00:14:06 did they attempt to change rates before or after this comment? https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/477#note_25684 00:14:14 seems opportunistic 00:15:47 yep it was after 00:16:34 actually an hour and 20 minutes after luigi merged 13:37:15 meeting today in 13:37:43 1hr23 mins 13:38:03 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1055 13:38:32 i just added a reply to rottenwheels comment here https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/457#note_25800 13:47:08 binarybaron+einlitre are currently having internal discussions with lederstrumpf (of farcaster) who has proposed a sane path forward for integrating farcaster swaps into the unstoppableswaps gui. so in the end it would support both COMIT and Farcaster. the unstoppable swaps proposal could possibly be edited to include these extra tasks, presumable with an adjustment in rates/amounts to account) 13:52:02 pending binarybarons feedback on this^ i would like to suggest a separate scoped out ccs proposal with concrete deliverables for adding farcaster into the unstoppableswap gui 13:53:24 butbutbut "month 1, month 2, month 3" are so much better.. 13:53:52 about to be 70hr/week/person 🙃 13:55:17 lederstrumpf has provided them a route to doing this where most of the development work has already been done, i can't speak to that nor say how binarybaron feels about it 13:55:47 I think farcaster is out of scope, as is the last minute rate change. Proposal was merged as-is. We'd be just as wrong to "unmerge" it, as they were to modify it post-merge 13:58:41 the "contract" was officially accepted as-proposed when ouji hit "merge". Fortunately/unfortunately, lederstrumpf was late 2 the party 14:01:46 i know of a few other, unrealistic, unachievable, or straight up scam ccs that would be or would have been more logical to "take back", but that is not an option. 14:02:23 We even paid out some of these, after they proved they wouldn't deliver 14:07:18 If unstoppable is adding farcaster, they should open a new, parallel ccs 14:08:36 bUt ShoUlD wAiT tO seE hOw ThE fIrSt OnE gOeS bEforE wE cAn mErGe tHe 2nD 14:10:36 https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20240817#c412195 pending binarybarons feedback on discussions 14:10:40 If not for the weak ass "lets payout incomplete / scam ccs", merging multiple wouldn't be an issue. No completion = thanks for donating to jet fund. There is 0 risk im raising $ unless you plan on being bullied / peer pressured into paying it out 14:14:03 > a separate scoped out ccs proposal with concrete deliverables for adding farcaster into the unstoppableswap gui 14:14:05 this has no bearing on already-merged 477. Its a separate ccs 14:16:41 Unmerging is dirty dictator stuff. Changing rates post-merge is laughable as well. If farcaster integration ir rate changes are a thing, they should have been brought up before the meetings and before the merge. Changes now must come in the form of a new proposal 14:16:53 is it separate or would it significantly better to be done in parallel? I have no way of knowing but this seems to be a question to be answered 14:17:03 yes, separate ccs, the rates change is the issue 14:17:08 i too await binarybarons thoughts 14:17:47 what does this mean "There is 0 risk im raising $ unless you plan on being bullied / peer pressured into paying it out" 14:17:49 separate ccs, parallel work 14:18:37 Raising $ != paying money 14:18:49 We tend to pay out ppl who dont finish their work (like mj) 14:19:14 If we stopped doing that, there is 0 risk in merging. No work = no pay 14:19:47 so separate but parallel, seems like semantics 14:20:23 but as plowsof says we need to wait for more info 14:20:40 the first ccs was merged. Unmerging is as unprofessional as changing ratea 14:21:07 what is that status of the rate changes 14:21:22 The first ccs was accepted with no opposition until _after_ it was merged 14:21:57 Status of rate change, if youre asking my view = lmao. No. 14:22:12 would the community like farcaster in unstoppableswap gui (basically) combined with, are the gui devs comfortable with the approach. lederstrumpf is also not opposing the ccs, merely suggesting (and correcting their, at times, incorrect knowledge) of farcaster 14:22:21 it was changed but not changed back? 14:22:45 geonics comment today https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20240817#c412137 14:23:38 MR to adjust the rates (+57 extra) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/485 14:24:03 https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20240816#c412127 plowsof's comments make the mose sense 14:25:11 "actually an hour and 20 minutes after luigi merged" <> how is this possible? 14:25:37 proposal merged with errors in the front matter so it did not display on the funding page 14:25:47 They opened 485 AFTER luigi merged 14:27:20 the errors where caused by my 'create a proposal script' BTW 14:27:34 shame on me, corrected now + added a check in the pre parser 14:28:54 the original guideline of 3 month max was due in part to volatility. Back when there was significantly more volatility. 14:29:03 we are stable coin now lol 14:29:12 1. Leave 477 as is. No rate change. No scope change. Farcaster stuff is a new ccs / new milestone, and might not be something BB is even interested in 14:29:13 2. Set bad precedent and allow and/or require people to change their proposals after merge 14:29:29 Sorry, A and B instead 1 and 2 14:29:44 do we even have a precedent anymore 14:36:05 No, we have rules for some ppl that dont apply to others 14:38:17 Failed ccs >> invited to open new ccs (molly > sdk). 14:38:19 In progress ccs (diego) > invited to open new ccs for website design 14:38:21 in progress ccs (ofrn) > told to pause monero work to see how bsx goes 14:38:23 "no upfront" but fund movies wirh 50:50 votes and 50% upfront 14:40:02 Allowing solopt to change their milestones and allowing the project lead to be faid in full before completion 14:40:51 molly / valdrac still making progress, this merge completed one of his milestones https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/9344 14:41:02 Project lead claimed he'd complete the project, yet changed milestones so that he could be paid to abandoned it 14:44:03 i think diegos website design might fall into his current ccs (can't pull the comment up) -site meeting tomorrow though 14:45:17 Diegos was just an example, he doesnt have a second ccs open 14:45:20 "in progress ccs (ofrn) > told to pause monero work to see how bsx goes" on the meeting agenda in.. 15 mins ~ https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1055#issue-2463763769 14:48:08 r4v3r23: any anonero updates? 14:49:29 ^^ perfect example of ridiculousness. Telling me to pause work, and to continue campaigning instead 14:51:44 meanwhile mb and diego have copy pasta ccs and site still has no maintainer 14:53:44 i'm basicallt expected to stop all contributions, whether that be stressnet, site or docs, and to go on twitter amd try to rally another 30 upvotes so i can wait 3 more months for luigi to get outta my way so we can get work done 🙃, while dealing with yasabi and his socks bot spamming ccs and community. Fun 14:54:32 hello einliterflasche2 14:54:35 Meeting in 5 yes? 14:54:43 yes 14:55:22 having more than 1 CCS at the same time would not be precedent setting. AIUI this happens with proven CCS contributors. ofrn's 2nd CCS doesn't seem to be a risk at all. The first one I could not wrap my head around but it is now a done deal 14:57:03 Meeting in 5 yes? <> we started early because 1 hr is too short for a meeting ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 14:57:39 early meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1055 14:57:55 hello all, greetings 14:58:24 Hello. 14:58:51 just reminder that a new monero version was tagged, and reproducible build hashes already being submitted, so a release will follow shortly 14:59:25 featherwallet has already bumped to the latest monero versions in the new release https://featherwallet.org/changelog/ 14:59:32 I struggle to see how either sets bad precedent: the exceptional scenario here is that the MR was merged but did not actually open up for funding on website due to a bug. So this doesn't set a precedent for normal CCS operation. If the funding had already been opened and funds contributed, I'd be more inclined to agree with you since then it would be a change of the terms against 14:59:33 what donors had signed up for. 15:01:21 TownForge testnet to restart on 1st September with Proof Of Settlement https://townforge.net/proof-of-settlement 15:01:39 The last part of your sentence is the point 15:01:57 K lets follow agenda 15:02:04 but no one could donate to it yet? 15:02:15 Yo yo. Meeting time. 15:02:26 Plowsof lez go 15:02:28 merged into limbo with no donation address 15:02:43 agenda 15:02:55 has anything else amazing happened in the ecosystem amazing happened in the last 7 days other than us all being here 15:03:37 Yes Cypher Stack is about to release a summary of current knowledge of sorts on Monero. Today or Monday. 15:04:11 Started design process for the website. 15:04:23 Been pushing forward on Astro learning. 15:04:51 haveno update is live 15:04:56 Design.getmonero.org 15:05:08 they have pow nodes now 15:05:38 Oh yeah and we got penpot up for you guys to play with. Thanks. 15:05:50 The recent MRL meeting shared a nice research paper, with some interesting acknowledgements, Rucknium chaired the meeting 15:06:26 monerobull : using the equiX thing from tevador? its enabled by default for everyone now or something? 15:06:50 yeah with tor pow 15:07:11 its enabled but you only do pow while there is an attack 15:08:02 For all nodes or just seed nodes? 15:08:05 nice, so this should hopefully reduce the effects of any future DDOS attacks on any haveno network instances #haveno:monero.social #haveno-lounge:monero.social #haveno-dev:haveno.network 15:09:35 well you can just delete tor files should your personal onion actually get attacked 15:09:37 and people are looking for the mysu source code (?) 15:10:32 Yes, v0.18.3.4 point release and we can't have someone else upgrade it, because no code. Pooookkst. 15:11:26 Summary of current knowledge of sorts on Monero? 🤔 What exactly is that? 15:12:05 Nice chunky 24 page paper with tons of references. 15:12:35 On what exactly? What is it? 15:12:49 Summary of current knowledge of sorts on Monero is too vague. 15:12:59 A new moneropedia? Lol. 15:13:32 probably something for researchers / devs. they can digest it in the -dev meeting that identifies as the -nwlb meeting sometimes 15:14:06 Oh that 15:14:39 In fact: https://github.com/cypherstack/pup-monero-analysis/releases/tag/final 15:14:41 The meeting are moving back to nwlb, but nwlb will be readdressed as monero-somethinf 15:14:51 Literally hot off the press. 15:14:53 full-ish picture of this week i think? please to check the news sources for a more comprehensive picture News: [Monero Observer](https://www.monero.observer/) - [Revuo Monero](https://revuo-xmr.com/)- [Monero Moon](https://www.themoneromoon.com/) 15:15:45 names such as monero-next monero-dev-lab and monero-tech have been proposed. I don't like monero-tech, because of monerotech.info 15:16:20 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1058 15:16:27 more regular meetings for devs in the immediate short team does seem beneficial 15:16:43 s/team/term 15:17:18 thanks or the meta issue link 15:18:13 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1054 and thr actual discussion here 15:19:04 ok lets jump into the ccs merges list unless theres an immediate opinion being typed out 15:19:14 The main thing we need now for nwlb, is a name, and for plowsof to add matrix.org address after we choose one 15:19:36 monero-dev can wait for now, with input from selsta etc 15:20:07 Merge list. Weeee! 15:20:19 a. [From Prototype to Marketplace: Maturing the XMR-BTC Atomic Swaps Ecosystem 15:20:21 ](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/477) 15:21:06 so this is the one which was merged, with errors in the front matter preventing it from displaying on the funding page. a comment from ledertrumpf containing some corrections reg comments about farcaster was made, and seemed important enough to hold off on a response. now.. 15:21:28 a.1 [Rate change after merge*](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/485) 15:22:42 The rate change was discussed with Luigi privately (its common for luigi to ping the authors of a proposal to update the rates before merging which he didnt do with us). If it's not acceptable to update them know we'd be fine with sticking with the old exchange rate. 15:22:53 now* 15:25:08 I do know people are often asked to update rates before merge. 15:25:11 That seems settled. 15:25:13 what are your thoughts on a new ccs for farcaster comments? 15:25:44 1. merge the above rate change no questions asked and put to funding with +57 (no mention of farcaster) 15:25:45 2. put the original proposal as is to the funding page 15:25:47 3. let lederstrumpf cook some more with his path to farcaster integration inside unstoppableswap and include it in the proposal / hear from binary baron about his thoughts 15:25:49 4. again hear BB's thoughts - but on a seperate farcaster integration proposal (if this is even possible with the proposed path to integration which supposedly removes alot of the development effort required) 15:25:51 other options? edits to those ones? 15:25:53 Something youd be interested in, or not interested? 15:26:36 2 and 4 15:27:23 wrt rate: my experience with other crypto ecosystems is also that if the exchange rate moves materially until funding actually opens, it is adjusted prior to actually funding. And to restate my prior comment to ofrnxmr: since no one could actually donate to it, I personally don't think it's an issue since no-one contributed on the terms of the current outdated rate. 15:28:20 well, i was unlucky to be merged in the middle of the night 15:28:29 And funded soon after 15:28:43 I want to adjust my rates /s 15:28:46 Would look good on binarybaron if he replied to leder's comment and we potentially benefitted from that back and forth. If not for them to work together, for binarybaron's project to become yet stronger and more likely to occur. 15:28:48 there is some context behind selecting number 1 : some discussion here geonics comment today https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20240817#c412137 and https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20240816#c412121 15:29:00 You have days between meeting and merge 15:29:25 lederstrumpf Can you share what happened with hashed, zkao and the others from farcaster team? They disappeared after completing that CCS proposal of yours. 15:30:00 Vaguely remember playing with zkao in -swaps because I was going to test farcaster when ready. :-( I thought we had something special going on! 15:30:18 The consensus was publicly announced and accepted. As plowsof said, its a longer (6 month) ccs that should have absorbed volatility 15:30:40 We put a lot of thought into our proposal and we think it's the best path to work on COMIT first and later expand to other protocols such as farcaster. we support 1. 15:31:03 I see binarybaron has provided an update on the CCS in the meantime, but that was before I spelled out my proposal for a risk minimized route of going farcaster first to them in DM 15:31:04 binarybaron is OK with the old rates, but, lederstrumpfs comment is correct, it was not put to funding, with a donation address 15:32:05 lederstrumpfs comment: as you see its not something to type in a few mins, he gave a headsup he was writing it* 15:32:28 It didint have a donation t addr, but it was accepted and commited to the repo. The page went live but had a formatting error 15:32:57 If this happened eith my proposal, i could have added 8% increase to it 15:34:08 I think there's much ado about nothing here. 15:34:29 They asked Luigi if they could update rates, and Luigi said yes. 15:34:33 I don't know what specifically zkao and h4sh3d are working on these days. TheCharlatan's doing bitcoin core dev - you can follow his work online. 15:35:20 thats not what luigi told me, but ok 15:35:41 Luigi told you they didn't ask? Or he told you you couldn't adjust rates? 15:35:59 Switching to Farcaster would be a drastic and risky change. We are confident that we can execute our goals by sticking with COMIT and later thinking about integrating Farcaster. We have put a lot of thought into this. 15:36:06 and it's pretty clear what kayabanerve's working on these days :P 15:36:34 The former 15:37:06 It's clear to me that farcaster needs to be a separate CCS. 15:37:14 is the proposal a one-off thing as einlitre stated on the proposal https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20240816#c412128 15:37:30 Gotcha. So let's table until we hear from him. I pinged him privately. 15:37:33 We definitely did ask Luigi. He told us it was okay to change them before the formatting issue got fixed. 15:37:34 or shuld we seek another team to look at integrating? 15:37:41 +1 diego 15:37:44 please reconsider with the proposal I sent you this afternoon: again, by going for that first, you save duplicating components existing in Farcaster but not yet in COMIT. 15:38:08 Sorry binarybaron, give us just a bit more patience. If Luigi confirms I have no issue with 1. 15:38:57 Farcaster needs to make it's own proposal here. 15:39:13 My thoughts at least. Maybe next? 15:39:19 seems so 15:39:32 b. [New Monero Website](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/450) 15:39:54 Design.getmonero.org 15:39:57 are we deferring this to site meeting tomorrow or is this a merge 15:40:11 #monero-site has a meeting tomorrow 15:40:46 This can't be merged. Design isn't done. Next. 15:40:48 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1049 15:40:50 thanks ok 15:41:02 Defer. Cant merge cuz we have no idea what the new scope is 15:41:04 Janaka doesn't even want it merged until design is done so they can come up with a good quote for making it. 15:41:28 It was merely reopened to show that it can be merged in the future and wouldn't get lost in the weeds. 15:41:39 yes, makes sense 15:41:48 monero-site has taken over the decisions on this one, i think they need to come to consensus first 15:41:58 moving onward 15:42:02 c. [ofrnxmr support, docs, site, meta++ (totw pt3)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/482) 15:42:35 If [events] have Core so spoked they're editing terms post merge for part 2, shouldn't do part 3 IMO 15:43:32 Huh 15:43:34 Which specifically? 15:43:38 Anyway, ignoring this guy 15:43:56 Spooked? 15:44:22 👻 15:44:25 Escrow with things like this: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/457#note_25742 15:44:35 my latest comment to clarify things here https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/457#note_25800 15:44:41 <0xfffc:monero.social> Merge. 15:45:40 I've been absent for almost 3 weeks and everytime I come back ofrnxmr CCS(s) is(are) more a brainfuck than ever. 15:45:49 This seems to be a misunderstanding of what we presented in the proposal. 15:46:01 If I may elaborate as I see it. 15:46:34 not saying it shouldn't be merged but having to go over 80+ comments to understand is awful 15:46:38 <0xfffc:monero.social> Just look at the amount of time he is spending on helping others in monero / -community / -stressnet. 15:46:44 ofrnxmr requested as part of the proposal that plowsof escrow ALL of the funds of the proposal pretty much at once. This is because he's been very critical of CCS wallet being drained and doesn't trust luigi to not lose the money. 15:46:48 this request was denied 15:47:10 That part of the m0 milestone go to plowsof to disperse isn't the same ask. 15:47:32 Denied >> plowsof didnt want to 15:47:35 The m0 is being paid out anyways, so it doesn't matter much who 'escrows' that funds. 15:47:46 No. luigi denied also very plainly. 15:48:00 I do continue to maintain that if Core has knowledge of ofrnxmr engaging in malicious actions against the community and is paying them off, it would be quite bad for the project 15:48:08 that i can't hold 2k monero, not surprising 15:48:27 Plowsof denied it himself 15:48:36 anyway 15:48:42 who cares 15:48:48 In other words, the changing of the terms as it were is a slight, but understandable, misread of the situation 15:48:57 you can be helpful and unprofessional at once. I've good impressions of ofrnxmr since he is unbanned, but I do understand fear from some, only time will make ofrn either right or wrong imo 15:48:59