_> Tob is doing great work on feather, that is out of the question
15:19:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Anyway 
15:19:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - new feather released 🥳
15:19:06 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - dsc forked feather and changrd ui for $15 sbc support 🥳
15:19:06 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - cake / monerocom polyseed support 🥳
15:19:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - mysu polyseed support 🥳
15:19:12 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> > dsc is the original creator of the featherwallet 
15:19:12 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Good to know
15:19:30 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> we co-created
15:19:37 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> If the license was fine and tobtoht forked it, then I do not see a problem
15:19:40 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Oh
15:19:56 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> procreated
15:20:22 <luigi1111> There's a joke there somewhere
15:20:23 <Lyza> <dsc_> you were "accused" in private from what you said, why make it publioc in a damn meeting
15:20:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> "I CARRIED IT FOR 9 MONTHS!"
15:20:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> "YA, BUT ITS MY SPERM, AND I NOURISHED YOU"
15:20:57 <dsc_> to let people know he is a over-protective drama queen and needs his ego checked
15:20:59 <Lyza> I just don't see the issue
15:21:22 <Lyza> you are the one starting drama though, how do you not see that
15:21:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> This years monerokon will be WILD
15:21:30 <Lyza> whole meeting has been derailed over your personal grievance
15:21:42 <Lyza> so you can "ego check" somebody, get real my dude\
15:21:51 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> dsc Vs tobby
15:21:51 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> ofrnalts vs geonic
15:21:51 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> pP vs their ceo as a special attraction
15:21:56 <luigi1111> Can we discuss what OS should be used instead. Everyone has a different idea
15:22:03 <Lyza> yes thank you luigi
15:22:07 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> just go with debian
15:22:10 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Luigi
15:22:12 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> is there a write up somewhere of Feather desktop(c)(tm)s features/goals?
15:22:17 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hyc and others told you on the thread
15:22:22 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> OS for new CCS?
15:22:23 <Lyza> Debian / Ubuntu is my vote, good mix of security and widespread use and supported by Monero
15:22:27 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> not qubes
15:22:27 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> use debian or bsd
15:22:30 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> OS for the offline laptop
15:22:51 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dont use ububtu.
15:22:58 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> what does hintos guide suggest (luigi1111 do yo ufeel confident enough to attack the laptop with a screwdriver to remove the wifi chip?)
15:23:01 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> If you use ubuntu I will laugh
15:23:05 <Lyza> we do the official builds on Ubuntu
15:23:06 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> crazy talk
15:23:07 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Don't
15:23:17 <Lyza> so using Ubuntu in some way minimizes attack surface
15:23:23 <Lyza> building and running on same OS
15:23:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lyza, we do them on 18.04
15:23:32 <Lyza> fair point
15:23:38 <Lyza> maybe we should move up
15:24:00 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> https://www.parabola.nu/ with openrc
15:24:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Probably should switch to debian for our builds
15:24:13 <m-relay> <c​howbungaman:matrix.org> Jump on folks! 11am est live. We got Abdullah giving us the update on MoneroNodo.com reporting From China where he traveled to finalize Nodo production! As always all are welcome to jump on stage to give us your weekly Monero takes:
15:24:13 <m-relay> <c​howbungaman:matrix.org> https://x.com/monerotopia/status/1733199082330497112?s=46&t=WeY1AyuT6Ir1FNBKKq_Beg
15:24:39 <Lyza> switching to debian seems more work but Idk that's above my paygrade so to speak
15:24:54 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> If migrating commands are an issue, it is pretty simple
15:24:55 <luigi1111> Someone suggested Debian minimal I think
15:25:08 <Lyza> Debian Minimal ships with no GUI but yeah
15:25:34 <luigi1111> Oh great
15:25:36 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> For the offline laptop, you need to use an operating system with very low attack surface:
15:25:36 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Alpine linux with hardened kernel or parabola gnu/linux-libre with openrc
15:25:38 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ok, luigi this is cringe
15:26:21 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Please stop lol. Ill ask plowsof, hyc or similar to send instructions
15:26:32 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> You'll need to go through a specific process for kernel hardening
15:26:32 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> This has some good stuff, but there should be more: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/guides/linux-hardening.html
15:26:38 <luigi1111> Lel they all have different ideas
15:26:48 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> hand holding out in public lol 🥶
15:27:11 <Lyza> Y'all it's an offline machine, the protection is the encryption, you can't count on it to be actually secure from a local attacker if running
15:27:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its not rocket science
15:27:30 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> full disk encryption ye,, and its never going to be updated so it doesnt matter
15:27:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> and its not a billion dollars
15:27:33 <luigi1111> Then why are the talk 
15:27:51 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> But everyday we DONT merge, the balance will be higher
15:28:01 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> You should use libreboot and anti-tampering measures in order to minimize physical attack surface
15:28:16 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> libreboot will allow for encrypted /boot and grub password
15:28:30 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> 5$ wrench , anyway
15:28:45 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> minimal de.. deihen? +1 great idea
15:28:49 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> $5 wrenches dont work on decoys
15:29:09 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> You can use multiple luks keyslots
15:29:25 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> tobtoht: (kinda offtopic at this point lol) the mapping of dice rolls <-> entropy is each die number concatted as a string, e.g `1626`, then system entropy appended on-top of that?
15:30:01 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> You could also use dm-crypt directly, but that is harder
15:30:43 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> we need luigi1111 to try out the setup first, if its viable as is written in the proposal, then go ahead with it + debian minimal , sane
15:30:49 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> hinto: yes, with a space in between rolls, and then ran through pbkdf2
15:31:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> im crying. 29more mins ofrn, just 29 more mins
15:31:28 <luigi1111> Ok next topic
15:31:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just do it
15:31:55 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> ok
15:32:17 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> full-disk-encryption is useless without /boot encrypted IMO
15:32:17 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> There should be a separate discussion on this
15:32:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> community highlights. 
15:32:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> i mentioned during the noise but polyseed wallet support has been rolled out be a few wallets and we have good support now
15:32:59 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Any good explanation of polyseed?
15:33:10 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Feather first
15:33:10 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> anonero
15:33:10 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> cake / monerocom
15:33:11 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> mysu
15:33:17 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> https://github.com/tevador/polyseed
15:33:22 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Has a good explanation in readme
15:33:49 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Did you reply to yourself 👀
15:34:14 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I did
15:34:17 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> "Due dilligence"
15:34:21 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> if/when luigis new wallet/setup is finished, the CCS will have  a working wallet, and need things on the funding required page
15:34:23 <Lyza> one thing I've been wondering about the recent donation, is if Moonstone Research or anyone would be interested in doing some research into it. There's a non-zero chance it could be connected to the transactions that have been pointed out by Moonstone's research on the hack
15:34:32 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> that was fast
15:34:33 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> if you need a device that can authenticate itself to the user: https://osresearch.net/ I think this is overkill if luigi only custodies the funds for the next ~3 months
15:34:36 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Looked it up right after asking
15:34:39 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Was first result
15:34:45 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> debian + disk encryption + transfer over official binaries
15:35:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> For that, they need to be in a merge queue
15:35:04 <Lyza> +1 tobtoht
15:35:10 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests
15:35:56 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> #1 the PG
15:35:59 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> ajs_ is perhaps going to wait a bit to see how the first initial proposals are put forward / funded
15:36:12 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Generalfund can cover them this time
15:36:19 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Has to include /boot or useless
15:36:19 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Align payload to a number and use separate device for storing LUKS header
15:36:19 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Then create another one with decoy
15:36:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> using my jet fund
15:36:48 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> No systemd
15:36:48 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> hey chowbungaman bumping monerokon funding campaign would be much appreciated https://funding.monerokon.com
15:37:16 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> L​yza: Moonstone Research is already aware of the big donation. SGP runs Moonstone.
15:37:23 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> so other than monerokon funding proposal, the rest can be dealt with immediately ish
15:37:45 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> selsta
15:37:45 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> jeffro
15:37:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dangerous freedom
15:37:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Go to funding, funded from GF
15:38:01 <Lyza> copy that rucknium
15:38:21 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> more likely merged onto the ccs and will be funded too quickly before GF can make a donation .. oops :P :P
15:38:45 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Also erc for PG
15:39:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> And plowsof. These people never stopped working
15:39:36 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> (erc may have downed tools during the social experiment)
15:40:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> I really feel like FCMP is core r&d and shouldn't have the 8 week limit
15:41:02 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Agreed
15:41:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> I also feel like its the exact tye of work that generalfund should be interested in
15:41:21 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> the luigi temp solution limit of 3 months~?
15:41:30 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah
15:42:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Backwards. Youd think general fund was there to MAKE SURE we fould complete essential work
15:42:54 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> but 1. Instead of donating, core gave conditions that can lead to ubderfunding
15:43:17 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> So, what is general fund for? Million dollars needed for "hosting"?
15:43:42 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> ~2m
15:44:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Should be 8 week, and we'll cover the shortfall
15:44:35 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> i'd say the proposal in need of community feedback/votes would be hintos https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/422 , the rest have been discussed at length in meetings afaict
15:44:58 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> So before discussing
15:45:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> lets confirm the others quickly
15:45:45 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> and recanman shared an update on his own proposal :) (an example of the community re purposing funds) .... and so to will the Core monero concepts animated videos - to be put forward for 1 XMR of funding after absorbing the savandras proposal funds
15:47:01 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> a. [Add retroactive funding proposal for FCMPs](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403)
15:47:03 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> merge
15:47:47 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> b. [dangerousfreedom - wallet work](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/409)
15:47:48 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> merge
15:48:30 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> c. [Core Monero Concepts](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/412)
15:48:42 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> do we need an update from the team as to where they're at?
15:48:52 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> xenu and vostoemisio
15:48:57 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I think it is going well
15:49:03 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I don't see a need for an update
15:49:14 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> PG > full ccs funded out of jet fund 
15:49:14 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - selsts
15:49:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - jeffro
15:49:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - erc* (maybe regular)
15:49:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - plowsof
15:49:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - dangerousfreedom
15:49:17 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - bp++ update
15:49:17 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> regular ccs merge: 
15:49:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - kaya
15:49:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - v1d
15:49:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - Observer 
15:49:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> close
15:49:20 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - Self hosted
15:49:20 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> - form nonorofit monerokon
15:49:21 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> discuss the rest
15:50:02 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> looks sane
15:50:09 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> pasting links for logs
15:50:14 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> d. [escapethe3RA Monero Observer maintenance (2023 Q4)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/414)
15:50:15 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> merge
15:50:33 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> e. [[External] Form Nonprofit Assocation for MoneroKon](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/415)
15:50:57 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> ajs_ marked this as not ready for merge anyway as they wanna see how things turn out for the first proposal
15:51:45 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> and would require changes to the ccs backend (if external is required)
15:51:57 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> f. [erc: ccs for getmonero and weblate](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/416)
15:52:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Merge
15:52:34 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I think there was an issue with this
15:52:35 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> there is some back story to moneroguides downvote on this proposal, who had some redesign / shuffling choices for getmonero that he felt was ignored
15:52:35 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I forgot
15:53:01 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Erc isnt a 1 man horse
15:53:09 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> I forgot to say that you can submit yourself as MAGIC Monero Fund committee member or as a voter for the committee: https://github.com/MAGICGrants/Monero-Fund-Elections . Nominations close on December 31st.
15:53:30 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> erc has my +1 for merge
15:53:32 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hinto, plowsof and hardenedsteel help out over there. But could use more eyes
15:53:43 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Over there = monero-site
15:53:57 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> You don't have to KYC to be a candidate for the committee nor a voter.
15:53:58 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> s/eyes/hands and eyes
15:54:08 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> g. [Monero Selfhosted View-only Web Wallet (with received transaction Telegram/Email/SMS/Discord/Webhook alerts)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/417)
15:54:12 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> lol^
15:54:14 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> That is just to receive compensation I think
15:54:30 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Close
15:54:43 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Close
15:54:46 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> That is just to receive compensation I think (MAGIC monero fund committee)
15:55:41 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> moving through them quickly, if anyone wants to vote on an earlier one, please do so
15:55:47 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> h. [CCS Coordinator](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/418)
15:56:04 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> merge
15:56:11 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Merge
15:56:14 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Merge
15:57:14 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> thnx ❤️
15:57:28 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> i. [v1docq47 - monerotopia 2023 (part 2) and monerokon 2023 voiceovers and working on xmr.ru](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/420)
15:57:42 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Merge
15:57:52 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> merge
15:57:55 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> merge, long history , and quick funding
15:58:16 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> j. [jeffro256 full-time dev 2023Q4](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/421)
15:58:26 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> merge
15:58:29 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> merge
15:58:32 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Merge
15:58:34 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> merge
15:58:45 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> merge
15:58:51 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> merge
15:59:05 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> k. [hinto-janai - full-time work on Cuprate (3 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/422)
15:59:13 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> needs discussion
16:00:07 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> which will be possible now that the ccs has survived , between now and the next meeting(s)
16:00:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think we need -dev to comment (unbiased)
16:00:55 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> on the hour
16:00:57 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> l. [selsta part-time monero development (3 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/423)
16:00:59 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cuprate docs alone are worth money
16:01:05 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> merge
16:01:10 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> merge selsta
16:01:13 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> merge
16:01:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Merge
16:01:18 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> merge
16:02:02 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> +1
16:02:43 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> boog900:  wink wink
16:03:23 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> so we need to somehow get the cuprate proposal to benefit monero core and/or seraphis to make it more appealing
16:03:40 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> it would spread limited resources unnecessarily
16:03:58 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> During reimplementations of pruning, cuprate found and documented a bug
16:04:22 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> it's not really a bug more of a typo ...
16:04:40 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> one thing is like to ensure with funding cuprate, is that issues and fixes are relayed to minero-project
16:04:44 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> indefinite long term maintenance
16:05:55 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> What if they were able to do seraphis before us?
16:06:25 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> merge for selsta
16:07:28 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> i think i can say thanks to all for attending the meeting here
16:07:39 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> and continue discussions
16:07:49 <msvb-lab> Dankon everyone for the good meeting.
16:08:06 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> I do understand this and my next proposal will be to work on Cuprates p2p code and document Moneros p2p protocol but with a database im unsure what we can document ... synthetic has already documented monerods schema
16:08:13 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> msvb-lab do events have a meeting today?
16:08:25 <msvb-lab> Yes, in one hour on #monero-events.
16:08:30 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> uh we forgot the biggest news
16:08:40 <msvb-lab> Our new moderator Comradeblin is going to run the meeting.
16:08:42 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> We had a small donation to generalfund
16:09:02 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> oh thanks msvb-lab comradeblin
16:09:13 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Lol
16:10:00 <plowsof> a small donation hm let me check
16:10:13 <plowsof> 21 hours ago it received 💝 +0.00001 #xmr 💝 $0.00 🐋 🚨 
16:10:50 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> (my matrix screen filled with hearts because of that)
16:10:50 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Moonstone/sgp is trying for something?
16:10:55 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Mine did as well
16:11:00 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> XD
16:11:39 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> 💝 +2696.73 #xmr 💝 $464889.28 😉
16:11:41 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> - 💝 +2696.73 #xmr 💝 $464889.28 😉 [nitter](https://nitter.net/WatchFund/status/1732391070216908886) / [X](https://twitter.com/WatchFund/status/1732391070216908886)
16:11:50 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> so many hearts
16:11:57 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> not again
16:12:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> #wereback
16:12:13 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> this is an attack on slow machines lol
16:12:23 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> laptop crashing
16:12:24 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> haha
16:12:31 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Why are you running something as heavy as element on a slow machine?
16:12:36 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Use a simpler one
16:12:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Good meeting.
16:12:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> thanks everyone
16:12:48 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Goodbye, thank you
16:15:42 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> missed an events summary from msvb-lab but i assume this will happen at the events meeting
16:16:57 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Pretty much just looking at forming association and getting ready to sell tickets
16:17:03 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> i think we can pencil a meeting in 2 weeks (23rd?)
16:17:06 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> The channel right now has a summary of TODOs
16:18:19 <msvb-lab> It's fine plowsof, as I only wanted to give the events summary after you added the request in the agenda.
16:18:32 <plowsof> ah ok
16:19:34 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> dsc_ dare i ask for a roadmap of feather desktop?
16:20:24 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> boog900: re: db documentation - the code/design itself
16:20:58 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> try replacing any subsystem in `monerod` - "just read all the code"
16:21:42 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> i'll be making this thing such that i can die in 3 months and someone can come along and read easy english on how to pickup exactly where i left off
16:32:21 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> yes but my point was that there isn't a lot we can do to benefit monero core right now so although we can (and will) document how Cuprate is doing things, which when Cuprate is up and running will help maintainers we can't really document how monerod is doing the database without going out our way to do more work which will `spread limited resources unnecessarily`.
16:32:22 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> With the p2p and consensus code I already have to look at how monerod is doing things.
16:33:18 <m-relay> <e​rc:cryptoriot.org> ah yeah, the guy who wanted me to redesign the entire website and that disappeared when i asked them to provide more details. A solid contributor whose opinion is very important, clearly.
16:34:16 <m-relay> <e​rc:cryptoriot.org> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/1900
16:36:14 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> IMO cuprate will help (and already has helped) core-monero anyway so it shouldn't matter that this proposal doesn't have a direct benefit, it allows more work which will have a direct benefit
16:45:57 <m-relay> <c​omradeblin:matrix.org> plowsof: sorry i dint reply. Yes meetinf in 15mins
16:46:06 <m-relay> <c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Meeting*
16:47:49 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> maybe someday cuprate will stop being... "the alternative", so it's a (in hindsight) direct benefit :)
16:48:22 <m-relay> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> i worry for the future poor soul who will read my code not knowing what the hell is going on
16:59:09 <dsc_> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> dsc_ dare i ask for a roadmap of feather desktop? <== The device doesnt have a name yet. Ill post a devlog on monero.town, to follow progress for those interested
17:00:16 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> We will have docs so it should be easier to understand than monerod :)
17:01:13 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Boog, are you guys doing seraphis in parallel
17:01:26 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or rather, would it be a good idea to?
17:01:57 <m-relay> <s​gp:magicgrants.org> Hey everyone, PLEASE do this! Thank you!
17:02:00 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> "cuprate releases the First testnet daemon for seraphis"
17:04:48 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> AFAIK some important things are still in discussion? so I would say now is not the right time for us to start this, monero-serai would need to be updated first
17:07:59 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Seraphis, i think, should be your focus (unless were _not_ doing seraphis, it doesnt make sense to implement an EOL protocol)
17:09:57 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Good point
17:10:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> and as far as in discussion - this is your chance to help decide how things are going to be implemented, and to do it first
17:10:36 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> cuprate has to implement all the EOL protocols because it has to sync from genesis.
17:11:03 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Most of Seraphis code work is in the wallet, not the daemon AFAIK.
17:11:50 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> But who's working on thr daemon..
17:12:31 <plowsof> no daemon left behind
17:13:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> And yeah, i dont mean "you can skip the whole blockchain and just do seraphis" i obviously meant "dont recreate stuff we arent going to be using down the road"
17:13:52 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Like, if wallet 3 is replacing wallet 2, dont bother rewriting wallet 2. Just go straight to wallet 3
17:14:37 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I'll send a voter application, as I cannot commit to being a committee member this year.
17:14:37 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I'm unable to access the questions because it is on google forms (seriously?)
17:14:38 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Could someone send a screenshot of them? Thanks
17:14:45 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I'll send a voter application, as I cannot commit to being a committee member this year.
17:14:45 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I'm unable to access the questions because they are on google forms (seriously?)
17:14:46 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Could someone send a screenshot of them? Thanks
17:16:39 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Google forms is not my fault. The committee doesn't run its own elections to avoid conflicts of interest 😅 . (I knew you weren't blaming me, recanman.)
17:17:07 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> The committee uses Cryptpad internally
17:17:08 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Good to know. Who runs the elections?
17:17:37 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> sgp is one of the people who runs the election. It's the board:
17:18:17 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> https://magicgrants.org/about/
17:18:34 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Oh, great. Thanks
17:20:40 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> > Like, if wallet 3 is replacing wallet 2, dont bother rewriting wallet 2. Just go straight to wallet 3
17:20:40 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> Daemon code and wallet code is different the code I write to handle txs now will still be used to handle old txs after the Seraphis hf and it may still be needed if we need to do 
17:20:41 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> "transition" txs to turn "old" outputs into seraphis ones
17:20:41 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> > and as far as in discussion - this is your chance to help decide how things are going to be implemented, and to do it first
17:20:42 <m-relay> <b​oog900:monero.social> I think that would be too much for me at the moment
17:22:51 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I would still like a screenshot/copypaste of the questions if I was unclear. Thanks
17:57:44 <m-relay> <d​adajo:monero.social> Me too!
19:38:23 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> 16.04