02:04:08 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> My Lenovo X200 can run Plasma fine
02:04:09 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Is Gnome more bloated that I thought?
02:04:45 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Oh non wait, it's Ubuntu 😂
02:24:41 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> G is silent
02:32:52 <luigi1112> hmmm
02:36:56 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Wb
11:25:22 <plowsof> https://ccs.getmonero.org/ideas/
12:29:26 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> No, I think you're right, Gnome has become bloated.  It runs very slow and even locks up on a brand new install, where KDE Plasma runs like a scalded dog.  I also get better performance out of my MX Linux system than I ever did out of Debian, even though MX is based on Debian, it seems faster and more stable, with some very cool utilities I haven't found anywhere else like Timeshi<clipped message>
12:29:26 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> ft, and MX Snapshot, MX Remaster, and USB Creator.
14:39:32 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Whoever brought up NixOS yesterday, bless you and curse you too.
14:39:33 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> = i found ubuntu (possibly wayland, not sure) was causing gnome lag
14:39:33 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> = something really cool to play with
14:39:34 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> - couldnt build haveno from source
14:39:34 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> - virtual machines refuse to run as a standard user with an access denied message even after following the instructions. (Some permission issue)
14:39:35 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> = can run virtualbox as root, installed lubuntu, and installed haveno on that
14:40:15 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Whoever brought up NixOS yesterday, bless you and curse you too.
14:40:15 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> + i found ubuntu (possibly wayland, not sure) was causing gnome lag
14:40:16 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> + something really cool to play with
14:40:16 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> - couldnt build haveno from source
14:40:17 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> - virtual machines refuse to run as a standard user with an access denied message even after following the instructions. (Some permission issue)
14:40:17 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> + can run virtualbox as root, installed lubuntu, and installed haveno on that
14:42:01 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Will fight more with permissions later, rn im done with screwing with it
14:42:40 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Oh, it was prancing389
14:45:51 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> I'll likely use KDE with nixOS when I test it out over the next few weeks.
14:46:54 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> probably bring it up in a KVM instance under Proxmox, downloaded ISO yesterday.
14:48:03 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> but it will take alot to pull me away from MX Linux
14:56:52 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> You should try MX Linux, distrowatch has them as MOST popular, #1 rated
14:58:16 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Isnt that arch based?
14:58:43 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> no, debian based, but I think they used some bits from arch
14:59:40 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I think im gunna stick with nix for a while, i like what i see so far
15:00:45 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> NixOS sounds very cool.  I will get there eventually.
15:01:32 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> You mean you're not running it? You're the one who brought it up. I thought you were running it.
15:02:06 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Here
15:03:25 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> btw, one significant difference between Debian and MX is the init system.  Debian is 'systemd' and MX is 'sysV-init'.  I think some of this tech comes from Anti-X distro
15:03:50 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I was considering trying Nix eventually.
15:03:50 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> With what I raid on here I might just skip that.
15:04:01 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> MX use to bay lightwight too
15:04:28 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I did use it on my X200, it was one of the few that did not only support my old 3G modem but also support sending and receiving SMS with it
15:04:54 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> MX use to be lightwight too
15:05:58 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Its actually really nice, and the package isolation and never ending up in an unbootable state is really good
15:06:20 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Dependency hell is not a nice place to end up
15:06:31 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But you can simply use BTRFS and do snapshot each time you run paru or pacman
15:06:52 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But you can simply use BTRFS on arch and do snapshot each time you run paru or pacman
15:07:06 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> True
15:08:34 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, that's why I run windows for desktop, with WSL2 for my Desktop linux need.
15:08:34 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Dependency hell problem exist since 1994 and they won't fix it
15:08:35 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Only Gentoo for all the thing seam to have something about that (when you upgrade and something fail, instead of just abording, it continue but also keep the old libs installed for that thing that failed to upgrade.
15:08:35 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I think you do emerge @preserved-build for trying to upgrate theses
15:09:15 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Ubuntu was so laggy on my machine i thought i may have to get a new one. Turns out it wasnt gnome at all, just ubunty
15:09:22 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Server install have way less risk to hit that dependencies hell problem (need a lot less package for a Linux server)
15:09:40 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> But i require gnome and cant use another DE
15:09:58 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Actually, I can use cinnamon as well since it was a fork.
15:10:12 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Last time I upgraded an Arch that was hit by a critical CVE (in Glibc), I could not upgrade because of a steam dependency 😂
15:10:31 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Mate?
15:10:47 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I use to like Gnome 2
15:10:47 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Then they made Gnome 3 🤮
15:10:55 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Not to my knowledge
15:11:50 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I need accessibility and to my knowledge only gnome3 and forks have zoom and screen reader built in
15:12:22 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Oh, that I can't say, I never used theses things
15:13:15 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> KDE may possibly, but xfce, lxqt, i3, etc are no go for me
15:13:37 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I cant see them
15:13:39 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I assume Plasma would have it yeah as it's the most well integrated Linux desktop option that exist
15:13:45 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> but the small one I would forget about
15:14:01 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> I'm a recent KDE convert, used gnome for years, but now I'm sold on KDE
15:14:51 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> I love KDE connect to pair with my phone
15:15:16 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I used KDE3
15:15:16 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Then KDE4 went out and I switched to gnome 2
15:15:17 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Then they made Gnome 3 so I can away to a fork of KDE3 (Trinity).
15:15:17 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Then KDE4 got finally feature parity with KDE3 (and got renamed to Plasma)
15:15:18 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> So now I just use Plasma for my Linux Desktop
15:15:26 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I used KDE3
15:15:26 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Then KDE4 went out and I switched to gnome 2
15:15:27 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Then they made Gnome 3 so I ran away to a fork of KDE3 (Trinity).
15:15:27 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Then KDE4 got finally feature parity with KDE3 (and got renamed to Plasma)
15:15:28 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> So now I just use Plasma for my Linux Desktop
15:15:43 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Another reason i use gnome is bc i am a very keyboard oriented user, having used screen readers for over 20 years the mouse is a secondary method to me
15:16:17 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I would say that Plasma is the only one that is as good and well integrated compared to Microsoft Explorer or Apple Aqua (if it's still called that)
15:17:13 <m-relay> <p​rancing389:matrix.org> check out "Yakuake"
15:17:45 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I like Yakuake
15:17:45 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's a Linux terminal that you open like the OG Quake ~ console
15:18:33 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I played with kubuntu a few years back. If i remember right it had zoom, but no screen reader.
15:18:52 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> And i need and use both frequently
15:19:04 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> One thing you have to kill when installing Plasma, is that abomination that is Baloo
15:20:18 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Plasma made me think "windows vista returns"
15:20:41 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Naa, Plasma is actually good.
15:20:41 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Vista was when Microsoft was trying and testing new things
15:20:44 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> IT LIVES
15:20:47 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> lol
15:23:01 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Baloo is that Plasma search crawler that eat a lot of resources and make the system lag
15:23:01 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> And the search function is utter crap
15:23:01 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> The Windows Search thing is even better (and it's not hard to beat), I also disable that search engine flavor
15:27:19 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I was able to use xfce, but had to use compiz to do it
15:27:52 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> been a while I did not use XFCE, I did daily drive it for a while over a decade ago
15:28:10 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I did also daily drive Enlightenment.
15:28:11 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Compiz-config-settings-manager if i recall
15:30:19 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, something like that. I did test that when it was first out (don't remember the name, before it got forked 27 time to Compiz). But I don't use that kind of froufrou mostly for performance reason (I think now it's totally fine to use it but back in the days it was forcing you're games OpenGL to use a more indirect patch)
15:31:52 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I think it was using XGL initially
15:32:23 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> And your game could not use opengl directly because XGL was using it, so they needed to go thru XGL first (or something like that)
15:34:40 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I didn't care about all the window animations and stuff like that. They were cool at first, and then I got over them. But what I cared about most was the zoom functionality.
15:35:05 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> The burning closed windows or water slash windows was fun for a while though
15:36:25 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, I just tested it to make my all desktops into a 3D cube and just put a "borg cube texture" wallpaper
15:36:26 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Was fun but was not worth the loss of direct rendering
17:37:04 <plowsof> #monero-offtopic #monero-operating-systems? 
17:38:01 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> #monero-plowsof wen?
17:38:22 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Always has been
20:14:08 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> [BETA]AtomicSwap wallet. Checkout link:
20:14:09 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> https://monero.town/post/2249489
20:14:09 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> Feedback appriciated
20:22:04 <ofrnxmr> Theres NOTHING atomic about it?
20:22:24 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Let me know when it can do swap, might be an alternative to that Samurai thing assuming it can swap in both direction in the same app.
20:23:09 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> theres nothing monero about it either lol
20:23:31 <RavFX> ofrnxmr: For now it seam to only be a website wallet embeebed into an app.
20:25:18 <RavFX> Main monero code is monero_wall_full.wasm and monero_web_worker.js
20:25:27 <ofrnxmr> trocador should release a wallet called "REALatomicswapwallet"
20:25:42 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> ah yes thanks, i see monero-javascript also
20:25:46 <ofrnxmr> Since were in the biz of false advertisement.. yolo
20:26:02 <RavFX> We just need something that do both commit swap direction into a c++ app or something
20:26:22 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> Hi, m-relay RavFX Currently wallet status is in beta, comit atomic swap will be integrated soon enough.
20:26:23 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> plowsof yes, fortunatelly there is. Even self signing on machine, without using rpc. It is continued from old btc project, so, it has been updated to use electrum client plus with monero
20:26:24 <ofrnxmr> Commit only does 1 way
20:26:54 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> false advertising and spam of a crypto wallet atomic_swap_labs is cause for concern
20:27:02 <ofrnxmr> yes ^
20:27:12 <ofrnxmr> "beta" released 2 mth ago
20:27:32 <RavFX> I mean, do taker btc->xmr and maker xmr->btc in one simple app instead of having to set the maker asb in a vps
20:28:04 <RavFX> that's what I mean by "both way"
20:28:13 <ofrnxmr> change name of wallet to "NonAtomicSwap Wallet"
20:28:37 <RavFX> Now you can use unstoppable swap for one way and set an asb for the other way, there would be more participants if it would be more user friendly, I think
20:28:39 <ofrnxmr> "I mean, do taker btc->xmr and maker xmr->btc in one simple app instead of having to set the maker asb in a vps"
20:28:52 <ofrnxmr> you need a backend for that
20:29:02 <ofrnxmr> a distributed orderbook
20:29:41 <ofrnxmr> And if this wallet just (plans to) piggyback (it doesn't do anything yet), then it has go use basicswap or design its own orderbook
20:34:42 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> So this a non-atomic atomic wallet
20:35:49 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> yes, ofrnxmr[m] wallet will undergo now a frequent development stage, this is just proof of concept that it can be truly decentralized. Thats why we declare it in beta stage, and not intended for production use. m-relay yes, comit does 1 way, but we do also intend to do implementation of farcaster as well. Bit old protocol, but we will revive it.
20:39:55 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> https://github.com/AtomicSwapLabs/AtomicSwapWallet/blob/main/monero-wallet-rpc.log#L2939
20:40:51 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> No seed 😢
20:41:43 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> https://github.com/AtomicSwapLabs/AtomicSwapWallet/blob/main/dist/monero_wallet_full.wasm
20:41:43 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> Why did you commit a binary blob to the repo?
20:42:07 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I did see it, the other js is kind of a mess too
20:43:35 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> There's ton un "unreadable" .js in the source
20:43:54 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> There's ton of "unreadable" .js in the source
20:45:30 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> Why does your yarn.lock file list >1000 dependencies?
20:46:47 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> at kind of issue, with xmr contributors that asked same question, and  asked if blob is tempered with.
20:46:47 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> So, that wasm blob is used for signing transactions, and its origin is verifiable by doing following:
20:46:48 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> curl -s https://raw.githubusercontent.com/AtomicSwapLabs/AtomicSwapWallet/main/public/monero_wallet_full.wasm | shasum -a 256
20:46:48 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> curl -s https://raw.githubusercontent.com/woodser/monero-ts/v0.8.2/dist/monero_wallet_full.wasm | shasum -a 256
20:46:49 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> first one is our blob, that we had to extract it in public so electron needed to pick up to serve, it couldn't be compiled in node_modules.
20:46:49 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> Second blob is from original maintaner. By extracting hashes, pretty much you can eyeball that file hashes are same, and files are not tempered with
20:46:52 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Not going to audit all these deps
20:47:38 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> https://github.com/AtomicSwapLabs/AtomicSwapWallet/blob/main/src/.DS_Store
20:55:06 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/nlereXngZFhQbURGoZIMvdVS
20:55:09 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Afaik, that's malware
20:55:56 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> The one that deleted Russians hdd ~2 years ago
21:12:30 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> https://snyk.io/blog/peacenotwar-malicious-npm-node-ipc-package-vulnerability/
21:12:30 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Why peoples still use code from know bad actors just ... 😂
21:24:59 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> if you use 1 bad dependency, you can cancel out the bad by using 5 good ones (hence the 1000 number)
21:36:03 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> ajs_: thanks for pointing out. File burned from commit. RavFX yes, node-ipc was compromised, npm did fix that issue long time ago
21:36:38 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Still, people use code from the dude who weaponized node-ipc, even today
22:30:14 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> literally, npm and dev got rid off "protestware", so either on latest or older version on node-ipc supply chain there is no issue. People can use it.
22:30:14 <m-relay> <a​tomic_swap_labs:matrix.org> Repo and dev stating its gone on link: https://github.com/RIAEvangelist/node-ipc/issues/3