01:35:30 I sold my old Monero that I had bought from Kraken. 01:35:30 It’s better to end the paper trail but the downside is they know you bought cryptocurrency at one point. 01:35:31 Learn how to do KYC-Free, & teach your friends, & family. 01:51:10 If you sell your your USDT or BTC from a big Crypto Exchange you got it from to get XMR in LocalM, will that be a good enough to tumble it? 02:06:04 KYCNot . ME 02:06:04 https://kycnot.me/ 02:06:05 Get Monero Exchanges lists 02:06:05 https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/ 02:10:48 Also Cryptocurrency ATMs whose only KYC requirement is a phone number which you can use a burner phone. 02:12:35 Do VOIPs work? 02:17:17 https://bisq.network/ looks pretty interesting, has anybody used it much before? 04:28:57 "If you sell your your USDT or BTC from a big Crypto Exchange you got it from to get XMR in LocalM, will that be a good enough to tumble it?" Depends who you sell it to 04:29:42 If you sell transparent coins with a history to anyone, its up to the buyer if they want to look into your behavior 04:30:42 Same goes for the xmr you receive. If its from a bad actor, they'll tie to to your btc/usdt that you gave them 05:49:14 Ok I see, I understand a little better now, what would you recommend to mitigate that? 05:53:32 Is there a good way to offramp your USDT or BTC from one of the big exchanges? Maybe to another wallet or exchange platform then use them to buy XMR like LocalM or something? 05:53:35 Use a dex to swap out of xmr and back into new xmr 05:54:17 Oh ok, which dex is good for this? Uniswap? 05:54:38 Basicswapdex, but its buggy :P 05:55:00 Not for usdt, but for btc 05:55:18 Ok, I saved them just now in bookmarks 05:55:34 What would you recommend for USDT? 05:55:57 https://github.com/nahuhh/basicswap-bash/releases/latest << if youre using ubuntu/debian 05:56:49 Ahh, I'm not currently, but could you run this in a VM or container do you know? 05:57:04 They have a windows installer that should work 05:57:20 And yeah, i run the bash ^ version in a debian 12 vm 05:58:44 Oh nice 05:58:52 I'm looking for that WIN installer too aswell 05:59:04 is it the "wget" command one on that github link you sent me? 06:01:29 Oh I see, its on the BasicSwapDEx website for the WIN installer. You were right about it being buggy, there webpage wouldn't open first couple times I tried 06:03:18 This is what im looking for if I want WIN too right https://github.com/gerlofvanek/basicswap-installation-GUI 06:04:42 <123bob123:matrix.org> shill () 06:07:56 Oh is that a shill website? 06:08:13 <123bob123:matrix.org> no ofrn 06:08:31 <123bob123:matrix.org> :) 06:12:10 oh ok 06:50:35 Yeah "This is what im looking for if I want WIN too right https://github.com/gerlofvanek/basicswap-installation-GUI" 07:05:45 <123bob123:matrix.org> they need to simplify installs 07:06:07 Ok nice, but is there one for USDT or does that DEX do USDT? 07:54:01 ofrnxmr I'm curious. What dependencies makes it Ubuntu/Debian specific? 12:00:18 <0xfffc:matrix.org> anyway knows a way to get huge amount of XMR in testnet? faucet is to slow for my test (one 1 xmr). I need order 100s in my testnet wallet to test soemthing. 12:01:14 Do you need the existing testnet, or can you run one yourself with just one/a few nodes? 12:01:42 If the latter, you could just change the block reward and give yourself as much as you want 12:01:57 <0xfffc:matrix.org> existing testnet. I ran on my private testnet but couldn't replicate. 12:02:33 <0xfffc:matrix.org> (couldn't replicate the thing I want to debug) 12:02:33 (Also, aren't 12 decimal places enough? Or is it due to the tx amount vs fee ratio) 12:02:50 <0xfffc:matrix.org> amount. 12:03:19 I have like 6k testnet XMR in my wallet, but I don't have access to it until evening 12:05:35 Thanks, will dm you. 13:10:14 hinto-janai full-time work on Cuprate (3 months) is now fully funded! https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/hinto-2023-nov.html @luigi1111 14:20:27 A full house. Congrats all! 14:20:45 https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/ 15:29:29 0xFFFC: Okay, synced up. How much and where to? 15:49:56 xFFFC0000: ^^ 15:54:57 Yawn, I'm of to bed.. Later.. 16:15:11 Trasher 1 sec 16:22:05 <0xfffc:matrix.org> TrasherDK: DMed you the address. Thanks. 17:47:25 https://monerofund.org/projects/Q1Q2_2024_dev_vtnerd 17:51:22 rbrunner: funding outside the CCS always takes longer 17:52:48 3 reasons why you should not donate to monerofund atm 17:53:24 1) 2024 still not view keys, 0 transparency 17:53:47 Not true: https://monerofund.org/faq 17:54:01 Main address: 4458gM5iAPuJBeVf5u9DwS4Hj82qNPzAcgD7wF9VrRCRb4M635UtmZNPPDonqXkBsb2RmKjUSRLXtJNZCjZgnNFKKW3SxBz 17:54:02 Secret view key: 2595ab540844231f66c2266f12b174461f81c09b39010dc42697a6a58a7d680c 17:54:02 Restore height: 2724728 17:54:52 It took about 6 weeks to raise a similar amount for ETH<>XMR atomic swaps through MAGIC IIRC 17:55:08 3 reason why you should donate; v. t, nerd 17:55:19 2) no discussion with rest of the community 17:55:37 let me review those keys, wow 17:56:09 Huh? vtnerd is a regular of the weekly MRL / dev meeting and reports there what they work on 17:56:45 kowalabearhugs- send donation requests to some Monero-supporting businesses last week. I hope some are discussing internally whether to donate. 17:57:08 Plenty of chances to complain in that meeting if somebody things what they do has no worth or is controversial 17:57:14 *thinks 17:57:18 ruckunium, why when people submit proposal we can't see it? 17:57:19 are you afraid of discussion before approval or what? 17:58:07 vtnerd is an important dev, hope we can get it funded soon 17:58:27 I didn't see magic vtnerd proposal here, that it was talked about or something 17:59:19 So your gripe is it wasn't discussed *before* being put up for donations? And that is "being afraid of discussion"? 17:59:56 vtnerd is great, no doubt in that, love his work 18:01:10 I will ask vtnerd to get feedback on his proposed work in this channel next time before MAGIC approval, assuming there is a next time. 18:02:16 but we will not see proposal on submit anytime soon? 18:04:22 even if lws didnt exist , monero project still needs the veteran vtnerd 18:05:24 In the future we can post them to GitHub as they arrive (will have to check with the 4 other committee members, but should be no problem). There is also an option for proposal submitters to submit directly through a GitHub issue. 18:05:49 i think it's just some of the regular CCS donator don't look at other places like magic, so they are not aware of it and it takes longer to get funded.. or there are other reasons why some of the donators prefer the CCS that I'm not aware of 18:06:17 how many clicks does the whale have to perform to see a donation address on the CCS vs MAGIC 18:07:46 If you are in Feather Wallet, now just one. But if you are on the website, you go through BTCPay server. I guess we could put the static XMR address as a QR code on proposal pages, too. 18:07:55 Yeah, the community feedback is useful. Cryptogrampy forced me to do subaddressses, which is now in lws 18:08:36 (a self-hosted BTCPay server) 18:08:44 Rucknium: the latter might be useful for nojs users, assuming there are some 18:09:10 im not a UX expert but i think it would be beneficial to have the static xmr/btc addresses viewable behind 1 click - people might be scared away with all the (optional) boxes 18:09:58 nobody reads the faq ofcourse so they probably think you have to kyc to donate 18:10:47 Thanks for the suggestion. I am tired of deving the website, but what must be done must be done. 18:11:26 instead of donating an amount of xmr you specify an amount of $ and are then given the xmr amount with all 12 places to the right of the decimal used 0_0 18:11:34 come to monero as a microeconomist statistician, leave a full stack web developer who knows his way around some c++ ? 18:12:41 nobody uses those last 4 digits 18:13:13 except that one guy who wanted to encode letters in amounts 18:13:30 for their monero tx messenger lol 18:13:50 Some of the design choices are leftover from OpenSats. We forked the website from them. 19:22:51 fwiw, this is the entire reason why the community-elected committee has been set up. So that they are able to make quick decisions where necessary, and researchers/devs don't need to be told to wait until after X many weeks of community meetings 19:23:14 the committee members can impose any additional requirements they choose, but they get to set the main scope of the process 19:23:58 the term of 2 years is also purposeful; it's to allow for a little more discretion than might otherwise be available in a slow community governance process 19:25:40 not _requiring_ a community discussion in advance is a _purposeful feature_. But, if the committee feels there is something worth discussing, then they can choose to open that discussion if they want 19:26:45 eg: was community discussion on vtnerd's proposal really a requirement in this case? Did the committee act reasonably by deciding this bureaucracy set could be skipped for a main dev contributor of so many years? 19:29:06 I do hope CCS donors become more aware of monerofund.org, since the donation process in XMR is quite similar. It's more similar than different 19:33:15 There's another huge benefit. Unlike the CCS which isn't run by an elected group (though luigi listens to feedback ofc), MAGIC Monero Fund committee members are _held responsible_ for their actions, since they can be voted out by community vote. A previous committee member was held responsible for not showing up to several months of meetings in a row, for example. This has prevent 19:33:15 ed the committee from "going silent" from inactivity 19:35:12 A lot of people here have decided not to apply to vote in the committee election. Please do this for next election, so that you have a _direct say_ in how the committee operates! There's not a big point complaining that the committee isn't listening to your feedback if you aren't even registered to vote; please do this! :) 19:36:09 FWIW, 10.6 of the 13.3 XMR to vtnerd's fundraiser has come in through the static address shown to Feather wallet users instead of addresses through the website. You can check this with the view key I posted earlier. 19:37:00 "community discussion on vtnerd's proposal really a requirement in this case? Did the committee act reasonably by deciding this bureaucracy set could be skipped for a main dev contributor of so many years?" 19:37:03 I think that's pretty cool. Feather Wallet is now the official wallet of MAGIC (/s, but thank you dsc + rucknium + donors) 19:37:10 Nice when people speak for others 19:37:21 Maybe vtnerd wanted feedback 19:37:44 Oh my, now things get productive. 19:37:52 tobtoht wrote the integration on the Feather wallet side AFAIK. 19:38:02 " Yeah, the community feedback is useful. Cryptogrampy forced me to do subaddressses, which is now in lws" 19:38:04 I'm not trying to speak for vtnerd, but it's easier to ask a specific committee for feedback than "the open community across several months of meetings" fwiw 19:38:13 my bad, you're right 19:38:52 I'm not saying anything about a donor asking for feedback 19:39:02 s/donor/grant recipient 19:39:09 Rip grampy 😥 19:39:25 <123bob123:matrix.org> I think have 4 people as decision makers might hider adoption from community funding. With ccs any rando can have there say 19:39:31 <123bob123:matrix.org> Having* 19:39:47 A grant recipient should always be able to ask for feedback from anyone; nothing in the application says people can't ask for feedback from others 19:39:49 <123bob123:matrix.org> Too early… 19:39:58 <123bob123:matrix.org> 😴 19:40:29 Yes, I've come to appreciate the ccs process a bit. I'm sort of in limbo now, as I cant realistically apply for a CCS for weeks it looks like. Hopefully it will get resolved 19:42:29 <123bob123:matrix.org> Non compete? 19:43:06 <123bob123:matrix.org> Just submit who cares 19:43:29 <123bob123:matrix.org> People will either say yes or no 19:43:35 <123bob123:matrix.org> Monero democracy 19:44:00 Theres no specific clause afaik, but it seems inappropriate to have two fund raisers for the same purpose. 19:48:05 <123bob123:matrix.org> Like having two jobs? 19:48:31 Yeah, basically. 19:48:53 <123bob123:matrix.org> Like most people 19:50:22 I'll give it some more time, before discussing options with the magic board and sgp. Maybe they'll roll the collected funds into a new CCS 19:50:53 <123bob123:matrix.org> Or just submit and disclose other donation option? 19:51:30 vtnerd: is the main downside of MAGIC in your view that donations appear to come in slower than you think they would come through with the CCS, or is there something else? 19:51:40 <123bob123:matrix.org> Its like kon closing btc pay for donation to operation budget. Why close just leave open 19:52:29 That, and I think the community hits me a bit more with features I should implement. But it's only happened once, the other proposals no one really said much either 19:52:45 Dan 🤐 r/dark (Is not the man & Braxman Tomsparks Advocate ): You cannot have another non-CCS donation address for a CCS proposal. According to the manual. 19:53:02 <123bob123:matrix.org> Pretty sure devs arent relying on ccs funds 19:53:05 Did you feel like the committee process wouldn't allow you to solicit community feedback on features you wanted to work on? 19:53:27 <123bob123:matrix.org> As in disclosure i have another 19:53:31 But I guess vtnerd could close his MAGIC fundraiser if he wants and open a CCS one. (Good way to centralize things :P) 19:53:51 I didn't realize it took up to 6 weeks for some of the other projects. But I'll remain patient for now 19:55:01 AFAIK, if vtnerd wanted a CCS fundraiser open at the same time as a MAGIC one, it could not be for the exact same work. Under no system can you get paid twice for the same work AFAIK. Pretty universal ethics rules. 19:55:42 But maybe for a different set of work objectives 19:56:34 @sgp I'm just not certain whether the committee was aware of what the community wanted out of LWS. Tbf, I don't think the community has much input other than they may want some wallet support for lws, etc 19:57:04 vtnerd, you still have hours on your old CCS, so the MAGIC fundraising wait has no effect on your flow of funds, right? 19:58:00 And Rucknium: yes, general ethics has me not posting a CCS unless the magic post is resolved 19:59:13 Anyway, we still have a request to Core about contributions to the fundraiser, still waiting on responses from Monero businesses about possible donations, etc 19:59:31 Yes, theres a bit of time but it'll be out soon. Like I said, I'm going to remain patient with magic for now. Itll hurt, but I can stomach a bit o 19:59:42 *stomach a bit of a gap 20:01:27 That's one of the reasons I personally wanted to approve it quickly. An unknown time to complete the fundraiser. But that meant it was not discussed in this channel. 20:02:05 <123bob123:matrix.org> Depends. I would go with the best option, currently 3 devs got funded? On ccs. 20:03:12 <123bob123:matrix.org> No one is stopping vtnerd from creating a proposal on ccs. If you disclose “ i also created a proposal on magic” people will weight and decided what they want to do. 20:03:34 <123bob123:matrix.org> Weigh up* 20:04:52 <123bob123:matrix.org> 1. Create proposal 20:04:53 <123bob123:matrix.org> 2. Ofrn screams merge 20:04:53 <123bob123:matrix.org> 3. Merged 20:05:58 I don't think (2) would happen since ofrn has read the CCS rules. 20:06:21 It could be for a separate set of work objectives, but not the same as MAGIC. 20:08:40 Number 5 for proposers: "You may NOT under any circumstances include a donation address directly in your proposal. This circumvents the CCS, and can lead to scams." https://ccs.getmonero.org/what-is-ccs/ 20:09:46 <123bob123:matrix.org> So you cant disclosure in your proposal that you also have a competing proposal? 20:12:39 <123bob123:matrix.org> I think people would want to know 20:14:38 <123bob123:matrix.org> This is just my 5cents plus interest 20:25:36 It's basically another donation address in the proposal though, so Im unlikely to try thag 20:38:44 a ccs for hours spent reviewing other peoples monero-core pull requests? 20:41:41 "what do we want vtnerd to focus on" shall be added to the meetings here 20:43:48 480~ hours to review others pull requests. vtnerd has a track record of correctly accounting for his hours and -dev require his help regularly, seems a no brainer 20:48:57 Lol 480 hours of just code reviews? I'd go insane lol 20:49:33 :D 20:49:43 480 hours of rebasing other peoples pull requests!! 20:51:56 If funding fails to gain speed, just open a ccs and get fast funding for _this_ proposal, and adjust the magic one for next proposal, so its funded when ready 20:53:12 its not like you think you can LEAVE us, do you 😄 20:53:34 (i mean, whats the diff? 3 months vs 6 etc) 20:53:42 an open ended CCS which you can pull from in small regular batches for all the things that make you go insane, while concurrently, you have funds for community focused tasks such as lws things for example 20:53:46 Half ccs half magic 20:54:09 First 3 months ccs, next 3 magic 20:54:20 First 3 gives time to adjust for feedback 20:54:48 better to avoid putting vtnerd in the center of a "CCS vs MAGIC fiight!!!" 20:54:57 its not a fight ? 20:55:02 I literallt said use both 20:55:13 And dont waste ppls time making them wait 20:55:31 that wasn't directed to you 20:55:34 If magic will be slow, it should have time. 3 months should be enough time 20:56:12 its the people who jump in here to throw mud at the ccs then offer magic is the alternative , when they can co-exist without problems 20:58:18 <123bob123:matrix.org> Bloody in, blood out 😎 20:58:26 <123bob123:matrix.org> Blood in, blood out 😎 20:59:50 They complement each other, but i dont see MAGIC ever replacing ccs, and vice versa 20:59:59 I dont use spoons to cut my steak 21:00:08 Save that for the soup 21:00:22 <123bob123:matrix.org> This is why i said” its like having two job” whocares. People will make there own decision with you dont hide anything. 21:00:23 Cant use my knife to eat my soup either 21:00:34 but the ccs is controlled by secret entities and is centralised and we delay people needlessly ! 21:00:35 But both help me eat 21:01:15 Who are the secret entities lol. Last i checked im a powerless banned noob 21:01:18 <123bob123:matrix.org> Secret entity in ring signature 21:01:19 And my votes always count 21:02:42 <123bob123:matrix.org> The illusion that it counts 21:18:02 Consumer confidence 🔥 21:26:05 theres an aquarium the Monero HQ - it has 1 goldfish inside and when that goldfish moves from one side of the tank to the other [redacted] times, proposals get merged 21:26:20 s/the/at the 21:33:21 <123bob123:matrix.org> Thought it was a groundhog 21:56:20 Whats the flag for rpc wallet to tell it not to sync 21:58:49 plowsof 22:02:15 the one that skips initial sync so you can talk to it while its syncing? or 😅 22:04:16 --no-initial-sync ofrnxmr ? 22:04:42 Thats the one thanks 22:07:15 <123bob123:matrix.org> Test passed 22:16:49 I'm back, if the hex dude still need testnet xmr. 22:19:27 he said that he DMed you 22:27:38 Yeah, I was sleeping when that happened. Time zones, ya know 😬 22:27:51 <123bob123:matrix.org> Sleep when dead 22:28:29 I'm pretty much dead when I go to sleep 😆 22:41:27 👋 xFFFC0000 22:45:06 we may have to resort to sharing his testnet address here. drastic times call for drastic measures 22:48:02 Well, do it already. Those testnet Monero are burning a hole in my pocket.