06:36:45 Intel SGX has been cracked 06:36:57 SCRT network is fucked AGAIN 06:37:11 second time this has happened 07:45:43 https://www.themoneromoon.com/p/the-monero-moon-issue-73 07:49:56 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/9458 07:49:58 would like to get feedback on that 08:32:13 if thats for devs and not the average user then the 'reference implementation' is commonly used amongst them (relevant meta issue for naming the monero gui https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/384) 10:32:17 I would imagine SCRT will still keep being used, regardless. 10:33:15 gotta bring *privacy*to web3 10:33:17 haha no 10:33:19 nobody uses it already 10:33:28 look at the chart, its below launch price lmao 10:39:46 If nobody uses it, then why does it matter whether it's broken or not? 10:46:02 it doesnt 10:46:10 its just another case study 10:46:41 fair 11:23:04 @matrix89323:matrix.org are you a spam 11:23:08 I guess you are 11:23:12 don't lie to us 11:23:21 banhammer should fall upon the heretics 12:32:49 plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org: 12:32:52 banhammer that account 12:33:09 Confirmed spammer 12:39:22 Thanks 12:52:55 so he was banned yesterday via banhammer 15:00 ish utc (matrix89323) 13:26:18 left a comment on the haveno front end proposal, i propose that we move kewbits proposal directly to the work in progress list and fund it using the remaining haveno front end funds https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/295#note_25983 13:38:15 Sounds good to me 🫡 13:41:21 kewbit can you make the old ui concept a reality 13:42:34 there is so much xmr left in that proposal, if you are good at this and want to, you should just do the whole thing 13:44:42 if we already have the funding and the person, we should aim for a brand new, most importantly: intuitive & simple to understand ui 13:57:10 I’ll do it 13:57:14 Whatever we need 13:57:33 wait for real 13:58:07 But you’re saying you want to change to the old UI? 13:59:04 yeah there was a concept ui 13:59:14 I can apply heavy inspiration from the old UI into a native app yes but not HTML 13:59:50 remember to mention "but it will meet all the functional requirements" 13:59:56 and scene 14:00:03 I think plowsoff linked it to me, I have a look and it follows most of the functional features described already 14:00:09 I think plowsoff linked it to me, I had a look and it follows most of the functional features described already 14:00:13 CUT 14:01:04 https://www.figma.com/design/ijVTy2RIF8j36LF5y2sRtt/Haveno-Product-Design 14:01:28 this was the originally proposed concept 14:02:06 Ok this is very interesting and I like it 14:02:19 This is only in figma format at the moment? 14:03:02 No 14:03:13 i believe so 14:03:15 https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno-design 14:03:21 https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno-ui 14:03:30 its from here and i have no idea if any work thats already been done is re-usable 14:04:07 The great thing is I’ve got the functional layout, so we can just alter the design to fit whatever is needed, I just went for the unstoppable swap inspired kind of theme 14:06:24 This is quite a large project and would require full time, the app at the moment is designed for mobile primarily (in terms of look and feel), but we can evolve the layout to fit more of a desktop does like in that figma. So we can make it responsive to the OS 14:07:38 So if you’re using windows it will show you something similar to the figma but mobile has a different layout but all within the app codebase. 14:07:41 We've got 453 XMR + the bounties, right plowsof? 14:08:25 yeah that would be needed 14:08:27 but free ross is back https://bounties.monero.social/posts/128/100-211m-mvp-tor-based-mobile-web-application-to-interact-with-ledger-nano-x-and-haveno 14:10:28 Sounds like we’ve almost got a plan 14:10:56 did freeross put the 100XMR into the boutny? 14:11:02 did freeross put the 100XMR into the bounty? 14:11:14 Not sure isn’t it anonymous? 14:11:49 yeah but he could still say / proof if he did it 14:12:19 Who cares if he did it 14:12:32 if he didn't, id just give the bounty to kewbit because freeross has some weird requirements set for it and the essence of the bounty is fulfilled without them 14:12:58 If you put up a bounty, and ppl start working on the project, you cant turn around and ask for a refund 14:13:11 if he put in the 100, his "right" to insist on specific features/framework is a lot bigger than if he didnt 14:13:32 no it isnt 14:13:43 you can if specifically requested things arent realized 14:14:10 It’s a tricky situation, I think we should involve him perhaps. 14:14:14 you sent $ to the bounty, your only right is to say "i sent $" 14:15:02 Not after sending $.... the bounty isnt "we have 25 donors that all say to do things differently" 14:15:04 we cant just change bounty requirements, not if freeross said "i want this included", sends 100 xmr and then we have something built that doesnt include it and say "thanks for the money" 14:15:25 FreeRoss: 14:15:41 if freeross didnt send the 100 it doesnt matter 14:16:06 because the donator likely just wanted the essence of the bounty realized and doesnt insist on a specific framework 14:16:14 It doesnt matter _who_ sent the $ 14:16:32 At all 14:16:35 it does 14:16:48 The donator wanted a haveno client, but they over specified and it complicates things. 14:16:52 you cant just "scam" a bounty, nobody would ever use it again 14:16:58 If i send 1xmr, does that mean i csn say "add monerochan" 14:17:17 No, it doesnt. It means i can say "i sent $ to this bounty" 14:17:22 if you made the bounty and included it from the beginning, yeah 14:17:55 Can we did out who donated and ask their opinion? Or impossible? 14:18:09 we can ask for freeross if he sent it 14:18:23 Ask for the view key 14:18:29 and if he did we can ask him if he would be fine with you getting it or if he wants a refund 14:18:34 if i am the proposer and the donor, akk that means is that im using the bounty platform for a commission that i cannot afford 14:19:05 sure 14:19:06 thats the definition of bounty 14:19:08 "do this get paid" 14:19:10 donating doesnt give me special powers 14:19:12 "do this, get paid" 14:19:57 and we dont have the right to say "ok you said you want this and donated 99% of the funds but we will do it differently" 14:20:08 It would be ideal if we can explain to the donator he will still get what he wants in essence, whoever it was. I’m sure they are tracking the bounty page. 14:20:15 we ask "is it ok if we do it differently?" 14:20:18 My point is: it doesnt matter WHO donated the $. They dont get to choose the direction of the bounty 14:20:28 Pretty much 14:20:55 If we can all agree on this that makes things easier 14:21:00 they literally do ofrn 14:21:14 Youre conflating 2 unrelated responsibilities. Donors dont get to change the proposal 14:21:35 there would be no changing 14:21:43 we are the ones who want to change it 14:21:46 so we need to ask if its ok 14:21:59 you cant just rugpull the bounty requirements 14:22:05 And its plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org: 's job (not really, but lets blane plow) to ensure the viability of s proposal before allowing it to go to funding 14:22:08 and fund something "completely different" 14:22:41 silly plowsof 14:22:57 why did he allow "ledger support" on a haveno program, makes no sense 14:22:59 By community consensus or donator consent? 14:23:08 You cant just make unicorn requirements either 14:23:11 1. it was a personal endeavour and out of scope, never to be allowed on the bounties as written 14:23:43 IF freeross is behind the 100 xmr we need to ask if hes fine with our proposed changes or wants a refund 14:23:44 simple as that 14:23:52 so removing some requirements e.g. "elm framework" where another solution fulfils it just as good. elm was put there because freeross knows elm / will be using elm 14:23:57 if he didnt send them, just use the funds because the essence is still fulfilled 14:24:05 First we need proof 14:24:13 no we dont 14:24:15 Simple as that 14:24:19 spendproof is easy enough to do 14:24:24 no ofrn 14:24:48 If a donor wants their funds back, they should have said so before any work was done 14:24:49 but now with freeross returning / commenting, the bounty funds en entirety are not guaranteed to go to kewbit 14:24:53 i know "they donated it for us to use" but you cant just change stuff like this 14:24:58 There is no harm in asking the donators opinion first, even if you guys have the final say 14:25:10 if he should complete the bounty before kewbit as written then theres no arguments 14:25:14 Maybe mb is freeross /s 14:25:30 Ask all of the donors 14:25:34 nah i have never heard of elm 14:25:38 yo whats going on 14:25:43 Did freeross does start the project already? 14:25:49 freeross is not behind the 100xmr, he is a dev looking for funding 14:26:02 Cant just ask 1, as if the 1 is some sort of authority 14:26:10 https://bounties.monero.social/posts/128/100-211m-mvp-tor-based-mobile-web-application-to-interact-with-ledger-nano-x-and-haveno 14:26:50 There is significant conflict 14:27:19 I’m not sure how to proceed, first I will response to FreeRoss. 14:27:24 I’m not sure how to proceed, first I will respond to FreeRoss. 14:27:32 so basically kewbit started the bounty and tweaked some things that are deemed justifiable but freeross didn't received notification and now he is mad about the changes? 14:27:38 ok in that case 14:27:43 give the funds to kewbit 14:27:53 What if i send 0.1xmr, can i get a refund too? 14:28:30 ofrn i AM POSITIVE you are not stupid enough to not get how that would be different 14:28:57 This is a fair statement, FreeRoss is responsible for tracking his bounty. 14:29:22 anyways, kewbit, do a ccs with the 4XX XMR from haveno ui ccs + the 100 from the bounty 14:29:24 He only responded yesterday evening I believe. 14:29:32 Sure 14:29:38 Let’s do it 14:29:53 then people can discuss on that for a week and once it gets merged it gets insta-funded 14:29:55 yeah of course, the bounty is freeross' one. Why are you talking about haveno ui ccs ? 14:30:06 then people can discuss on that for a week (work out details) and once it gets merged it gets insta-funded 14:30:22 HI FreeRoss here. I did not fund the bounty ... 14:30:30 look whos here 14:30:33 ??? 14:30:52 hello freeross 14:31:00 Hi there ... 14:31:12 I think we are going in a very good direction with the current app, and we should stick with it and apply those Figma designs for desktop over time. 14:32:03 ofrn if i create a bounty, say it needs to have monerochan, fund it with $20k and then the community says "sure weve already made a version without monerochan" id be angry if those funds just get paid out to that person who didnt deliver what i asked for in the bounty 14:32:05 Sorry I hadn’t got a chance to response to your message in the bounty yet. 14:32:18 Sorry I hadn’t got a chance to respond to your message in the bounty yet. 14:32:35 yeah it looks very good already 14:32:49 You played yourself if you sent funds to your own bounty 🥴 14:32:54 I can hardly complain ... 14:33:52 I understand what youre saying, but again, it shouldnt have been opened for funding in its current form 14:34:08 thats stupid. putting money in the bounty signals id like to have this and there is funding secured for whoever fulfills it, not that you can just take it for something else 14:34:21 Drama enjoyer advice: @freeross:monero.social and @kewbit:matrix.org you should talk about that in direct message. I swear discussing this here will only be a pain and counter-productive. What's important is that we know if you managed to arranged yourself or not. 14:34:30 Question here is: freeross, are you ok with kewbit's approach 14:35:49 I am happy to chat with FreeRoss in private but the projects are very divergent. 14:36:09 I’m not sure how we’d come to agreement, how familiar are you with Flutter? 14:36:54 And this, have you seen the CCS also? There is more info there. 14:38:45 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/489 14:38:48 Yes, but if I am to play a role I feel I can only make a valuable contribution with a web UI/Elm/BDD/TDD approach, at least, for the aspects that I'm involved with. I've used React in the past and I don't intend going back ... sorry to appear dogmatic, but I'm fine to stay out of this particular bounty if that is too troublesome ... 14:39:39 If you can write native code in Dart, you can be a contributor. 14:39:49 And get your share 14:40:23 @kewbit not at all familiar. It sounds like it has a lot going for it, but I'm focused on web ... 14:40:50 Being this far into a native app I just can’t see a solution that will work other than that. Unless we completely dump the work already done which is a significant amount 14:41:15 Haveno is not a web platform, going for a webui was a strange decision anyways 14:42:28 I agree on @monerobull:matrix.org on the fact that a full client web application for communicating with haveno is really cumbersome, tho not impossible. 14:42:43 Imo kewbit stick with your app & do the desktop UI on top of that for the bounty xmr + old haveno CCS xmr 14:43:09 Make a CCS to discuss the details and it gets instantly funded 14:43:30 We finally get our nice UI and kewbit a bunch of xmr 14:43:33 I don’t have many complaints about a web UI but really you have more you can do with the system natively, I prefer the native some prefer web style because its familiar and you can easily write apps in HTML and CSS with many people are comfortable with, my opinion is that a native app is more sensible. 14:44:19 just to be sure @kewbit:matrix.org did you started your application work because of the bounty? or did you started without knowledge of it 14:44:36 Because of bounty 14:44:57 With knowledge 14:45:01 My name is ofrnkewbit 14:45:35 I saw it was a large payout so wanted to get involved and just got started quite quality 14:46:16 I doubt a shiny front end will have any major impact on haveno forks usage. A an app that works mobile too? More likely 14:46:57 Admittedly with my vision of improvements to is, which were deemed as a fair. I then described those in the CCS to be more specific. 14:47:21 Admittedly with my vision of improvements to it, which were deemed as a fair. I then described those in the CCS to be more specific. 14:47:33 For me it make sense that kewbit receive funds for it works. My real question is: Is there a chance someone pick up FreeRoss's bounty as is. 14:48:12 Because if there is plausible chance that some people want or want to work on a mobile based one I would say its FreeRoss' responsibility. 14:48:19 Freeross himself claims to be working on it as is 14:48:20 web-based* 14:48:26 freeross was working on something as-is 14:49:01 So i would ignore the bounty for now and focus on the ccs funds. Bounties funds do not belong to the ccs 14:49:05 so he started his bounties -> Received 100XMR -> started working on it? 14:49:18 yeah I agree with plowsof 14:49:28 Syntheticbird please rtfm manual for what bounties site is 14:49:42 But it would likely be deprecated by the flutter app 14:50:02 This is my concern 14:50:05 plowsof i did 14:50:24 Even if Ross worked on it as is 14:50:27 Received funds for starting a bounty? 14:50:36 You dont get paid for bounties b4 delivering 14:50:45 Plow, a more intuitive UI would definitely help 14:50:53 The current one is pretty awful 14:50:55 I can deliver tonight 14:51:04 A mostly working app 😂 14:51:06 Bounty is paid when you deliver, dead or alive 14:51:08 Match the user base of original bisq first monerobull 14:51:14 Then we can talk 14:51:18