01:33:58 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> > I asked him to make this proposal to more or less be an assistant to me, as well as working towards decentralizing some project things. I find him reasonable, level-headed, technical enough, and resistant to "temperature elevation". Most importantly, I know him well. 
01:33:58 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/470#note_25393
01:37:56 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Went from manager to pa
01:39:49 * m-relay <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> wakes midipoet and geonic up, silently walks away
07:05:20 <geonic> all I read was monerobull's will probably be merged
09:23:50 <m-relay> <j​effro256:monero.social> I posted a new milestone update  here: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/467#note_25412
09:27:11 <plowsof> nice jeffro256, *prints ticket no.7* please take a seat
09:27:26 <m-relay> <j​effro256:monero.social> lol
10:02:44 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> I thought mb wanted to pull the ccs
10:23:07 <midipoet> rottenwheel: to be honest, i have sort of checked out of most CCS issues. I think we should just merge everything that is relatively sane and not overpriced. 
10:25:42 <midipoet> If Luigi wants Diego's help, and that is the price of it, then so be it. It's not like Luigi isn't gonna donate to it. 
11:15:57 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Luigi needs to be removed from ccs wallet. Short memories here
11:23:14 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> What needs to happen to do this?
11:23:43 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Scott, poet, and who else need to agree?
11:24:00 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Agree to what
11:24:24 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Community needs to push for multi sig
11:24:30 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> To move to a new wallet
11:25:00 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Community has been pushing for a change of keys but it still hasn’t happened.
11:25:21 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Therefore it seems that a majority of the key holders to agree is the requirement.
11:25:43 <plowsof> there was a vote https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/935 
11:26:09 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> 1 yr anniversary in 2 months
11:26:14 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> s/the\ key\ holders/core
11:26:15 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Lol
11:26:39 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Vote was multi sig by march
11:26:44 <plowsof> well, its "multisig wen" 
11:27:07 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Soon ™️
11:27:33 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Hence why we need “soon™️” label on the github
11:29:44 <plowsof> ok but look at this new shiny fcmp++ update https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/449#note_25409 , things are moving along there 
11:30:09 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Funny
11:30:36 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Can get fcmp working, but cant fix multi sig
11:30:43 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Lol
11:32:53 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Who are the current key holders?
11:35:15 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Singular
11:35:52 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Numero uno
11:36:45 <plowsof> instead of 2+ unknown 
11:37:10 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Plowsof and 3 alts
11:37:32 <plowsof> matrix dot org accounts rising from the ashes like a phoenix 
11:38:50 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Pretty sure if you lost that amount of money in your job, you would be fired and referred  to the police
11:39:30 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> It’s very illogical that basically no changes have been made. Most importantly, personnel
11:39:35 <ofrnxmr> I wouldng trust scott with a banhammer
11:39:39 <plowsof> and then you'd have enough plausible deniability to get off free (2+ unknown people who can withdraw)
11:39:54 <ofrnxmr> Nevermind a fkn wallet key. Guy's the biggest liar in monero
11:41:00 <plowsof> basically no changes -> 2+ unknown + hot -> 1+cold 
11:41:39 <ofrnxmr> And midipoet is a google drive user. You really trust such a tech illiterate person to handle multisig keys for ccs devs? Cmon now 
11:42:33 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Paid for workspaces now
11:44:34 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> The delay is that we don’t know who will hold the partial keys? 
11:44:34 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Or we don’t know who will create the wallet? 
11:44:36 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Or that person doesn’t know how to make the wallet?
11:45:49 <ofrnxmr> No
11:45:57 <ofrnxmr> The delay is that luigi wants an assistant
11:46:23 <ofrnxmr>  (he wants to hold the wallet and control payments himself)
11:47:41 <ofrnxmr> My ccs specifically detailed that i want my funds help by _not core_. Luigi commented the other day to say "no". 
11:48:48 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Well ccs is centralized on core. Core resolves all disputes!
11:49:07 <ofrnxmr> We all know how to make a multisig. _using_ a multisig is the convoluted part, and due to the # of people on ccs, you want to remove as much potential for human error as possible
11:50:13 <ofrnxmr> the delay is a user friendly, secure and reliable UX for multisig
11:50:38 <ofrnxmr> Luigi was supposed to step down from the wallet by end of march, aiui
11:51:20 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Well
11:51:27 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Never said which march
11:51:38 <ofrnxmr> touche
11:53:15 <nioCat> the vulnerability is gone
11:53:18 <ofrnxmr> The UX was envisioned as an improvement into Feather Wallet, to be done by tobtoht, but tob has had to take a break of sorts. There are a few other paths we can go, but im hoping to get tobtohts approval before continuing  
11:53:44 <ofrnxmr> Niocat, which vuln? We still dont know how luigi was hacked 
11:54:10 <nioCat> only probabilities 
11:54:29 <nioCat> but yes a better system should be in place
11:55:43 <ofrnxmr> The only missing pieces are. 1. User friendly multisig 2. Luigi commiting to a peaceful transfer of power 
11:56:23 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Vuln was patched with ubuntu update
11:56:28 <ofrnxmr> 2. Was stated before as him not wanting to be a multisig signer, and willing to step down by march. Neither of those seems true anymore
11:56:47 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> And os with no default encryption lol
11:57:59 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Can we elaborate on what the difficulty w/ using multi sig is?
11:58:08 <m-relay> <a​remor:matrix.org> Xmr ms is just split keys right?
11:58:51 <nioCat> it's operational, try it and find out  :)
11:59:03 <ofrnxmr> What niocat said
11:59:23 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Try before you buy
11:59:41 <ofrnxmr> Try using it by hand in a 3/4 multisig and let me know how you like it
12:00:10 <ofrnxmr> Its annoying at best. 
12:03:25 <ofrnxmr> Time consuming, requires out of band manual messaging, etc 
13:23:25 <midipoet> What was the reason for not using a rino wallet for the CCS?
13:31:54 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> not how rino works
13:56:30 <m-relay> <s​hadow06:matrix.org> Is there some kind of multi-sig support for monero?
14:02:03 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> yes but its manual setup
14:02:27 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> and requires cli wallet
14:05:50 <Inge> a.k.a "a bit of a pain"
16:14:27 <geonic> <nioCat> the vulnerability is gone <= you mean fluffy?
16:16:40 <m-relay> <d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Mymonero is in the room
16:20:32 <m-relay> <s​hadow06:matrix.org> I'm running the CLI wallet now... is there a guide I can review?
16:21:19 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah
16:22:05 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> hbs:
17:33:18 <midipoet> monerobull: i know rino is a permissions based system, but wouldn't that be a step better than what currently exists? 
17:34:18 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> It should be a proper multisig, rino isn't really for access control
19:08:15 <m-relay> <s​hadow06:matrix.org> Yeah, ideally I could "approve" send tx's with "signatures" from 3-5 wallets and create a list of 7-10 wallets that can sign tx's.
19:08:45 <m-relay> <s​hadow06:matrix.org> I'm thinking this might only be possible near-term with some sort of hardware wallet implementation... or forking the wallet-cli and rolling my own.
19:09:14 <m-relay> <s​hadow06:matrix.org> If anyone else is looking at this I'd love to see what work has been done.
19:20:03 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/EevsWxsJjlIRxNYSOagzEFrv
19:23:48 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> Point of order: I propose a formal change in the documented use of tx_key <txid> to "private transaction key" as was documented here https://web.archive.org/web/20230130141648mp_/https://monerodocs.org/interacting/monero-wallet-cli-reference/#tx-private-key
19:23:48 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> Reasons:
19:23:50 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> - It's important to indicate that the information reveals private information somehow.
19:23:52 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> - it's concise and distinct. One word extra that doesn't create difficulty in displaying on gui wallets or anywhere else.
19:23:54 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> - The risk of confusion is between "secret" and "private" but it's better to let someone take pause before sharing a "private key" than to leave users without a clue that it's any different than the "transaction id" in terms of privacy.
19:29:16 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> Point of order: I propose a formal change in the documented use of tx\_key \<txkey> to "private transaction key" as was documented here https://web.archive.org/web/20230130141648mp\_/https://monerodocs.org/interacting/monero-wallet-cli-reference/#tx-private-key
19:29:18 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> Reasons:
19:29:20 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> - It's important to indicate that the information reveals private information somehow.
19:29:22 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> - it's concise and distinct. One word extra that doesn't create difficulty in displaying on gui wallets or anywhere else.
19:29:24 <m-relay> <d​ancer:monero.social> - The risk of confusion is between "secret" and "private" but it's better to let someone take pause before sharing a "private key" than to leave users without a clue that it's any different than the "transaction id" in terms of privacy.
20:24:12 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> https://craigwright.net/
20:24:19 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/kernal.eu/pOFDCVNszARwNyyEOjeOjxxB
20:25:25 <m-relay> <s​trawberry:monero.social> poor mr kangaroo
20:30:58 <midipoet> i thought we were all satoshi nakamoto
20:37:58 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> default monero multisig implementation really struggles once you go above 4
20:38:42 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> someone said the largest they got to work was 7 and they had to transfer a ton of data and it was really slow
20:39:03 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> the monero serai library has way more efficient multisig
22:13:28 <m-relay> <d​iego:cypherstack.com> Goodness! His official site too!
22:51:27 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Ordered by the courts i think
22:52:49 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Neg thats plowsof