00:08:29 ok? you just completely disregarded the fact that cloudflare can be used to defend against ddos traffic whilst allowing tor with captchas 00:09:06 <321bob321:monero.social> i think cloudflare strips the tls 00:09:46 <321bob321:monero.social> its does something when you enable the onion routing on it 00:10:45 yes it works as a middleman like that regardless if one is using tor, clearnet or whatever 01:57:30 tldr: you don't have to block exit nodes to enable cloudflares ddos protections. Blocking exit nodes was a personal choice 02:05:59 monerobull you or whoever owns the domain wanna comment on this? 02:18:41 The short version: manually took server offline > brought server back online with cloudflare blocking exit nodes = no more ddos 02:19:14 not much to comment on 02:23:28 monero.town 02:25:53 (potential) cost ($) was a common theme in the reasoning behind taking server offline and for blocking exits 02:35:43 <321bob321:monero.social> Well cloudflare is free 02:35:46 <321bob321:monero.social> Sooooo 02:36:00 <321bob321:monero.social> Your the product 02:43:43 The server isnt free, so allowing exit nodes involves some legwork to mitigate the attack 02:44:30 ccs.getmonero.org and repo.getmonero.org both use cloudflares gates. www.getmonero.org uses cloudflare, but with the gates disabled 04:31:42 The Cloudflare captcha breaks Lemmy apps and rss 13:35:22 Meeting in 1hr25~mins https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1046 15:00:11 Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1046 15:00:48 Greetings . Stressnet hardfork is today, please dont forget to run or update your stressnet node :) 15:01:26 hey everyone 15:02:30 Hey 15:02:40 ayy 15:02:44 Cypherstack has released a report for the FCMP++ project @ 'Divisors report' comment at the bottom https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/449 15:02:51 hello 15:03:15 Morning 15:05:39 spackle's report on the first two months of stressnet: https://reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1eoana8/the_stressnet_so_far/ 15:05:56 nice 15:06:52 https://github.com/spackle-xmr/monero 15:08:07 Instructions to join the stressnet are in the readme. If you can run 2 nodes, the more the merrier 15:08:17 other news sources: [Monero Observer](https://www.monero.observer/) - [Revuo Monero](https://revuo-xmr.com/) - [Monero Moon](https://www.themoneromoon.com/) 15:10:29 vthor is almost ready to push a production ready version of the xmr seed signer (work in porgress ccs https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/465) 15:11:25 we can move on to the open ccs ideas unless there are other open topics/highlights people wish to mention 15:13:27 ah, monero-docs workgroup has made some nice progress towards an official docs site for getmonero :) #monero-docs 15:14:20 ok, lets move on to the ccs merge list 15:14:27 a. [New Monero Website](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450) 15:14:48 Should be live in the next 2 weeks or so, albeit needs updating of content 15:14:58 (docs) 15:15:33 (docs) https://github.com/monero-project/monero-docs (test branch currently) 15:16:29 sorry, one more highlight, rbrunner has moved NWLB meetings into #monero-dev :) https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1053 15:16:36 The website ccs is largely stalled pending a redesign by Diego Salazar: and vostoemisio: .... idk whats going on 15:16:37 another -site meeting tomorrow i guess 15:17:34 yes, the ccs is supposodly going to change or be acompanied by a re-design proposal by diego (who is currently busy at defcon) https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1049 15:17:44 but open to feedback if anyone wishes to share something now, otherwise we can move on 15:17:58 Hi I'm here. :) 15:18:17 My apologies for my delays on this. 15:18:22 hello diego 15:18:34 At defcon and other things the past couple of weeks have required my attention. 15:19:17 more details on the changes to the ccs will be confirmed tomorrow in the site meeting? 15:19:56 Likely not, diego busy and vost hasnt looked into it yet 15:20:14 ... 15:20:43 Weird politics 🤷‍♂️, i dont know whats wrong w current design 15:21:00 Would you to take a stab at the redesign janaka? 15:21:05 janaka needs a designer, the designer is presumably going to be diego 15:21:08 I don't HAVE to do it 15:21:21 Someone else can do it. 15:21:24 I am not a designer 15:21:25 But the proposed design is not good. 15:21:27 janaka not being a designer and we have one with highly relavant experience 15:21:28 I don't master Figma enough 15:21:49 I'm sorry for the frustration. 15:23:04 As I understand Diego want to keep the structure of the current website, so it would require a complete redesign 15:23:52 Again, these are the things I am proposing and others can disagree. 15:24:02 if the designer proposal is going to be separate then janakas work/proposal is not contingent on a design proposal being ironed out? 15:24:03 We can discuss that at tomorrow's meeting for the site. 15:24:19 No. I have an active CCS proposal. 15:24:36 My hours redesigning would presumably be covered. 15:24:51 page 166, section 5: multiple ccs' are fine. citation mjxmr 15:25:24 ok nice, i think we can move on and return after sites meeting tomorrow 15:26:22 b. [ofrnxmr feat. BasicSwapDEX - take over the world pt 2](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/457) 15:26:54 are we skipping this proposal ofrnxmr in favour of discussing your latest one? 15:27:07 later on 15:28:06 Made adjustments to the milestones (lowered amounts, split up, adjusted to 160/xmr rate) 15:28:37 thanks 15:28:50 Vote spread is 24:9 or so, up from 20:10 15:29:31 couple of files in the commit but we can ignore that for now 15:30:27 merged master into the branch, but u can see diffs on the compare latest version screen 15:30:34 also thanks janaka for sprinkling votes on the open ideas, much appreciated 15:30:40 vthor is almost ready to push a production ready version of the xmr seed signer (work in porgress ccs)... 15:30:47 :D 15:30:58 * vthor is jumping of a bridge (which doesn't even exists) 15:31:17 Haha you are welcome plowsof 15:32:37 thank you for the update vthor, great work. 15:33:37 :D 15:34:23 ofrnxmr setting a record for proposal interaction / updoots perhaps, we can move on unless ... also basicswapdex team still want to solve the multisig ux quickly for us, in a seperate proposal, perhaps related to this or the other or both ofrnxmr proposals? 15:35:34 Yeah, the bsx team is looking to do the multisig ux in feather for us 15:35:54 CryptoGuard: 15:36:01 i would like to skip entirely c. [Monero Poker Infrastructure Project](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/461) , stale / close sentiment , unless there are objections 15:37:00 d. [VOSTOEMISIO - FCMP Animated Explainer Video & Remake Introductory Video](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/472) 15:37:12 vosto has already had enough positive sentiment / previous contribs to have the combined proposal merged 15:37:43 I think it could be a fun project, but since its hard to find consensus, perhaps poker would have better success on kuno 15:38:51 e. [From Prototype to Marketplace: Maturing the XMR-BTC Atomic Swaps Ecosystem](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/477) 15:39:34 einliterflasche and I are here in case you have any questions 15:39:46 both binarybaron and einliter attended last weeks meeting also which didnt go ahead 15:40:31 checks notes to confirm if sethforprivacy returned to update this one 15:41:26 yes, so 14 updoots, no down doots, clearly a merge? 15:42:33 i think we can move on unless any questions (there was not any last saturday) 15:43:21 great to hear, looking forward to working on the project :) 15:43:32 f. [Part-time + Flexible Work on getmonero.org (1 Month)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/481) 15:44:02 <0xfffc:monero.social> Congrats binarybaron 15:44:21 I'm neither for nor against, but think bsx and unstoppable both have great support from community. Bsx ccs has a lot of downvoted because some ppl dont like ofrnxmr 15:44:57 from hardenedsteel* the part time + flexible 15:45:05 f. Part time work = hardenedsteel. 15:45:07 hardenedsteel is one of monero-sites biggest (and one of the only) contributors 15:45:11 easy +1 15:45:37 im not sure what the + flexible is for (we awarded that to long time serving members to reduce any mental suffering from being *gasp* forced to work in return for pay , how dare he come out the gate with that on his first porposal 15:46:47 Language barrier 15:47:12 paid holidays next?? :D 15:47:13 He means willing to do more than ccs 15:47:49 paid holidays were born and died with erciccione 15:47:50 jokes aside, hardenedsteel has alot of support already. and at 5 xmr, very cheap for continued help 15:47:56 hardenedsteel helped plowsof and me on a previous version of bchmempool.cash . Converting mempool.cash from BTC to BCH 15:48:04 this is correct 15:48:28 and was jaded by the previous maintainer for not having any PR's accepted, the situation has improved now 15:49:58 i'd like to see (even thouhg the website group leader hasn't lol) HS touch base with janaka about .. well.. astro (basically what i need to do tbh so i know what im going to be contributing to in the near future.... use astro for something, like how syntheticbird created cuprate.org using it.. im sure he has a better idea of what 'it' is now ) 15:50:06 <0xfffc:monero.social> I haven’t read the ccs. I am not against it, and don’t know much to be in favour of it. But never had any negative interactions with hardenedsteel. Looks like someone who wants to work. 15:50:49 site workgroup can bring this up tomorrow also hopefully 15:51:15 otherwise , im sure he'll be able to make the same contirbutions even with a new site/back end 15:51:17 Why? 15:52:17 the workgroup is like 4 ppl and were all here 15:52:21 current site is gone, we need help for new site , people ideally who know what astro is 15:52:40 The -site matrix room has a bunch of ppl who dont contribute to the repo AT ALL 15:52:43 or show evidence they can learn well, things 15:52:54 Dont even look at the prs or issues 15:53:00 lol 15:53:53 i am supportive/thankful for HS's willing to help/contribute to site, shall we move on 15:54:04 i dont think their comments on hardened's ccs are helpful at all. Peak larping 15:54:26 Yea 😅 15:54:35 g. [ofrnxmr support, docs, site, meta++ (totw pt3)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/482) 15:55:30 ofrnxmrs new proposal 15:55:38 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/482#note_25683 15:55:39 scott left some drool in the comments 15:55:59 ofrnxmr: If there are disagreements about the contents of docs, how will they be resolved? 15:56:11 Not sure if he did it to get a rise out of me, or if he's really that messed up in the head 15:56:41 Via issues and prs 15:57:30 That doesn't answer my question. The disagreements can appear in PRs and issues. What is the decisionmaking process? 15:57:39 There is Monero Docs and #monero-docs 15:58:28 The same as -site (?) 15:58:29 not sire what sort of disagreements youre referring to 15:58:33 as ive provided some help for the new -docs effort rucknium i think i can speak to that Q also, it seems, in my eyes, a major issue with getmonero.dev is the new license or copyright , MAGIC + others (everywhere) 15:58:50 There is sometimes disagreement about the contents of getmonero.org, especially about non-cotre eneitities. AFAIK there isn't a good way to resolve those disagreements, so some -site progress is slow. Can we do better with -docs? 15:58:54 If were documenting a function, it only has one definition 15:59:28 site is slow because of maintainer 16:00:18 Its a lot faster now, even though we dont have a maintainer. 16:00:19 there is a contributing guide for site that is rarely followed 16:00:43 I believe yes we can do better in docs. Core is not in the way 16:00:53 current/proposed docs sites are MIT - the new docs (updated mkdocs) has an attribution plugin, where, authors are listed at the bottom of each entry, so edits on getmonero.org can be lifted and attributed appropriately if needed 16:00:57 <0xfffc:monero.social> + 16:01:11 <0xfffc:monero.social> Merge. 16:01:57 I have thumbed-up this proposal in the CCS repo. 16:03:45 Plowsof and dan (is not the man) have already done some good work prepping the site. We should have cookies (netlify replacement fkr pr previews) running soon, as well as having the theming and i18n stuff in 16:04:03 apologies hinto for going over 16:04:05 s/cookies/coolify 16:05:16 the same work that warranted a copyright change to MAGIC + others has been completed, basically 16:05:46 + extra due to internationalisation , but i guess that will come later 16:06:40 i think we can move on for now as we're over 16:06:49 h. [selsta part-time monero development (3 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/483) 16:06:58 merge 16:07:04 <0xfffc:monero.social> Merge. 16:07:10 +1 16:07:13 +1 16:07:16 merge 16:09:38 moving on 16:09:39 i. [hinto-janai full-time work on Cuprate (3 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/484) 16:10:20 i hate to be that guy.. (who am i kidding, i dont hate it). But idk about these rates 16:10:57 I know its the same as his last ccs, but the rates are incredibly inflated imo 16:11:43 We've seen 140-250k/yr rates from devs. Are we supposed to pay cryptographers 500k? 16:13:05 im not sure what overlap here , but yamabiiko who recently closed their ccs due to personal / availability reasons was at 50/hr 40hrs a week for some specific cuprate tasks https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/479 16:14:59 https://github.com/Cuprate/cuprate/commits?author=hinto-janai&since=2024-05-14&until=2024-06-05 16:16:30 Downgrade gcc 16:16:31 readme 16:16:33 Update license 16:16:35 Add skeleton directories 16:16:37 Add issue templates 16:16:37 hintos most recent ccs update https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/456 (3 llibraries have been added , boog900) 16:16:39 Create cargo.toml 16:16:41 Add skeletons 16:16:43 Add crates 16:16:45 etc 16:16:47 Theres no way this is 12k of work (??) 16:17:23 for milestones 2+3, so hintos current WIP ccs is finished 16:18:01 they alos wish to take a break before beginning the next one , not sure how long 16:19:06 My last msg was abt mileston 1 16:19:19 "Binary/other RPC interface + other work" is MS3 16:19:25 the update for m2 and m3 was sent last night. Too early to comment on 16:19:41 not sure if binary was mentioned here, hopefully hinto can confirm 16:19:48 or boog900 16:20:47 Heya binarybaron & einliterflasche, I like the direction of your proposal! Wanted to ask if you've tried using Farcaster, and if you've looked into integrating it into the UnstoppableSwapGUI in addition to Comit? I know the only significant activity Farcaster's seen in 2024 is adding Namecoin support, but it's fully functional and solves for instance the bidirectional swapping iss 16:20:49 ue that's been raised here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1dz739s/comment/lcfi2zs/ 16:21:14 lederstrumpf the community has decided that farcaster is a dead dodo / abandonned and te only protocol worth investing in is COMIT 16:21:22 is this the correct assumption? 16:21:47 lederstrumpf: wasnt a wuestion for me, but we'll probably add in basicswap 16:22:13 Of nvm, i was thinking noots eth swaps. 16:22:31 Basicswap has bidirectional swaps 16:22:56 @plowsof: I wanted to leave some extended comments on that on the MR, but seems my account has been deactivated. Who would I get in touch with to re-enable access? 16:23:27 i can fix that for you, what is the username? 16:23:38 (i hope i can) 16:23:46 thanks! 16:23:47 And basicswap has bidirectional for btc and btc forks (like ltc) 16:23:52 > i can fix that for you, what is the username? 16:23:53 Lederstrumpf 16:24:04 Post your username here after the meeting 16:24:12 thanks will check 16:25:14 i think we can put an open end to the meeting here, thank you all for providing feedback 16:25:39 ofrnxmr: I think it's inappropriate to start this discussion again. I'd still be willing to write out a response detailing work, although, the CCS/updates already do this if read in full. 16:26:25 I think the subject of rates is valid 16:26:31 plowsof: yes, all milestones are done, including binary 16:27:22 I'll probably come back when PRs pile up, so maybe a few days from now 16:29:02 ofrnxmr: if you believe so, then please write a comment detailing things on the proposal 16:29:08 Its a free market, to an extent, but if you're charging 145k, and berman 250k, what Is acceptable for cryptographers? 16:29:09 I think market rates are important, but i also think we need to be careful about setting precedent 16:30:21 Its not _your_ proposal that's an issue, its in general 16:35:28 people asking for funds far above what is adequate and disregarding the spirit of monero being community driven. Whales exist, but imo the source of funding isnt unlimited. What will devs do if/when whales stop contributing due to it being unsustainable? Lower their rates? Work for free? Quit? 16:35:29 These rates being charged need to be humbled a bit. I dont know where in the world one would need over 10k/mth to live comfortably in 2024. Wen lambo 16:48:00 comfortably? I think that is absolute POV... And IMO this is a very socialist POV... And even if he would need a lambo to feel comfortably... That is his life and he decides for what he is willing to but his lifetime (the most scare in this world) into... 16:50:15 Like i said, its a free market (to an extent) 16:50:28 But ccs is supposed to support monero first and foremost 16:50:30 just my two picos.... 16:50:59 If it was a free for all, then devs should open at 500k and see how long that lasts b4 we stop getting funding 16:51:35 ccs is a tool to support monero development, not a tool to buy lambos bcuz u want to overbill 16:51:54 This is something what I don't understand... 16:52:22 once upon a time there was a monero tesla ccs 16:52:41 when the CCS is aprooved it still needs to get funded, and nobody would drop money on what the person thinks it's not worth it? 16:52:46 adds to notes 'suggest lambo experience / test drive at monerokon ' 16:53:11 a lot of donations are made without reading the proposals or paying attention to the work compelted 16:53:30 We had a dev for 2 years who never fixed a single bug 16:53:35 Yes, can confirm indeed. We've looked at it and can take it on 👍 16:54:02 I calculated yesterday night ruffly estimating, that I'm working at the moment for ~$10, the lowest in my life I think. 16:54:16 underpricing is a major issue as well 16:54:46 But we red tape ppl into underpricing themself, and cause ccs proposals to fail as a result 16:54:51 "We had a dev for 2 years who never fixed a single bug" butt where is this related to the compensation? 16:55:08 he was charging for the work he wasnt doing 16:56:17 == being funded doesnt mean you earned your pay 16:56:36 this is something, but you say it's a free - market, but only to a price I can agree, and this is for me very socialist and wrong, I know I can't life comfortaby with EUR10k/month I lifed of of that and I had days where I had ony coins.... 16:56:54 "== being funded doesnt mean you earned your pay" ack 16:59:46 did u also have a gambling problem 😅 17:00:11 And know things are worse, when I see inflation, I have a child with special need, the service dog, you can normally calculate daily alone $50, traveling with a dog an a cat add per night a $50 if you stay at a hotel 17:02:06 I never gambled once in my life. I make maybe unwise decisions, but at the end how I live confortable is up to me, or? Not? This is like saying nobody needs a car. Nobody needs a bicyle. Nobody needs shoes. Need != comfortable. 17:04:02 For some people it is comfortable to live in a city, for other (like for me) it is a nightmare... There are so many variables in life.... I lived of EUR50/month for some time (when I was alone), today I need almost that for purely survival of the familly a day... 17:04:34 Thats only 1500/mth 17:05:10 Don't get me wrong, it's not about attacking you or drama, it's just my view and what makes this world simply terrible, and on thing is this socialist mindset the race to the bottom.... 17:05:18 Living comfortably could = drug addiction 17:05:38 i'm far from socialist 17:05:48 surveilal != comfortable. At all.... 17:05:50 But i dont like ppl pissing in the pool 17:06:05 :D 17:07:09 Well, not nice pissing in the pool, and less pissing on someones leg... 17:08:21 even worse, pissing in the lemonade 17:08:46 I see here only how here often is a push for <$50/h, and I charged normally $100/h and think this is stil very low, when I started 20 years ago IBM hat a rate >$200/h... 17:09:34 What happened to ibm job 17:10:50 My mother got mad with me because I charged my EUR60 in the begining, while she got effectivly EUR5/h, and for me that is the same. Nobody sees that you charge one hour, work 2-3, and read 10 hours for it, everybody sees always only it is too much, because it is much more... 17:11:26 I never worked for IBM, it was only what IBM charged while I was charging EUR60/h.... 17:12:30 ibm is a corporation with a lot if waste. Of course they charge 4x what they pay their employees 17:13:36 Anyway, my point is that, if monero devs started tk charge 200/hr, it wouldnt take long for the well to dry up 17:13:37 But anyway, this is not the point the point is that somebody decides what is a comfortable life for somebody else, that is what is in my view communist... (and not free market) and there is no free market "to an extent". Or there is a free market or not, if not it's socialism like all over the world what is causing gov with the big dildo waiting for everybody... 17:14:26 I'm not deciding what is comfortable. i am talking about cost of living. If someone wants lambo money, they should replace sarang 17:14:53 what means sarang? 17:15:21 sarand noether, one of our finest mathematician (who left) 17:15:44 sarang* 17:17:01 Why did he leave? 17:17:17 Diego Salazar: 17:17:54 Long story, but monero didn't treat him well 17:18:22 hm... that would me make think.... 17:20:39 we pay scammers all the time, while making it difficult for good workers to even get paid. triptych wa closed unpaid iirc 17:21:25 But anyway, how I said, was not meant to be an attack, I only a bit allergic of all socialist, and it irritates me more when I see it in connection to monero, because I assume that people surrounding monero are intrested in freedom - at least that I hope... 17:22:03 i am interested in freedom as it relates to monero, not interested in ppl coming to monero to drain the well and leave 17:22:24 Hi 17:22:43 can you explain to vthor a short version of why sarang left 17:23:45 The noether's were our researchers several years ago. They're some of the best in the biz. They were funded via quarterly CCS requests. 17:24:01 but ofrnxmr, then is not the price the issue but the scammers or to enable the scammers. But that is what I observe when I'm reading here, best nobody get paid anything and works forever... And when you make statements like that I think also, maybe not the best place to be, seems pretty unwelcomming... 17:24:22 They left for a variety of reasons. Firstly, raising money for your salary quarterly is very stressful. It's much less stable than a regular job. And Monero is volatile. 17:24:47 The tax stuff becomes more than a slight annoyance when it's also your livelihood. 17:25:00 Diego. Yes, I can see that. 17:25:32 Well taxes are not only a slight annoynce, only exit is to live nowhere. 17:25:37 Getting things like loans or apartments become very difficult as well, because those people ask about employers and potentially want to talk about employers before giving out their services. 17:25:51 One becomes a scammer by being too greedy. Like that dev i spoke about who didnt produce work buy charged $ for attending meetings that he didnt speak in 17:25:54