00:37:58 <nioCat> plowman fully funded !!! https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/plowsof-ccs-coordinator-4.html
00:38:21 <nioCat> sloth is faster than bot
00:40:16 <n1oc> CCS Coordinator is now fully funded! https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/plowsof-ccs-coordinator-4.html @luigi1111
00:42:12 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> Nice
00:43:44 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Back to work plowsof
01:08:36 <luigi1111w> issues are enabled now syntheticbird
01:11:18 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Can someone remove the troll accounts in ccs. Its a shit show. If you have an issue with ofrn css or any grow some ballz and not hide like weaklings
01:12:46 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Can someone upvote ofrn ccs post for me?
01:14:30 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> are older CCS proposals expected to ever be cleaned up?
01:14:58 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> the ones listed as work in progress, i mean.
01:16:34 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Can someone upvote ofrn ccs post for me?
01:16:34 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Or move the CCS git on a non hostile provider
01:18:37 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Plowsof job
01:19:20 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> There is a focalboard with the status of the wip projects
01:22:15 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> SyntheticBird: thank you for
01:23:18 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> SyntheticBird: thank you for carrying the conversation of setting some community politeness guidelines in a way that I was unsuccessful in getting set up. Thank you luigi for being open to setting some standards. It really means a lot to me
01:25:02 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> It was pre setup. I wasnt born the last rain shower
01:46:23 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> @ofrnxmr You make no sense. If whoever disagrees with you deserves a ban, Monero will turn authoritarian. My name states what I want as the result of this CCS drama. I have already exposed your true intentions, and instead of addressing them you choose to slander me. I have noticed that you label anyone who disagrees with you a slur word, undercover agent, or some other nonsense. <clipped mes
01:46:23 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Grow a pair and thank you for proving why I need an alt account. I feel sorry for sgp, xmrscott and luigi who have to deal with your harassment
01:51:44 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> How well would anti surveillance/anti face recognitoon clothing from aliexpress work because they seem pretty affordable like $15-20 AUD
02:08:19 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> just wear a ski mask and sunglasses
02:08:58 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> It depend of the type
02:09:01 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> can you show some
02:10:54 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Some ai use a set of specific pattern many many time in different orientation and size all over the image to recognize the specific face. I know it's how opencv work and there a lot of cloths and face tattoes that totally defeat it
02:10:57 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> So mods can you do YOUR FUCKEN JOB.
02:11:18 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Bunch of soft cocks
02:11:36 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> But what work on a specific "ai" might not work on another one
02:11:57 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I don't think sunglasses are enough
02:12:38 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Honestly wearing this type of clothing will only increase attention from law enforcement. Hiding in plain sight is better
02:12:49 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005484880770.html?utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A#nav-review https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006739952637.html?utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A#nav-review https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006171227085.html?utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A#nav-review<clipped message>
02:12:50 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org>  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003311913750.html?utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A#nav-specificationhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003906463029.html?utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005212501138.html?utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A#nav-review
02:13:03 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Whoops didn't realise the output would look like that...
02:13:04 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Jesus Christ...
02:13:09 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Sorry about that
02:13:30 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> An anti opencv shirt will make the ai think you have ton and ton of faces instead of a shirt
02:14:03 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> What stops governments from flagging people who have an anti opencv shirt and then targeting them?
02:15:38 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> surgical mask is also nice, and generally more socially acceptable than ski mask
02:15:51 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> but maybe let's move to #monero-offtopic:monero.social
02:16:12 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Anyone know the best way to buy xmr in Australia??
02:16:30 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Localmonero
02:16:41 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> That is a pain in the arse though :/
02:17:18 <nioCat> Surgical masks don't work
02:17:50 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Do you have access to an exchange?
02:17:51 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Do I have to buy like paypal or some other currency and then pay them with that rather then just a debit card transaction... No one seems to accept credit card transactions it seems they only accept like revolut, paypal, payid and weird forms of payment rather then a direct just credit card transaction...
02:17:55 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> CEX
02:18:21 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> You can buy a coin with cheap fees and then swap from that coin to XMR
02:18:37 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> CEX -> coin with cheap fees -> off chain -> XMR
02:19:03 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Swap at changenow?
02:19:34 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Wait a second. What amounts are you buying?
02:19:38 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> For these purposes is using electrom fine?
02:19:51 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> At any time like only 100 AUD worth of XMR
02:19:55 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> I don't need a tonne bro
02:20:27 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> Haveno is expected to launch soon, fwiw.
02:20:35 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Hmm??
02:20:39 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Whats that??
02:20:45 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> For these purposes is using electrum fine?
02:20:47 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> https://haveno.exchange/
02:20:49 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Localmonero but DEX
02:20:57 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> DEX?
02:21:07 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> I'm not great with acryonyms lol
02:21:09 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Decentralized Exchange
02:21:10 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Soz
02:21:11 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Nothing :)
02:21:12 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Also they are likely to use thing better then opencv, they have money to hire brains to make more reliable ai
02:21:13 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Ah
02:27:18 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Nothing :)
02:27:19 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Also they are likely to use thing better then opencv, they have money to hire brains to make more reliable ai.
02:27:20 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> But most cheap anti ai merch probably only effective again opencv.
02:28:17 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> In your case you can do this:
02:28:18 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Buy LTC on CEX -> Transfer to MajesticBank (0.5% fee) -> Swap for XMR
02:29:05 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Hmm
02:29:08 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Cheers bro
02:29:28 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Only problem then will be my banks if they are hostile to these different crypto exchanges... 🤔
02:30:32 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> I know commonwealth bank flip flops like no tomorrow they are 1 second very pro cryptocurrency and the next second basically ban you from buying any or selling any from any exchange they know about...
02:32:33 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Localmonero supports directly transferring funds from your bank to a user for P2P swaps
02:33:03 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> You said you want credit card however and CEX would be best for this
02:33:52 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> I guess I could always try at a later date to set up an account with these folks and see what happens...
02:34:16 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> For the amounts you're talking about I don't think any bank will care
02:35:14 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Seems CEX only accept USD
02:35:23 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Hmm yeah I hope not
02:35:54 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> I just want to purchase like burner numbers for signing up for normie social medias anonymously and VPN subscriptions and stuff is what I want my monero for
02:36:53 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> You can just say you're investing in meme coins or something else that normies do with "crypto"
02:40:47 <m-relay> <p​awism:techsaviours.org> Ah ok good point lol
03:05:11 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Thank you Luigi
03:05:19 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Youre so helpful!
03:05:33 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Imagine being so humble as to thank yourself
06:13:16 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Looks like the spam is back
06:14:05 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> 4.5k pending transactions in the mempool
06:15:18 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> And most are 1/2 in/out
06:17:34 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, since 1 UTC
06:17:55 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Graph is in #monero
06:21:13 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> If all goes well then GBPs with FCMP should resolved this issue within a year hopefully
06:21:20 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> If all goes well then GBPs with FCMP should resolve this issue within a year hopefully
08:18:27 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Who merged it?
08:20:55 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> If the majority of people are wearing them
08:30:49 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-community-guideline
08:30:51 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> fuck off
08:32:03 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> What's wrong?
08:33:39 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> we dont need this crap
08:34:20 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I think we do. ofrnxmr has proven that we need some sort of rules in place for what the expected behavior should be in this community
08:34:44 <midipoet> monerobull: how do you stop channels descending into insults, slurs, and inflammatory language?
08:35:11 <midipoet> or do you not care when that happens?
08:35:13 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> exactly, this entire "drama" only exists because a few people are uncomfortable with ofrn pointing out issues in a harsh way
08:35:46 <midipoet> monerobull: do you honestly believe that is all he does?
08:39:05 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> guy isnt even following his own rules
08:39:06 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> fuck that
08:39:38 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Completely incorrect. This "drama" is happening because:
08:39:39 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> 1) ofrnxmr is a liar. He has overstated his position in contributing to Haveno and other Monero projects.
08:39:40 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> 2) Immature and offensive. I don't mind the occasional swears here and there but ofrnxmr constantly goes off on rants equivalent to spam in the Matrix channels. None of this is productive and if another user does this, they would be banned immediately.
08:39:41 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> 3) ofrnxmr's CCS proposal is ridiculous with no proof of future work.
08:39:42 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> No one minds ofrnxmr getting donations or contributing the project. What we do mind however is his constant harassment of people and a CCS proposal that shouldn't be merged unless it's improved upon. These community guidelines ensure that this "drama" does not happen again. Rules are not necessary bad. Free markets operate under rules and so can Monero social channels
08:41:28 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> i think insults are unnecessary but so is this shitty CoC
08:41:43 <midipoet> so how do you stop someone insulting people?
08:43:44 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> ofrn should tone it down a bit, sure
08:44:08 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> but some of the shit thats going on here 100% deserves his toxicity
08:44:30 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Can you please explain what "shit" exactly?
08:45:59 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> for example how movie ccs & msvb get a pass but then the same people go and try to block kayabas ccs+
08:46:01 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> for example how movie ccs & msvb get a pass but then the same people go and try to block kayabas ccs
08:47:28 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I do agree some of that is ridiculous too but it does not warrant the ofrn's behavior
08:47:36 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I do agree some of that is ridiculous too but it does not warrant ofrn's behavior
08:50:23 <midipoet> It's completely ok to disagree with people, including how they act, vote, or even who they support/don't support in discussions and debates, whether technical, ideological, or with regards to funding and governance. What isn't ok, is persistent inflammatory and derogatory language, specifically designed to insult people. 
08:51:33 <m-relay> <d​ayssincelastdrama:matrix.org> https://dayssincelastdramainmonerocommunitygrouponmatrixorirc.xyz/
08:51:46 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Even if you disagree with this CoC project. Could you at least report in the issue section what happened with CCS. This repo will not only cover moderation but CCS rules as well
08:52:10 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> lol
08:52:11 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> LMFAO
08:52:23 <midipoet> monerobull: you have said ofrnxmr should tone done a bit. How do we ensure that happens? He has been asked numerous times, but we keep going around in circles. The only way to avoid subjective banning (a criticism of previous moderation) is to have a clear guide as to what is, and what is not, acceptable. 
08:53:08 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> having a big community also have downsides unfortunetly
08:53:23 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I think we've been going in circles because ofrnxmr simply disagree with mods point of view and generally people's opinions on insults and harsh language.
08:54:01 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Why was this repo instantly merged into the main monero project on GitHub?
08:54:17 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> There are mistakes in the CoC. I actually had to reread it and I don't agree with it now
08:54:53 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> "No insulsts"
08:54:58 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I simply opened the repo and luigi said he prefered it to be under monero-project since its going to proposed to the project in the long-term
08:55:14 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah I know sorry for the typo I'll correct them later. I opened the repo at like 3 am
08:55:31 <midipoet> Because everyone is tired of the circles. We need something to resolve the issue. This is the only solution proposed so far. 
08:55:49 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> The idea is good, but I hope it won't turn into a dictatorship.
08:56:14 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> tbc while I wish this to succeed. I can't do that alone and I need other people POV and help at writing parts of this guideline. Discussion is already a lot
08:56:21 <midipoet> as long as the moderators follow the community dirven guidelines, it should be ok. 
08:56:34 <midipoet> OR we just have a free for all, and everything is allowed. 
08:57:14 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> We must have community driven guidelines. Our community is not even "big" on the Matrix compared to something like Bitcoin
08:57:36 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> One day it will grow exponentially and we need rules in place for when that time comes
08:58:26 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Like I said before. It's not the fact that we're big, but the fact that because Monero is a private cryptocurrency, we enter the realm of privacy community, and we're more opinionated than the average human in a society.
08:58:42 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> This is imo what drives to conflict so quickly
08:58:49 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> we just have to take that into consideration
08:59:49 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> What has driven conflict so quickly is not opinions but ridiculous behavior by a certain individual
09:00:18 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> anarchy baby
09:00:54 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> This will not work in the long term. When we have 10K members for example active in this channel, anarchy will lead to chaos. We must have rules in place
09:01:15 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> ofc it will not work, just joking
09:01:37 <jwinterm> honestly I think it just doesn't work when the "community" is beyond a certain size
09:02:12 <jwinterm> there is no bitcoin loose-knit collective for funding nearly all of bitcoin R&D and code updates and infra
09:02:18 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> how about you do the same that happened with @crypto's @monero on telegram? Some people didn't like being moderated and they moved to @MoneroUncensored, where the only rule is don't spam
09:02:30 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> beyond a certain size its no more a community but a society
09:02:52 <jwinterm> and having "rules" imposed on a society doesn't seem like the right way to grow a decentralized network imo
09:03:37 <jwinterm> I don't know what the alternative is here
09:03:50 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> I'd be happy to be in both groups, the formal one with rules, and the informal one that doesn't really care about what kind of language somebody uses.
09:04:01 <jwinterm> and it is great that work like cypherstack paper gets instafunded
09:04:05 <jwinterm> so maybe it's fine
09:04:08 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Issue are that *hardened* people will have ease in these channels were harsh languages and insults are maybe use as a joke. But other people just wishing to gather informations or discuss kindly will find themselves uncomfortable, while the opposite is completely possible.
09:04:11 <jwinterm> 🤷‍♀️
09:05:23 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> I'm 100% for freedom of speech, but also I don't really like having to read about how somebody is using a harsh language, and how badly written CoC solves word hunger and makes dreams come true
09:05:31 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Any channels under the Monero space ought to have rules in my opinion. There should be guidelines for how people should act and behave in a respectful manner (no trolling, excessive swearing, shilling, etc.). Anyone is welcome to create an unofficial Monero channel without rules but any related to Monero need guidelines to avoid all this nonsense
09:05:53 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I don't these are relatable. The monero project is already a centralization of the development force of Monero, a decentralized cryptocurrency. What I want with these "rules" are making it more welcoming for everyone
09:07:09 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> Then how about - don't join the unmoderated channel if you are so sensitive?
09:07:28 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> tbh, I wouldn't have cared about all of this, but the fact is that these so called drama are tiring the dev community. and that's unacceptable from my pov. If the dev is tired of its community and if the community don't trust the project anymore. Monero is dead.
09:07:57 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> then let's make one not in monero space
09:08:02 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> ofrnxmr spamming xmrscott's DMs with threats and swears has nothing to do with sensitivity
09:08:03 <jwinterm> I don't think it makes sense to have the same rules for contributing to monero daemon/wallet as there is for creating a ccs as there is for speaking in a chat
09:08:09 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> haha. fair argument but for me the official #monero channel actually turns into that sometimes. And I can't ignore that.
09:08:18 <plowsof> Are cuprate devs suffering because of the drama?
09:08:33 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> This could be a proposal
09:08:41 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Harassment shouldn't be tolerated. Period.
09:08:43 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no no absolutely not
09:08:45 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> idk, when my ex did that to me I blocked her.
09:08:54 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Cuprate's devs are doing fine
09:08:55 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> We need a safe environment for developers to contribute in. This requires strict rules and guidelines
09:09:13 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> #monerouncensored:matrix.org  how about no...
09:09:25 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yeah these rules would be different.
09:09:28 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> it is just about having a place to chat
09:09:30 <plowsof> Your name/alts identity is based on a negative sentiment toward someone else 'keepofrnxmrbanned' lol
09:09:33 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> let's keep this one formal
09:09:50 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> and move to another one if we want to be informal
09:10:13 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> also talking anything in DMs to anybody shouldn't have impact on somebodys presence in a group chat
09:10:14 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> @plowsof I have actually changed my username on Matrix. I was just expressing my opinion as ofrn was still banned and spamming in the chat
09:10:34 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> First it was in this chat but after ofrn got banned he continued to harass xmrscott privately
09:10:44 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> @plowsof I have actually changed my username on Matrix. I was just expressing my opinion as ofrn was still unbanned and spamming in the chat
09:10:51 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ofrnxmr if you see this chat you're welcome to open an issue in the repo as well
09:11:05 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> matrix banned users aren't banned from the guideline repo
09:11:25 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> I'm getting harassed privately by scammers multiple times a day, learn to block somebody and move on
09:11:43 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> hate speech shouldn't be tolerated111!1111!!
09:11:50 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I don't see how this is related. ofrnxmr isn't a simple scammer
09:12:36 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Please stop this nonsense. Me expressing my opinion on current drama is not hate speech. ofrn's rants are however
09:13:21 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thankyouluigi is kinda funny but keepofrnxmrbanned can be interpreted as trolling imo.
09:13:25 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> if somebody sends you a private message, and you feel harassed, then simply... block that person.
09:13:27 <plowsof> Both sides are enjoying the lack of moderation on the ccs comments. The detractors can point to/quote instances of insults/foul language/slurs etc whilst the supporters point to it as toxicity being deserved because of other issues
09:13:29 <jwinterm> lol I can't even tell if keepofrnbanned is actually in favor of keeping him banned or he is trying to be over the top and actually wants him unbanned
09:14:14 <plowsof> Jwinterm ye... 
09:14:27 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> If you read my backlogs I haven't trolled once. I've been helping newcomers and commenting on development stuff. If usernames are going to be moderated then I don't know what to say
09:14:43 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> plowsof were you born this soft, or it was an acquired skill you got as you were growing up?
09:14:47 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Asking for a friend.
09:15:17 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thats what lies in "can be interpreted". If I was mod I wouldn't ban you for such. I would wait to see if you were actually trolling.
09:15:21 <midipoet> plowsof: i don't enjoy the language in the CCS
09:15:34 <midipoet> Newcomers to the CCS might be affronted
09:15:39 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thats what lies in "can be interpreted". If I was mod I wouldn't ban you for such. I would wait to see if you are actually trolling.
09:15:43 <midipoet> And wonder if they should bother writing a proposal 
09:15:53 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> anyway - I don't care enough about the whole drama to spend more time arguing, ofrn is helpful, I like him, but I have code to write so.. it's better for somebody else to continue arguing, have fun guys
09:15:57 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Or if ofrnxmr felt harassed, then I would give a warning
09:16:04 <midipoet> It's a terrible look for the predominant funding platform of Monero
09:16:32 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> have a good day
09:16:46 <jwinterm> I think for me maybe the issue is that the CCS is so closely aligned with "Monero Core" (although I don't think whatever the fuck monero core is has actually been made public), and I agree you need gatekeeping and rules for a fundraising envirmonment
09:16:54 <midipoet> Don't forget that issues with the CCS process, harassment, and incessant prodding distinctly turned researchers away from the CCS
09:17:09 <jwinterm> but it's a really bad look to have the CEO of Monero telling people they're banned from raising funds cause they hurt someone's feelings in a chat
09:17:16 <jwinterm> and that's what it looks like
09:17:20 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> freeofrn now
09:17:38 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> ofrn banned again? what happen this shit coin shitty gone to 0 because of this
09:17:45 <jwinterm> F
09:18:06 <midipoet> jwinterm: nobody told anybody they are banned from proposing a CCS
09:18:07 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> .bbl dumping all my XMR for XRP
09:18:14 <jwinterm> I didn't say that midipoet
09:18:20 <jwinterm> I said that's what it looks like 
09:18:27 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Behavior like this should be banned on sight. I agree with banning trolls as you mentioned @syntheticbird:monero.social in the guidelines
09:18:56 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> fuck off you troll. you ruin xmr bullshitter. ofrn is not liar ofrn is savior for xmr. you should get banned. fuck guideline scammer
09:19:39 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> see thankyouluigi. If everything was under my rules. I would simply give a warning
09:19:41 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> Can we get a podcast with voice actors that read messages in here?
09:19:48 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> another one lol
09:19:59 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lmao that would be epic
09:20:22 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Opened an issue related to CCS. Share your thoughts on what rules should the CCS respect: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-community-guideline/issues/2
09:20:48 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> what the fuck this bullshit huh
09:21:10 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Can anyone make a post on reddit about the repo ? My account is still banned
09:21:20 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> Some suggestions regarding Core Crowdfunding System I think
09:21:21 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I need as much opinions as possible
09:21:24 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> thankyouluigi i know who youre identity is. why you hide behind your account sock puppet scammer
09:21:58 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> If I was admin here I sure would shoot down any such brand-new nonsense propaganda username at sight. That truly is a new low for the discussion here.
09:22:00 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> erc you fucking scammer
09:22:08 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> stop hiding behind accounts
09:22:18 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> and syntheticbird has literal transphobic jokes in their github and for mysterious reasons got their reddit banned :P
09:22:34 <plowsof> It would be best to lock the thread(?) after its ran its course / both sides are happy that enough feedback / points has been raised. A statement / round up of the sentiment be made (as it seems the supporters are requesting changes even)
09:22:45 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ? didn't knew helicopter/attack could be taken so seriously
09:22:48 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> popaganda? im scared for xmr. we have erc with his alt here fucking lying about ofrn scammer
09:23:06 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> erc you scammer
09:23:54 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> i dont but a good chunk of good devs are trans
09:24:13 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> come on, are we really going woke?
09:24:22 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> you cant be the one to set up a no-toxicity CoC and than have transphobic jokes in your bio
09:24:30 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> xmr is gone
09:24:32 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> you cant be the one to set up a no-toxicity CoC and then have transphobic jokes in your bio
09:24:54 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> whatever makes you feel proud ig. And I was banned because I'm using Tor. Sorry if your deduction is wrong
09:24:58 <jwinterm> you can't tell him what to do monerobull :P
09:25:01 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> A psychology/psychiatric hospital would have so much fun going through the backlog of this channel and the CCS repository comments of all proposals to date.
09:25:02 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> read ofrn twitter. all woke. CoC = cock all xmr dev like cock in there ass scammer lying faggot
09:25:30 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> how is thankyouluigi allowed here but ofrn banned? thankyouluigi IS FUCKING ERC cant believe here
09:25:47 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I guess you raise a fair point I'll remove this pronouns.
09:26:02 <plowsof> We are now in the age of - join a random community - wait 10 mins to see if theres any drama - sift through the topic at hand - learn what both sides are complaining about - create aliases to join in on both sides of the argument
09:26:14 <ComplyLast> I guess the biggest question is why is jwinterm not banned tbh
09:26:21 <jwinterm> :0
09:26:42 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> charuto plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org 🎯🛠
09:26:44 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> #freeofrn
09:27:08 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yeah I would ban also
09:27:23 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no effort at all from monerodeadgone
09:27:28 <plowsof> Monerodeadgone.can you stop? We know
09:27:30 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> plz ban thankyouluigi
09:27:33 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> has been sending at least 3 trolling message
09:27:38 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> I did not expect this much drama in the community
09:27:38 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> HOW U BAN ME BUT NOT ERC ALT FUCK YOU
09:27:57 <jwinterm> welcome to crypto shkeezy
09:28:02 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> you must be new here
09:28:05 <plowsof> The loudest noise is now you, just stop
09:28:14 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> happened because ofrnxmr is influencial
09:28:19 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> but controversial
09:28:24 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> somewhat
09:29:15 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> @ofrnxmr k but why not ban thankyouluigi he is FUCKING ERC
09:29:18 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> we do a lil bit of drama from time to time to keep things interesting
09:29:31 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> erc?
09:29:32 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> manipulator he manipulate votes on ccs and try to get ofrn banned forever fucker
09:29:55 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> A lil bit?
09:30:05 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> that was its own drama arc
09:30:10 <ComplyLast> fuck, why are they doing this to ofrn?
09:30:17 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> ofrn criticuqe erc who was before dev of haveno. erc hate ofrn and now he make alts sock puppet to get ofrn banned
09:30:41 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> How dare we do this to our lord and savior support guru ofrnxmr!?
09:30:44 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Just you see thumbs reaction don't mean there are votes in CCS.
09:30:58 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> CCS has always been accepted by core team discretion
09:31:06 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Why are we being over dramatic about this. It's getting beyond ridiculous
09:31:40 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Proposal should be merged, insta funded and he should join core immediately thereafter. Accompanied with a community letter as an apology!
09:31:42 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> other notable arcs are the secretary arc, the mb vs spirobel arc, the FCMP arc, etc
09:31:45 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> ofrnxmr is Jesus Christ! Praise our lord!
09:31:47 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> fuck you. why you support erc alt
09:31:48 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Ok I'll stop
09:31:52 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> monerodeadgone go rub one off bb.
09:32:01 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> thankyouluigi respond to me pussy ass fucker
09:32:09 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> erc you pussy respond to me
09:32:26 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Will plowsof ever kick/ban anybody?
09:32:34 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I advise muting this person. I'm having a brief read on monerologs and they are delusional
09:32:37 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I'm surprised they are not banned yet
09:32:52 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> YOU NEED BAN ERC YOUR ALT SOCK PUPPET SCAMMER
09:32:53 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> secretary arc was spicy, i also want a 7k/month paycheck straight from jet-fund
09:33:10 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> talks like ofrnxmr
09:33:27 <midipoet> this channel is now worse than #monero
09:33:32 <midipoet> That's a new low 
09:33:33 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Took you this long to figure that one out?
09:33:37 <midipoet> Lol
09:33:58 <midipoet> I think i was in denial
09:34:00 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> faggot im not ofrnxmr he is better than me he is a genius. ofrnxmr is the savior
09:34:01 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> password length limits are so cringe
09:34:02 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> its not
09:34:13 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> lolllll. ofrn, you should stop it.
09:34:27 <jwinterm> monerobull, you are missing important early storyline arcs like bitcoinexpress attack, risto cryptokingdom game, and fluffy marketing/trolling (and also that weird music CCS thing for half million bucks)
09:34:46 <midipoet> Project Coral Reef
09:34:52 <jwinterm> yep
09:34:52 <midipoet> And anonimal thingy
09:34:58 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> tesla ccs
09:34:59 <jwinterm> ohya good old anonimal
09:35:00 <midipoet> Though he did buy us all lunch
09:35:03 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> fuck you bitches
09:35:04 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> you vote against ofrn. he has wages to pay. cant pay minimum wage pussy?
09:35:05 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> fluffygate big amnoucnement
09:35:05 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> excatly, I want to use my 4GB keyfile and facebook login form won't let me :<
09:35:11 <ComplyLast> fuck we need more storyline arcs tbh
09:35:17 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> i still have a folder with obscure monero stuff
09:35:18 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Are you sure? Who would act like this? I don't even see supporters on the CCS defending ofrn this much
09:35:28 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> 4gb is insane
09:35:38 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> ERC YOU SCAMMER REPLY TO ME IN DM
09:35:49 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> im pretty sure its not ofrn
09:35:54 <midipoet> I remember the time we all went for Ceaser's Palace buffet and ate crab claws till we felt sick. Those were good times. 
09:36:21 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> its him doing a dumb ESL larp
09:36:25 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/EYZryNabEabuoURLAyQNBZcl
09:36:31 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> grow up baka
09:36:41 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> Damn
09:36:42 <midipoet> Now, we are writing our (third or fourth?!) CoC. 
09:36:44 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> that time when fortnite accepted monero (and only monero)
09:36:49 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> IM NOT FUCKING OFRN
09:37:06 <ComplyLast> you are not?
09:37:09 <ComplyLast> that's disappointed
09:37:12 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> whatever dood
09:37:14 <ComplyLast> I was actually rooting for you
09:37:20 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> no ofrn has lot of supporter
09:37:29 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/CiNBeDXlBjfwoIXSMnnZJUXB
09:37:29 <ComplyLast> I'm one, ofc
09:37:30 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> hehe
09:37:44 <ComplyLast> *disappointing 
09:37:46 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> I'm playing fortnite now I guess
09:37:58 <ComplyLast> proper cypherpunk game, respect
09:38:14 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Holy shit, this chat can go silent for days. What did you all throw in the coffee today?
09:38:19 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Drama sells.
09:38:47 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> sad reality
09:38:49 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> rotten why you vote against ofrn
09:38:50 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> huh why you vote against him
09:38:55 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> i support the idea of having this chat on mute except for CCS meeting
09:38:56 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> thrmo simping for ofrn, I didn't have that in my bingo card.
09:39:01 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I believe Fortnite said this was a "mistake" a couple days later. How odd
09:39:15 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> ERC YOU FUCKER
09:39:49 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah but still fun
09:40:22 <jwinterm> I didn't realize globee went out of business
09:40:44 <ComplyLast> rottenwheel I'm really not, but here's where all the action is, so I might as well partake on it
09:41:40 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> oh no how are we going to onboard mariah carey superfans now
09:41:43 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> How do you do this by mistake
09:41:58 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I also support the idea
09:42:14 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Let's mute this channel until next meeting saturday
09:42:23 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> It was a while back but I remember Fortnite mentioned that a third party added the Monero payment method by accident. It's a weird story
09:43:17 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Not sure how you add a whole payment system, Monero specifically, on accident
09:43:42 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> honestly I'm leaving this room, I'll join back on saturday, don't have time for people arguing over nonsense.
09:43:43 <jwinterm> I think they were using some third party provider like nowpayments or something and they enabled it or something
09:44:23 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> ❄️
09:44:39 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> jwinterm how many likes and something and I guess you say per day?
09:44:41 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> 😂
09:45:09 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> fuck you pussy
09:46:35 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I'm being bombarded with private messages from this troll harassing me. @plowsof:libera.chat can you issue a ban please?
09:46:49 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> bitch fucker
09:47:06 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I think plowsof is away
09:47:10 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> erc you slimy slimy scammer. you got kicked out for reason get the fuck out of here go work on firo bitch ass
09:47:23 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> let monerodeadgone go crazy in the chat. That will be easier to screenshot
09:47:26 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> How unfortunate
09:48:43 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> fuck you
09:50:31 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> can you insult more creatively
09:50:53 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> fuck you sgp BITCH
09:51:17 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> sgp?
09:51:19 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> sgp_: pussy why you using an alt fucker
09:52:56 <dEBRUYNE> This shouldn't have been merged without some discussion -> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-community-guideline
09:53:06 <dEBRUYNE> I think it should be reverted, or hosted on a separate repo
09:53:38 <m-relay> <s​hkeezy:matrix.org> do the members of the monero community that don't like each other often see each other at events?
09:54:06 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I would prefer like that but would you mind telling why ?
09:54:08 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I personally think it should be done in a separate repo. Once the guidelines are in order (correct spelling and a more accurate description of rules) we can merge it into the main repo
09:54:14 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I would prefer like it isbut would you mind telling why ?
09:55:03 <jwinterm> I agree with dEBRUYNE, it is pretty poorly written, and it seems like there is no "pseudo-consensus" or whatever other bs buzzwords were mentioned in the poorly written document itself before it was created
09:55:33 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I understand the idea that whatever is under monero-project organization is part of the monero project. But if the readme state is under work and will be proposed. It isn't carved into rock here. It can even fail. Luigi reasoning was that if it concerns the monero-project then it should be under monero-project orga
09:55:35 <jwinterm> I saw the repo, but I just now realized it is hosted on the "official" repositories
09:55:50 * plowsof waits for matrix to load
09:55:54 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> It's a rough sketch you wrote at 3am. Kayaba made a gist for FCMP for example and it wasn't merged into the Monero repo. Neither should this until it's fully fleshed out
09:57:10 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Tbc, there is nothing yet. And I asked yesterday if people were against, no one told me they weren't. Some said they were interested. I took the opportunity to open it.
09:57:14 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> how isnt this community more angry about ofrn
09:57:25 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> these shitty mods banned ofrn for no reason. all liars
09:57:30 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I plan on improving the Readme
09:57:37 <m-relay> <m​onerodeadgone:hackliberty.org> FUCKING ALLOW SGP/ERC ALT ON BUT
09:57:52 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> I was on your side until you went full troll mode
09:58:07 <ComplyLast> tbh I like the vibes you gave to it syntheticbird, trying to appeal to the younger crowd, trying to appeal to spiritual crowd, it's good, keep up the good work.
09:59:21 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'll try my best.
09:59:22 <dEBRUYNE> SyntheticBird: Most people aren't online permanently and therefore not everyone can comment within, say, 12h
09:59:27 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Hallelujah!
09:59:34 <dEBRUYNE> This should have been discussed for at least a couple of days, even a week
09:59:47 <jwinterm> or..maybe...like at a meeting or something?
09:59:56 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> fair point. I'll wait the meeting
10:00:08 <dEBRUYNE> People evidently value the repository, but it arguably shouldn't be hosted on the official repository
10:00:28 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> I understand that you will improve it and I respect your contributions but I didn't even realize that this was merged until now. No mention of this was publicized anywhere else either
10:00:30 <dEBRUYNE> Community is also subjective, in the sense that parts of the community have differnet ideals
10:00:36 <dEBRUYNE> So difficult to impose a general rule on them
10:01:17 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> That's why I encourage everyone to say their ideas. Ofc it is difficult but I think it is possible
10:01:33 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Not really. I think we can all agree to banning trolls and other rules that need to be imposed
10:02:02 <m-relay> <k​eepofrnbanned:bitcoinist.org> Also, rules for moderation like how long someone should be banned for and how many strikes should be given are also helpful to have
10:02:20 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I opened a second issue for moderation
10:02:26 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> if you want to write out ideas
10:02:50 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> for me, except for trolling, definitive ban shouldn't be allowed
10:04:01 <jwinterm> trolling is part of my religion tho
10:04:35 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> Keepofrnxmrbanned i appreciate your renaming matrix side but it does not carry to irc. That is inflammatory so realistically you have to make a new alt
10:05:42 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> It’s sad that supposedly smart people keep feeding into it
10:06:41 <ComplyLast> I'm not sure I would call them necessarily smart though
10:07:16 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I don't see how why we would be smarter than average?
10:10:22 <plowsof> Keepofrnxmrbanned i appreciate your renaming matrix side but it does not carry to irc. That is inflammatory so realistically you have to make a new alt   
10:11:13 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Ban them
10:12:53 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> A dictatorship would be better than this drama everyday
10:23:22 <jwinterm> pretty sure we already have a dictatorship no?
10:57:48 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> Wow, this blissfull quiet. No message for half an hour already.
11:00:28 <m-relay> <d​ave.jp:matrix.org> How’s the cheap fees working out
11:01:05 <ComplyLast> rbrunner7 let's get it going again?
11:01:17 <ComplyLast> I'm pretty sure you're a sockpuppet for jwinterm 
11:02:18 <rbrunner> That's an interesting theory.
11:02:56 <ComplyLast> now we start crying for bans
11:03:02 <ComplyLast> we insult each other for 2 hours
11:03:07 <ComplyLast> and then we stop, right?
11:03:38 <rbrunner> I guess many participants sit in the Americas somewhere and simply went to sleep.
11:05:37 <ComplyLast> sad
11:06:40 <rbrunner> You'd prefer 24h fights? :)
11:07:27 <ComplyLast> offc
11:13:43 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> who can reset getmonero gitlab signup requests
11:19:04 <plowsof> What would that do r4v3r23? Is there an issue / too many? (I know manual approval has to happen when emails get dropped)
11:19:47 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> i signed up with an email i cant access
11:21:57 <plowsof> Oh, we can get you approved manually then no worries , What is the username?
11:22:14 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> ANONERO
11:24:23 <plowsof> Ack 
11:26:03 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> can you change my email too
11:30:20 <plowsof> After anonero is added i think its possible in the settings.. lets wait for approvak
11:32:27 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> how long will that take?
11:45:25 <nioCat> good morning!
11:45:35 <nioCat> what's new guys?
11:46:17 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> moar spam apparently
11:47:32 <nioCat> I was served that to eat when I was a kid  :(
11:49:42 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> who in charge of gitlab? there spam account by fucking sgp/erc alt all attack innocent ofrn:
11:49:43 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/ofrnscammer
11:49:44 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/ofrnbanned
11:49:45 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/ofrnnoo
11:49:46 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/ofrnnooo
11:49:47 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/AnonymousOfrnxmrHater
11:49:48 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/cancelofrn
11:49:49 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/banofrn
11:49:50 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> all acc list are fucking fakers. im not ofrn but this for ofrn ccs
11:50:05 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Yeah
11:50:09 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Mods dont care
11:50:13 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> all dislike and comment potential fake
11:50:33 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> look here 15 dislikes almost all fake
11:50:33 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/444
11:52:21 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> if you think fake accounts have the same influence than known members of the community or monero contributors you're deeply mistaken, the CCS does not work like a democracy.
11:52:35 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> if you think fake accounts have the same influence as known members of the community or monero contributors you're deeply mistaken, the CCS does not work like a democracy.
11:52:44 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> good because sgp fucker try to get in many vote
11:53:28 <nioCat> you sure of that?  lol
11:54:05 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> no mods ban fake fucking luigi acc until i come to expose the pussy faggot
11:54:19 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> many prominent community members are against the proposal, not just sgp, i don't know why you assume it's him, it could be me, you know?
11:54:19 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> sgp control that acc that why
11:54:23 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> stop with the insults. only warning.
11:55:09 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> no not u
11:55:13 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> i know it sgp
11:55:27 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> ofrn told me
11:55:47 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> its a conspiracy franco
11:56:27 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> not it not. how that fucker allowed to have account against my name and then i not me but ofrn and defender of ofrn get ban instant
11:57:09 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> i know spg was a petty tyrannt, but isnt she gone?
11:57:31 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> look at ofrn ccs
11:57:39 <m-relay> <m​onerogoingto1million:hackliberty.org> sgp
11:58:53 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> So i assume you banned banofrnxmr too for trolling and spread fud
11:59:18 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Being equal and all
12:07:34 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> he was banned
12:15:39 <dEBRUYNE> charutocafe: I don't see much opposition against ofrnxmr receiving funding to work on Monero, most of the oppisition seems to be geared at the specifics of the proposal
12:16:19 <m-relay> <d​ave.jp:matrix.org> She ?
12:16:38 <m-relay> <j​oiboi.crypto:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/TQHXXHlpZVmhIwlsBujuVOnv
12:27:54 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> Let's solve the issue of some guy breaking rules by creating more rules!
12:27:55 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> Note that ofrn never ever treated newcomers badly, he only lashes out against people who hold key community roles and/or get paid by us. He does so only when he believes that they did not fulfill their duty. Most of the time I agree with his acessment.
12:27:56 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> Therefore I'd argue a CoC is not about creating "a welcoming environment for everyone", rather about keeping it comfy for those being criticized. Fuck that.
12:27:57 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> You need a padded room with all sharp words removed? Fine, make your own, appoint your own mods, make it invite only, whatever. A decentralized open community *needs* a town square. Dont wanna here it? Nobody forces you to come. We used to have a room for that Monero Beef , but recently if was cucked to be "nice words only", and then people wonder why complains surface like the ofrn CCS.
12:28:33 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> Matrix ate the formatting, sry
12:29:08 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> Let's solve the issue of some guy breaking rules by creating more rules! /s
12:29:09 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> Note that ofrn never ever treated newcomers badly, he only lashes out against people who hold key community roles and/or get paid by us. He does so only when he believes that they did not fulfill their duty. Most of the time I agree with his acessment.
12:29:10 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> Therefore I'd argue a CoC is not about creating "a welcoming environment for everyone", rather about keeping it comfy for those being criticized. Fuck that.
12:29:11 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> You need a padded room with all sharp words removed? Fine, make your own, appoint your own mods, make it invite only, whatever. A decentralized open community needs a town square. Dont wanna here it? Nobody forces you to come. We used to have a room for that (# monero beef) , but recently if was cucked to be "nice words only", and then people wonder why complains surface like the ofrn CCS.
12:31:18 <m-relay> <a​nxietyinducing:matrix.org> so cash by mail is now the only somewhat anonymous option? and you use gloves then? haha
12:41:05 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> I agree with ofrn on many topics however I can't deny that sometimes he degrades the quality of discussions. It would be great if he stopped sending 10-20 messages of single line slurs tbh.
12:42:36 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> dEBRUYNE: for the most part, yes. kayaba and sgp seem to be against most of the proposal. others like ct or mb seem to be against the specifics.
12:46:24 <nioCat> ceetee it seems that monero-beef was set up for devs to discuss their technical beefs lol
12:46:53 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> devwarzzzz
12:47:02 <nioCat> that's the excuse to bam ofrn from there  
12:48:08 <nioCat> meanwhile in the past people were invited to go there by the channels creator with their beefs so as not to spam the other channels
12:48:29 <nioCat> make monero-beef great again!!!!
12:49:35 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Basically scott invited banhammer to beef and then ruck left room
12:49:54 <nioCat> I remember when ofrn used to try to keep this channel ontopic      lololololol
12:52:34 <nioCat> monero's tenth birthday is coming up on the 18th at 10:49:53 UTC
12:53:25 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > Therefore I'd argue a CoC is not about creating "a welcoming environment for everyone", rather about keeping it comfy for those being criticized. Fuck that.
12:53:26 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> This repository isn't a simple CoC. Stop simplifying it as such. If you really agree with ofrnxmr on the fact that some don't fulfill their duty. This repo is the occasion for you to raise your voice. This is an opportunity to harden or alleviate the CCS rules as well. To redefine what the community expect from workgroup.
12:53:27 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> This guideline isn't just a moderation rule document. There is so much to discuss, yet everyone is complaining but don't dare take the opportunity to share it correctly
12:54:47 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> That you agree or disagree with me. I don't care, please just share it in details. I want to work with everyone opinion, even ofrnxmr one.
12:56:24 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> oh thats cool
13:07:27 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> monerobull:  Can you approve my comment?: https://reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1c24xn4/massive_spam_attack_on_the_monero_network_underway/kz85duj/  or dEBRUYNE
13:19:26 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> the issue is not something extra rules will solve
13:19:38 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> therefore I reject your entire premise
13:20:15 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> how talked about extra rules ?
13:20:34 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> again stop prejudging the entire thing
13:20:36 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> >The moderators will always, except for trolling, discuss what sanction is appropriate.
13:20:38 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> lol
13:20:47 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> These are rules for the repository
13:20:50 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> not the guideline
13:21:00 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> that has worked great so far
13:21:49 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> approved
13:22:12 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> stupid fucking matrix
13:22:18 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> only got that message now
13:22:39 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> If one was to conduct a multi modal attack on Monero spanning a few months, this is sort of how it would look: 1. Steal funds from GF, 2. Reg pressure, 3. BM/Spam attack, 4. Disruptive actors attempting reputation attacks in community, 5. Split social channels to disrupt communication. The only thing that is missing is predominant devs GitHub accounts' getting hacked/deleted/suspended.
13:22:40 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> you doing 2. and 5.
13:23:16 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> monerobull:  Thank you!
13:24:03 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you're doing 3 and 5
13:24:11 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ig we're both bad actors
13:24:33 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> sure i do black marble...
13:24:48 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > Spam attack
13:24:56 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> or maybe I shouldn't have read the slash
13:25:48 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> yes like every government blame X event and introduce Y bad rule
13:26:25 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes like every everyone blame ofrnxmr and introduce number of bans on their supporters. You're not more right than anyone else
13:26:29 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> no they fucking didnt @banofrnxmr:bitcoinist.org still here
13:28:00 <plowsof> Keepofrnxmrbanned was removed 
13:28:20 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> plowsof can you pls read my msg i sent you on matrix
13:29:17 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> introduce these rule wont work. why? because someone will always have problem then you going to add more rule and more rule until this chat and other become like r/bitcoin. nothing here other than NGU price talk and retardation
13:29:40 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > because someone will always have problem then you going to add more rule and more rule
13:29:40 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> touch grass
13:29:41 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> there something called ignore/mute button. dont like use it
13:29:43 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > because someone will always have problem then you going to add more rule and more rule
13:29:43 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> touch grass
13:29:46 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> no need for dumbass guideline
13:29:54 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> go learn to spell
13:30:03 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> embarassing
13:30:29 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> go on kym. you're cringe
13:32:22 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
13:32:29 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> you say it better than me
13:34:47 <nioCat> I have never used an ignore/mute button 
13:36:56 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> This is not correct. It's not imposing rules on everyone who uses Monero. It only imposes guidelines on how to moderate mediums that are part of "official" infrastructure. People like ofrn can make their own servers and try to build their own communities elsewhere, that's fine and unavoidable (and arguably healthy)
13:37:07 <m-relay> <k​jeks:matrix.org> Srry real noob question. I don't understand why on those 'attacks' they made 1 input 2 output, but why does it matter? isn't the block suppose to merge a bunch of transactions together? Like mixing a lot of inputs from many users?
13:37:23 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> so sgp why you launch a sybil attack against ofrn huh?
13:37:35 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> your new project for moonstone research to fuck up ofrn for no reason?
13:38:31 <m-relay> <d​ave.jp:matrix.org> If it’s a single entity doing spam, effective ringsize drops a lot.
13:38:40 <plowsof> At least 1 dev has left this channel because of the influx of messages / drama on the same topic 
13:38:56 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> kjeks: Each input in a transaction has 16 ring members in its ring signature. If a tx is 1in/2out, there is one ring with 16 ring members. If the tx is 2in/2out, there are two separate rings with 16 ring members each. A total of 32 ring members. Same with 3in, 4in, etc.
13:39:17 <m-relay> <k​jeks:matrix.org> dave.jp: yea but why 'spam'? they wont just be pilled in the next block all together?
13:39:33 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> Then do your job (along with luigi) and moderate the room
13:39:56 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> Get past the "theory of moderating" circular discussion and do something
13:40:02 <m-relay> <d​ave.jp:matrix.org> No, block size doesn’t grown like that ; also spam = reducing privacy of other users
13:40:10 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> you slimy bastard
13:40:30 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> plowsof and luigi doing a good job. they already banned but we keep coming
13:40:43 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> because we fighting against your alts fucking up ofrn
13:41:48 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> I haven't made a single alt and yet here you are saying you're ban evading with an alt. C'mon, enough with this nonsense. Ban and let the community room move on. It's not hard
13:42:08 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> so who is botting ofrn ccs?
13:42:20 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> and why you sound exactly the same as other alts who target ofrn?
13:42:46 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lmao that must be the most subjective attack I've ever seen
13:43:26 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> "Please stop this nonsense. Me expressing my opinion on current drama is not hate speech. ofrn's rants are however"
13:43:47 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> Everyone defending ofrn seems to think that using insulting slurs on a regular basis is appropriate, which I can't get behind at all
13:43:58 <plowsof> Yes, it would be nice if we could all take a step back (if this is not malicious) and keep it mainly to gitlab, it seems that everything? Has been said now. Votes on the ccs are not equally weighted (this might upset some) but a number / emoji isnt going to get a proposal merged/closed 
13:44:04 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> keep dodging questions
13:44:22 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> im not going to use a single slur for my next accusations
13:45:12 <SyntheticBird> I'll stop for the day, I'll wait for the meeting. sgp I advise you to do the same, not that you're wrong but we can let monero1million speak whenever we wants just below
13:45:24 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> 1) someone is 100% botting ofrn's ccs. look at the like/dislike ratio and the users. almost all dislikes are from accounts created today or very recently.
13:45:25 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> 2) many alts have joined after ofrn's ccs and THEY HAVEN'T been banned until today when they got exposed. almost like they have influence like you sgp. ofrn supporters got banned quicker
13:45:55 <plowsof> Its entirely possible that all of the alt accounts are myself, theres no point in making accusations or getting worked up over alts 
13:46:35 <plowsof> Botting doesnt work (to get merged or to close)
13:46:46 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> when theyre are alts targeting someone saying keep them banned and ban them and cancel them hard to not get worked up
13:47:02 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> and spreading lies/rumors
13:47:20 <plowsof> Keepofrnbanned was warned/told to make a new account (that user did change his name on matrix side and seems polite/calm)
13:48:06 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> yes but where did they go? gone after sgp appeared?
13:48:15 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> deactivate their account after sgp appear
13:48:30 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> ill let ofrn expose the rest on twitter
13:49:03 <m-relay> <p​ointoffailure:monero.social> Why do you guys have CoC and mods when both matrix and IRC support ignoring by nickname?
13:53:38 <midipoet> plowsof: to be honest, i don't think that ofrnxmr has the correct temperament or the correct communication skills for the role they are proposing in the CCS. I also think it's absolutely bonkers to even consider merging a CCS when the proposer doesn't seem able to maintain an attitude and demeanor that doesn't get him banned from community channels. However, i don't want to let my personal judge of character hold all of 
13:53:38 <midipoet> you people making a decision on what you think is best for the Monero project and its community. 
13:54:08 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> midipoet have u ever thought why ofrn act like this?
13:54:24 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> when you getting attacked by bad actors in the community 24/7 hard to act kind all the time
13:54:29 <midipoet> cause he is a bit bat shit crazy?
13:54:51 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> ofrn only acts like this not to newcomer but to the guys who are targeting and censoring him
13:55:07 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> generalizing his behavior doesnt help
13:56:20 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> imagine someone on matrix, gitlab and twitter create alt accounts saying keep MIDIPOET banned, MIDIPOET is a scammer, MIDIPOET is exit scamming
13:56:27 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> how would you act? say I love oyu ot these people?
13:56:53 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> People like SGP can make their own servers and try to build their own communities elsewhere, thats fine and unavoidable (and arguably healthy)
13:56:57 <plowsof> Ack midipoet thanks 
13:57:01 <m-relay> <k​jeks:matrix.org> Why not just excluding the possibility of mordinals? monero is supposed to be fungible, not NFT
13:57:29 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> ofrn is just being targetted because he say what he think.
13:57:30 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> While being one of the most helpful person here (free 24/7 support)
13:57:31 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Then now we get a CoC wtf
13:57:32 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> I usually dump everything that have a CoC... Should I?
13:58:15 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> its very dangerous time now. monero is getting attacked from everywhere. delisting, chain attack with spam, attack against community member and more
13:58:25 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> CoC… Clash of Clans?
13:58:26 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> probably stay we have to defend no matter what
13:58:30 <plowsof> To be fair, the getmonero forum has had a CoC . Thats as close to a 'monero project' CoC as you can get 
13:58:33 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> code of conduct
13:58:34 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Attacked from inside and out yeah
13:58:58 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> this room looks like a shit show
13:59:16 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> I did not read the full buffer, I think it never been that long lol
13:59:20 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> I will say that there is definitely an ongoing social engineering attack against Monero. At least on the Reddit
13:59:38 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> haha the reddit is nothing compared to what happening to ofrn
13:59:41 <midipoet> ctrej: wasnt monero.social just that? And actually, so was this channel?!
13:59:49 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> As for Ofnr, idk. He alts so much I wouldn’t even be surprised if monero1mollion is an alt
13:59:53 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> All new accounts should not be trusted
14:00:01 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> I doubt it is just limited to the Reddit
14:00:14 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> on both sides of the argument
14:00:16 <midipoet> as far as i remember sgp, diego, needmoney and xmrscott started both
14:00:27 <midipoet> could be wrong though!
14:00:32 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> Anyways I gotta enter my Faraday cage I’ll see y’all in a few hours
14:00:37 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> it's sad that people cannot realize when they're being trolled and that ignoring is the best response
14:00:38 <plowsof> Monero community is the brain child of sgp iirc 
14:01:19 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> entities opposing monero benefit from our internal struggles and if I were them I'd try to pour as much oil into the fire as I can
14:01:19 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/ofrnscammer
14:01:20 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/ofrnbanned
14:01:21 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/ofrnnoo
14:01:22 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/ofrnnooo
14:01:23 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/AnonymousOfrnxmrHater
14:01:24 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/cancelofrn
14:01:25 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/banofrn
14:01:26 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> yes this trolling and not sybil attack
14:01:31 <midipoet> preland: yeah, i agree. Has been going on a while
14:01:54 <midipoet> Basically disruptive actors that have engineered a split in the community 
14:02:10 <midipoet> It's quite clever really 
14:02:13 <plowsof> "sybil attacks" are ignored, no need to get worked up / spam them here. Please assume corr have brain cells 
14:02:20 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> can't tell if sarcastic or not
14:02:21 <plowsof> Core
14:02:35 <m-relay> <d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Useless ids, which can be ignored if you are smart
14:02:54 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> plowsof just showing aremor that this not trolling but someone attempting to destroy ofrn's identity
14:03:09 <m-relay> <d​iego:cypherstack.com> Incorrect plowsof. It was mine
14:03:12 <m-relay> <d​ave.jp:matrix.org> “Monero community” ??
14:03:36 <m-relay> <d​iego:cypherstack.com> The story goes in the following way:
14:03:56 <plowsof> Monero community was diego rehrars brain child* 
14:04:01 <m-relay> <d​iego:cypherstack.com> I just joined and wanted to help. Made Monero Marketing. Did some stuff with it. People didn't like marketing and got cranky.
14:04:44 <m-relay> <d​iego:cypherstack.com> Decided to change it to Community. Talked with sgp who was helping a bit with my marketing thing. He said he'd be interested. He joined me for Community launch. So we're co-creators of Community.
14:04:59 <m-relay> <d​iego:cypherstack.com> But my brain child
14:06:54 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> yes like US government brainchild of TOR and other invention. brainchild = backdoor
14:07:52 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> nah Diego is alright
14:08:02 <plowsof> Offtopic^ lol thanks for clarifying diego
14:08:11 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> yes I like diego
14:08:25 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> cypherstack lovely group but i dont like alphabet agency
14:08:29 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> alphabet name
14:08:43 <plowsof> Numbers only 
14:09:10 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Don't want to stir up anything but just saying...this new community guideline on the main Monero Github is horrible. Who wrote that and who decided to green light it? It's as if no one proof-read it?? Full of obvious typos and badly written english.
14:09:11 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> This is really not a good look, and besides, does Monero REALLY need to push this on the main repo. Individual Monero communities should make their own guidelines, this seems like an attempt to centralize the discourse moderation when in reality, Monero's strength is its decentralized and fragmented community.
14:09:29 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> its not greenlit
14:09:30 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> pls pls read the backlog many conversation about this
14:09:48 <plowsof> I thought Cryptogrampt had returned 
14:10:03 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> my message been censored and deleted so if you want full history
14:10:06 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Okay will do, just saw that before I went to sleep and couldn't believe
14:10:14 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> read on https://libera.monerologs.net
14:10:37 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> the mods of this room need to take control of the situation.  there is no reason this room should be disrupted like this every single single day.  if someone breaks the rules, deal with them, and that's the last word.   anyone bitching about it can be banned too.  stop this non-sense bickering every day.  lay the law down, or will this will never end.  @plowof, @luigi, @xmrscott, @sgp_
14:10:40 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> IRC always best place to read unaltered logs indeed, will check on mine too
14:10:42 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> SyntheticBird: you remember when I left like 6 hours ago, are they going like this non-stop?
14:11:41 <luigi1111w> the repo is deleted. SyntheticBird can continue his efforts in the original repo if wanted and if it gets to a good state we can look at it again
14:12:20 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> this not disruption if you bother to read backlog it was lots of discussion
14:12:39 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> backlog very long
14:13:50 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> yes
14:14:00 <plowsof> We need a family therapist 
14:14:05 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> Damn
14:14:39 <dEBRUYNE> Thanks luigi1111w!
14:14:51 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> It's me and you're right to notify that. I wrote the readme at 3 am. Planned on improving it later
14:17:35 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> Repo is under my username again. If you want to give ideas, proposal or just insult you can go in the discussion section
14:18:08 <luigi1111w> nioCat> monero's tenth birthday is coming up on the 18th at 10:49:53 UTC <= someone should organize something wow
14:21:28 <midipoet> how about a combined CoC Grand Super Huge Launch Party and a 10th Anniversary party all rolled into one? Cmon you know it's a good idea. We could even get some of those inflatable suit thingies and a ring, and we could bring -beef to real life, sumo style. 
14:25:13 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> There are a couple of people trying to open new Matrix DMs with me. When I try to join the DMs I see `MatrixError: [502] Failed to make_join via any server`. I am not ignoring you FWIW. You can DM me on Libera Chat IRC, but remember that IRC DMs are not e2e encrypted by default.
14:26:23 <plowsof> Synthetic birds CoC and chatgpt proposal, never forget :D
14:40:09 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Alright sounds good, having it under the Monero repo made it look officially released.
14:40:10 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> My opinion is that we shouldn't really need a CoC besides "no spam". That's it.
14:40:11 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Any language about "hate speech" is a slippery slope. CoC guidelines are often abused by power hungry moderators in the vast majority of online communities. This would open a pandora's box and vector to neuter the community's freedom of speech.
14:40:12 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Don't forget that moderation jobs and anything that gives a bit of power attracts leeches.
14:40:13 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Just my two cents, which is worth what you make of it.
14:41:19 <dEBRUYNE> CryptoGuard: I agree with a kind of laissez-faire approach, as long as there is no spam and it is kept civil
14:42:06 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> I'll try to address that concern
14:45:43 <nioCat> does kept civil mean no hate
14:47:22 <nioCat> if someone perseverates is that considered spam
14:47:58 <nioCat> please forgive me  lol
14:49:23 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> is that direct tot me niocat
14:49:47 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Alright sounds good, having it under the Monero repo made it look officially released.
14:49:48 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> My opinion is that we shouldn't really need a CoC besides "no spam". That's it.
14:49:49 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Any language about "hate speech" is a slippery slope. CoC guidelines are often abused by power hungry moderators in the vast majority of online communities. This would open a pandora's box and vector to neuter the community's freedom of speech.
14:49:50 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Don't forget that moderation jobs and anything that gives a bit of power attracts leeches.
14:49:51 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Just my two cents, which is worth what you make of it.
14:49:52 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Note: Not saying current mod team are leeches, let's make that clear lol
14:50:19 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> i think perseverance if for a good cause not consider spam but if for something bad like shilling scam crypto then bad
14:50:23 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> but up to mod to decide
14:51:11 <nioCat> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> is that direct tot me niocat <>lose context much?
14:51:24 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Exactly, "no spam" is a good filter because it lets people express themselves. But people start harrassing others, it almost always takes the form of spam anyway.
14:51:27 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> current mod team very fair. leeches you describe good example is any reddit community. introduce coc and we become echo chamber with unfair ruling
14:51:32 <nioCat> look just above
14:52:19 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Yes, I edited my comment to make sure people understand I'm not saying current mod team are leeches, just speaking in a general sense
14:52:32 <nioCat> there is always a line, just matters where you put/perceive it
14:52:54 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> "Any language about "hate speech" is a slippery slope." Yeah, that "slippery slope" argument. Is that why I had to endure smearwords in groups of 3 and 4 in every second sentence in this room a few hours ago? Because heaven forbid we draw some lines in the sand.
14:54:20 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> man this get tiring. backlog have this argument already it all done
14:54:41 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> but backlog very long to be fair so can be hard to read all of it
14:54:59 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> I am here since 8:00 UTC, thanks very much.
14:55:18 <nioCat> required reading: "All I Really Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten"
14:55:25 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> unless you read logs on libera or irc many message delete thank you
14:56:01 <nioCat> omg matrix censors, what are you guys doing there?
14:56:10 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> There was any argument arguing convincingly that putting up with rows of swearwords is the least bad solution?
14:56:11 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> plowsof
14:57:31 <nioCat> too much popcorn, I am now changing to chocolate 
14:58:10 <plowsof> r4v3r23 no estimate sorry. When the admin sees my message 
14:58:21 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> If "free speech" enters the ring, it's anyway time for me to run the other way :)
14:58:34 <nioCat> 78%
14:58:44 <midipoet> there was no convincing argument for no CoC, other than "free speech" and "anarchism". 
14:59:29 <midipoet> There has also been absolutely no solution to what happens when someone hurls insults and slurs towards another. 
14:59:40 <midipoet> dEBRUYNE: says things should be civil 
14:59:45 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> yes there has. ban
14:59:55 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> that why ofrn not here right now
15:00:23 <nioCat> he is here in spirit 
15:00:26 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> overcomplicate with coc and we end up with restricted chat. no spam keep it simple
15:00:28 <midipoet> But there has been countless instances of things not being civil, on here, matrix, and the CCS and yet it took a lot of handwaving before anything was done by those with the powers to do anything 
15:00:44 <midipoet> And that, in my opinion, is the root of the issue 
15:00:49 <midipoet> Everything else is a symptom 
15:01:12 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> cool opinion
15:01:37 <nioCat> please read the book
15:01:52 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> my english is not the best to read a book that long
15:01:56 <midipoet> People having to handwave, makes them targets, and i think it's what those with power want, so they don't have to take the "blame" for keeping things civil 
15:02:08 <nioCat> it's simple
15:02:11 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> ISBN or Amazon link please :)
15:02:13 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> People need to agree at a fundamental level that if someone throws insults and harasses people, that that person should be removed from the room until they apologize, understand why it's wrong, and agree not to do it again. If the mods can't agree to enforce that, then there's no point of this room, since it'll be continuously ruined by bad actors
15:02:33 <nioCat> I believe it has been translated 
15:02:35 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> sgp everything you say is irrelevant as your a bad actor yourself
15:02:38 <midipoet> i agree with sgp_
15:02:40 <m-relay> <c​trej:matrix.org> there was no argument that did convince you. On the other hand there was no argument that we need a CoC for me (and many others)
15:03:05 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> there is a reason you stepped down from mod and a good one
15:03:07 <dEBRUYNE> <midipoet> dEBRUYNE: says things should be civil <= Right, but just to clarify I am not necessarily arguing in faovr of a CoC
15:03:10 <midipoet> ctrej: a CoC means that we can "try" and ensure that moderation is done in an objectively fair manner
15:03:14 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> stick to chain analysis and helping the fed
15:03:15 <dEBRUYNE> A codified code of conduct that is
15:03:23 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> thats your avenue and attacking ofrn how can we forget
15:03:42 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> It's the cost to pay for freedom of speech, even though it may not be always nice.
15:03:43 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> But as I said, of the same person keeps on insulting you over and over and over then it may be considered as spam.
15:03:44 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> But hey, it's just the way I think about online moderation. I've seen communities go mute and get neutered into echo chambers way too often in the past few years, sickens me to see what the internet has become. I just hope the Monero community doesn't end up this way as well.
15:03:51 <midipoet> In my opinion, if there isn't a CoC, moderation is up to the whims of whomever has the permission
15:04:14 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> midipoet -> no the community can say this X person being annoying ban and people can come to agreement
15:04:16 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> code of conducts, or any other name they are given, set expectations for the room, which is important when we have people here arguing that they should be able to insult anyone however they want. Moderators still have discretion; it isn't "if A happens then must do B"
15:04:40 <midipoet> dEBRUYNE: i know you aren't, and that's fine. But you have said you want things to be civil, but we have ample evidence that they haven't been
15:04:45 <midipoet> So what's the solution?
15:05:25 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> if there was solution society would be lovely, no wars and we all in peace
15:05:32 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> no solution perfect
15:05:43 <nioCat> rbrunner7 so many ISBN numbers as it has been translated and also audio books
15:06:40 <dEBRUYNE> midipoet: Fair point
15:06:48 <dEBRUYNE> <midipoet> So what's the solution? <= Don't really have an answer to that currently
15:07:06 <nioCat> easy enough to search
15:08:03 <m-relay> <r​brunner7:monero.social> I think there are no clear-cut answers, otherwise they would be universally known and applied already. It's always trade-offs and compromises in the end. Which is exactly I would accuse some people here today: No compromise in sight.
15:08:35 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> I wrote up some basic starting points a while back, let me pull those up. It's an example of setting some fundamental expectations, and in those expectations is restraint against taking anything unreasonably far
15:09:38 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> https://cryptpad.disroot.org/pad/#/2/pad/edit/NF37n6EF4rhV4+irPNfbUtCc/
15:10:21 <midipoet> We did have years and years ago, really simple rules for Monero. There was a graphic. 
15:10:30 <midipoet> I think there were like 7
15:11:23 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> go create your own server with these rules
15:11:30 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> we see how many people join
15:11:40 <nioCat> be good
15:12:35 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> always with rules the list keeps getting bigger until you end up with every other shitty social media in exist
15:14:41 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> Ffs touch grass. Anyone with a decent thinking know this is bs
15:15:02 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> You're advocating for no rules and no moderation, which makes no sense
15:15:06 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> people who touch grass dont know how internet works properly. ive been here long enough in many community see them all destroyed
15:15:39 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> no im not stop putting words in my mouth. i say that there are basic, basic rule like no spam. then if someone annoy or community dont agree with actions by one user they can ping mod to ban and reach agreement. not come up with bullshit list
15:15:42 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> LMAO
15:15:50 <midipoet> I'd be up for experimenting with no rules 
15:16:03 <midipoet> i think we could make this a fantastic place
15:16:11 <midipoet> And indeed all channels could be fantastic 
15:16:13 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> sgp should have no say in moderation/admin rules
15:16:41 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> theyve already proven they cant be trusted with them
15:16:44 <midipoet> shall we try a month of no rules in all channels?
15:16:47 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> he used to breaking rules on chain. wants to find out how much XMR you have in your wallet for the fed buddies
15:16:51 <midipoet> See how we go?
15:17:21 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> i know
15:17:24 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> who said no rules. i just say no rule list bullshit
15:17:33 <midipoet> oh!
15:17:35 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> why try to overcomplicate thing?
15:17:42 <midipoet> So what are the rules?
15:17:50 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> the document I linked really isn't that complicated lol
15:17:54 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> rules -> imply list
15:17:57 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> no spam
15:18:00 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> there should be one rule
15:18:04 <midipoet> on rule. 
15:18:05 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> bingo
15:18:08 <midipoet> No spam?
15:18:11 <midipoet> That's it
15:18:21 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> you trolling now
15:18:27 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> all words allowed
15:18:28 <nioCat> #1 be good
15:18:51 <nioCat> .bbl
15:18:51 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> its super verbose
15:19:05 <midipoet> #be good to each other and stay on topic# would be a good one
15:19:38 <midipoet> r4v3r23: insults? They allowed?
15:19:39 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> ...it's TWO pages lol
15:19:44 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> I wish you guys had the same strength at discussing that in my repo instead
15:19:57 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> i assume were all adults here
15:19:59 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> midipoet
15:20:01 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> sticks and stones
15:20:04 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> even Tor has a code of conduct https://community.torproject.org/policies/code_of_conduct/
15:20:06 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> idk if you are dumb
15:20:09 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> but this was discuss in backlogs
15:20:19 <m-relay> <o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> tldr. heh 😎
15:20:19 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> "even tor" LMFAO
15:20:20 <midipoet> r4v3r23: obviously we arent! We again, have ample evidence of this
15:20:23 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> monero also has coc already
15:21:03 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> if some one cant hand le a rando online talking shit, maybe they shouldnt be online
15:21:18 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> midipoet as a basement person who always on internet introduce bullshit rules will actually be worse and cause more dama => then people who sick of this move to other platform with less rules
15:21:36 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> youre always free to ignore the troll. they usually disappear
15:21:58 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> you can mute on irc/matrix
15:21:59 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> Yeah i'm sure we're all have been on this channel for only 1 hour for sure
15:22:00 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> there no excuse
15:22:12 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> anyway, ignore any of sgp's suggestions
15:22:14 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html
15:22:14 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> I vote for this one :)
15:22:15 <midipoet> r4v3r23: again, ample evidence, they dont. 
15:22:29 <m-relay> <t​uxsudo:tux.pizza> based
15:22:56 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> It was so good it triggered CoC people by simply existing
15:23:06 <midipoet> r4v3r23: i heard a funny story about you the other day
15:23:15 <midipoet> Was about your past dealings in the space
15:23:16 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> TIL
15:24:04 <midipoet> Supposedly you tried to rip someone off in another community (won't name it as it might be obvious who)
15:24:24 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> probably bullshit. but go ahead, it might give me another reason to leave
15:24:30 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> midipoet go back and make some conspiracy theory
15:24:44 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> ive been accused of everything already
15:24:46 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> before you leave read my dm
15:24:48 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> give me specifics
15:24:49 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> at least
15:25:27 <midipoet> r4v3r23: I'll DM you. Don't want to do it in public
15:25:34 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> ok
15:28:32 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> what do you mean by space? monero?
15:31:22 <SyntheticBird> if be any chance this channel got deleted, where else would the drama go ?
15:32:01 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> we already have a place but all of you dont like the drama we keep it private
15:32:58 <SyntheticBird> If you have a special place where you spend time being more toxic than this channel since the last 12 hours, I can only imagine why you are being so opinionated right now
15:33:07 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> the quote on quote drama is only criticing poor implementations like the quickly merge misspell repo
15:33:17 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> and attacks on ofrn
15:33:40 <SyntheticBird> yeah you better don't forget. because everything started from ofrn /s
15:36:38 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> dont you got cuprate work to do?
15:37:09 <SyntheticBird> I'm actively part of the project at the moment. And I've other interesting things to do right now. But thanks for asking
15:37:10 <m-relay> <m​onero1million:hackliberty.org> sorry may seem harsh but you keep telling me to touch grass and blah. go do work or touch grass yourself
15:37:21 <SyntheticBird> I'm not*
15:46:57 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/UATQUrAgaeCczMlLuazTqfMS
15:47:06 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> @plowsof i keep getting this when trying to fork ccs
15:48:43 <plowsof> Can not fork from a 3rd party account , have to wait for approval
15:49:09 <plowsof> Or use protonmail (which receives emails)
15:53:24 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> great, i deleted my account to re-registed the user name
15:53:35 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> now it says account blocked and username taken
15:53:49 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Ah yes a cesspit full of antisocial behavior, then all the sane people will quit
15:54:27 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> @midipoet ??
15:56:05 <luigi1111w> r4v3r23 we can probably fix that, what's the account name?
15:57:10 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> nvm luigi all good. just needed to wait
15:57:15 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> can you approve ANONERO account?
15:58:29 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> If we let this happens I wonder if the devs will jump on the sane channel or stay on the toxic one
15:59:57 <midipoet> r4v3r23: i can't get into my client to DM you, unfortunately. Wouldn't worry about it, was probably bullshit or some weird reputation attack
16:00:22 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> was it some one from here?
16:01:41 <midipoet> no, fairly sure it wasn't 
16:02:40 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> the only other community i was in was samourai
16:03:13 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> i left years ago tho. and i definitely triggered the fuck out of them
16:03:45 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> > It's the cost to pay for freedom of speech, even though it may not be always nice.
16:03:58 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> Freedom of speech pertains to government censorship, not voluntary associations.
16:04:26 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> @midipoet you can hit me up on telegram or protonmail with same user
16:04:34 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> if some ones talking shit they best come correct
16:05:03 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> What a difficult question to answer really. Move on the uninterrupted on-topic chat, or stay in the cesspit. Especially when people appointed by them and themselves are the ones swinging the banhammer currently and not allowing this to happen.
16:05:23 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> To hear this argument from you Cryptoguard, who banned me from Particl channels for criticizing the project management, is fucking hilarious
16:05:42 <midipoet> r4v3r23: i don't like people talking shit either to be honest 
16:05:59 <midipoet> But it happens 
16:06:57 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> > <@syntheticbird:monero.social> If we let this happens I wonder if the devs will jump on the sane channel or stay on the toxic one
16:06:58 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> What a difficult question to answer really. Move onto the uninterrupted on-topic chat, or stay in the cesspit. Especially when people appointed by them and themselves are the ones swinging the banhammer currently and not allowing this to happen.
16:07:14 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> same, but since im involved in a project now id like to know what these "dealings" were
16:07:24 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> Disagreement is obviously fine and necessary for healthy discourse and the development of new ideas.  Disagreement is different than disruption however, and the latter is a method used to attack free associations.
16:08:08 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> If people don't want a CoC, they need to have established methods and norms for keeping equillibrium and productivity. The ofrn affair has demonstrated that his ardent supports do not have this capacity.
16:08:48 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Just ignore someone Lol
16:09:12 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> They would rather see the topic of ofrn dominate all these channels for days, weeks on end.  Even throughout the delistings and spam attacks.  That they choose to heap more disruption on top is extraordinarily sus.
16:09:20 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Blocking others from speaking to someone is the literal definition of "blocking free association"
16:09:30 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> And thats what "bans" do
16:09:34 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> You can ignore someone.  Ignoring an enormous amount of brigaders is not so simple.
16:09:49 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> I still think it's just not good idea to have "the holy core team" also in charge of fundraising for anything besides keeping the lights on website and DNS bootstrap or whatever
16:10:06 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> No it's not the opposite of free association.  No one's obligated to listen to your bullshit.  If they block you, that's them telling you they think you're an asshole and want nothing more to do with you.
16:10:43 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> When money is involved, things get political, and having Monero for meditate messy politics is not appropriate scope for steward of decentralized projects "official" website and repo
16:10:58 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> *mediate
16:11:15 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> *Monero Core mediate
16:11:55 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> Anyone who prioritizes their ability to brigade, insult, and spam slurs should go start an #monero-freespeechzone channel
16:12:17 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> No one's stopping you from doing that.
16:12:31 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> Obviously
16:13:02 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> Then the people who compulsive needs to do so can get that out of their systems, and the people who prioritize discussing monero can use the current channels established for doing so.
16:13:06 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> Actually Monero Core could get your channel banned for infringing on their single hashtag namespace
16:13:23 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> ##monero-freespeechzone
16:14:28 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Even better if they quit wasting monero.social resources and start administrating their own homeserver
16:14:41 <elucidator> jwinterm: you mean #monero-pools ? :P
16:14:44 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> Agreed!
16:14:54 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The Monero project is owned by its creators and maintainers. They have all powers and its good like that
16:15:08 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Ignoring 3 people because they hurt your feelies takes seconds and doesn't negate the fact you have no right to prevent others from speaking to them
16:15:11 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> They should put their money where their mouths are.  You love decentralization and free speech?  Fucking prove it and start another instance where you can define the norms.
16:15:45 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no joke this channel cause me brainrot
16:15:51 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> You all keep saying this is one person, it's three people, it's only a handful of bad apples.  It's disingenuous af and obviously wrong to anyone who can scroll up to read the last weeks of conversation.
16:16:34 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> You keep trying to minimize the fact that this is derailing the conversations during the time where the project is seeing rapid delistings and repeated spam attacks.
16:16:47 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> sus af
16:17:09 <m-relay> <d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Wonderful we have someone attacking monero and we are arguing about chat moderation 😂
16:18:29 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> tbf, the spam attack is technical, not community-related or social
16:18:40 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> so it's pretty ok not to discuss it under #monero-community:monero.social
16:19:51 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Additionally, monero.social is hosted in Hetzner Finland. Where hate speech is illegal and not permitted by terms and conditions.
16:21:27 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> Someone owns getmonero.org
16:21:32 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> And it's not all the creators
16:21:47 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> Someone has GitHub access
16:21:51 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> And it's not all the creators
16:22:12 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> And essentially one person is gatekeeping finding opportunities still it seems
16:22:17 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> Funding
16:23:26 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> I just think it's always going to ugly, and it's better not to have the official Monero brand involved in something that will always necessarily be messy, loud, political, etc
16:24:16 <midipoet> gydcmr: IRC users can't ignore matrix users and visa versa
16:24:24 <midipoet> As you have to ignore the bridge
16:24:29 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> And as you can see the optics of Luigi hastily posting some new vibes document on the "official" Monero repo has not been universally well received by all community members on Twitter
16:24:34 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> I miss the old bridge
16:24:38 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> but it was broken
16:24:49 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> Or even fellow core team member debruyne coming in earlier and voicing objections
16:24:57 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> What kind of process is this?
16:26:06 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> There seems to be no defined process and no defined core team either really
16:26:09 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> It's called:
16:26:10 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > Hey I've opened a repo
16:26:11 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > I prefer it to be under monero orga since its monero related
16:26:12 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > Oh can you migrate it ?
16:26:13 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > What ?
16:26:14 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > I thought you wanted to migrate it
16:26:15 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > Yeah I can do that
16:26:16 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > Thanks
16:26:17 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> I appreciate saying all contributors own the project but imo that means nothing in reality
16:26:24 <midipoet> RavFX: the old bridge also didn't allow ignore to work properly, as far as i remember. 
16:26:58 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm really asking with all due respect and I'm begging you. Can you write this frustration out in the repository
16:27:03 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> The old bridge did show each bridged users are normal users so I assume it was working for that
16:27:35 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> I'm not frustrated I'm just here for the vibes 😸
16:29:53 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> why has it been removed ?
16:30:06 <luigi1111w> <y​asabi:matrix.org> Anyone who prioritizes their ability to brigade, insult, and spam slurs should go start an #monero-freespeechzone channel <= maybe don't use the "monero" prefix because then the project owns it by default.
16:30:11 <midipoet> ravfx: perhaps, but unfortunately technological determinism now means all IRC users must take matrix users as an aggregate, so you are only as productive as your lowest common denominator, and vice versa of course. 
16:30:35 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> really the issue isn't a new CoC, there's already a CoC that covers the core of the issue here.  the issue is that it's not consistently applied
16:30:54 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> a new CoC isn't going to fix anything if it's also inconsistently applied
16:31:09 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Its was not doing it's job (bridging use text) anymore
16:31:57 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I disagree. The nearest CoC we have is related to the old forum.
16:31:58 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Making a new one permit to both hear each parties in the conflict and show an interest by the community to see mods apply these rules.
16:32:25 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> luigi1111w: thanks, as you can tell i'm a lowly matrix pleb and not fully accustomed to IRC conventions
16:33:04 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> @luigi1111w are you gitlab admin?
16:33:30 <luigi1111w> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > I prefer it to be under monero orga since its monero related <= this was ill-considered by me since the repo is very preliminary. That's my bad.
16:33:30 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> but really i think it needs to be asked what difference does another document make.  why is it some people who are charged with the application of these things are preferring not to?
16:34:08 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> it seems to me that's because their cultural/political sympathies towards an understanding of freespeech as including insults and slurs is taking priority over the duties of moderating that they signed up for.
16:34:31 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> which is fine, that's their perogative, but then why are they moderators?
16:34:44 <luigi1111w> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> @luigi1111w are you gitlab admin? <= no moneromooo is, I think plowsof contacted him already
16:37:18 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> DEBRUYNE is a core team member? Since when? 🤔
16:37:47 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> this question appears to cover all the monero channels.  the discord server for example, which has multiple "official project people" in the mod and admin team, already has just one single rule which is simply "No slurs".  Guess what?  It's never enforced.
16:37:54 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> its meme channel is full of images of just the n-word
16:38:04 <m-relay> <r​4v3r23:monero.social> gotchya thanks
16:38:15 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> everyone is constantly calling eachother faggot and retarded
16:38:32 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> what's the point of having the rule?  either don't have the rule, or actually enforce the rule
16:38:48 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I can only agree with that.
16:39:04 <m-relay> <j​winterm:matrix.org> Whatever close enough
16:39:38 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Ban jw for being a troll! Derailing our very on-topic channel!
16:40:44 <luigi1111w> hmm what is this monero discord
16:41:45 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> either not having the rule, or actually applying it, will resolve all this ambiguity by informing the "types" of people who may be interested as to the cultural norms of the space.
16:42:14 <luigi1111w> it sounds like it's just not modded at all
16:42:33 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> people who prefer not to be in spaces with those norms, who see the rule and join and then see the actual behavior, are not to be faulted if they come to the conclusion that "this is just how the monero community is" and decide not to involve themselves with it
16:43:28 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The community is vital to Monero. And the worst fate it can get is devs to be disgusted by the community
16:47:38 <m-relay> <C​ryptoGuard:matrix.org> Can't remember if it was me or another mod but it was consistant with my spamming stance.  We've discussed this on Reddit a few months ago when I invited you back into the chat.
16:47:53 <luigi1111w> <y​asabi:matrix.org> but really i think it needs to be asked what difference does another document make.  why is it some people who are charged with the application of these things are preferring not to? <= there isn't really a mod team on IRC. There are some admins and plowsof. Moderation on IRC in most channels just hasn't been an issue throughout most of the project's history. Matrix came along and built its own mod team, but th
16:47:53 <luigi1111w> e bridge joining it to IRC made it a part of the IRC stuff unlike any other platforms
16:50:00 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> CryptoGuard: funny the timing of it then immediately after i simply observed that due to coin distribution it was impossible to outvote the core team on their own funding proposals
16:50:16 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> And I have no such reddit DM.
16:51:01 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> But that's beside the point of this channel and conversation.
16:52:08 <luigi1111w> oh particl
16:52:18 <luigi1111w> I was wondering how coin distribution mattered lol
17:03:45 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> yeah it looks like the bridge doesn't include comments quoted within messages lol
17:04:00 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> its confused me more than once so far
17:05:32 <luigi1111w> yeah replies don't show. IRC is archaic
17:06:22 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Discord: 🌟
17:06:26 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> just kidding
17:06:28 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> JUST KIDDING
17:07:19 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> In theory we could have Matrix bridged to both IRC and Discord
17:07:26 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> and even Twitter
17:07:28 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> and even Signal
17:07:35 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> and even XMPP
17:09:13 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> sgp_ (New Account: @sgp:magicgrants.org): charuto: this person from this room keeps spamming room invites, FYI
17:09:29 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/kernal.eu/qiVBrUXtfzmgyRUBJHksKGse
17:10:04 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> i got one of those invites as well, i found the symbol in the background of the user icon curious
17:10:50 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Yeah didn't join obviously
17:12:53 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Joined accidently. But messages didn't load
17:12:58 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> They invited me when I was on monero.social
17:12:59 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> They invited me again on my new xmr.mx account
17:13:48 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Still have the pending invite.
17:13:48 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> I know that if I reject it they are going to invite me again and again 😂
17:14:15 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Wait I can probably block it too lol
17:17:26 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> MR 444 should be merged just because of the ton of fake account downvoting it
17:18:10 <m-relay> <p​ointoffailure:monero.social> Bruh, just open a context menu -> ignore user and its done
17:21:04 <m-relay> <p​ointoffailure:monero.social> Year 2024: Decentralized anarchist communities are begging for strict rules, a strong hand, and mods(police) to keep everything in order.
17:21:59 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> rottenwheel
17:22:00 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Well, if you filter out the fakes, more people upvotted than downvotted.
17:22:01 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> It say it all, more people want ofrn back and the one that don't want it back have to amplify there hate by creating fake accounts to pump number 😂
17:23:41 <m-relay> <p​ointoffailure:monero.social> Imagine faces of your grand sons and grand daughters when the AI will be telling them about you 😬
17:25:05 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> mods are not police, that's insane.  police can kill you and get a paid six month vacation
17:25:17 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> mods are volunteering their time and can remove you from the channel at worst
17:25:23 <m-relay> <p​ointoffailure:monero.social> Ban is a virtual kill
17:25:26 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> comparing the two is absolutely idiotic or completely disingenuous
17:25:30 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> LMAO
17:30:26 <m-relay> <p​ointoffailure:monero.social> You transit the subject into nonexistence in the virtual space without his consent, so how do you differ from an executioner?
17:36:59 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Very cool, get banned 😎
17:39:27 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> maybe you go should go outside and try hurling insults at a cop and let us know your feelings again afterwards, if you're still able to type lol
17:39:43 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Cope
17:39:56 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Y'all need to take your meds
17:40:03 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Schizo chuds who are terminally online
17:42:28 <m-relay> <c​ockliuser:matrix.org> The irony is that "terminally online" is a piece of terminally online lingo
17:43:39 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> sgp_ (New Account: @sgp:magicgrants.org): charuto: plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:  this person from this room keeps spamming room invites, FYI
17:44:06 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> The English language is now online somehow
17:44:18 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Incredible
17:44:20 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Go outside
17:45:49 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I support CoC expansion. I'm tired of being here to discuss Monero and seeing items such as transphobia and homophobia. Someone's gender identity has no relation to their ability to contribute to Monero so it should have no place here.
17:45:50 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Specifically, I'll call out how today, pointing out an instance of transphobia (belittling people who specify pronouns in general really) was met with an accusation of Monero going woke. It's not woke to say we shouldn't insult/belittle people and make them feel unwelcome.
17:45:51 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> If we stop people from attacking people for completely irrelevant reasons to the project, we can get back to focusing on work. This chat is a mess, detracting from actually meaningful conversations.
17:45:52 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I don't believe the current CoC repo should exist. I'd call for someone to type a full draft, submit it to meta, and incorporate edits. Then I'd call for adoptance as a repo under the org.
17:45:53 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'd call for a ban of remarks on race/ethnicity, gender identity, sexual orientation, and all slurs based on that premise. I'd note we should all be respectful and professional to each other. If someone continually breaks the rules, I'm perfectly fine saying 3 strike and you're out, not several days of dealing with your bs before finally ending it.
17:45:54 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I don't want to be dragged down by babysitting this process. I don't want to be dragged down by arguing about it. I definitely don't want to be dragged down by the bullshit here constantly occurring. I do want a future free of this. How can we end this before I just leave? If we can't, that's the decision of the community here, just as it'd be my decision to leave.
17:45:55 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Also, yes, I'm still on matrix.org. Apologies if that makes me out of the conversation.
17:45:58 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Can we, at a minimum, make a monero-discussofrn room and shunt all of this bs there?
17:46:15 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Tldr. I dont speak terminally online incel
17:46:23 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Nobody with a life does this
17:46:44 <m-relay> <g​ycdmr:mtrx.cz> Just go outside, make a few friends 😆
17:47:25 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Shunting \* ofrn to a new room so this can be yelled about ad infinitum *somewhere else* sounds amazing to me.
18:02:36 <m-relay> <p​ointoffailure:monero.social> Some cops are my friends and I'm still able to type, lol. Try it at mods and you won't be able to type anything here very soon 🙂.
18:02:36 <m-relay> <p​ointoffailure:monero.social> If you embrace the same models currently existing in a state then your community is doomed in a long run. The fact that you're policing on a much much smaller scale and it's not as harmful as in the real world is not an excuse. You're just much smaller than a state today and your organization doesn't exist in the real world afterall.
18:20:26 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'll post my CCS later today. The very brief is:
18:20:27 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 880 XMR for my work on R&D for FCMPs, part of a total 3000 XMR raise for also funding review and audits (~250k allocated for that purpose). Funds held by the CCS, discretion for who to fulfill the included milestones (and for how much) by myself, jberman, and loose agreement by the MRL. Remaining funds, if any, upon success/failure to roll over into a new MRL discretionary fund (p<clipped message>
18:20:28 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> rocedures to be established upon roll over), as proposed in the meeting before last.
18:20:29 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> --
18:20:30 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'd expect the main discussion to be over if this should be split into two distinct proposals, one for my R&D, one for the slush fund.
18:21:19 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I am open to hearing, here and now, prior to my publication initial thoughts on that matter :)
18:23:05 <geonic> speak now or forever hold your peace :)
18:23:09 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> kayabanerve: Thank you! Did you know that "slush fund' usually means a fund that is improper in some way? Maybe have a different term for it.
18:23:40 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> ⸸gycdmr⸸: are you mass inviting people here to join some room 'europol' room?
18:25:50 <geonic> kayabanerve: are we any closer to FCMPs since your last proposal? I saw your interview with the crypto lady and MT, but I'm having a hard time keeping track of the actual developments
18:26:28 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I was invited, did not realize it was an invite to a room (as I didn't know those existed), and was disturbed by the content. If that's the person who's performing the invites, I'd say they should be banned as a spammer.
18:27:22 <geonic> by "last proposal" I mean the retroactive one
18:28:51 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> sounds sane after all the corroborating reports. apparently there are other accounts spamming but that was the only one here
18:30:24 <m-relay> <d​an:cypherstack.com> Thanks, I'm going to look into this account now.
18:34:45 <geonic> bridge ded?
18:34:48 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Slush fund suggests impropriety???
18:35:20 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I just thought it meant a loose allocation of funds that's slushy
18:35:33 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Fluid enough to flow, frozen enough to go to certain things
18:35:46 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'd recommend reading my gist
18:36:09 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> No, it's used to convey that people siphon from it, lol
18:36:21 <scoobybejesus> slush/discretionary...  not necessarily improper
18:36:55 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> kayabanerve: Slush fund on Wikipedia: "A slush fund is a fund or account used for miscellaneous income and expenses, particularly when these are corrupt or illegal. Such funds may be kept hidden and maintained separately from money that is used for legitimate purposes."
18:37:03 <m-relay> <s​gp_:monero.social> "discretionary fund" is what people usually use if legitimate :)
18:38:36 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> It covers a proposal prior to Seraphis and the explicit steps we can take towards it
18:44:05 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'll drop the term "slush fund" which apparently is closely linked to corruption???
18:44:08 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Thanks for the heads up Rucknium
18:44:56 <m-relay> <p​otr:monero.social> Originally yes, but they've been misused enough for the term to acquire a negative connotation. Discretionary fund lacks the pejorative weight
18:46:10 <plowsof> geonic yes, matrix dot org <> monero social ded / severely delayed (the irc bridge -> matrix) 
18:47:29 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> inb4 CCS RICO trial :smirk
18:50:37 <plowsof> new merge requests on the ccs monero dot observer and ANONERO version 1.0/rewrite https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests
19:00:38 <midipoet> > a loose allocation of funds that's slushy
19:00:41 <midipoet> ^^ to be fair that does sound naughty. 
19:00:54 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Can i just say your pissing in the wind. We have resolution room and that its a joke, so beef was created and that turnned into a joke, co- opted.
19:01:31 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> A slush fund is pool of money i can do whatever i want without no oversight.
19:03:02 <midipoet> bob. Why can't you just have your ownatrix uncensored room then?
19:03:06 <midipoet> *own matrix
19:08:29 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> not a fund to buy slush puppies for everyone, oh
19:09:02 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Or slushies
19:13:02 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Should I start uncensored monero related matrix rooms on xmr.mx? (obviously no CP / actually illegal shiet)
19:13:21 <m-relay> <x​mrscott:monero.social> This is factually wrong on several levels. -beef was created for civil, technical spats in 2021 and predates Resolutions. Resolutions was created in 2022, 9 months later so other homeserver admins could discuss issues originally, and now is also geared for flagging a bunch of mods at once for cases of flood, spam, and so forth
19:13:30 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> It's an earmarked fund with the confirmation process being fast tracked to two trusted people and a MRL meeting to confirm it's reasonable
19:34:27 <plowsof> confirming i have created a plowsof:monero.social account 
19:42:34 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> you have my permission
19:43:04 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> but be aware that there's already a number of those rooms and there's a reason why they're not more popular
20:04:32 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/ttonuUDvhLAFHcrIIUDEdasc
20:04:37 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> we should adopt that!
20:31:01 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> You showed one level 1 btw. And two how come there was a meeting a couple of months ago where beef was created and ruck was incharge then with in a couple of weeks ofrn got banned and then ruck unbanned him and then you invited banhammer and then  ruck left the room.
20:37:25 <m-relay> <x​mrscott:monero.social> No, I showed that you got dates wrong which then also has the corollary that the entire statement is wrong as it was pretexted on order, so multiple levels of wrong
20:37:29 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> This all happened around the time erc suicide banned ofrn and you mutted me in resolution dor asking for him to be unbanned
20:38:34 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> I was in the room and go why did ruck leave oh bannerhammer was invited
20:39:49 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> All this shit started when you fifo in and started retroactive banning people and distrupted the community.
20:39:54 <m-relay> <x​mrscott:monero.social> You weren't muted for asking to be unbanned; you were muted for choosing to ignore warnings and continue to make peanut gallery comments in a Support specific room when there are plenty of other less serious rooms to make peanut gallery comments in
20:40:27 <m-relay> <x​mrscott:monero.social> You weren't muted for asking for someone to be unbanned; you were muted for choosing to ignore warnings and continue to make peanut gallery comments in a Support specific room when there are plenty of other less serious rooms to make peanut gallery comments in
20:41:04 <m-relay> <x​mrscott:monero.social> Ruck is not an alt of mine; I can't comment on why they left
20:41:15 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> 🙄
20:41:50 <m-relay> <x​mrscott:monero.social> Ruck is not an alt of mine; I can't comment on why they left Edit: To clarify, not saying Ruck is one period. Commenting that I'm not Ruck, so I can't speak to Ruck's decisions
20:42:35 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> I'm a fan of Grin's Code of Conduct, itself influence by Mozilla's: https://grin.mw/policies/code_of_conduct
20:44:08 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Fck off. Ask rav and siren
20:44:13 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> it clearly defines its own scope in as minimalistic a way as possible, and  its enforcement guidelines are structured as such to dissuard the potential for abuse by mods which so many here claim is their primary concern.
20:44:15 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> For matrix and IRC this is actually a great policy
20:44:21 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> *dissuade
20:44:27 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> I said can you unban him cause he was stufd to do for community
20:45:21 <m-relay> <y​asabi:matrix.org> it describes but does not mandate positive behavior, but succinctly defines what is unacceptable
20:46:00 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> What is the license ?
20:46:06 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> if there is one for a code of conduct
20:47:51 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> It's apparently based on contributor covenant which is CC BY 4.0 License. I'll use that as a basis for my proposal
20:52:42 <midipoet> You could just take the first two paragraphs and then say if people don't act accordingly there is a three strike rule. Then bans. 1 day. 7 days. 30 days. 180 days, and so on. 
20:54:41 <midipoet> And if people complain it's too "woke", then just boil it down to this: "We, as contributors, want to make participation in our community a harassment-free experience for everyone. Act accordingly". 
21:07:53 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> So will there be a monero kangaroo court too?
21:11:49 <plowsof> 99 xmr donation to the GF 0_0
21:12:07 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Waste
21:14:04 <nioCat> y not 100?
21:14:41 <plowsof> tii
21:15:25 <plowsof> too predictable 
21:31:21 <midipoet> Doner is broke
21:32:29 <midipoet> that was their last 99 moneros
21:32:39 <midipoet> We're screwed 
21:36:53 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Döner > Donor
21:37:31 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doner_kebab > GF
21:38:23 <m-relay> <n​o_2:matrix.org> xmrscott @xmrscott:monero.social: can you see my direct messages? I wanted to discuss marketing with the basic swap team.
21:38:23 <m-relay> <n​o_2:matrix.org> Basic swap is adding new coins and it's a great place to swap XMR from your own wallet.
21:39:15 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> KebabFund >GF
21:45:54 <midipoet> it's late. Forgive me. What's a typo between ~*friends*~ random people on the internet 
22:06:32 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> we do kebabs now?
22:06:33 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> How can I invest?
22:17:48 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> Lol
22:19:36 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> Btw Uniswap getting a Wells notice is probably something we should have on our radar, even though it’s ETH (eww)
22:19:36 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> If a decentralized exchange can be properly punished by authorities….
22:40:27 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> https://9front.org/coc
22:40:38 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> (refresh page multiple times)
22:41:16 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> gigachat based sqlite obviously
22:41:19 <m-relay> <m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> gigachad based sqlite obviously
22:41:42 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Is it actually decentralized though? I've heard about some Uniswap company or something that is in charge of it, which is who they sent the Wells notice to.
22:43:00 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> personal favorite
22:43:01 <m-relay> <c​harutocafe:matrix.org> image.png
22:44:28 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> how tho, if uniswap takes the site down people can still swap
22:45:25 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> The government likely knows this
22:45:26 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> So why are they still going forward with it? That’s my concern. They might know something that we don’t.
23:25:05 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> Now accepting applications for MoneroKon Hackathon: https://monerokon.devfolio.co
23:26:04 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> Space limited to 100 hackers, $6k+ in prizes
23:44:16 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Save one spot for ccs wallet hacker
23:49:19 <m-relay> <k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/448
23:53:25 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> New record?