01:50:04 pretty funny tho 04:39:13 Hello 08:39:08 jberman hinto 0xFFFC dangerousfreedom escapethe3ra selsta BigmenPixel plowsof 08:39:31 jeffro256 tobtoht 08:40:36 people awaiting ccs payouts please contact luigi1111 on irc and confirm payout addresses / amounts https://paste.debian.net/1313405/ 08:40:47 people awaiting ccs payouts please contact luigi1111 on irc and confirm payout addresses / amounts https://paste.debian.net/1313405/ 11:26:22 Another one?? 100 xmr https://twitter.com/WatchFund/status/1777496296128975346 11:32:35 plowsof: you sure it's not a glitch? 11:33:29 It doesnt feel real does it lol 11:35:25 binaryFate or anyone who spins a view wallet up can confirm. Ill have a look later 11:36:15 This the 10th? Iirc 12:03:13 GF be my GF 12:18:04 I'm restoring the donation wallet from the viewkey now, got curious 12:23:29 Looks like it: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/99c017aa/ 12:25:05 That's only year 2024 scanned, 10x 100 XMR donations, and a number of smaller donations. Overall 1178.93 XMR (assuming nothing was spent yet) 13:06:46 i got faith in ofrn 13:26:33 +1 for ofcxmr, we need more proposals not less 13:29:16 ofcxmr is a guy from the community, we need him for sure is not some lunatic crazy internet guy 13:30:46 when he doesn't know you or someone told him something bad about you 13:31:03 he might cast some bad words or attack you 13:31:49 but if you are his friend, he will help you to shill your project 13:32:17 and whatever you want because he is friend and also love monero 13:32:21 <3 13:35:51 Everyone get that ofrnxmr is of good faith. I talked with him when I arrived in this community, he was kind and helpful. But that doesn't mean he can act immature. I don't know you but I can't ignore a friend harassing other people (like matrix mods and cw). What blocks me is that he consider himself to be in the right to act like that. And that's the issue, if he can't understand why insulting and acting arrogant is toxic for a community, then I don't know how we'll understand any other decisions regarding monero 13:36:20 Everyone get that ofrnxmr is of good faith. I talked with him when I arrived in this community, he was kind and helpful. But that doesn't mean he can act immature. I don't know you but I can't ignore a friend harassing other people (like matrix mods and cw). What blocks me is that he consider himself to be in the right to act like that. And that's the issue, if he can't understand why insulting and acting arrogant is toxic for a community, then I don't know how he will understand any other decisions regarding monero 13:37:29 This really lowkey maturity topic. This is so fucking simple to understand the bad that you cause by yelling but still ofrnxmr don't. I'm not gonna support such a guy. He needs to grow up 13:40:01 This really just maturity topic. This is so fucking simple to understand the bad that you cause by yelling but still ofrnxmr don't. I'm not gonna support such a guy. He needs to grow up 13:47:39 i get you but you don't know his story, he might be working on coal mine, digging uranium or something lke that 13:48:00 >contact on IRC 13:49:41 https://xkcd.com/1782/ kicks in 13:50:04 if we give him some money, he might find some alternative and be more relaxed 13:52:17 I'm not insensible to this. But as you said I don't know him, I don't know his story, maybe he is doing the most clever social engineering attempt on a community we've ever seen. So I don't support this CCS, but I get that you do. 13:55:56 he is long time in community already tho, he voted last year about monerokon as long-time member, so its 1+ year 13:56:50 medium to low risk of exit scam 13:58:34 considering upfront payment to ofcxmr 14:06:48 I don't think it can be worse, it can only get better with this proposal accepted 14:07:17 he is long time in community already tho, he voted last year about monerokon as long-time member <> he also attacked the organizer of monerokon, questioning his motivations etc. Said he was doing so many things wrong. It was only opinion but his non stop criticisms got in the way of actually planning the event. 14:07:47 this proposal breaks so many CCS rules and he knows that 14:10:29 no idea what 14:10:59 "he voted last year about monerokon as long-time member" means 14:11:46 Maybe a compromise can be reached (so he can get unbanned and we can revise his proposal) if he acknowledges his fault and pinky promises to be less angry, more constructive. 14:12:56 acknowledges his fault 0_o 14:14:13 He is not malicious. Sucks that his anger management problem overshadows the good he has done. 14:15:24 he said in his proposal that he can't make xmr donations from providing support because he is banned so he opened a CCS 14:16:08 so unban him 14:22:12 If he is unbanned, we will just have to go through this cycle again. 14:22:48 It's happened about three times already, by my count. 14:24:41 The CCS is not up to standard, and being made by someone that has been disruptive enough to get banned from a number of channels. Why would anyone believe that we should then pay this person 200 XMR? 14:25:12 Seriously. 14:26:46 Many CCS before where kinda scammy and still made there money sooo. 14:27:49 That isn't a valid reason to accept this proposal. That's a valid reason NOT to accept this proposal. 14:28:11 I want to open a CCS to get back 10% of the xmr I have donated over the years 14:28:35 My point is that ofrn ccs value > these other CCS that where accepted 14:28:41 would that comply with the rules? 14:28:47 rav stop trolling 14:29:09 your 486 wouldn't be proud of you rn 14:31:26 midipoet: who is losing if ofcxmr get ccs money? 14:31:34 donators only lose right? 14:31:53 it's important we have normal discussion and agree on things 14:32:17 do you expect agreement on this? 14:32:23 unban is work of mods but ccs is community decision 14:32:35 project credibility. There is a little quality assurance to maintain regarding CCS. If we accepted any project proposal, we would transform into bitejo's donation platform 14:33:40 Let say 14:33:40 * If time > 6 and time <10 and batteries > 40% then start mining 14:33:41 * If time > 13 and time < 23 and batteries drop bellow 60% then stop mining 14:33:42 Oh my, can I have get Soloptxmr 120XMR now? 14:33:43 Needless this discrimination also empower the CCS author that receive useful criticism for its work. 14:33:48 Needless to say this discrimination also empower the CCS author that receive useful criticism for its work. 14:33:54 Can probably find plenty examples 14:34:04 it's not like that ofcxmr is respected on this community 14:34:30 *in 14:35:49 MajesticBank: would ofrnxmr expect to be able to complete the CCS whilst still being banned from nearly all monero channels? 14:36:14 That CCS reads like a joke and a trolling attempt. Frankly it would be embarrassing for the project to have that approved. 14:36:39 according to ofrnxmr comments. He expect to his work accross dms 14:36:45 according to ofrnxmr comments. He expect to complete his work accross dms 14:37:06 yes and ofrn's criticisms of CCS proposals were often useful 14:37:26 wonder what he would say about his own 14:37:39 I can imagine lol 14:38:15 He is surely here reading anyway. 14:38:15 It's not like it's hard to create more account 14:38:35 no way Rav = ofrnxmr ?????? 14:38:41 I hope he is 14:38:51 Non, i'm now ofrn alt lol 14:39:05 I can understand the person has added value at some points, but ask for some tips, not a fully funded CCS with no tangible deliverable. 14:39:14 Non, i'm not ofrn alt lol 14:39:41 can confirm :) 14:40:11 have never seen an active ofrn alt 14:40:48 We'll still need to discuss that properly and with constructive thoughts during community meeting. Even if its a joke every CCS deserve to be treated equally 14:41:12 should be* 14:42:08 midipoet: He is very active from what I see, github, twitter, reddit, telegram 14:42:13 and over DMs 14:42:24 "I hope he is" was in response to "he is surely reading here anyway" 14:42:46 helping, testing 14:43:13 he could also use IRC 14:43:53 is IRC broken, it's linked to monero.social right? 14:44:00 tes 14:44:12 matrix is broken, not irc 14:44:34 there is no CCS requirement for person to be mentally well etc 14:45:01 there is a requirement for milestones and deliverables 14:45:11 also 3 month max 14:45:25 and ccs rules are formality which we can see from other year over year extending proposals 14:47:13 MajesticBank: so you are saying any proposal can be made and automatically be merged? 14:47:21 that's not how it works 14:47:28 doug did a longer one that ended up not working out that well. Not clear how much was timeframe related 14:48:28 nioCat I think better to say most rules are not hard and fast, but merging should be merit-based. Definitely not automatic 14:48:55 doug came to his senses and didn't quit his job 14:49:11 it's different is it someone from inside or outside the community, ofcxmr got a support from the people 14:49:24 not random internet dude proposal 14:49:31 so to say 14:49:36 luigiCat payout today? 14:49:51 luigi1111w: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 14:50:06 please let selsta eat again 14:50:37 selsta yes 14:52:44 MajesticBank this isn't an auto reject afaict, but there are concerns and support required regardless 14:52:59 MajesticBank: it's clear there is not consensus support for the proposal, nor the quality of the work by the proposer 14:53:18 You can argue that there doesn't need to be strong consensus, fine. 14:54:22 MajesticBank "there is no CCS requirement for person to be mentally well" Lol 14:57:53 luigi1111w: yes not hard and fast but it seems that even basic guidelines were ignored in this proposal from someone who rightly criticized other proposals for ignoring those guidelines 14:59:22 If the CCS is to be judged fairly, then i would like to hear 1) from prominent devs and researchers in the community who would like to work with ofrnxmr, and on what topics, 2) whether luigi1111 wants to work with ofrnxmr on the CCS Hack response, and 3) from prominent community members on whether we should pre-fund 12 months of work from someone that has never complete a CCS proposal before. 14:59:32 certainly the proposed year timeframe for a CCS that is certainly contentious would never be accepted and yet...........there it is 15:01:12 all fair questions. I do think a year is too much for a beginning proposal. 15:02:22 reg ccs hack response iirc hackerindustrial (of monero seedsigner) was given image(s) of the computer(s) and no further updates have arrived yet, is my assumption correct luigi? 15:05:42 Progress left at here : https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/923#issuecomment-1862024427 15:06:32 Yes, plenty of people do that. We don't need to PAY people to do work like that, especially when you can't measure/take account for the actual work done. 15:07:46 Show me another proposal that takes all the money upfront. This isn't how CCS is done. 15:08:07 Are we going to pay all people who have been in the community 1+ years now? 15:09:03 100% - if people want to donatae why not just send it to him privately to his address? 15:09:17 if that model is sustainable and they can bring something to the table 15:09:25 seems ofcxmr is learning coding? 15:09:41 This is the exact issue. 15:12:22 Are you going to help support everyone who has helped XMR in anyway with money? 15:12:38 just unban ofrn 15:12:39 easy fix 15:12:45 There are plently of people who work tirelessly for the community, I don't see them getting a 208 XMR payday. 15:12:53 unban snex too 15:12:57 Why is he any different? 15:13:16 Anyone can make a ccs proposal 15:13:25 That's not the point. 15:13:34 I am kind of sorry a lot more people don't apply for CCS proposal 15:14:03 because they are honest people 15:14:25 well if we can't have honest people give us w/e we can have 15:14:33 Nothing stops anyone from donating to them. 15:14:42 You are acting as if CCS is the only way to give to some one. 15:14:48 Everyone posts their donation addresses, its not secret. 15:15:06 It is kind of secret tho 15:15:20 anyway 15:15:54 we shouldn't be gatekeepers 15:15:56 No its not. he has a publically listed address. 15:16:01 No its not. he has a Publically listed address. 15:16:11 So let's approve all CCS proposals then? 15:16:43 put him on 3 months 15:16:46 Snex was banned from only offtopic after libera OPs where involved when some comments broke the CoC. He began filling this room with offtopic, i kindly asked him to stop, he refused/continued/joked that he woukd continue until unbanned from off topic, then i remembered it should have been a monero wode ban ravfx 15:17:03 Wide* 15:17:06 That is one of the main concerns. He has no milestons/accountability. 15:17:19 If he said 3 months and see how it goes, then its less of an issues. 15:17:32 He's just saying pay me 208 XMR and maybe I'll do what I say I will. 15:17:40 give him supervisor how you call it w/e 15:18:16 We ARE supervising him by critiquing his proposal. 15:18:41 17:13:34 I am kind of sorry a lot more people don't apply for CCS proposal 15:18:41 procrastination and attention span from my part ngl 15:18:59 we are low on critics currently in the community 15:22:09 This sounds reasonable. We could maybe add, that this is reduced to a normal 3/6 month proposal. Also I'd like that he pinky promises to work on his anger control. Because everyone should be as rational as possible in this community when discussing stuff. 15:26:30 > we are low on critics currently in the community 15:26:30 No we aren't. Critique arrives, when required, and almost always in an honest, open, respectful and pragmatic fashion. 15:26:37 Maybe the answer should be to pay more people instead of less. I'd like to monero to flourish and for that we can't expect people with valueable skills to do it for free. 15:27:18 mrwonderland: so now pay him to promise to act on his anger issues? 15:29:08 We already got that discution before. 15:29:09 like replace CSS for donate to actual MONERO dev or something like that 15:29:25 How about, he puts in a rational CCS, supported explicitly by the people he professes to want to work alongside in the community, and then we withhold payment until he completes the proposed work AND whilst maintaining his (and everyone elses) sanity whilst doing so. MajesticBank has already offered to be his babysitter, so that bit is solved. 15:30:05 On a 3 month basis. 15:30:26 No. I'd like to hear, like you said, from the people that would work with him etc. 15:30:27 The 'working on anger problems' is just an additional requirement to approve that ccs. 15:31:51 Paid upfront, as he already showed that he works in large for the monero community. 15:32:29 No, in milestones, like other CCS proposals. 15:32:36 Where do you see people being paid upfront? 15:33:28 midipoet: bro not sure that was in respectful manner anyway I don't have any gain from this proposal and hadn't offered anything 15:34:47 I think this is a general problem with the system. Why shouldn't TRUSTED people, that already showed that they work for monero reliably, be paid upfront (for like 3 month)? 15:35:10 Haveno front end had funds upfront. A closed proposal has asked for 50% upfront 15:35:55 j0j0xmr please do some research. Asking the void to "show me" is not a good way to learn or prove a point if youve bot looked into it yourself 15:36:08 Then apply it to everyone, selsta, jberman, etc. Its a slap in the face to those contributors who follow the CCS rules. 15:36:10 https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/selsta-5.html 15:36:19 Look at selsta's proposal. The should be the template for anyone wanting to contribute. 15:36:53 Why should ofnrxmr, who can't even compare to selsta, get special treatment? 15:37:30 3 months 15:37:40 Put him on a 3 month proposal, with clear objectives and milestones, paid out monthly, no upfront payments. 15:38:03 why is this UI broken there, huh https://irc.gammaspectra.live/de0fea56a93bdad2/image.png 15:39:37 Some contributors do not even want upfront payments 15:40:30 Yes! This is what I'm talking about. I would donate to the proposal of selsta for example where he gets payed upfront for like 3 month. 15:41:15 You won't support selsta because they're not paid upfront? You know they still get the money right? 15:41:20 What a strange thing to say. 15:42:16 If the upfront payment for like 1-3 month is clear to the donaters, then there's no reason to not pay him upfront. If people don't want him to be paid upfront, they won't donate. 15:42:52 Selsta is the one who made the proposal, and is clearly OK with being paid that way, so what's the problem exactly? 15:43:14 You won't support selsta because they don't get paid upfront? 15:43:19 What? I support(ed) his proposals either way. Please read what I write and don't assume stuff. 15:43:36 " I would donate to the proposal of selsta for example where he gets payed upfront for like 3 month." 15:44:24 Be clear then. 15:45:16 Anyway, this is my suggestion. Have ofrnxmr follow the standard template for a contributor proposal. 15:48:13 Exactly. I did NOT write: 'I wouldn't support him, if he doesn't want to get paid upfront' or 'I only support selsta if he wants to be paid upfront' 15:48:14 I was clear, to my knowledge. 15:48:49 I've been at my job for 8 years, always reliable 15:48:50 You supported either way so there's no issue. Being paid after completing a milestone is standard. 15:49:12 imma gunna ask for the next 12 months pay up front 15:51:38 Yes do it. It's not totally abnormal to pay for something upfront, or at least partially. But yes you can make a strawman with 12 month when I said 1-3 month. 15:52:35 reg ccs hack response iirc hackerindustrial (of monero seedsigner) was given image(s) of the computer(s) and no further updates have arrived yet, is my assumption correct luigi? <= yeah haven't heard anything back 15:53:46 nioCat i hope your 12 month vacation. You deserve it 15:54:12 s/your/you enjoy your 15:55:56 I pay my internet and phone service upfront 15:56:45 And they don't give me credit when it die so I actually pay the internet service upfront so I can stay perma-online 15:56:56 And they don't give me credit when it die so I actually pay three internet service upfront so I can stay perma-online 15:57:21 Who am I and how did I get here? 15:57:30 ok imma gunna only ask for 3 months, that should be approved 15:58:06 s/12/3 15:58:27 rotten yes 15:59:36 the last CCS that paid upfront worked well :D 16:00:41 it's simple, there are deliverables, finish x amount for a milestone, get paid 16:01:29 this proposal has no deliverables or milestones 16:02:13 ofrn knows how it works, he has criticized proposals for their failings 16:02:27 and yet this is what he proposes when he knows better 16:02:32 very strange 16:02:43 Exactly, not hard to understand. 16:03:10 Its almost as if there are sock accounts saying this time is different. Strange. 16:05:30 Maybe I don't understand the CCS rules. plowsof is this OK? 17:13:27 https://ccs.getmonero.org/what-is-ccs/ 17:46:39 Please replace Gitlab with something usable. 17:46:40 After getting a phone number to get verified, it now ask for credit card detail. So I can't comment on a CCS or open a CCS.. 17:49:47 Full on complete KYC power trip, start by asking email, then phone number and then credit card details. 17:49:48 Can they at least ask the whole package from the beginning instead lol 17:51:46 Just sign in with Github. 17:51:52 credit card for something you don't pay for? 17:51:56 It does the same thing 17:52:13 I tried to link a github account before even trying to get a phone number 17:52:19 Yep, with full name and address info 17:52:25 like I said, full on KYC power trip 17:52:47 address = 1983 Chevy 17:52:53 various locations 17:53:39 at least they haven't made it retroactive 17:54:06 I don't know how they verify the cards. 17:54:06 I guess I could get a prepaid cc from coinsbee and put a bogus name/address but afaik they can detect if it's a gift card so I expect full loss of time for that 18:04:24 We need to host all monero related git on our own stuff 18:04:25 using some network distributed file system 18:04:26 everyone who host could provide a clearned and .onion address. 18:04:27 That could work I guess. 18:04:28 Have to be sure everything get replicate on all participating servers 18:04:29 So someone can open a PR on X server and someone else merge the same PR on Y server 18:07:38 Sadly if you login to the ccs gitlab with your GH account you cant fork the ccs proposals repo 18:13:38 We really need a decentralized mean to git monero stuff. 18:13:39 So Anyone can participate and... Whatif the admins ask the corpo to ditch monero? 18:18:49 MajesticBank: you don't need to call me bro, either respectfully or not. We have already reached loose consensus that ofrnxmr has "anger management issues". he is currently banned from community channels because of this. You seemed to agree he would require some direct oversight to ensure he doesn't continue to be disruptive. This after (it seems) he receives a payout upfront for work that has no milestones, no 18:18:49 deliverables, and no clear indication of concrete direction. You said "give him supervisor how you call it w/e". Who is that supervisor going to be, if not you? Will that supervisor also be paid up front? 18:20:15 i have anger issues too @majesticbank can you fund me 18:21:32 I honestly don't understand how people think the proposal, in it's current guise, should be taken seriously and actually meaningfully discussed. 18:23:11 i took a look - is he trying to get into core? is that the proposal? 18:24:36 nothing was really clear 18:32:28 He clarifies in the proposal comments he gets paid €25,500 for existing. "I am the deliverable". 18:43:29 Hi guys 18:43:30 I am currently running https://txcity.io/ a forked version of txstreet, with 5 chains and 1k unique user visits aprox 18:43:31 and XMR needs some upgrades and changes, check this github : https://github.com/txstreet/processor/issues/2 18:43:32 need your opinion on whether i can create a fundraiser for my work and infrastructure cost coverage for up to 1 year 19:06:24 Why does txcity dot io have monero under construction/disabled and https://tx.town/v/xmr-btc works*? Also https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/txstreet-2021.html 19:07:35 Feels like more of a bounty to get the issue foxed upstream? 19:11:54 so its a joke or....? 19:23:09 It's not a joke insofar as if objections aren't raised it will get merged by Core and now the project will have the precedent of endorsing a blank check five figure CCS for someone existing 19:30:04 that's not quite right, unless there's significant positive engagement. It's also quite far from the norm and core would have concerns before merging even if there was only positive sentiment 19:32:16 Thank you for the correction on Core criteria on merges 19:42:37 web3dopamine: You may want to read this log if you are not seeing responses to your question on element/matrix: https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20240409 19:42:38