02:01:29 https://donate.magicgrants.org/firo 02:02:04 “Help us to provide sustainable funding for free and open-source contributors working on freedom tech and projects that help Monero flourish.” Lol 03:14:01 What is lol about that, lil thingy? 03:38:48 <321bob321:monero.social> Why does it have monero commitee general fund 04:11:56 Why does it not have monero committee general fund? 06:05:37 it’s a firo page talking about helping monero flourish, my dyslexic son 06:39:51 @plowof Can we add https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/511 to the agenda for tomorrow, please? 07:38:29 yes, please merge 07:39:26 also he spells his name plowsof 07:39:31 tomorrow is todays today, definitely 07:39:50 I will not be able to attend 07:40:58 nioCats +merge by proxy 07:42:30 the meeting later today (just over 7 hours) https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1088 07:43:10 kewbit did you share your ccs update somewhere? 07:45:29 No im really trying to get this tor PoW in docker compiled because there is no decent ones, I need to use it, It will help people test out the work so far, let’s see if I can finish in the next few hours 07:46:14 It’s taking longer cause I’m doing the container multi-arch too 😂 07:53:19 that's a fine update, thank you :D 08:05:14 <321bob321:monero.social> Updront payments is the new black? 08:05:27 <321bob321:monero.social> Upfront* 08:07:50 <321bob321:monero.social> Nioc your zoom ai clone will be able to attend meetings soon 08:20:24 plowsof: you can remove my CCS from the agenda. I, gracefully, received an offer from a private entity to fund the work and so won't be going through the CCS anymore. I did want to go through the CCS (as i firmly believe it was a good proposal), but the offer of an upfront payment and removal of effort required to get the proposal through the CCS process was too good to refuse. Thanks all for the comments, criticism, 08:20:24 and support. 08:24:19 [CCS Proposals] midipoet closed merge request #510: midipoet - Policy and Regulatory Framework Research https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/510 08:40:27 midipoet congratulations 09:03:14 congratulations midipoet. 10:56:41 I have a CCS drafted and I'm just waiting on the final quote. I do have my own estimate (non-binding) for the range it'll be within however. 10:58:24 Ideally, I'd be able to bring it up at the meeting today instead of kicking it down the road another two weeks 11:00:15 (sorry to be so last minute with it, I only finished writing the draft last night) 11:00:36 sleep is important 11:00:59 <321bob321:monero.social> So 2kxmr is gone ? 11:06:13 https://gist.github.com/kayabaNerve/3723d0a3f2b62ef8ef00c0c4a574fb8e for the draft which doesn't specify an amount due to the amount being pending. Obviously, a lot of commentary will depend on the amount (I can't off-hand ask for a million dollars last I checked) so I'll refrain from making the PR to the CCS repo until I have that info. All good if this can't be included this mee 11:06:15 ting, I'll defer if there's time/sufficient basis to discuss to plowsof. 11:10:17 SyntheticBird: Sleep isn't, energy is, and caffeine is an acceptable source of energy /s 11:26:48 kayabanerve: maybe i missed this, but why the upfront immediate payment? Not saying it's necessarily bad, but just wondering why. 11:27:37 midipoet: Because auditors generally take payment up-front, Cypher Stack is a trusted entity, and this policy has been done for Cypher Stack prior? 11:28:07 Ah ok, fair enough. 11:28:45 I'll clarify I wrote that in for the above reasons. I did not ask Cypher Stack if they'd be willing to have payment deferred and they did not explicitly raise this request. 11:29:47 To be honest, i was mostly ignorant to the fact that auditors were paid up front. 11:30:29 Eh. That may just be the auditors I've dealt with but I believe a few past CCSs to auditing companies (distinct from Cypher Stack) have also been paid upfront. 11:32:23 Volatility buffers fan be reduced. This happened on one of CS prev ccs. Auditors have done work for us without 100% upfront, its just that CS have done alot of work already so less of a need to escrow 11:32:35 s/fan/can* 11:32:45 Veridise was paid after re: their work on divisors for FCMP++s. I'd actually have to double check my individual contracts with Cypher Stack to see if I paid before/on delivery 🤔 11:33:30 The CCS gave 100% upfront to CS and we benefit ed from a volatility buffer removal 11:35:09 The Bulletproofs+ audit seems to have been paid on delivery. For RandomX, the amount was paid as a lump sum on May 30, 2019. All of the funded audits in that CCS were dated July however. 11:36:19 So it seems Kudelski/X41/Quarkslab took payment up front or tevador/hyc did and abstracted the payment schedule (no hate if they did, just noting I'm unclear the exact timeline as I try to look for am I right about this being general practice or if I'm wrong) 11:38:21 Anyways, if it's controversial here, I can ask Diego to accept payment upon completion/ask for the quote to consider how it's payment upon completion. 11:56:18 I don't think its general practice 11:56:44 Its case-by-base basis, and depends on who what where when why how etc 11:59:11 Proposer decides how theyd like to propose, and there may be auditors that wont accept xmr, and/or will need someone to convert the xmr for them. 11:59:13 when we opened bp++ ccs, it was based on quotes. It was not determined to be paid up front and the amount changed after it was funded 12:03:19 ccs for essential stuff doesnt follow standard rules, but is held to a higher standard. Example being that its entirely possible for generalfund to fully cover a ccs, to work with magic etc on payouts, and just as possible for payment to only happen once work is completed as it is for it to be paid at the start. It, at least in part, depends on the viability and quality of deliverables 12:11:12 We're still *hacking* the CCS because its where funds are but for god sake after FCMP++/Carrot/Jamtis is released it would be great time to generalizing it. For the sake of everyone (proposal, coordinators and donators) 12:12:10 "generalizing it"? 12:13:54 Abstracting the CCS and identify common properties among proposal to make a general system that can formalize and cover all the corner cases that have recurrent for so long (upfront payment, rate, milestones, decisions, etc...) 12:14:43 I mean, people just make arbitrary proposals now. While I'm not against updating the rules as helpful, I don't think it needs mass reform regarding the type of proposals which can be made. 12:15:33 It arguably needs reform on how it's toxic to people who use it for pseudo-employment due to the latency and bureaucracy, yet at this point I'd suggest MAGIC hire developers to solve that. 12:16:21 The issue is MAGIC doesn't have the funds on-hand and developers aren't eager to fundraise with MAGIC due to the reduced attention. 12:18:28 On another note: I think reddit bans greatly diminished our influence on social media. r/Monero was one of the most important community and I'm sure MAGIC would have received more attention (from users and whales) at the time. 12:35:56 The problem with the CCS is how the community vets proposals 12:36:26 kayabanerve this is the ccs where cs where paid upfront. no drama and they completed the work in a timely manner https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/443 12:37:20 Vetting of proposals is, of course critical, but how it's done currently is problematic for a host of reasons. 12:37:27 Yes, I'm aware of the precedent. I was trying to find arguments for/against it being general practice. 12:37:55 midipoet: I haven't seen it as such except for the latency/bureaucracy. What issues do you have to raise? 12:37:55 the CCS has sent funds directly to MAGIC once before. so that is an option 12:57:54 On another note: I think reddit bans greatly diminished our influence on social media. <<>> as I am almost never there, could you explain what this banning is? 13:05:56 Hey 13:06:00 https://github.com/everoddandeven/monerod-gui 13:06:06 nioCat Reddit suddently started shadow-banning any users using VPN/Tor (even users using the reddit onion service) Meaning you can access Reddit, but people cannot see you (404), comments, upvotes and posts are invisible or automatically deleted. Naturally a lot of people that were using r/Monero were shadow banned and, therefore less comments, less posts. As of today I'm unable t o inform the reddit community on Cuprate advancements. I would need to buy a residential proxy for this which is not free and sometimes don't work. 13:06:29 Take a look on my monerod gui, I have done a lot of work since last time 13:06:39 LETS GO 13:07:20 kayabanerve: i think we (me included) should try and appraise proposals against "does this make enough sense (timing, milestones, cost, etc) that someone (we have lots of different types of people in the community) might be willing to donate to it", as opposed to "am i going to donate to this?". The former is a more rational approach, attempting to use some relatively objective and unbiased measures. The latter is less 13:07:20 so. For example, the proposal i recently submitted raised valid concerns from the community on scope, domain/topic, value, cost, etc, but it also instigated a different sort of discussion that wasn't helpful for anyone. In the end it was just easier for me to remove myself from the process. I also don't think it's productive, at all, to point to previously successfully completed proposals as evidence that future 13:07:20 proposals, or opinions should be disregarded. This seems wholly non-sensical. One would think successfully completed proposals should be viewed positively by the community (at best), or (at least) as indication that others may value slightly different work/outputs than others. That's my two cents, i am sure not everyone agrees though. 13:08:08 builds are working on windows, mac and linux. There are still some bugs that I need to fix, but it is already 90% of the way there. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. (Sorry for the spam= 13:08:16 builds are working on windows, mac and linux. There are still some bugs that I need to fix, but it is already 90% of the way there. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. (Sorry for the spam) 13:08:41 everoddandeven: thanks for you job will try it later in the day. 13:11:03 I advocate for any proposal I find reasonable, not for any proposal I care about. 13:11:11 midipoet I agree with you and I'm everyone. So everyone agrees with you. 13:19:45 Naturally, in order to judge a proposal many reviewers will first project their personal expectations and values on it in order to find concerns or/and interests. I think it's perfectly normal. However, some really seems to value themselves as representing the average donators. Add to that the fact that we don't really know exactly how a decision is taken (plowsof? community + plo wsof? community + plowsof + luigi?) and the proposer is just found trapped in an endless, *Can we just try it at least?*. Regarding your proposal, I agrees with rbrunner view on it and I found it good and with potential benefits, but was just not convinced by the hour rate. Tho it's my concern, I don't expect (and don't want) it to be a blocker. Just raising the question to more people (including you), *Is it sound? 90$/hr for that seems like beyond the chart*. 13:21:29 And I think it should be nothing more than questions to ask for when the meeting will take place. Instead, at the moment, at each f*cking question comes a potential drama and stress to for the proposer. 13:23:03 How is a decision taken? In reality? Or ideally? 13:23:18 Ideally, a combination of weighted consensus 13:23:35 well maybe reality have wrong weights then. 13:23:40 Reality, luigi is 49-51% 13:23:44 here we go 13:23:46 don't save your questions until the meeting, put them under the porposal as soon as possible. quick fire questions in a meeting (where we are generally rushed for time) is not ideal 13:24:04 plowsof ack. 13:24:24 Proposals can have full community support and still be veto'd 13:24:52 Or can be straight up scams with sockpuppets voting for them, and be merged 13:25:03 Or can be monero tesla 13:27:04 Plowsof exists to try to make the process based on sane consensus, but he's powerless to block or merge anything. He coordinates, in part, try to get community to speak up "or forever hold their peace" 13:27:07 syntheticbird depends on the question of course* 13:27:38 disclaimer: I am speaking on behalf of plowsof w/o his input 13:27:42 Yes thats why I said *potential drama*. 13:39:06 "And I think it should be nothing more than questions to ask for when the meeting will take place. Instead, at the moment, at each f*cking question comes a potential drama and stress to for the proposer." <- this. But even worse is for me people not even reading the response, simply answering stuff to promote their stuff, and asked have you even read my answer replying not even read your answers here. How can one intepret that different then simply as 13:39:07 trying to do everything to stop it? 13:41:28 for real. 13:41:36 complete agree 14:00:34 The other thing for me, what disturbs me, but this can be only a very personal issue, because I end up always to make more work and charge less. But it seams to me whatever rate you will call, it is too much, but from people who are not intrested into your proposal and and probably not even onces donated anything to any proposal. Like monero(money) would be finite and better to don't pay anything to anybody because the faucet will close. This is for me 14:00:36 crazy, shouldn't monero prosper people in taking the state(s) out of the equation? Money(or monero in this case) get generated by value, that means somebody creates value and this will reflect the value in xmr, not the other way around. I personal think we should abolish as far as possible xmr from fiat and xmr, but this doesn't happen if one calculate from fiat into xmr. I decided for me that I want to charge for a normal promodoro session (100min 14:00:37 highly focused work) 1 xmr here and 2 xmr for closed source work. Reasoning behind is easy - you don't work only in this sessions where you produce, you also research, build mock ups, test code (you would normally show never anybody, because it's only a hack to see the direction you are going. But then you see all the drama from that gatekeepers, and I personally can not take any drama, so I go down with my rate, but for sure at the end you arrive by 2- 14:00:39 3x the time estimated, if you have no drmatic findings on the way. But then for sure the rate fiat/xmr goes up just then and you adjust again down - not because you think it would be right or fair, but avoid at least one drama, and at the end when you get paid the rate will be lower then on the starting point. I mean, for me it is crazy. When there is nobody for whom the value is a good deal, there will be no funding, so why should a person not donating 14:00:40 telling a person donating what value is okay? 14:03:05 donor are anonymous. 14:03:49 Nobody commenting has to do so with a disclaimer "i am donating". And donating to a proposal doesn't add weight to your commentary 14:04:16 edit: donor are allowed to be anonymous. 14:04:18 Heck, there in the wall of text are more then one issue wrapped in. But mostly I think it breaks down to two things. 1) I think the donators are able enough to see if the agree with the value. 2) the thinking in fiat (although it is still afacting one) is contra the aim of monero IMO. 14:04:39 2 = i agree 14:05:49 some proposals are made in $, because the funding is for outside parties (such as audits) 14:06:54 " donor are allowed to be anonymous." <- what does it matter, the donor is the most honest voter, he puts the money where his mouth is. This is the point IMO. I can get my CCS merged, but if it is not worth anything for a donor, then there is no funding. All the people critizizing everybody for the rates, will not then throw something in the pot. This is what I mean with it. 14:07:00 aside from those, i don't like that ppl want to add volatility buffers, or abandon work when price dips (but never refund $ when price moons) 14:08:25 Some ppl add expiry date to their funding proposal. Such as "if not funded in 2 weeks, close it and donate money to jet fund" 14:09:13 One problem with yolo merging everything, is having proposals sit unfunded forever 14:10:07 Look at rottenwheel's "pay me 5k for being scammed" kuno. If we had that on the "funding" page, it just looks bad. 14:10:34 I think the optimal curve for xmr would be a just a bit over the real inflation (this would lock in users into xmr and weaken fiat and hopefully lead to a colapse of the state so everybody can propser on ther fruits they are creating instead ending up us slaves). But when here seems to be more a socialist (gatekeeper that nobody earns "too much") then it sends IMO a wrong signal. 14:11:06 Then you also need to look at history of completed and in-progress ccs. What ccs have been completed successfully where the work is live/active today? What ccs are dead? 14:11:32 We have a _very_ low success rate when ccs aren't directly involving core development 14:12:57 "Then you also need to look at history of completed and in-progress ccs. What ccs have been completed successfully where the work is live/active today? What ccs are dead?" <- don't agree, I full blown my privacy for the first CCS I made. But in reality, the payouts are after the milestones. If the payout would be before I could agree. 14:13:02 for successed, heres an easy one: Feather wallet 14:13:25 If xmrsigner finished? Usable? Live? 14:13:32 Is* 14:13:39 "We have a _very_ low success rate when ccs aren't directly involving core development" <- I think that is mostly because of drama. 14:13:59 No, its because the ccs's were no-good 14:15:27 "If xmrsigner finished? Usable? Live?" finished: yes, usable: yes, but I would not recommend it. Live? Don't know what is live for you, if it is production state, in my opinion not, but if you would see it from the standpoint of the original MoneroSigner proposal I would say it is overdelivered. 14:15:59 "No, its because the ccs's were no-good" -> elaborate. 14:16:06 Thats saying thr original monerosigner proposal was no-good, yeah? 14:16:26 And not production rdy = state of every other non-core proposal 14:17:20 Everything in left incomplete or in an unusable state, abandoned or worse 14:17:30 Really? Didn't you mention feather? 14:17:49 i said feather was a success 14:18:04 "Everything in left incomplete or in an unusable state, abandoned or worse" <- but I think that comes together with that drama/ 14:18:12 One of the few 14:18:32 "i said feather was a success" " And not production rdy = state of every other non-core proposal", is feather core? 14:18:34 drama isnt a milestone 14:19:23 "We have a _very_ low success rate when ccs aren't directly involving core development" << very low 14:19:32 "for successed, heres an easy one: Feather wallet" << feather one of the very low exceptions 14:19:38 "drama isnt a milestone" seems I didn't express myself well. I think that a lot get abandoned because of the drama... Not sure, but my impression. 14:20:05 No. a lot of Ppl do 2/3 milestones then ride off into the sunset 14:20:14 "for successed, heres an easy one: Feather wallet" << feather one of the very low exceptions, ah, got it now. Thanks for the patience to clarify. 14:20:52 "No. a lot of Ppl do 2/3 milestones then ride off into the sunset" <- but what is the reason for? 14:21:14 Or scope the project to be incomplete, then ride off into the sunset 14:22:10 Reason is $. It (was) very easy to get paid to not do you work herr 14:22:14 I guess it is underfunding and lack of in the project. Well, maybe some bad apples, but I don't think that is the majority. 14:22:24 Devs used to roll ccs for years on end and never fix a single bug 14:22:53 It was the majority b4 plowsof ahowed up with his puppy 14:23:53 "Devs used to roll ccs for years on end and never fix a single bug", you mean after CCS finished? 14:24:25 and there are some ppl still here who still miss the old days when you could get funding to act like youre a good person, meanwhile you were making 20k off of monerokon 14:24:53 I mean, devs on ccs used to open a new ccs every 3 months and never do any work 14:25:24 Community would vote for them w/o checking any work, and other devs wouldnt speak up _because they dont want drama_ 14:25:27 weird 14:25:59 after one of these devs was exposed by perfect-daemon, he threatened to sue everyone 14:26:12 sue? WTF 14:26:14 Threatened to shoot me 14:26:28 Went on a reddit campaign to cancel selsta and luigi 14:26:56 WTF, what shit people are there in the world. 14:27:03 scammers arent good ppl, and theres a reason why good ppl dont speak up 14:27:21 :o can I express myself here even like that or issue with libera? 14:27:30 bad actors are good at acting 14:28:24 i dont think youre crossing any boundaries 14:28:39 but they end normally up in government :D So normally they have a title or a badge where you can identify them (only half serious) 14:30:41 you have people like erc, who misrepresented haveno, who gambled away the funds, and then went to reddit and twitter to try to blame woodser and attack selsta 14:31:03 "i dont think youre crossing any boundaries" <- thank you, I'm never sure about that, normally my accounts get everywhere blocked when I voice my opinion in the last years, I'm already even afraid to write email :D (not really, but almost). 14:33:40 i don't think good proposals see too much unnecessary drama. I think the major part is helping set a proposal up for success 14:34:51 :D reddit I got also blocked for being honest, reddit looks for me like a platform of very leftist wokies hostile egotrip insanes. I deleted all my comments and account after getting blocked once. And with twitter, but I think social media in general, most people have time for this crap, so you will ever here the side from the less productive more, so I guess it goes at the end in the same direction. 14:35:02 Just like a pull request. Just because the author thinks its perfect, doesnt mean that more eyes can't find issues or help improve it. and "more" isnt quantity. Nobody needs useless trolls reviewing stuff 14:35:05 Who made 20k from MoneroKon? 14:35:14 Msvb 14:35:43 Wokies ? Leftists ? WTF 14:35:45 Try Feminists 14:36:07 9k merch, 6k firo, other invoices that i dont rememeber 14:36:25 "i don't think good proposals see too much unnecessary drama. I think the major part is helping set a proposal up for success" <- don't know. How you set up a proposal for success? 14:37:00 By checking it for issues, overselling, underdelivering etc 14:38:09 "Just like a pull request. Just because the author thinks its perfect, doesnt mean that more eyes can't find issues or help improve it." <- Ack. For me it was weird that there was so many people cheering on X, but I get (almost) no feedback. 14:38:31 ofrnxmr: i am not going to get into this with you again, but from someone on the inside of nearly all physical events we have done, msvb was always one of the most committed and hardest workers. They (a number of times) supplied things that nobody else seemed able to, and those things benefitted Monero and it's ecosystem. I would even go as far as to say the Monero related events have been lessened by the fact we don't 14:38:31 have the same level of effort and commitment of msvb anymore. 14:38:36 "Try Feminists" <- ? 14:39:14 ofrnxmr: the issue is that you seem completely unable to see others perspective, and continually bully people until they leave. 14:39:24 At least that seems your intention 14:39:34 effort and commitment have NOTHINGZ TO DO WITH MERCH OR BADGES 14:40:00 I dont bully ppl til they leave, i ask them to leave 14:40:05 ofrnxmr: in some instances, monero events would have had no merch and no badges without msvb 14:40:13 good 14:40:18 Because nobody else stepped up to source/manufacturer them 14:40:29 Badges were a scam and he stole a sponsor with them 14:40:40 Then lied about using hardware⊙go to sell them 14:40:49 And lied about selling them at defcon 14:40:57 Some of the most prized monero "objects" came from msvb and his "design lab" or whatever you call it 14:41:01 And tried to sell them TO ccs at a 100% markup 14:41:18 ofrnxmr: i am aware of your perspective 14:41:25 Scammets gonna scam and birds of a feather, midi 14:41:57 I already said you guys stick together. I didnt kick him out of mk, you guys did 14:42:01 ofrnxmr: do you know how many badges msvb has produced for Monero? 14:42:08 Have you even ever seen them? 14:42:14 for monero? 0 14:42:35 160euros he was asking for them at mk 14:42:39 Ok, for monero events.. 14:43:13 ceetee is the badges expert 14:43:42 iirc they are generic, missing features, and are reused for multiple currencies and events 14:43:46 So you don't know? 14:44:03 How many? Over the years? No, i dont keep track 14:44:26 there were different badges, I got one for free and gave it away for cost 14:44:38 It was like 200 badges that firo purchased at $60/badge 14:44:40 100* 14:45:14 and i dont remember how mant he wanted ccs to purchase at $40 a pop 14:45:36 And i dont know what he told vik the price was in email from hardware⊙go 14:46:24 the issue with msvb was that when anyone questioned anything he ignored them and I'm not just talking ofrn 14:47:46 Cryptohip badges 14:47:47 20000 USD 14:47:49 Cost of four hundred electronic badges 14:47:50 I'd ignore people in here as well, if i had more self discipline 14:48:08 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/397 14:48:31 anyway I promised to miss today's meeting and I keep my promises 14:48:37 .bbl 14:49:39 move carrot audit to funding required and change the name of FCMP++ to rabbit 14:50:44 Moment of silence b4 the meeting 14:50:56 "I'd ignore people in here as well, if i had more self discipline" <- :D can feel you, try also every day to ignore so much and I can't mostly. 14:57:32 What are we fighting about today? 14:57:43 msvb still has the best quality hats / tshirts. they have never been matched to this day 14:58:31 It must be the beans... 14:58:35 so im told ! 14:58:52 No more beans please, they here everywhere 14:59:20 Lol. 14:59:47 Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1088 15:00:10 Imagine conquering half the world, have tons of different food options to pick from and of all them, the absolute lovely British people had to pick two things! 15:00:17 Toast and beans. 😂😂 15:00:29 :D 15:00:46 we exported cricket, thats the best we could offer 15:00:53 greetings everyone 15:00:57 Oy mate! It is meeting time! 15:01:11 hey plowsof :) 15:01:14 Ya got a loicense for that meeting m8? 15:01:16 danbob was asking about the 2000 xmr here earlier : - Kayabanerve shares a [summary thus far](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/449#note_26540) of FCMP related tasks. (Please report this fake kayaba twitter profile [x.com](https://x.com/kayabaNaerve) 15:01:21 hello 15:01:33 Oh, that's what that was about? 15:01:41 kayabanerves fake clone twtiter account is going strong haha 15:01:47 I saw a message asking about 2000 XMR and had no idea the context. 15:02:01 yes i assume it was the research fund 15:02:35 I wish I had fake profiles under my name :P 15:03:08 xenu pinche vato culero. 15:03:13 The 2000 XMR for FCMP++ research (if that is the exact amount raised) isn't gone. It still has the majority of itself held by the CCS. I'm making a new CCS to audit monero-serai/monero-wallet. That's a distinct scope from the FCMP++ tasks and isn't dipping into that pool of funds. 15:03:13 i have made the first purchase from plowsofs fund today, i purchased a microwave using a monero funded giftcard. it was 59 euros. i hope the community approves 15:03:36 I'm pretty sure that is the amount we raised for the FCMP++ Research task, I just have to double check before I comment with certainty. 15:03:46 Thievery! 15:03:54 plowsof resign and refund immediately! 15:04:41 :'( 15:04:48 thanks for clarifying kayabanerve 15:06:04 https://pod.xmr.fan/ from pluja of kycnot.me if keeping up with the releases :) 15:06:21 new featherwallet is out https://featherwallet.org/changelog/ 15:06:35