05:00:59 <m-relay> <d​m4you:matrix.org> Does trocador block Tor?
05:01:28 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:kernal.eu> No
05:01:37 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:kernal.eu> It has a hidden site also
10:17:44 <m-relay> <x​mrfamily:matrix.org> You don't have to miss out on
13:11:07 <plowsof> community meeting in 1hr50 mins for those around https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1018 
13:11:41 <plowsof> https://live.monerokon.org/ looks broken 
13:11:44 <nioCat> will not be able to make it
13:12:11 <nioCat> was working for me
13:12:20 <plowsof> you've already made it, we all have 
13:12:52 <nioCat> there is also a u tube link 4 live streem
13:12:55 <plowsof> first they attacked the charts.. and now theyre coming for our live streams. 
13:13:58 <plowsof> ah yes, YT live stream link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Zmmp6cei4 (coffee break currently)
13:14:15 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> working fine for me
13:14:26 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> live monerokon
13:14:30 <m-relay> <r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Working for me as wel
13:14:48 <nioCat> plowsof: turn it off and on again
14:54:02 <m-relay> <f​reeross:monero.social> Hi. I believe there is about to be a workgroup meeting. Does it take place here with text messages only?
14:54:35 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yes
14:55:07 <m-relay> <f​reeross:monero.social> SyntheticBird: ok, thanks ...
15:01:30 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> Meeting time
15:01:57 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> During Serai talk perfect timing
15:02:26 <plowsof> indeed, quite the clash https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1018 
15:03:40 <plowsof> at any rate id just like to share some stuff here, p2pool/sech1 is now beginning to test merge mining support, a guide to join should hopefully come soon 
15:03:43 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Hi
15:03:46 <msvb-lab> Hello.
15:05:15 <plowsof> hello! and directly related to that would be the testnet hardfork, which spackle is working on a release for. great initiative to help find/solve problems when monerod is under load 
15:05:39 <m-relay> <h​into:monero.social> hello
15:05:54 <m-relay> <j​0j0xmr:monero.social> Hello.
15:06:19 <plowsof> johnr365 has released a new monero quick facts documents https://resilience365.com/monero-quick-facts/ , thank you
15:06:40 <plowsof> the old material from monero outreach was well, old and offline*
15:07:49 <plowsof> monerokon live stream: https://live.monerokon.org/ (if yo have issues viewing here, the YT link should work)
15:08:01 <plowsof> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Zmmp6cei4
15:09:50 <plowsof> basicswap-bash update: [releases ofrnxmr](https://github.com/nahuhh/basicswap-bash/releases/tag/v0.13.2-dev_wow)  Wow support? 
15:09:57 <m-relay> <x​mrack:monero.social> Hi
15:10:28 * plowsof waves
15:11:30 <plowsof> would anyone like to bring something else up? https://librejo.monerodevs.org/ from SyntheticBird , backups of some popular monero repos in the ecosystem 
15:12:49 <plowsof> https://libereco.xyz/ a monero dashboard, from snex 
15:13:15 <plowsof> feather has moved its release binaries to github after problems with hosting providers 
15:13:53 <plowsof> News: [Monero Observer](https://www.monero.observer/) - [Revuo Monero](https://revuo-xmr.com/) - [Monero Moon](https://www.themoneromoon.com/)   
15:14:25 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> People can join the stressnet right now if they want. You can compile this yourself or I think the binaries in /releases should work too: https://github.com/spackle-xmr/monero
15:14:32 <spackle> hello
15:14:46 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> You need to start the node with the `--testnet` flag
15:15:48 <m-relay> <h​into:monero.social> SyntheticBird: can the mirror support repo metadata like issues/prs/labels? there's lots of valuable info there too
15:16:08 <plowsof> datahoarder mentioned that it has already helped him to discover a bug with p2pool/stratum server :) 
15:16:15 <m-relay> <x​mrack:monero.social> Rucknium: how many GB is the stressnet?
15:16:36 <DataHoarder> with my own consensus plowsof, but it's not production ready either way :)
15:16:43 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> hinto It actually can't but I was going to work on a daemon to sync all of these. I was actually going to dm you about it
15:16:43 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> I think we are about 10GB now. I will check
15:16:59 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> We hardfork the main testnet, so we have that DB size already
15:19:18 <DataHoarder> unrelated question but I probably have an IRC<->Matrix AppService soon ready for usage, also has DMs and such.
15:19:42 <DataHoarder> might be good to have a place to put this that can give it a /48 of IPv6 or similar
15:19:55 <plowsof> syntheticbird hinto : i found a github repo that scrape sissues comments but i didnt book mark it but i think the tools exist already
15:21:05 <m-relay> <h​into:monero.social> incoming non-Monero-related-but-kind-of CCS? bitcoin has gitian, monero has "full-repo-mirrorer"
15:21:19 <plowsof> nice Datahoarder, that would help our ecosystem hugely (as does the current m-relay without those features even)
15:21:31 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> 9GB now
15:21:57 <plowsof> feather has GUIX and soon monreo
15:22:32 <DataHoarder> feel free to poke me to talk about it after the meeting is done
15:23:29 <plowsof> will do. and the news sites News: [Monero Observer](https://www.monero.observer/) - [Revuo Monero](https://revuo-xmr.com/) - [Monero Moon](https://www.themoneromoon.com/)   
15:23:35 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> D​ataHoarder: Could you help us set up the current-version relay bot to relay between IRC and Matrix rooms for stressnet discussion?
15:24:07 <plowsof> ive created the monero-stressnet room on matrix/monero social. #monero-stressnet on irc is awaiting registration from luigi soon
15:25:13 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> The current IRC room is with double #'s   ##monero-stressnet
15:26:08 <plowsof> lets try to go over the massive merge list on the ccs 
15:26:15 <plowsof>   b. [New Monero Website](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450)    
15:26:53 <plowsof> has been reduced to 1 milestone now and a reduction in rates as the scope is smaller 
15:27:01 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Merge
15:27:07 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> for the sake of humanity
15:28:08 <DataHoarder> sure, lemme see
15:28:11 <plowsof> perhaps a "alternative getmonero" title or something else people will be asking when new site. but im happy with it after the  changes
15:28:36 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> +1 merge. The preview looks great. It's about time gm.org gets a treat. As I said before, ping me if I can be of any assistance. We should formalize and strengthen website workgroup.
15:28:38 <DataHoarder> will do after meeting ends, as it takes a restart of bridge
15:28:57 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Don't think it'd be wise to label it as alternative site though.
15:29:40 <plowsof> we can postulate  all we want about strengthening it, but there are issues and pull requests open 
15:29:53 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Quick suggestion, considering it's a big list of proposals to go through, simply ask for 👍/👎, if against merge, explain succinctly why.
15:30:03 <m-relay> <h​into:monero.social> seems like it has support - is this going to be integrated immediately? or is it just being written?
15:30:12 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Otherwise we will not be able to go through all within the meeting hour.
15:30:40 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Most pages are outdated and there are pages not written
15:30:57 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> plowsof then let's work on closing those and merging the website proposal. chch3003 has been waiting for weeks.
15:31:15 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes, It's been a month actually
15:31:18 <plowsof> ch3003 has not attended a meeting yet or contributed to current -site 
15:31:38 <plowsof> has enough support for merge as-is now 
15:31:54 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 🚀
15:32:24 <plowsof> waiting for x time does not mean 'merge it' either 
15:32:36 <plowsof> it was changed only a few days ago
15:32:42 <m-relay> <h​into:monero.social> I meant after the proposal is finished, will https://getmonero.org send you to this design after the proposal is done?
15:32:45 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Who implied that? Haha.
15:33:04 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Next!
15:33:27 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The website will first be english only so I'm also asking myself the same question
15:33:44 <plowsof> hinto no, this is only going to be the functional english version as i understand... translations ... cms perhaps not yet created  
15:34:24 <plowsof> heres what it could be ... do ya like it ,, ok lets gather more support 
15:34:24 <m-relay> <h​into:monero.social> okay was just wondering since I would assume the backend admin has to set everything up
15:34:40 <plowsof> the back end admin has to set up translate.getmonero.org also 
15:34:50 <plowsof> 1+ year down the line
15:34:57 <plowsof> ok lets go to the next
15:35:01 <plowsof>   c. [How to mine Monero guide](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/451)    
15:35:28 <plowsof> still the same updoots as previous meeting, 2 
15:36:42 <plowsof> i left a comment about the rates compared to the 1st proposal 
15:38:27 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I don't see any obstacle except the rates.
15:38:36 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm all for it when they answer it
15:38:48 <plowsof> maybe not even an obstable, maybe theyre fine, im just asking about the change 
15:38:57 <plowsof> we can move on then?
15:39:42 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes
15:39:57 <plowsof> im skipping i2p SAM until a dev comes forward and/or leaving the on-going bounty to show the support in the community for said amounts/estimates 
15:40:30 <plowsof>   e. [ofrnxmr feat. BasicSwapDEX - take over the world pt 2](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/457)    
15:40:46 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> funny, the basic swap dex talk just started
15:40:53 <kazumi> cool
15:41:08 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:m.datura.network> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/m.datura.network/yygEBHCjjNuuoXUXZSFCUmwO
15:42:28 <plowsof> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Zmmp6cei4 Day 2 monerokon 
15:43:09 <plowsof> theres not been any changes to the proposal since the last meeting, waiting for luigi to look at merges now 
15:45:38 <plowsof> i think we can move on for now then, thanks for mentioning the bsx talk syntheticbird 
15:46:01 <plowsof>   f. [Monero Poker Infrastructure Project](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/461)    
15:46:36 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> I like the general idea of the BasicSwapDEX proposal. IMHO it would be much better if it was just the milestone 0 or 0+1 so we can see how the project develops with new energy. It also says that the funds should be held by plowsof. I have seen no info about whether he is willing to do that.
15:47:42 <plowsof> "there are zero upsides to holding community funds" someone said, and i agree. we can figure something out (multisig/RINO) and i am ok to be involved there 
15:49:02 <plowsof> ms0 would be all upfront so nothing to hold 
15:49:10 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> IMHO it would be nice to have an update from tobtoht about development progress on good UX for multisig
15:50:34 <plowsof> +1 and for monero poker, i left a comment there,  from some feedback i seen here about xmr.poker not really being popular.. not sure what the point of this would be 
15:50:54 <plowsof> skipping "  g. [Create and manage a peer-to-peer trading room on Matrix for people wanting to buy and sell Monero with no KYC](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/462)    " 
15:51:17 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I think its useless now since Haveno is kinda succeeding slowly
15:51:37 <plowsof> skipping closed source "  h. [Mobazha with Monero in Privacy Ecommerce](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/463)    " although they have reached out to woodser regarding haveno ui / possible mobile apps 
15:51:58 <plowsof>   i. [Development of New CCS Proposal Platform](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/464)    
15:52:10 <plowsof> from FreeRoss 
15:52:16 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> plowsof: can you make sure that the communication actually happens. I think the Mobazha devs said that the DM wasn't successful
15:52:35 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> They don't have to even talk in DMs anyway
15:52:42 <plowsof> eh oh right thanks 
15:53:07 <plowsof> when i first read the proposal it looked like something chatgpt spat out, am i the only one? but freeross seems serious about this 
15:53:32 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Or fix Matrix.org federation, which is its own big problem. I think Matrix.org is saying that it's a problem with monero.social server. So admins should narrow down what the problem is or
15:53:48 <plowsof> so far we've seen no evidence of his claims, but they have opened a bounty up ~@ https://bounties.monero.social/posts/128/0-000m-a-tor-based-mobile-web-app-for-secure-seed-phrase-storage so i guess we'll see some proof of work 
15:54:04 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yes, I think FreeRoss is victim of corpo talk symptoms, tho it do not undermine its proposal
15:54:15 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Very interesting, I'm looking forward for it
15:54:21 <plowsof> note the amount of text in tte bounty again
15:54:24 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> ┻━┻ ︵╰ (° °╰)
15:55:11 <plowsof> ill reach out to pigeons again about that Rucknium, he had some leads as to what was going on
15:55:21 <plowsof>   j. [Monero Signer Resurrection: Reviving and Enhancing the Monero Signing Project](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/465)    
15:55:26 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Is there any obnscale to his proposal right now ? Its clear and detailed
15:55:27 <vthor> :)
15:55:38 <vthor> Hi
15:55:53 <plowsof> the proposal has juuust been edited i see, revealing some completed items and new tasks 
15:56:05 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> plowsof I'd suggest closing the skipped proposals and the new CCS one. Imho.
15:56:17 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Helps consolidation.
15:56:25 <plowsof> thank you rottenwheel 
15:56:30 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Why closing the new CCS one ?
15:56:45 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> If anything, take the suggestions as personal downvotes, should the final decision differ.
15:57:11 <plowsof> for the new ccs there are generic proof of work questions to be answered first other than large texts 
15:57:14 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> I don't see the need for a new system, he should feel welcome to make PRs and issues to improve current one. That's my 2 cents though.
15:57:42 <plowsof> and we have several systems, rottenwheel shared some uhm wowneros .. firo... zcash for example 
15:57:48 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> As for seedsigner CCS, +1 from me. I got a couple spare seedsigner boards ready to test. Ping me if you need anything. vthor
15:57:56 <plowsof> do they all need to be reinvented ground up? from 1 person? will it be better?
15:58:09 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Regarding j. Monero Signer Resurrection. +1
15:58:34 <plowsof> for seedsigner , 2 questions, fire hackerindustrials yes/no - transfer the raised moneros entirely to vthor yes/no 
15:58:47 <vthor> :) I would somebody who could test the Dockerfile on macOS, how it seems it is not viable to build the emulator on macOS and I can not run docker on my VM :/
15:59:35 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Donors might wonder why they are paying twice for one thing. Is the proposal to award the funds that are already in the CCS fund to vthor if he/she completes the tasks in the original proposal?
15:59:56 <plowsof> this is a more extreme version of recanmann taking over the monero integrations proposal. but i support it currently. the community has nothing to lose here IMO and progrss has surpassed what hackerindustrials has accomplished in > 1 year in < 1 month 
16:00:19 <plowsof> yes it will go to work in progress and the current signer, closed 
16:00:27 <plowsof> if successful 
16:00:46 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> More feedback: If the code has a problem, people could lose funds, or not? I think vthor might not be experienced enough in cryptography to make sure that the code is completely safe. But he could get the code to beta state to be examined by someone or even audited
16:01:06 <vthor> I hope on Monday I have the first image for the hardware und would preferable not wasting much time for win32/macOS emulator, it was mainly to show the progress and while I ave not all the hardware yet (I have in the meanwhile).
16:01:20 <plowsof> the original tasks (some of) have been voided by recent advancements in the ecosystem, e.g. polyseed support is extra.. monero gui support,.. extra... Monero UR (which feather and ANON suppoer) replaces the old 'PortableQR' which hackerindustrials made 
16:01:49 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Ok so more of a "hostile takeover" than recanman's. Which is fine
16:02:00 <plowsof> rottenwheel was funded by the community to attend monerokon this year, via kuno and currently has a ccs open
16:02:03 <plowsof>   k. [Revuo Monero maintenance (2024 Q3)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/466)    
16:03:00 <plowsof> the community had invested 8kusd (xmr equivalent) into monero moon via the ccs per https://text.is/X9910/raw @ 300 ~ per issue , and this proposal is 100$ per issue
16:03:05 <plowsof> food for thought 
16:04:29 <m-relay> <h​into:monero.social> +1 to transferring old seedsigner funds to vthor if it means work will actually get done
16:05:17 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> I lean toward +1 to vthor's proposal
16:06:26 <m-relay> <c​t:xmr.mx> +1 for seedsigner, very cool project
16:07:10 <plowsof> promises of 45 days from now to completion with major progress (surpassing the original author) 
16:07:28 <vthor> rucknium I don't understand how people could lose fund's through "not enough experienced" in cryptgraphy. The device is meant to be airgapped and offline. The generation of the keys is done via dices and random data vom camera like SeedSigner. I'm not a cryptographer, but I dedicate myself a long time with cryptography, well mostly in secure communication.
16:08:28 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> For example, through the Monero burning bug. If you don't know what that is yet, you will need to learn about it.
16:09:03 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Or make funds unrecoverable through corrupted keys, sending XMR into a black hole
16:09:12 <vthor> I need to mention that I didn't sleep yet and maybe (happens sometimes) I got it in the wrong way. Could you please later address your conserns to me in a private chat?
16:09:25 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> No
16:09:38 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> There is not reason not to do it in a public channel
16:09:50 <vthor> rucknium, ok, I will need to learn about monero burning bug.
16:10:01 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Thank you
16:11:01 <vthor> Okay, only didn't wont to disturb the meeting, but wanted to now the conserns :)
16:11:41 <plowsof> the meeting is all but over unless
16:11:46 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> I read a book about open source. It said to have as many conversations in public so they can be referenced later, observers can see what's going on, etc. It made sense to me
16:13:09 <vthor> Was not to hide anything, honestly, couldn't figure out how to take it. But your response made sense to me.
16:13:21 <DataHoarder> I'll cycle the bridge so it gets the new channel
16:13:51 <plowsof> any other business?
16:14:11 <DataHoarder> untimely restart
16:14:18 <plowsof> xD
16:14:41 <plowsof> going over-time has its consequences, my apologies 
16:15:45 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> For example, jeffro256 would be a good person to talk to about any risks that users may have with MoneroSigner. He's at MoneroKon right now, so he will be slow to respond probably.
16:16:01 <vthor> rucknium, do you have links to monero burn bug, you would suggest?
16:16:40 <DataHoarder> https://www.getmonero.org/2018/09/25/a-post-mortum-of-the-burning-bug.html
16:16:44 <plowsof> apologies for going over time, thank you for attending, and wishing a continued pleasant Monerokon experience for all. now back to the burning bug 
16:17:06 <vthor> rucknium, I will reach out to him next week :) Thank you
16:17:19 <vthor> thank you DataHoarder
16:18:24 <DataHoarder> also burning via reusing ephemeral pubkeys https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/4163/can-a-one-time-public-key-be-used-for-more-than-one-payment
16:18:29 <m-relay> <h​into:monero.social> thanks everyone
16:18:46 <DataHoarder> (was an issue on p2pool outputs with tx private keys chosen by miner in a non-deterministic way)
16:22:38 <msvb-lab> Dankon very much for the good meeting and great moderation, chao.
16:32:41 <vthor> Hm, it looks like it affects something else I'm planing, but not really MoneroSigner, how I see it until now, because the unsigned transaction will be generated in Monero-GUI or another wallet and then only address(es) and amount(s) verified by the user before signing, and then signed by the OfflineWallet of monero-python. So if there are issues they should be in monero-python or Monero-GUI. I will change in Monero-GUI/monero-python only the absolute 
16:32:42 <vthor> necessary. In case of Monero-GUI the only real difference should be that the unsigned transaction is not written to the filesystem but sent via UR to the monero signer, and then the signed transaction also incomming via UR to Monero-GUI instead from th filesystem. But I will think on a calmer moment about it and will ask next we also jeffro256 about suggestions.
16:50:39 <m-relay> <c​t:xmr.mx> Sorry for missing the meeting, was at the same time as serai and bsx talks 🙃
17:49:18 <m-relay> <n​o_2:matrix.org> cangrejo:  of BSX is currently on the MoneroTalk live stream broadcasting from MoneroKon.
21:27:58 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> vThor: Here's another one: If a wallet seed has insufficient entropy, thieves can steal the coins even if the wallet is airgapped.
21:30:02 <sech1> he's gone already
21:31:40 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> See, if he was using Matrix his client would tell him he had a missed message when he logs back in :D
21:32:05 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> guys when do we migrate meetings on Discord?
21:32:10 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> /s
23:00:07 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> We defederate Matrix org and call it ID.
23:01:03 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> If they don't like it well then it sucks to be you. Maybe you should be joining a smaller instance. Anyway, instead of contributing to centralization.
23:01:34 <m-relay> <s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> We defederate Matrix org and call it a day.
23:08:10 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Or we fire monero.social's admins for not getting to the bottom of the problem. Is it Cypher Stack?
23:21:11 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Rucknium: yes/no? I believe it's Dan Miller (pigeons) who sysadmins monero.social Matrix instance.
23:55:22 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Coincards available in the EU now! 
23:55:24 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> - https://xcancel.com/CoinCards/status/1799490605367607353
23:55:26 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> - https://coincards.com/eu