02:03:53 ct, thank you for the message! :) 06:12:37 Just now messing with Haveno, seems like it could very well shape up to be a viable alternative to LocalMonero. Will make an offer this week 06:14:17 Is Haveno Reto what I'm supposed to be using 06:26:52 yes 06:29:12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6B5xtWrohw 06:33:21 I've seen this before and actually already have it downloaded. Atomic swaps seem like the way to go for crypto to crypto, but haveno seems like the best bet going forward for fiat <-> xmr 09:55:43 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/ovmleSSnKywWhrPZFPdHHpdI 09:56:32 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/KgHODZioxEDhJgJHTNHEEgEp 09:58:09 i feel sorry for people that work at a help desk 09:58:40 <123bob123:matrix.org> We have sso ???? 09:59:52 <123bob123:matrix.org> OIDC when 10:00:04 if you have not written your facebook id down on paper theres nothing we can do for you, sorry 10:03:23 MyMonero supports login with Facebook? 10:04:11 oh i see, via third party auth/login. i don't know, now that makes this plausible lol 10:07:36 i can still access facebook you sure it was deleted? 12:36:43 I was invited to speak at https://shieldingsummit.org about Monero 12:36:54 10 July, Brussels 12:37:05 I am unavailable around that time 12:37:19 Anyone close by interested in giving a talk there? 17:11:36 Not sure it was posted here already -> https://x.com/ray_noOnes/status/1803006129129029875 18:22:39 Hi team, any word on trading Monero on something like Kraken? I'm not seeing it listed on getmonero.org 18:23:30 its on kraken in some countries but ideally you shouldn't be using those exchanges 18:44:01 People are p2p trading on telegram 18:44:17 > <@shadow06:matrix.org> Hi team, any word on trading Monero on something like Kraken? I'm not seeing it listed on getmonero.org 18:44:18 People are p2p trading on telegram, it's disorganized and prone to scams but it's what's working right now 18:44:30 This doesn't seem ideal :/ 18:46:29 Yeah kraken isn’t that good 18:46:41 are you trying to trade monero for national currency or for another crypto? the latter is much easier 19:01:51 Kraken is listed on getmonero though 19:28:23 Want to bring to attention that I kindly request the payout for the first Milestone I finished some time before the proposal got merged: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/commit/d7333af5b03d8339708cb6890dde019d80d21c50#note_25009 and hope that the odds in my favor because the money issue reduces my productivity at least 50%. 19:44:56 ^^^^ plowsof @plowsof:libera.chat plowsof @plowsof:monero.social 19:46:55 Thanks for ping, request has been ACK'd and payout soon(tm) 19:47:38 8) thank you very much! That make life and coding so much easier :) 19:47:40 Nice work vthor. You've surpassed the original project already 19:48:27 <321bob321:monero.social> Tbh it didnt take much to do that 19:48:29 plowsof: :D Thank you 19:48:33 Oh slight change to the place you should comment 19:49:40 plowsof: how you mean that? related to the URI's? 19:50:03 https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/%20MoneroSignerResurrection.html people usually go from here to see updates voa the bottom link ''view discussion...' @ https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/465 19:50:35 Oh nevermind, youve got one here too :+1 19:51:24 Okay, because now I'm confused 19:52:31 :D probably catch all, how I told, I feel at the moment like a monkey pushing all buttons in the hope that one button will release food. 19:54:13 I got it also probably wrong and edited the description (updated the checkboxes part and wrote Done on first milestone (instead of expected time frame), should I restore it from the markdown file, or let it? Would it not be better to have them updated? 20:35:40 that would be done in a merge request, and can be merged, but not important now, its the norm to post in the comments if you make any major progress and/or milestones (not daily, but weekly/biweekly/monthly 20:37:48 okay, so I will later copy the old state back to the description. 20:47:04 We are at 500MB in the txpool on stressnet. This may be the largest Monero txpool ever: https://monitor.stressnet.net/ 20:55:19 I was hoping to trade $ for monero, but I'm in the US. 20:56:04 Xmrbazaar.com and click earn xmr 20:56:13 I was just curious if there was a roadmap or any plans that we know of. 20:56:37 niOtC 20:57:08 niOTC 20:57:13 https://matrix.to/#/!gQJbRTGiTuVmJhnVGe:matrix.org?via=monero.social&via=matrix.org&via=m.datura.network 20:57:51 try using haveno, it's p2p trading with an arbitrator to prevent scams 20:58:07 not much volume on haveno last time I checked though 21:06:43 since launch last month it had 410 xmr volume 21:06:59 really not a whole lot but its growing 21:39:46 either kraken with kyc or https://github.com/retoaccess1/haveno-reto 21:40:23 haveno is working 21:41:00 telegram p2p with random people without escrow is like playing russian roulette with 5 bullets 21:41:49 I can't think of an easier way to get scammed 21:45:33 Agreed 21:45:58 I'll have to look into that repo. I didn't see Kraken listed, but I have no problem using it. I understand it limits my privacy. 21:46:21 That being said I've seen some cool privacy pool smart contracts. 21:46:36 those are pretty flawed 21:46:46 no real privacy without privacy on the base layer 21:46:56 yeah I wouldn't rely on any of that 21:47:55 Agreed. I'm doing a lot of learning right now. Does Monero support smart contracts? 21:48:18 monerodocs.org seems down for me :( 21:48:25 no, no contracts or scripts or anything 21:48:30 it's just payments and it does that well 21:48:53 Just casually dropping monero prices on the sly. 21:49:02 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/KxyhPbeQRVkHdlPKRITdJaju 21:50:48 no 21:51:06 we have multisig and a really useless implementation of timelocks, that's about it 21:51:18 and the multisig is very limited 21:51:20 Multisig is nice though 21:52:02 getmonero.dev archive 21:52:14 The privacy pool stuff using zkProofs is really cool, but requires a highly sophisticated user to be truly private. It would be so much nicer if the L1 was privacy preserving. 21:52:47 I imagine if bitcoin supported smart contracts natively and could scale it would be a solution too 21:52:52 if you already have crypto, serai.exchange will probably be the best way to get monero 21:53:34 But this is all pie in the sky hopes and dreams talk. I appreciate the resources. FYI here in Austin, TX monerodocs.org is down :( 21:54:13 >pie in the sky hopes and dreams talk 21:54:15 it really isnt 21:54:20 serai is nearly done 21:55:00 the concept has already been demonstrated to work by thorchain and serai greatly improves on that 21:55:02 a PoW L1 that can do 10kTPS would be nice 21:55:20 monero can in theory do that 21:55:28 but you would never ever need that many tps 21:55:39 To replace the $ you would in my opinion 21:56:00 imo it is silly to believe crypto will ever come anywhere near close to that 21:56:19 We are no where close to replacing $, baby steps 21:56:21 Something has to.... I guess the Yuan is an alternative 21:56:34 youll get CBDCs soon enough 21:56:36 We are no where close to replacing fiat, baby steps 21:56:43 and thats when more and more people will adopt something like monero 21:56:59 But then monero will break :( 21:57:05 but it will most likely always remain as a parallel economy type thing 21:57:09 no? 21:57:27 Have we seen a blockchain with >1M active users work? 21:57:41 1 million tx per day is already easily possible today 21:57:55 What blockchain does 1M Tx daily? 21:58:09 I am probably missing something 21:58:31 of real world transactions, no smart contracts? 21:58:37 Either is interesting right now 21:58:42 Tx is tx 21:58:52 no 21:58:54 it really isnt 21:59:00 you cant compare monero tx count to eths 21:59:27 Bitcoin does 400-600k daily 21:59:33 To me it is. I'm sitting here thinking there isn't a blockchain that can support >1M active users or ~3M tx daily 21:59:40 You can they are buying selling their “shit” tokens with those contracts 21:59:47 we could even handle 10 million tx per day but we'd loose a bunch of nodes to storage constraints 22:00:09 bandwidth is fine though 22:00:29 above 10 million we likely need a few more years of average internet speeds increasing 22:00:42 I think 10k TPS is the limit of the internet currently 22:00:54 eth has a fuckton more bots than monero 22:01:33 for example for turning many regular transactions (someone swapping) into 3 transactions through sandwich attacks 22:01:36 I was just thinking... we need something to replace the $, otherwise when it breaks, people will move and then that will break. 22:01:55 the dollar wont become worthless over night 22:01:56 Actions done by bots are also transactions, he doesn’t talk about real world adoption 😅 22:01:58 at least currently, based on what I know about blockchains, which is probably limited 22:02:09 yeah but monero simply doesnt have those 22:02:15 so you cant compare eth tx count with moneros 22:02:39 monero can dynamically scale 22:02:42 Tx count on blockchain chain increases on eth chain ? 22:02:47 to meet demand 22:03:24 Is there anything that's proved something close to 10k TPS? I understand thats the current limit of the internet, blockchain or no. 22:04:17 I believe 10k TPS is most of $ transactions including credit/debit cards and ACH. If we include cash and other methods it's a lot larger. 22:04:21 i dont get the point youre trying to make. my point is that eth has thousands of mev bots, the majority of transactions is automated. monero doesnt have that so any one monero transaction is more likely a real-world economic transaction (like someone buying a beer) compared to any one eth transaction 22:04:34 I'm not even thinking about ETH 22:04:55 I'm thinking about $ and I believe it will break 22:05:11 So if I pick Monero... when the $ breaks and everyone moves to monero.. will monero break due to demand? 22:05:13 we dont need 10k tps. moneros ath was during the spam attack a few months ago and it was like 1 tps 22:05:15 As I said, it’s not about real world adoption but just tx throughput on chain that I was talking about 22:05:18 So far, based on what I know, every other blockchain has broken much sooner than 10kTPS 22:06:02 nodes would majorly struggle but you dont go from 0.5 tps to 10000 tps over night 22:06:09 it would take years 22:06:32 payment channels in monero when? 22:06:38 So monero would break as in I wouldn't be able to use my funds to pay my buddy to fix my toilet 22:06:40 over the span of those years, hardware & internet speeds should improve to where 10k tps is doable 22:06:51 nah that should work 22:07:06 When the $ breaks the next tech needs to be ready... immediately? lol 22:07:08 your issue will be that you need a lot of bandwidth to run a node 22:07:24 no 22:07:26 because the $ wont break immediately 22:07:28 that is pure fiction 22:07:42 Why? It happens overnight to fiat currencies all the time 22:07:46 Look at the peso lol 22:08:02 they dont entirely die 22:08:05 this is not rick and morty 22:08:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo 22:08:12 Central banked currency will always be around and monero will always be used outside it 22:08:32 Thats what the germans thought of the frank lol 22:08:44 And they are now with euro ! 22:09:36 should either the dollar or euro go to 0 overnight, people wont have any monero anyways 22:09:38 Name will change, they will be around centuries 22:09:55 Okay, so the consensus is Monero is complimentary to fiat and we believe fiat will be dependable indefinitely until quantum computing exists and AI is ubiquitous? 22:10:11 When in reality the fiat currency is in it's infancy and in the span of the history of currencies has the least credibility? lol 22:10:14 have you seen the might of the US military? that whole thing serves to protect the dollar 22:10:40 I served in the US military... which is why I know a thing or two about where we're headed 22:10:47 this dumpster fire aint getting put out lol 22:10:57 We saw that in Afghanistan 22:11:16 yeah but it also wont suddenly turn into a nuclear explosion, at least its very unlikely. it will keep burning and become bigger and bigger over a long period of time 22:11:43 Is this the general consensus monerobull ? 22:12:33 Like a frog in warming water... lol 22:12:34 i would say that it is the most grounded-in-reality way of thinking but i cant speak for everyone 22:12:36 Monero keeps developing, 10k+ tps will come when world is ready 22:13:06 imo it is very likely monero will be able to support 10k tps on a technical level waaaaaay before it reaches that usage 22:13:17 Okay, I understand this and think it's sensible. 22:13:18 if it ever even reaches that amount of usage 22:13:33 I just believe the ball will drop faster than most people. 22:13:47 and am nervous that blockchains won't be ready in time 22:14:03 my name may be monerobull but i dont subscribe to the idea that fiat will just die out and everyone will use crypto 22:14:16 I believed the same and it won’t happen in my lifetime 22:14:20 people are waaaay to comfortable with the fiat system for that 22:15:11 When I think of the history of money... fiat seems like a huge mistake and is dieing just as fast as it was perceived. 22:15:52 it may be best in the long term if monero grows gradually, we don't want the principles to change because of mass adoption 22:16:18 Romes currency slowly died over hundreds of years 22:16:33 the people who see why something like monero is necessary are already here 22:16:44 Was that fiat? 22:17:06 Fiat was tried in china and died in ~100yrs 22:17:15 To be fair, those were at least partially backed by precious metals but the concentration got worse and worse 22:17:40 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ehr.13305 22:18:20 Fiat seems to be the mistake we keep making lol 22:18:53 Except this time the $ will crash.... the whole world 22:19:16 not just 1 nation.... but most nations. 22:19:50 With the internet people will switch to crypto in a measure of desperation... and I just hope something can handle it. 22:28:42 In your insta-chaos scenario people wouldn't even be able to get into crypto 22:29:09 Who would sell their precious Monero for literally worthless dollar 22:29:32 They could if something could handle the load! The whales would switch and prop up the method of transfer before it happens. 22:30:04 I'm not talking about the load 22:30:24 If dollar goes down 80% tomorrow, most people don't yet have crypto 22:30:50 Who would sell their crypto for a dollar that is actively imploding? 22:31:04 They wouldn't sell crypto, they'd buy crypto 22:31:12 and if I know anything, the whales will know before it happens 22:31:58 Fun fact, if you want to buy 1 Monero with dollars, someone needs to first want to sell 1 Monero for dollars 22:32:18 If everyone wants to get out of the dollar ASAP, nobody would want to get into the dollar 22:33:43 True, so the whales would rebuild the economy with their chosen currency 22:33:44 They'd end up owning all the capital 22:33:50 Not entirely 22:34:00 I'm speculating lol 22:34:10 but I do think fiat will crash quickly... 22:34:19 The dollar becoming worthless doesn't make someone's shares in apple worthless 22:34:31 No, labor would have to enter into a new agreement 22:34:47 Instead of working for $, they'd have to work for something else 22:35:27 and there would be a transition period, but it's happened in the past 22:35:30 Don't get me wrong, dollar imploding would be one of the most catastrophic financial events in human hisz 22:35:38 Don't get me wrong, dollar imploding would be one of the most catastrophic financial events in human history 22:36:30 But I still think it would happen more like it is already happening to Garbage tier fiat like the Turkish lira 22:36:54 Major loss in purchasing power, pretty quickly, but nowhere near instant 22:37:25 There would never ever be a scenario where Monero usage goes from 0.5 to 10k TPS without significant amounts of time in-between 22:39:08 Thats reasonable too 22:39:12 I'm just speculating 22:39:59