06:28:04 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/kernal.eu/SPbNCgDutcPcsMMlJzEYfJAu 06:28:06 wow. 06:39:15 Maybe if we lack a suitable person for a particular job, we should plant and rise them in a garden. Or make some woman conceive a baby genetically engineered for the job. Or hey, we could just conjure them up out of thin air with magic. So many possibilities, so many options. In no way we have to pragmatically look at what we actually have in the hard, cold, real world, compromise 06:39:16 and make a reasonable attempt to work with that. 07:08:30 that's what the government does when they are forced to publicly list a position but already have someone in mind 07:09:32 >must have 5 years experience with this specific thing and also be named Jeff from the second floor 07:22:37 rbrunner7: to be fair, the role was not publicly listed, so we don't know who would be willing to take it on for that wage. It was offered to rehrar and he was told to CCS for it. 07:28:10 <321bob321:monero.social> luigi told diego to create a ccs, that looks similar to ofrn's one 07:29:43 Well, it is similar. However, it's also a lot more succinct, and built on a greater body of established work for the community. 07:30:16 I also think rehrar's soft skills are much more apt for the role than ofrnxmr's. 07:30:30 That's my own perception, admittedly, so feel free to disagree. 07:32:30 what’s with these “soft skills” that are being touted so much? do we need an in-house politician to bring together warring factions? 07:34:24 the job is website maintainer. everything else is fluff 07:34:37 that's also fair 07:34:42 basically what ErC was doing 07:35:10 If that is the totality of the role intended by Luigi, then the CCS should state that 07:35:27 And yeah, 100k a year is ridiculous 07:35:31 that’s the title I used for the monerobull ccs 07:35:46 sure, but you haven't talked to luigi have you? 07:35:51 and it’s the first point and only actionable one from diego’s list 07:35:56 no 07:36:30 Hi Everyone, 07:36:30 So luigi1111 needs to say what tasks they want to delegate and then the proposer needs to link to a CCS that describes those tasks. 07:36:32 We (VOSTOEMISIO) and xenu just posted a new proposal to create a FCMP Animated Explainer Video, please chime in or let us know if you have any comments on it, thanks! 07:36:34 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/472 07:37:23 <321bob321:monero.social> written in a nicer way 07:38:07 <321bob321:monero.social> wtf is soft skills 07:38:09 <321bob321:monero.social> you either have the skill or you dont 07:38:21 yeah, ideally he would list the requirements for the job. hopefully they don’t include having experience working covertly for core 07:38:54 I’m still waiting for diego’s final transparency report. that was $330k worth of soft skills 07:39:56 lol. 07:40:07 these hobbits... 07:40:19 <321bob321:monero.social> that will be after cores report 07:40:40 matrix shot 07:40:55 imo the "secretary" role was so outrageous, it's insane to suggest putting the same person in a similar position again 07:41:22 “Has enough time passed so we can try this again” lol 07:42:07 what if there's nobody that does it as well as he does? 07:42:15 <321bob321:monero.social> write 0 memory 07:42:26 33 n vcx 07:42:31 cat got on keyboard. 07:43:23 imo the "secretary" role was so outrageous, it's insane to suggest putting the same person in a similar position again 07:43:38 we got it the first time! 07:46:33 ah there it is 07:46:36 7 minute delay 07:46:47 besides, i had already deleted it 07:47:04 mb: how do you envision this job? core delegates and you execute or would you be more of a self-starter in terms of making things run more smoothly 07:47:28 do you see any inefficiencies that are low-hanging fruit right now? 07:48:39 assuming the bridge works 07:49:54 geonic is warming the interview questions, i see. 07:50:03 we should make a panel 07:50:09 Ofrnxmr should probably be on it 07:50:12 what would be of this community without geonic!? 07:50:38 Good test of a person's soft skills. Ofrnxmr can go full scatter gun throughout the interview 07:51:49 fire up 5 different windows (: 07:53:28 well 07:53:33 i already do most of this stuff 07:53:47 event work? yeah we got monerokon 07:54:15 (Which is a whole lot of work) 07:54:21 community? i am everywhere with the exception of the retirement home called irc 07:55:45 retirement home called IRC? 07:56:02 are you implying jberman or jeffro256 are old and decrepit? 07:56:12 last I checked they were youngings! 07:56:36 so i guess the main part that is new is the website maintenance which is really similar to modding reddit if you think about it. check that you dont approve garbage, update outdated things, etc. 07:57:14 boomer is a mindset 07:57:25 ok zoomer. 07:58:02 Asking people to squash also 07:58:46 plowsof: squash deez nutz. 08:04:28 yeah it seems the real job is the website. maybe reviving #monero-site and running meetings… 08:05:05 have u looked at the redesign proposal for the website? what are your thoughts on it 08:05:08 <321bob321:monero.social> but erc got paid 35xmr for 3 months 08:06:21 and plowsof is getting 69 (when he remembers) 08:11:50 If the job includes a website redesign and redeployment, it should be stated. 08:12:01 diego would probably be good at that 08:12:11 Monerobull might be as well, i suppose 08:12:14 <321bob321:monero.social> but there is already ccs for that 08:12:19 ah ok 08:12:25 Ignore me 08:12:47 <321bob321:monero.social> but core i think said no 08:13:05 redesign is not happening? 08:13:25 But yeah, can we please just outline the tasks more clearly then. i feel i am going round in circles. It's fun, as you're all fun people, but i gotta shitty day job to do too. 08:14:08 <321bob321:monero.social> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450 08:15:45 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450#note_24915 08:17:43 useful comment. so this is a workgroup leader/maintainer position 08:19:07 monerobull I imagine luigi’s first interview question would be whether you have any web experience 08:20:39 see you mañana! 08:20:53 well there is monerosupplies (bad exaple, i started that like 3 years ago with very little experience and monero.town which is more everything around running a web-service, not directly about the site but stuff like certificates, database, etc 08:22:54 <321bob321:monero.social> dont leaders just point and shout 08:23:07 <321bob321:monero.social> get the minions to do it 08:23:27 <321bob321:monero.social> deigo shouts at plowsof to do it 08:26:55 Erc didnt have merge powers, nor deployment powers 08:27:46 Diego's ccs isnt just website maintainer, and its DEFINITELY not "do what core tells him" 08:37:44 Website maintenance isnt a 1 person job. Maintainer != maintenance. Maintainer is in reference to git repo powers 08:38:47 The website is open source , PRs and reviews should be done by community 08:38:55 (as they currently are) 08:41:02 plowsof works on site already, but has no maintainer powers. He can make a list of 20 prs that are reviewed, squashed, conflicts resolved, ready to be merge, but then is forced to wait for luigi to merge them 08:42:52 Loogi are merging powers in -site up for grabs with this new complementary role for plowsof's duties? luigi1111 luigi1112 luigi1111w 08:42:55 LUIGI. 08:43:08 yes 08:47:28 plowsof does the duties largely because slow merges = merge conflicts 08:48:27 "the duties" meaning pulling in commits fron various prs into one pr and resolving all conflicts himself 08:49:53 only core have merge access to our repos. the maintainer creates a merge list. if they look sane / have valid approvals they get merged 08:52:39 ^ yeah. This is what erciccione did as "maintainer" (really just "coordinator"). Diego as maintainer would have merge powers 08:53:29 At least, that's how i understand it 08:54:08 Otherwise hes not taking work off of luigi's shoulders, hes just helping to pile it on faster 08:55:27 <321bob321:monero.social> can create "soon ™️ " label? 08:56:45 yeah, we'll make the "soon™️" label right after monero-docs 08:57:43 <321bob321:monero.social> do before and we can label that 08:58:56 soon™️ we'll make the soon™️ label. Only took a year to remove moneroaddress.org 08:59:18 Were only about 6 months into monero-docs. Give it time 08:59:53 dont worry, moneroaddress exists in all of the translated files still 09:00:06 💀 09:02:44 do I get this right that this proposal wants to switch from a static site generator (jekyll?) to another static site framework (astro)? 09:02:57 450? 09:03:10 <321bob321:monero.social> 420 09:04:14 469. 09:05:00 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450 .. 450 09:28:47 the prototype is also broken on mobile: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450#note_25154 so how can it claim "The website will be designed to be responsive, ensuring optimal viewing and interaction across various devices, including desktops, tablets, and smartphones." the current website is responsive and works on mobile. while the new one is broken 09:28:59 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/kernal.eu/ioczhWPHmDYnMAaCcGlIhsdJ 09:30:00 old one works just fine 09:30:05 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/kernal.eu/dAUnPDXIisMsapfegTeGPauV 09:30:25 I also dont get why there is a need to switch to astro? 09:30:57 it will not make a fundamental difference to jekyll and introduce new headaches 09:32:08 for sure the website should be improved. I am all for it. But at the same time it is unclear how this proposal will be an improvement. 09:42:17 "but there are still some tasks to address, such as the mobile menu, the blog page, the documentation, SVG images, etc. 09:42:17 I am not a web designer and I would need one somehow." 09:42:45 did everyone miss that part, or was it addressed 09:50:47 that is not a design problem. They are missing a media query that switches the gridsize to have only one column on small screens. 09:51:28 we can just add a dark mode to the jeykll page if this is what people want 09:51:59 instead of creating a new cluster with this astro stuff. 09:52:25 I am all for trying new stuff and new tech. But it needs to deliver value 09:58:10 I read their sentence as go mean "i dont know how to fix this" 09:58:19 s/sentence/statement 10:42:49 i like the current website D: 10:44:33 finally someone said it 10:45:01 me too 10:50:03 ack escapethe3ra / vostoemisios milestone updates 10:52:43 Lipstick on a pig, amirite 10:53:00 <321bob321:monero.social> I thought it was getting changed cause of translation 10:53:07 Need to fix the content 😅 10:53:39 Nah, it was just a proposal redesign done year(s?) Ago that janaka deckded tk i 10:53:47 to implement 10:55:02 dans thinking of https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/2140 11:15:55 🍿 11:19:06 next community meeting 6th July https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1032 11:35:45 oh goody, July 4th weekend 11:35:51 you are on a roll 11:51:02 planning 100 11:54:26 Lol erc 11:54:59 Football England vs Switzerland also, perfect chance to prove our dedication 11:55:02 I thought this scammer ragequit and then started attacking woodser and selsta 11:55:18 community? i am everywhere with the exception of the retirement home called irc <<>> it would require you to have an IRC account ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 11:57:08 <321bob321:monero.social> And community too i thought 11:59:23 He has popcorn out like were not doing better without him already 😂 11:59:50 <321bob321:monero.social> Popcorn paid by firo? 11:59:56 hey erc, i think you still need to demote yourself from a couple matrix rooms 12:00:23 Please do before you break them by downing another homeserver 12:02:01 i remember when erc told twitter not to trust diego and not to use stackwallet. Then he rugged haveno 🤣 12:02:28 I ran out of popcorn a long time ago. The erc movie is like lord or the rings, too long 12:03:06 <321bob321:monero.social> Nerds and their vendettas 12:14:49 That's a new peak of nonsense in such few time 12:15:24 stop thinking about me so much tho, you make me blush 12:16:36 I don't even know shit about you besides that you left? 12:17:03 was talking to ofrnxmr 12:17:11 links of the rooms also please 12:18:01 the one of the server is new to me btw. What's that about? 12:23:38 You banned me from the rooms, so i'm not sure if you are still admin. Site and translations 12:26:33 right, so i don't need to do anything. my bad. I thought you were saying something that wasn't a lie for once 12:27:20 you told people not to use stackwallet? thats a fact. - wheres the nonsense / lie? 12:32:40 fascinating 12:34:38 that i didnt forget? Not really 15:13:26 Oh no. Ciccione in here no, please... 15:13:47 geonic, ofrnxmr and ErC. The dream team! 15:14:05 Can anyone invite Xeagu and anonimal now? 15:23:42 _and_ rottenwheel 😱 15:34:16 ah, anonimal. Diego was Kovri coordinator too 🫠 15:36:56 Were nothing without rotten5thwheel as our retarded chicano dwarf hating crewmate 15:37:00 lol 15:37:40 +transphobic 15:38:18 forgot about that. 5th wheel that hates transmissions 15:38:22 Identity crisis 15:39:29 Ok, so I've decided to lower my price too match plowsof's after noting one of the most common issues people have is with the price. 15:40:42 Plowsof's price seemed like a jumping off point for me, and added in the cost increase of design and web skill sets seemed reasonable, but I guess it wasn't. 15:42:01 Plow's actually had a problem with inflation 15:42:29 Its not 69 anymore. So if you match, youre looking at 80.07 15:48:20 its not that ppl have a problem with price 15:48:36 Erc was getting like 50xmr/3months to do a whole lot of nothing 15:48:53 This yr has had 6 months of his job done for free 15:50:25 people are jusr counting your pockets and happy to pay themselves 25k to not deliver oscars. Geo also voted against plowsof and plowsof is, to this day, still overworked 15:50:58 iirc the most warranted issues were how the proposal is too broad and general, and the potential conflict of interest over this point: "Assisting plowsof as needed in CCS work (working under him for various tasks if needed)" 15:51:10 its not a coi 15:51:18 Luigi is king dictator of ccs 15:51:23 Plowsof isnt luigi 15:51:30 I never voted against plowsof 15:51:55 You told him to lower his rates and didnt like the proposal iirc 15:52:18 wrong. go back and read my comment 15:53:37 I commented in support then said €40/hr seemed a little high. that’s it 15:54:22 I’m also maybe the first person(?) to send plowsof some xmr for his volunteer work prior to his proposal 15:54:35 But, for example, ErCiccione's work on monero-site has been billed at 30 eur/hr. I consider that work more complicated and requiring deeper expertise, so would be hesitant to fund coordinator work on the CCS at a higher rate. 15:54:35 I think 10 hrs/week at 30 eur/hr represents a good value for the community. 15:54:55 10hrs/week is absolutely blasphemy 15:55:02 Plow bills for 20 but works like 60 15:55:50 And he only collected half of the 40 all of last year. Taking 6 months to collect a 3 months ccs 15:56:33 no doubt. you’ll notice I didn’t push any further. 15:57:12 yeah, but imo (putting words in plow's mouth),he was afraid tk collect on tome fkr fear of being cancelled 15:57:23 lol 15:57:25 to collect on time for* 15:58:16 But yeah, luigi and plowsof has different roles, and diego isnt covering for plowsof, hes covering for luigi 15:58:44 I vote for mb 15:58:49 Ik you do 15:58:57 you prefer diego over mb? 15:59:00 I vote ofrnxmr 15:59:17 to be clear geonic, you were initially in support but now are not, yes? 16:00:32 I’m not against you helping. I haven’t seen how any of your COIs get resolved though. listing them doesn’t resolve them 16:00:51 they arent conflicts because hes not in charge 16:00:58 He's working for community 16:01:04 “ I and all of my employees do occasional work for other clients, many of them in the privacy or crypto sphere. Several of them privacy coins themselves.” 16:01:15 he’s working for a few communities 16:01:43 And what are the primary issues that could arise from this, according to you? 16:02:10 I don’t know, you listed it as a COI. what are they? 16:02:46 that youre going to merge proposals to lay yourself and out competitors 16:02:52 Pay* 16:03:04 I can't really think of any besides prioritizing the work there and not do my Monero hours. I listed them for total transparency, but I myself can't see how it would cause issues. 16:03:11 But I'm open to being wrong. 16:03:17 But, diego will (i asssume) do as plowsof tells him, and not whatever-he-wants 16:04:01 yes, because luigi does what plowsof tells him and that’s how these things work 16:04:14 Luigi doesnr so as plowsof asks 16:04:28 why would luigi’s replacement? 16:04:56 luigi didnt even tell plowsof when ccs got hacked 16:05:22 I want to be able to trust that the person who is in charge of the website has monero’s best interests in mind and doesn’t have 100 other competing priorities 16:05:51 diego will merge what plowsof sends him, and we wont have to wait 4 weeks 16:06:07 (site) 16:06:13 I still remember the “if we don’t get an extra $2000 we might have to stop XMR research work” 16:07:06 and hiring sarang out to firo for a year without letting us bid on it. at least you apologized for that 16:07:11 Getting merges done on site atm is a massive waste of resources. Plowsof literally has to make new prs and fix conflicts because it takes so long 16:07:36 We did bid on it - wasnt it you that wrote the post about triptych? 16:07:59 And made sarang fight for money when he should have been getting paid hinto money? 16:08:01 what was the post? that while we’re waiting for triptych he’s working on firo? 16:08:33 i think it was deleted, couldnt find it earlier. (found a thread but the OP was deleted) 16:09:19 You do know that seraphis and triptych were inspired by / influenced by firo's work? 16:09:35 not according to koe 16:09:36 As in, without firo neither would exist 16:09:59 neither exists anyway (: 16:10:11 lelantus spark does though. 16:10:53 again, aaron wasn't enthuzed about working with Monero further at the time 16:11:22 yes, he ran out of popcorn 16:12:12 "not according to koe" << well, ill say, according to koe, yes it was. Jamtis was not 16:12:28 diego: not what you said 3 yrs ago 16:12:32 https://imgur.com/a/vvtq4gt 16:12:45 “an offer came and I took it” 16:12:50 correct. I said yesterday that I withheld this information 16:13:00 correct 16:13:01 ”people wouldn’t approve it anyway”, etc 16:13:08 both of these things are true 16:14:19 there was a variety of reasons we went with Firo. All of the above are true. One that I didn't say (that really would have helped my position at the cost of putting Aaron in the line of fire) was that he wasn't thrilled with jumping right back on the Monero train. 16:14:36 We all knkw that though 16:14:47 not all of us, it seems 16:14:57 it was obvious :) 16:14:57 He literally left the rooms and only comes back for real work 16:15:14 That said, I am still sorry that I didn't give Monero a chance to bid and spoken with Aaron further about it 16:15:21 fk that 16:15:24 nioCat not obvious to all of us, it seems :P 16:15:28 Hes not an escort 16:15:45 We fumbpled the ball and paid scammers instead 16:16:23 If monero is in the business of not retaining devs. Thats a monero problem 16:16:28 We lost surae too 16:16:44 neither is a dev 16:16:54 excuse me? 16:17:03 and yes we all knew sarang was burned out 16:17:21 Being a researcher doesn't stop you from being a dev 16:17:35 Burned out? No. Discouraged? Yes 16:17:50 it doesn’t stop you from being an astronaut either 16:17:58 He had np working for a community that he didnt have to bend over backwards to earn his place 16:18:27 anyway, I get it Diego. when you have conflicts of interest sometimes you have to withhold information. 16:18:29 Does sarang have code prs or not, geonic 16:19:16 being an employer and employee in the same organization is bound to cause trouble 16:19:32 this is a reasonable point, though in this case the conflict of interest is the mental well-being of my employee and friend, and not one that arises from working on other prjoects 16:20:13 Diego isn't sarang's pimp 16:20:37 If everyone 'new sarang was burnt out' as much as they say they did, I don't know why there were so many accusations of poaching the guy (when he hadn't worked for Monero for 6 months at that point) and taking him to another project :P 16:20:42 sarang could have defected to zcash and never looked back 16:21:14 Monero's super entitled and never took care of the noethers 16:21:50 Used and abused, then put them through witch trials, and they couldn't even get a car loan 16:21:53 That was one of the final things I was trying to save during my tenure with core. Couldn't clinch it in time. 16:22:17 surely your continued work for other projects means that no such situations will arise in the future 16:22:22 Was trying to set up a research fund thing similar to the one that was recently funded so they wouldn't have to keep fundraising, which was a constant point of stress 16:22:29 but know what I do now, we still would have lost them ;) 16:22:55 +1 16:23:20 Just checked my outlined proposed work, and "dibs on my employees time" isn't on there 16:23:59 so you are correct, that no similar situations would arise in the future regarding people working for me 16:25:30 fwiw, in retrospect I agree that these COIs were too significant in regards to me being a Core liason and representative to the community. There was a prestige and respect for my word that came from that. Had some weight to throw around. 16:26:37 Here, I would not be a Core anything. 16:27:08 right, just taking on one of the duties of a current core member 16:27:29 As a community member 16:27:32 I would head a couple of workgroups, yes. But Koe was the de facto head of MRL for a period of time, and worked for MobileCoin? 16:27:57 And wrote monerocoin's paper and never updated monero's 16:28:04 Mobilecoins** 16:28:08 or maybe his tenure there had stopped by the time he had assumed that de facto role, not quite sure. 16:28:21 And I would argue MRL is a much more important workgroup than website ;) 16:29:02 He started work on seraphis after he left mobilecoin 16:29:11 Huh? 16:29:11 was the head of MRL a salaried position? 16:29:28 Koe was paid 16:29:44 not for leading MRL 16:29:53 And im pretty sure he started seraphis before mobilecoin 16:30:00 your knowledge of that timeline is better than mine, so I defer to you 16:30:33 And worked on seraphis while working for Mobilecoin. Hes not in this room, maybe koe000 is here on matrix? Ping him 16:30:38 no, he wrote 0 to monero. got hired by mobilecoin and wrote their whitepaper. then quit and focused on seraphis 16:31:23 diego: do you hold any monero now or are you still avoiding it so it doesn’t “cloud your judgment”, as you said? 16:31:29 I think your timing on public events doesnt line uo on when koe started working with firo on seraphis 16:31:34 I hold Monero 16:31:44 ok 16:31:44 got some after I was let go, in fact ;) 16:32:07