02:42:19 The MAGIC Grants board is hosting a live Q&A in the Monero Telegram group this Thursday at 1p ET to discuss the MAGIC Monero Fund and the upcoming election. We hope to see you there! 02:47:00 election? we have elections 02:47:01 can I vote? 02:47:07 I vote for ofrn 02:47:20 <123bob123:matrix.org> Yest 02:47:22 ofrnxmr: for 2024 02:47:22 <123bob123:matrix.org> Jobs and growth 02:52:00 but I don't want a job 02:52:14 wut u tryin 2 do? 02:57:39 You could vote for him if he was running! 03:02:14 For president 03:02:31 Write in ballot 03:05:40 <123bob123:matrix.org> What are promising but wont deliver 03:05:49 <123bob123:matrix.org> Monero to $1mill? 03:06:00 <123bob123:matrix.org> What are you promising but wont deliver 03:14:32

Voter applications and committee candidate announcements are now available for the MAGIC Monero Fund committee election in January 2024 , https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/18bev7v/voter_applications_and_committee_candidate/ 03:46:48 > What are you promising but wont deliver 03:46:48 Quiet ofrnxmr 04:21:16 Your buddy midi is working on that one 😉 04:56:13 Midi is voting for me? 04:57:27 For a perma-ban, yes, it seems so. 05:05:10 Getmonero.org SSL cert has expired 05:08:42 <123bob123:matrix.org> nooooooooooooooooooo 05:09:57 And some dude are paid to maintain the website, right? 05:10:18 what next then? 05:10:20 who's maintaining the site? 05:10:36 Some dude 😆 05:11:29 <123bob123:matrix.org> On holidays bbs 05:12:22 Did the jet fund go too? 05:12:31 <123bob123:matrix.org> hmm 05:12:52 <123bob123:matrix.org> rug has been officially pulled 05:13:30 Carpet, not rug. 05:13:42 <123bob123:matrix.org> red carpet ? 05:13:57 Carpetbagger. 05:14:07 <123bob123:matrix.org> was stuck in jet door 05:14:15 <123bob123:matrix.org> so it took it too 05:17:51 Damn, it's slow `Synced 4504 blocks in 33.9 minutes (2.216 blocks per second)` 05:19:57 someone already opened issue on github 07:22:44 Previously we depended on fluffypony to sift through his spam email folder for the getmonero cert expiry emails 07:23:24 Who do we blame now then :( 07:25:53 how about moving into the modern era - set up with letsencrypt or something similar so it refreshes automatically? 07:35:55 The last time it happened.. didnt one domain still have valid certs selsta? (With/without www?) . Inge after the previous expiry and the uproar this caused it should definitely be set up to auto renew (unless there is some blocker im not aware of). 07:44:57 <123bob123:matrix.org> dunno not hard tho 07:50:27 2 years ago is when i remember it happening https://www.reddit.com/r/xmrtrader/comments/rj2pf7/comment/hp1nywm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 07:52:00 coincidentally, 18th december 07:57:40 <123bob123:matrix.org> sus 07:57:43 reported by cryptogrampy and fixed quickly https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-site/20211218#c58594 08:46:23 Inge: You really don't want such an automatism running on a server as sensitive as that. Any ol' automatic task reaching out to the Internet at large to get new certs and installing them? What can possibly go wrong :) 08:50:39 <123bob123:matrix.org> nothing 10:37:32 plowsof the archivooor! 10:39:19 <123bob123:matrix.org> Plowsof.archive 10:45:43 plowsof: https://web.getmonero.org works, https://www.getmonero.org does not 10:46:42 www. is the CDN, web. is the server itself 10:48:25 <123bob123:matrix.org> Blame the fluffy? 12:25:58 m-relay: Fair point. You could however still set it up so that some other boxen could refresh the certs, and if you wish, introduce a manual verification step before the sensitive server picks them up. Along with a notification to someone ... instead of having certs that expire 13:45:30 It is cdn 13:45:55 But isn’t he supposed to be gone away ? Or did he just pull the plug lol 13:47:06 Paradise for sin and Lust 13:47:06 https://t.afago.pro/GXPSFZ 14:01:06 Nah and nah 14:01:30 But when in doubt, blame plowsof 16:23:28 Hey Europeans! You can now buy up to 1000 Euro worth of XMR and other crypto with no KYC using bank/wire transfer in the new Cake Wallet and MoneroCom wallet! 16:53:28 nice 17:20:50 <4rkal:monero.social> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/s/ULuG0dDFEp 17:21:08 <4rkal:monero.social> Slight issue lmao 17:21:59 <4rkal:monero.social> SSL cert for www.getmonero.org has expired 17:25:08 know issue and is currently being dealt with 18:54:53 Henlo 18:56:16 I have a business that accepts monero, are there any places where I could advertise it? 19:07:24 <123bob123:matrix.org> NO WAY!!! 19:17:35 we should put up a PSA on getmonero.org blog 19:19:11 <123bob123:matrix.org> Ssl incident 19:19:17 <123bob123:matrix.org> Oops 19:20:19 <123bob123:matrix.org> He tripped over the plug 20:26:58 I didnt see that there was an update to rhe forensics investigation into the ccs wallet, but 123bob123 dod and shared the update in -dev 20:27:38 What would be of us without Bob! 20:27:40 Fwd: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/923 20:27:56 Did* bob* 20:28:53 Stnby reported that thenccs' gitlab instance needed to be updated, which was done today 20:42:05 https://monerica.com/submit 20:43:06 https://cryptwerk.com/publish/ 20:48:58 <123bob123:matrix.org> Community sys admin ftw 20:57:00 good work community 21:11:08 Many thanks 21:15:04 Is there any other currency like monero? 21:15:15 Or is it one of a kind 21:15:15 This stuff is amazing 21:21:27 <123bob123:matrix.org> We are GOAT 22:39:40 when is the monero halving 22:42:39 Good question 22:43:57 The real question is: has there ever been a monero halving? 22:44:07 Answer: no 22:44:20 Has there ever been a monero doubling? 22:44:24 Answer: yes! 22:44:55 My plan for next year (could not implemented because I just thought of it). I will gift my nephews and god-sons and god-daughters, at lest those that are 18 or older, Monero. A paper with all the seed words, and a couple URLs (maybe QR for those URLs) that lead to explanations of what is Monero and how to use it. Stimulate its use and broadening the user base. 22:54:39 My experience with gifting people cryptocurrency is that they either lose it, delete it, forget the password, or don't write down their seed and then change phones/laptops. 22:57:25 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/meDthAxtNQjJIwvAPOkBLuNJ 22:57:40 there is a limit supply of XMR so how does this thing say its 0.6XMR forever 22:59:45 the supply is limited to whatever the current supply is plus 0.6xmr every 2 minutes from current 23:00:13 So XMR does not have a hard cap supply? 23:00:59 Nope 23:01:12 And that's what will save it from implosion 10-20 years from now 23:01:16 no which is a good thing because people lose stuff :) 23:01:42 Unlike BTC, which will die in flames (unless they hardfork to add a tail emission like Monero has) 23:01:43 and there will be no need for a fee market 23:02:14 makes sense. But I think BTC will be functioning on transaction fees 23:02:21 It won't. I did the math 23:02:33 what does the math say 23:02:45 would it be too expensive per transaction? 23:02:56 I thought of using btc yesterday but didn't because of the fees lol 23:03:13 same I sold 100% of my btc when I saw the fees 23:03:19 a bank wire would have been cheaper 23:03:29 currently XMR is my only crypto + seed sales in shitcoin I will sell when they pump 23:03:39 tldr: unless people are willing to pay 50 $/tx in fees on average and they make sure that all btc blocks are full, the mining incentive for btc will drop below the current value 23:04:17 I wouldnt be suprised if BTC maxis run their miners for free or something 23:04:20 is it expensive? 23:04:48 El Salvador probably will keep their miners running if they have any since its legal tender over there 23:05:30 Bitcoin pays its mining network ~600 $/second right now. Once the base reward becomes too small (around epoch 10-15), most of that will have to come from tx fees 23:06:03 That's around 19 billion dollars, per year 23:06:34 So unless you're Elon Musk looking for the next brilliant investment, you can't afford to run the entire Bitcoin network out of your own pocket 23:06:48 how many transactions are done per 600$? 23:07:04 (And even if you were: would you really *trust* a network that's in the pocket of a single entity?) 23:07:56 50 $/tx would have to be the average fee for a small tx (2-input 2-output) 23:08:02 But but 23:08:02 they also want price to go up 23:08:16 so if your tx is twice as big (in bytes), you'd have to pay 100$ 23:08:30 Bitcoin does 7 transaction per second and the network pays 600$ per second to miners? 23:08:51 miners are paid 600$ for 7 transactions? 23:08:51 6.25btc/10min 23:09:01 + tx fees 23:09:08 orion_midast right now, yes 23:09:09 After halvinf, they get 3.125 btc 23:09:11 + tx fees 23:09:13 well, no 23:09:17 Unless the blocks are full 23:09:19 thats fucking wild. 23:09:39 do we have any stat showing correlation between how much fees per transaction need to be paid as bitcoin halving happens? 23:09:47 Btc does a max of ~600k tx/day 23:09:50 do users pay more in fees each halving? 23:09:53 That is very possible. I plan to include info on how to use it. And if they are so careless. I will have the seed for and check in some months. I really hope young people will have some drive. 23:09:57 Thats not enough for a major city 23:10:12 > do users pay more in fees each halving? 23:10:12 Miners have to get paid. 23:10:35 Monero deserves to be the #1 crypto in the market, not Bitcoin. I'll never understand how it is that Monero is not #1 23:10:39 If youre a miner, and making 300k/mth, are you going to accept a 150k decrease? 23:10:56 people just want to please regulators 23:11:05 people lost the vision they are just here for money now 23:11:25 If the BTC price doubles then there is no decrase no? 23:11:25 If the BTC price doubles then there is no decrease no? 23:11:29 No 23:11:37 If it doubled, its worse 23:11:46 Price doubles, miner profit increases 23:12:02 Then more people stsrt mining OR minibg operations expand 23:12:14 economics 101 23:12:20 Increasing network difficulty, until it balances out 23:12:44 After halving, the money has to come from somwhere 23:12:51 Miners don't set the tx fee. User demand sets the tx fee. If demand is high, the fee will be high. It's an auction for block space. There is no direct relationship between tx fee and the block reward subsidy. 23:12:56 So we can estimate BTC transaction to be 80$ per transaction. Unless lightning network or whatever its called steps up 23:13:05 And l.. eventually the halving becomes 0 23:13:06 The money doesn't have to come from anywhere. The money can just decrease 23:13:14 Miners have to earn an incone 23:13:24 And that income has to come from tx fees 23:13:47 Miners can just drop out. Then the difficulty adjustment algorithm reduces the difficulty, like you said. 23:14:01 then mining will cost less 23:14:04 Lightning cannot compensate for this. No layer 2 can help solve this problem. It's a layer 1 problem 23:14:11 hence the fee will drop in price 23:14:22 true that 23:14:22 the direct relationship is that with no block reward, the money has to come from somewhere 23:14:31 If layer 1 fails, all layers above it die with it 23:14:32 If the amount of honest hashpower gets too low because the total block reward is low, BTC can be vulnerable to a 51% attack by malicious miners. 23:14:59 bcurrently I saw stuff about how 2 pools control 50% of BTC hash power 23:15:23 No 23:15:32 90% of hashpowrr is owned by 0.1% of miners 23:15:39 BTC without tail emission is pick your poison: Either fees are too high for average humans or the block reward is too low and the network is insecure. 23:15:46 Both outcomes are bad. 23:15:56 ^ and if we assume that the average tx fee will drop to 10 $/tx, that means that the future nethash will be 5x smaller than it is today 23:16:07 we need to do a simulation see how it would go 23:16:13 I dont want to wait 10 years to see 23:16:35 What do you mean by "simulation"? 23:16:38 How do BTC maxis rationalize this though 23:16:43 And keep in mind that that's assuming that *the blocks are always full*. If the L1 usage drops to the point where blocks aren't full, then the average tx fee will have to become even higher 23:16:47 they probably have their own thoughts about it 23:17:02 like some sort of run test on what would happen 23:17:44 Not much to simulate, it's just math 23:18:05 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/izcdvtSZhzZczwiGYhRMdRzJ 23:18:25 https://nitter.net/BawdyAnarchist_/status/1736377958162739513 23:18:26 Rucknium: 23:18:27 A few bitcoiners do support a bitcoin tail emission. Peter Todd suggests a "tax" on spending old bitcoin that would pay for mining security. 23:18:49 have you seen that? 23:18:51 Aw hell, axis labels don't show up with a dark background 23:19:42 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/TIXmbKcCXqMuFDsbinjIgumc 23:19:54 An NBER paper 👀 23:21:06 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/NBAkVEBQgVbGtGSVykLqIWSE 23:21:27 orion_midast: Some math in here: Budish, E. (2022). "The economic limits of bitcoin and anonymous, decentralized trust on the blockchain. " https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=101 23:21:40 And this ^ is what would *need* to happen to btc's mcap in order to maintain the current security budget. Necessary condition 23:21:55 Endor 23:21:59 Screenshot 23:22:37 ofrnxmr: Yes, I saw that paper a while ago, but I just skimmed it for the tx details, not the mining info. I may look closer. 23:25:22 not sure what help needed 23:26:03 I was saying that you are (were?) active on site 23:26:12 There's an old paper on Lightning Network centralization with new updated data: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308596123002070 23:26:18 "Alarmingly, over the past two years, the network’s centrality has surged, with the inequality, as gauged by the Gini index, rising by over 15 uptick of approximately 5 in. This research not only uncovers critical insights into the Lightning Network’s structural dynamics but also raises the question about strategies and policies that ensure its sustained decentralization in th 23:26:18 e face of evolving challenges such as security vulnerabilities, potential monopolistic tendencies, liquidity bottlenecks, the risk of transaction censorship and many more." 23:26:43 does that mean 0.1% of miners can fuck up the chain? 23:27:08 yep, even less than that 23:27:10 oh yes i can help. 23:27:31 Theoretically, they could perform, a 51% attack. But they would have to coordinate to do that. 23:41:38 like this tweet so we can get Monero on Tangem hardware wallet, they have a team that checks their socials for cryptos most wanted and add them depending on demand: https://twitter.com/Goatskey/status/1736942210652717561 23:48:26 I see a lot shilling scams. 23:48:26 wtf is "Conste11ation" and "moonbeam", HBAR, RXD 😂 23:48:46 * And many more 23:48:50 or wtf is shibarum 23:48:58 Also lol 23:48:59 these dog coins are getting out of hand 23:49:10 indeed 23:49:19 Ive been harassing them on discord, twitter and customer support to add xmr 23:49:27 we gotta step up 23:50:30 Their hardware wallet is cheaper than both ledger and trezor + they are open source and use a different technology. its super interesting. I am buying one as soon as they add monero 23:54:47 orion_midast: That hardware wallet does not have a screen. You cannot confirm visually that you are signing the tx you intended. 23:55:13 its on your phone 23:55:13 Plus, the computation power of it looks low. Maybe it couldn't sign a Monero tx. 23:55:28 Your phone can be compromised. 23:55:45 it has a chip inside the card similar to credit card chips, the chip is used to confirm transaction and the phone cant sign anything as long as the card isnt scanned for transaction 23:55:46 So your phone gets compromised => Your hardware wallet becomes pointless 23:56:22