01:48:48 https://twitter.com/monerobull/status/1788022967714115925 01:58:14 <123bob123:matrix.org> Rip 02:12:10 <123bob123:matrix.org> Time to delist my wallet :/ 02:40:02 https://matrix.to/#/!cSwJDzxRuWndmFUZTd:haveno.network/$lt6ziT5Tt37pOBVJ8Er5VOr6v7F36YtJhORFQc23KCA?via=monero.social&via=matrix.org&via=xmr.se 03:00:30 I still have 70 cents in my agoradesk wallet 06:01:33 monerobull: It seems like they simply removed all the coins that their custodian doesn't have support for 06:01:43 On that list there's also fairly new coins that are quite popular 06:01:50 SUI, SEI, INJ for instance 06:12:29 its not like the custodian will support monero in the future 06:17:00 Fair point, merely saying that seems to be the main reason 07:01:33 <321bob321:monero.social> Also localmonero room has been restricted 08:42:58 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> LM IS DEAD 08:42:59 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> so is practical utility of XMR with it 08:45:28 Here lies Monero 2014-2024 Cause of death: CEX shutting down. 08:51:52 <321bob321:monero.social> When is the wake? 09:28:46 ¨monero is dead" is the new ¨bitcoin is dead¨ 10:09:18 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/457 's comments are already epic ngl 10:09:29 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/hMNPMyxAnrterdgyCZCHDBhv 10:10:36 hopefully next meeting will be constructive 10:21:14 Wtf is that proposal 10:21:57 ofrnxmr is proposing to become "BasicSwap project manager". in a nutshell 10:23:23 it appears to be a request for funding the development of what is currently the only DEX with proper Monero support. 10:23:36 :P 10:25:40 ofrnxmr want to be "BasicSwap project manager". in a nutshell 10:29:26 Gosh, basicswapdex would already be used by everyone if they had a proper installer. Good UI, working atomic swaps, secret swap ootb. 10:32:37 <321bob321:monero.social> Is that called development ? 10:32:52 Part of being a good project manager is being able to determine proper milestones 10:34:59 And we know from recent experience the quality of work we can expect 🤣 10:35:01 <321bob321:monero.social> Woulsd be good if someone that uses it can comment 10:35:03 <321bob321:monero.social> Would* 10:37:37 <321bob321:monero.social> I know ofrn was doing some ui changes a while ago and made a install script 10:37:55 Not to mention the fact that he expects all the milestones to be paid *directly to him, for "further distribution"* - again, upfront before any work is done 10:40:41 "This is a totally different and legit proposal guys, I swear. Oh, the other obvious scam proposal that just got rejected? That has nothing to do with this. Anyway, just give me even more money upfront, I'll pay the guys for work, promise!" 10:41:24 Do we have confirmation that the particl devs are aware of the proposal and are willing to work with ofrnxmr ? 10:41:40 I hate matrix 10:42:04 Do we have confirmation that particl devs are aware of this proposal and are willing to work with him ? 10:43:54 Yeah, that too 10:48:34 Also, the **description for M4 is wrong**. It says 10+10+5 xmr, but the actual funds in the code are **300 xmr** 10:48:35 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/457/diffs#fc7a47eb9060bafec75886912ca4732b6235464a_0_26 10:52:25 10+10+5 * 12 is where that 300 comes from it seems 11:05:09 So to recap: 11:05:11 - raging asshole who plays nice with his buddies and people in useful positions of power 11:05:13 - makes ccs proposal requesting 208 xmr upfront "for existing" 11:05:15 - raises shitstorm 11:05:17 - tries to backtrack, claims he'll do "work for the community", still wants money upfront 11:05:19 - gets rejected because it's obvious nonsense 11:05:21 - not even 12 hours later, comes up with a new proposal offering "managerial work" 11:05:23 - asks for 650 xmr upfront immediately "to be distributed to devs by him" 11:05:25 - asks for another 900 xmr upfront after 3 months 11:05:27 Not just doubling down, but tripling down on the bullshit, and then some more. Given all the history, this proposal should be viewed with high suspicion. 11:05:29 After all, what's to stop ofrn and the other two devs from cashing out the first milestone M0, [pretend to] do some work for 3 months, and then get the other two milestones M1+M2 and go on a nice vacation? That would be 1500 xmr (200.000 USD!!) for 3 months of work for 3 people. 11:08:51 I don't expect ofrn to just get away with its 650xmr since its fanbase would be highly disappointed, unless he find a genius excuse. I'm more worry about the particl devs being stolen as you mentioned in last 11:14:31 <321bob321:monero.social> I like the defamation 11:14:37 <321bob321:monero.social> Without proof 11:15:17 we don't have to prove someone is untrustworthy, they have to prove they are trustworthy 11:15:57 I think "defamation with proof" is something like an oxymoron 11:17:01 <321bob321:monero.social> Without* 11:20:13 Stop defaming me with proof and facts 11:21:00 Unrelated joke 11:21:22 I liked the joke 11:21:30 description says 10+10+5 per month. 12*25=300 11:22:15 <321bob321:monero.social> Joke is coc 11:22:23 <321bob321:monero.social> Like being in a school 11:25:40 <321bob321:monero.social> I suppose weak people attack people who cant defend themselves 11:25:56 <321bob321:monero.social> Or gutless 11:26:55 He earn his ability to not defend himself in this channel 5 times. 11:27:23 <321bob321:monero.social> Well post your comments in gitlab then 11:27:36 <321bob321:monero.social> Or be a keyboard warrior here 11:28:22 I'll do dan don't be impatient 11:35:55 >>> "ofrnxmr is basically DDoS’ing the CCS with proposals to see what sticks." 11:36:02 This is what is happening here. 11:42:14 <321bob321:monero.social> Msdos 12:58:22 Like it or not, he was the only one that pointed out the cake wallet sneaking in some telemetry without users consent until they fixed it(they said we dont hold data, then why the fuck did you collect it in the first place?) 12:58:23 If you shutdown anyone you disagree with and just hoard the whole CCS like how a single guy is eating up the whole GF without a transparent report of wtf is he doing with the money, monero will eventually end up like bitcoin 13:01:43 > (they said we dont hold data, then why the fuck did you collect it in the first place?) 13:01:45 Ah yes, I forgot collecting imply holding in order to provide feature, how didn't I thinked about it. 13:06:16 py.verse I was wondering how long until the usual "but he does so much for the community, he has helped me lots, he is the greatest unpaid monero support associate ever!" comment was going to appear... 13:06:17 Very polite pointing out, indeed... Pssh. 13:06:19 https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/2013#issuecomment-2032200888 13:06:49 https://github.com/cake-tech/cake_wallet/pull/1347#issuecomment-2016794981 13:14:31 I dont want or expect anyone to work for free, get paid if you need but do the requested job, 13:14:33 They did add toggle one update after they added the telemetry 13:14:35 Under the pretext of "Developer Mistake" 13:14:37 Collect data if you want but don't do sneaky tricks when you boast about privacy and anonymity, Don't get me wrong i still use the cake wallet but the mistake is a mistake and should get pointed out, Don't make this like some weird cult 13:18:33 > <@rottenwheel:kernal.eu> https://github.com/cake-tech/cake_wallet/pull/1347#issuecomment-2016794981 13:18:35 I dont want or expect anyone to work for free, get paid if you need to but do the requested job, 13:18:37 They did add toggle one update after they added the telemetry 13:18:39 Under the pretext of "Developer Mistake" 13:18:41 Collect data if you want but don't do sneaky tricks when you boast about privacy and anonymity, Don't get me wrong i still use the cake wallet but the mistake is a mistake and should get pointed out, Don't make this like some weird cult 13:34:17 > I dont want or expect anyone to work for free, get paid if you need to but do the requested job, 13:34:19 I think everyone here does. 13:34:21 > Under the pretext of "Developer Mistake" 13:34:23 so that imply you think it was wanted by the devs ? 13:34:25 > I still use the cake wallet but the mistake is a mistake and should get pointed out 13:34:27 Then you call it a mistake ? I struggle to understand your pov here. 13:37:13 tbc, I agree with ofrnxmr frustration regarding this feature, It should have been clearer to users and disabled by default (like a popup at update requesting you to enable it). 13:37:46 But the "cake is a spyware" part? Come on... 13:39:36 Honestly that PR thread reads like a disgruntled "researcher" demanding payment/shouout for bullshit in a bug bounty 13:40:55 "@OmarHatem28 remove this feature or ill ensure cake is ptomptly removed from getmonero 💯 13:40:56 fkn spyware" <---- nah fuck that dude 13:41:23 why are people like this 13:42:24 number of factors, but mainly to find "a sense in life" 13:46:13 I don't approve of the way he talks too and as i said, i still use cake wallet 13:46:15 And you can't really find someone with high technical skills to work for free(most of the time) and it's not a long term solution 13:46:33 honestly Monero seems like a shit community to try to do anything good for 13:47:08 love y'all but goddamn, props to Cake wallet guys for keeping it professional 13:47:46 1. fair enough 13:47:47 2. ofrnxmr don't have high technical skills afaik, ajs notated multiple small PRs 13:48:07 Lyza0: also haveno 13:48:50 that's fair Lyza, devs needs support from the community and unfortunately when we let aggressive people rotting in the space it always finish badly 13:51:47 As i said it's not perfect but we don't have any other choice except just ignoring the basicswap until someone else picks it up and again if "some people approve them" and wait for funding etc etc.. 13:51:49 Serai is still far away from the mainnet release and i dont know if haveno will be completed 13:51:51 Even if you don't like it, there are people who want to accelerate the pace, core devs focused on their own projects atm, this is the "only option" we have right now 13:54:51 How is he going to "accelerate the pace" here? Why can't the devs themselves come and ask for funding directly? 13:56:04 ofrn said he would turn basicswap production ready in 1 year. sorry but haveno is more close to be released in weeks than months. 13:56:16 As a manager, what will he do? Have weekly scrums? 13:59:13 You should ask him in the proposal page not here 14:01:50 Well with a lot of incidents regarding samourai wallet, localmonero, the more options we have, the harder it is to block it(ofc if its possible) 14:03:07 No I don't think he has experience in managing a technical team. Besides just 2 devs do not need a manager, it will slow down the development. There is more harm than good to that. 14:13:37 > <@py.verse:matrix.org> You should ask him in the proposal page not here 14:13:37 No I don't think he has experience in managing a technical team. Besides just 2 devs do not need a manager outside of a corporate environment, it will slow down the development. There is more harm than good to that. 14:14:12 It's not the first time we have a CCS that rely on a team of people. generally all members or at least a subset of them have communicated during meetings or comments. CS comes to my mind. Regarding ofrn it should be a good start to include particl devs into the discussion 14:15:30 Because if his plan is to just grab the money and offer a bounty to the devs, community need to know it 14:20:16 Then you should talk directly with the devs and see if they are okay with that, maybe the devs themselves also accepted to work with him 14:20:17 If no one works on basicswap thats not a more harm than good 14:20:19 Thats just a good or nothing at this point 14:20:21 You are comparing something with nothing, there is no better option for basicswap development. 14:20:23 thats the whole point 14:25:05 No better option than associating with a person who is still actively trying to damage the community and possibly cash out on his long con, and requesting literally hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Monero upfront "for safekeeping"? 14:25:22 No, I don't think that's "a better option" 14:25:43 You talk like i have some personal feelings for that guy, I can't even write his name without double checking it, if you can do it better, i will root for you until your proposal gets accepted or even if they decline it i will donate to your personal wallet, 14:25:43 But most of the people are judging this purely based on their personal relationship 14:25:45 Like that rottenwheel guy is just spam attacking everything he sees from ofrnxmr 14:25:50 nothing = taking the risk to undermine CCS reputation 14:26:36 A better option would be the two actual devs making a ccs for themselves, with a detailed breakdown of the actual work (and not just "frontend and backend"), and getting paid *after* the work is completed. You know, like other devs do 14:27:29 You count as 1 buddy 14:27:31 No one is forcing you to donate to it, but you want to forcefully stop people from supporting it 14:27:33 You have the right the mindset. We shouldn't formulate our sentence by showing our feeling towards ofrn but its pretty hard knowing all the consequences of his actions. Tho we're still sticking to legit arguments in that case. 14:27:47 If people care enough about this proposal and indeed if the devs are aware of the existence of this proposal, there's nothing stopping them from submitting their own proposal. And in fact they will see that they're encouraged to do so. I therwise if the devs aren't aware of this proposal, funding it would be unethical. 14:28:28 That's not how it works. CCS have to approved by core, as a quality assurance. If everyone was able to donate to any random project the Monero project would have destroy its reputation 14:28:30 Given that you showed up out of nowhere just to invest a lot of energy to defend *this particular someone*'s proposal, you do seem to have "some personal feelings" 14:28:36 I'm pretty sure they can see and hear all of the drama going around them, they can if they want, you can reach them out yourself 14:28:38 > <@py.verse:matrix.org> Then you should talk directly with the devs and see if they are okay with that, maybe the devs themselves also accepted to work with him 14:28:39 > If no one works on basicswap thats not a more harm than good 14:28:41 > Thats just a good or nothing at this point 14:28:43 > You are comparing something with nothing, there is no better option for basicswap development. 14:28:45 > thats the whole point 14:28:47 If people care enough about this proposal and indeed if the devs are aware of the existence of this proposal, there's nothing stopping them from submitting their own proposal. And in fact they will see that they're encouraged to do so. Otherwise if the devs aren't aware of this proposal, funding it would be unethical. 14:29:41 Gee, where have I heard that before. 14:29:43 But this is not about me donating or not. This is about proposals that do not conform to the CCS standards, and should therefore be changed (or removed entirely, in some cases) 14:29:55 > "I'm pretty sure" 14:29:57 You can understand some might find this a bit sus. 14:32:49 I was here even before i got to know him, but I'm not going to hand over my full activity in the monero community because of some childish provocations to random guy on the internet 14:32:51 That guy on gitlab too, started attacking myself by wow your account is new so shut up, lets just focus on the main topic as a "community driven open source project" shall we? 14:35:34 *developer and proposals reputation 14:35:35 This is basically centralization in the long run, your saying we wont let people we dont approve to get funded by the "community" in the "community crowdfunding system" 14:35:37 It should be up to the community to support what they want 14:35:39 Just like how luke gathered 3k xmr in a few days because of his reputation in the community 14:35:41 Sorry for that if you were genuine. We had spamming account issue at last proposal. That's why ajs thinked you were just another one of ofrn's alt or fan. But it seems to me you have nuance and I can believe you are genuine 14:37:03 you seems a little confused here. It's not just its reputation. the 3k xmr has been donated through the GF and a small set of wealthy individuals 14:38:44 And when that community repeatedly sees fresh accounts that keep showing up out of nowhere just to support that one guy who keeps causing problems and drama and demanding massive amounts of money upfront, we speak up and work to protect the project from potential/suspected/confirmed bad actors 14:39:40 That 3k was a matter of time even if the core team blocked the proposal as a scandal or not being up to our standards 14:39:41 Shifting from the current system to community/dev/coordinator system is a lot more healthier, faster and innovation friendly and specially decentralized in the long run 14:40:27 I said you can talk to devs yourself right? 14:42:19 For example: the way you refer to "Luke" :) 14:42:21 Who, by the way, does actual, tangible work 14:44:57 Brand yourself as a trustworthy CCS auditor and help people choose what are the best projects to support, you literally want to choose forcefully for the people, just giving them limited options, "support my approved ones or leave" 14:44:59 Try to give advice instead like how you are doing right now I suppose? 14:45:57 There are no such trustless organization 14:46:55 Its 600XMR, of 3k, GF donated only 600 14:46:57 This is a separate topic of why GF is handed over to a single entity without even a single transparent report(give a monthly report at the very least) 14:46:59 But lets not open this up for now 14:48:06 Love the guy not going to lie 14:48:53 Where is the audit report for the CCS "hack" fiasco? 14:49:13 Yes but there are less dictated ones and fully dictated ones 14:50:16 Oh Boy😄 14:50:25 py.verse: fwiw, binaryFate said he would publish a new transparency report soon 14:50:45 Are we going to jump into the windows is bad debate 🍿 14:51:03 just asking :) 14:51:14 "Choose forcefully for the people" - you mean like ofrn has done, very loudly and proudly, for years? Throwing shit towards anyone who didn't meet his personal standards to the t and steamrolling the conversation when people disagreed with him? 14:51:15 Just like with his previous obvious scam proposal that got closed less than 24 hours ago, this one would also definitely not have passed his "quality control". He would be yelling off the top of his lungs about the massive amounts of money requested upfront, and calling the author(s) scammers and thiefs, who take away money from the donors and then there's no money left for the other projects 14:51:29 Yes the transparency report request was ACKd here https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/998 14:52:13 Hello there :) Hope I don't interupt. 14:52:50 So it seems only fair to hold "the holy defender of Monero" up to the same standards that he has been so kindly enforcing for years (minus the unnecessary vitriol) 14:53:07 For transparency, I just asked tecnovert and crz in direct message if they were aware of the proposal and if they supported it. I'll relay their response in this channel, if they allow me to do so. 14:53:28 I heard that every time i mentioned this for more than 9 months now. 14:53:29 Im not saying he is eating away from GF 14:53:31 But avoiding transparency is super sus 14:53:33 And monerobull said something really funny when he/she was defending bynaryfate that added a lot to the concerns 14:55:22 Can I work on any bounty it's open already for years without any progress in the last time, or is this a no go? I have done my first, because we about to starve and don't know what to do, and I'm pretty AnCap and lved a long time from moneros. So I want only know if it makes any sense to go this path or I will simply dig me even deeper? 14:55:47 March 2023 was the last report https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/11fslu9/monero_general_fund_transparency_report_march_2023/ 14:56:18 Iirc there is a time limit in which the monero are transmitted to the General fund 14:56:28 1 year of inactivity iirc 14:56:36 Better yet: they should join the channel and speak up for themselves! :D 14:56:39 Feel free to let them know that we accept proposal with multiple authors. And that having a manager/proxy doesn't mean they will have a better shot at this. Just in case they didn't know. 14:56:40 vThor : #monero-bounties ? Or the CCS? 14:57:05 Both 14:57:20 I'll try to address this if they respond 14:57:44 but tbf it clearly sounds like you want to move ofrxmr out of the proposal 14:58:02 Express your interest in taking over an "abandoned" proposal and the community can review 14:58:42 I wanted today implement the Background sync, and the X bot, after that I would like to finish MoneroSigner and I have a bigger project sinse years in my head I never did, because I was always busy. Now I'm dead broke in hell :D (humor is if you anyway laugh). 14:58:47 Enforcing means forcefully closing his proposal, you can shit talk too if you want, btw are you sure that his proposals will get fully funded? 14:58:49 I'm just saying leave that choice to people, ofc you can write about your concerns on X, gitlab or anywhere you like but i blocked it because i dont like him or i think he will scam should change to, dont support him i think he is a scammer. 14:58:51 This is the most high level abstraction of my words, idk if you still avoid getting my point or not 14:59:39 * vThor want move ofrxmr out of the proposal? 14:59:52 Thanks, finally someone doing some shit instead of arguing for the sake of killing time here😑 15:00:23 How long is normally the turnaround time between finishing a bounty and get paid if everything is well? 15:01:05 Depends, no more than a week normally 15:01:59 Holly molly :S 15:02:08 Bounties site specifics in #monero-bounties. SeedSigner CCS has had several complaints over progress (or lack of) and appears to be diving into areas of scope creep that will delay it further. E.g. polyseed implementation in python... Is that neccasary? Or an add on for later? I Don't know.. 15:03:11 plowsof: thank you 15:04:18 Finally from: fuck anything with the name ofrnxmr, regardless of the people involved or the trouble he is providing solution for. To 15:04:19 Let's talk with the devs directly to better address the problem 15:04:21 vThor: Which background sync bounty? By the way, bounties are usually discussed in #monero-bounties 15:04:52 Finally from: fuck anything with the name ofrnxmr, regardless of the people involved or the trouble he is providing a solution for. To 15:04:53 Let's talk with the devs directly to better address the problem 15:09:36 m-relay: thank you, went there :) 15:12:34 Same argument I heard from another random someone, about the previous proposal. Huh. 15:12:35 The CCS platform is not a place for scammers to try their luck where we just let them roll the dice as many times as they want. If you try to screw with the system and steal from the community, you get the boot. And if you don't like the way the system works, then you are free to go somewhere else. 15:12:37 And regarding the "shittalking": this is the place where community meetings happen. This is the place where proposals and issues get discussed. I'm just doing my part in raising awareness about the issues in the latest proposal made by a notoriously problematic user. If there are many problems with the proposal and its author, then negative reactions are to be expected 15:15:04 wow you went from supporting him to "fuck him" on a dime. nice try but we already clocked you brah 🤣 15:16:48 Exactly. This project does not need a manager and the funds that would otherwise be paid to ofrnxmr should be paid to the devs. 15:17:15 I don't have anything against him personally. However he should describe exactly what his managerial position entails. 15:26:51 "I heard from random someone" 15:26:53 You're just targeting anyone who opposes your opinion regardless of topic or argument 15:26:55 "If you don't like my way of doing, leave, i own the project" 15:26:57