00:04:21 <321bob321:monero.social> There are heaps of forms, but whether you want to spin it up or not 00:57:04 Getting fucked an leaving the community also works dude ;) 00:58:23 You’re a total nonce 00:58:34 Call for submissions to join committee already out, or still WIP? 00:58:47 We're not the one spelling decentraliSation with S, britcuck. 00:59:26 Go write about it 00:59:34 Coming out in a few minutes 01:00:30 I also have something coming out 01:00:50 I came out years ago 🌈❤️ 01:01:17 That’s beautiful darling 🦄 01:01:34 MCW after dark? 01:04:04 rottenwheel: https://github.com/MAGICGrants/Monero-Fund-Elections 01:04:18 dates and links updated 01:04:48 sgp_: cheers. If one gets elected to XMR Committee Fund, that doesn't prevent one from applying to say, MAGIC scholarships, right? 01:06:26 I'm going to say tentatively no, because the selection process is done without knowing names etc 01:07:25 sgp_: down. https://magicgrants.org/funds/committee_expectations/ 01:07:33 Down. https://magicgrants.org/funds/monero/monero_fund_voters/ 01:07:44 https://magicgrants.org/funds/voter_expectations/ :P 01:07:49 ok one sec 01:07:55 https://magicgrants.org/funds/voting/ jeez. np! 01:10:59 sgp_: there's zero chance of KYC-free MAGIC payouts, in any and all cases? Or there are some hedge cases where KYC-free payouts would be doable? Not asking for committee roles as those are mostly if not at all times volunteering roles, but more as a general MAGIC project question. 01:18:05 All payouts need to be to a known recipient, yes 01:20:32 :thumb-up: 02:05:36 CCS payout requests should be discussed tbh. 02:06:45 it takes very little time to check [the repo](https://github.com/KewbitXMR/haveno-app/) 03:36:27 I have regained control of my crates.io account and all crates I care about. I will note I was informed by crates.io that monero-wallet was flagged to them and it was not part of a routine check/automated sweep. Considering this has cost me several hours of time, and incredible amount of stress, and has caused one of the crates I built *and am currently having audited* to have a d 03:36:27 irty history, I do take this as an attack against me personally. The innocent argument, that someone didn't know monero-wallet existed and thought they were legitimately reporting squatting due to Cargo's change of policies, doesn't hold IMO given how monero-wallet just had an entire CCS done for it. At the least, I consider it fundamentally selfish where someone had no regard for 03:36:29 me and decided to report it for their own benefit. 03:37:10 It also directly affected the Monero protocol as the crates I registered for the FCMP++ hard fork were hit by this. 03:38:11 I have resolved my account status, and the legitimacy of my monero-* crate registrations, with the crates.io team. I'd like to extend my thanks to the monero-rs organization and boog900 for their assistance during this time. 03:39:29 I'd also like to thank kewbit for transferring monero-wallet back to me, reiterating I do not specifically know who instigated this in the first place. Solely that someone did. 04:09:48 Are these all your crates? 04:09:51 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/PsMEfLgnwRbsNpZZuTFJgaCo 04:12:51 I finished re-registering mine prior to my post here googlemozilla. 04:13:13 monero-serai/monero-wallet aren't two crates. They're a collection of several crates. 04:13:48 monero-seed, monero-polyseed, monero-payment-proofs are part of monero-wallet-util and hosted on my repo for that 04:13:53 https://github.com/kayabaNerve/monero-wallet-util 04:14:35 I'm not reserving 20 crates for future development. They're just pending audit or unable to be published until their dependencies are (and their dependencies are pending audit) 04:15:04 I'm not particularly familiar with Rust, but I assume crates are like npm? These are very important for Serai's release because installing and updating these dependencies rely on them being available in crates? It's good to see that you've got a hold of them again. Thank you again for your work. 04:16:59 Correct in that they're like npm 04:16:59 Serai doesn't have to specify crates via crates.io. This is for the purposes of mass distribution of the work I did for the community. That's why this is so incredibly trashy of whoever flagged my work. 04:18:40 Got it. 04:38:56 A bit worrying though isn’t it? Wallet libraries just able to change hands. 04:40:16 It’s almost as if they’re some sort of.. currency. 04:46:43 Perhaps a trademark of some kind would help? 04:48:04 The Monero group as an entity? 04:48:17 Is Monero project even an entity? 04:48:19 If only there were a Monero Foundation... 04:48:36 Well, it’s seems appropriate to have one. 04:48:52 And simple register trademarks for these names 04:49:02 And simply register trademarks for these names 04:49:19 I had previously suggested the idea, but it appears to be unpopular. 04:49:55 For example, ofrn prefers an anarchist approach, which involves calling out individuals who break rules. 04:50:17 You are repeatedly trying to find ways to centralize the development of Monero. 04:50:21 I would only say it would be unpopular (for me) if no one person has guaranteed a position on the board of it. 04:50:51 I don’t know if that is or isn’t the case 04:51:52 A foundation can be decentralized by having multiple members from around the world. 04:52:00 A bit like a 501(3)c I guess the public control the board so can other companies and government I think though :/ 04:52:28 That's still centralized. You have X amount of people you can put under duress to pull levers at your beck and call. 04:52:39 🤦‍♂️ 04:52:44 It is not a dichotomy 04:52:45 There won't be a XMR foundation, quit asking or proposing it. Or keep wasting your time. :shrug: 04:53:19 Monero is already centralized to a certain extent, as the majority of the CCS funds are controlled by one individual - Luigi. How can a foundation be any worse? 04:53:21 Starting from the fact Core isn't that active at all... 04:53:28 It’s the new centralized decentralization! 04:53:52 That's like saying L-BTC is decentralized because there's a conssortium of partnering companies/signers! 04:54:24 No. Having multiple members is not decentralized. If you need interested in that kind of setup, you can look at Algorand. They have a foundation, CEO and decentralized exchanges and everything you are looking for. 04:54:25 If that’s the truth, people have to have a lot of trust in each other and hope for the best. 04:54:29 The CCS and general fund pot situation should improve once multisig is feasible with FCMP++ and CARROT. 04:54:47 > <@googlemozilla:matrix.org> A foundation can be decentralized by having multiple members from around the world. 04:54:47 No. Having multiple members is not decentralized. If you are interested in that kind of setup, you can look at Algorand. They have a foundation, CEO and decentralized exchanges and everything you are looking for. 04:54:49 Go all in on Algorand boys! 04:54:49 Embracing PoS and establishing a foundation are key steps towards Monero's future, whether you agree or disagree. Unlike Bitcoin, becoming 'ossified' is not an option. We need to stay open to new ideas. 04:54:57 Hahahahahahahahahaha. 04:55:06 > foundation 04:55:12 > CoC 04:55:15 > embrace PoS 04:55:21 Please, go back to ETH. 04:55:23 PoC 04:55:41 Proof of contribution is better than proof of stake 04:55:50 PoS will likely take some time for the community to fully adapt to. Taking the first step towards this change is establishing a foundation. 04:55:52 First Monero becomes a public chain before going PoS. 04:56:00 I can bet 1000 XMR on this. Can you? 04:56:03 But it’s more complex to quantify 04:56:10 PoW is not sustainable. 04:56:18 cool story bro. 04:56:21 back to eth you go. 04:56:32 Algorand is pure PoS 04:56:40 Having a registered foundation can provide some legal protections but it isn't worth it IMO 04:57:01 (in US at least. No idea about other jurisdictions) 04:57:18 Last time some workgroup attempted to register an LLC everyone was losing their marbles. 04:57:27 Imagine if you propose doing that for the whole project instead. 04:57:28 lol 04:57:42 googlemozilla hope you got plenty of patience, because you'd get mauled day and night for weeks. 04:58:50 An LLC is a no good 04:59:03 We'd take legal advice from a brit! 04:59:11 Algorand does not support private transactions by default. Why do you think I'm here? 04:59:13 very known for their competence! 04:59:22 Just make a Marshall Islands company my good fellow 05:00:15 A top show way to organise your organisation 05:00:51 Why isn't it worth considering? I haven't heard any compelling arguments against creating a foundation, aside from the common criticism that it's 'centralized'. 05:01:29 yes top competence Brit here 05:01:58 How about this one? PoS, Foundation as well as private. Has survived Binance delisting. 05:01:59 https://sentz.foundation/ 05:02:37 Nested shells would be a good show 05:02:37 Like Sam bankman fried 05:02:42 I've done my research. Monero is the only option for now. 05:02:46 It would be hard to explain origin of funds for CCS 05:03:26 https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f990ezb.pdf 05:04:07 The Ethereum Foundation has sold hundreds of millions of worth of ETH that it initially allocated to itself. I fail to see the issue. 05:04:18 Oh dukenukem, it must be the competence that got me an actual productive conversation started 🎩 05:04:29 Oh, okay 05:04:35 What about random people donating a bunch of XMR to CCS? 05:04:52 XMR isn’t real 05:04:59 It’s just a number 05:05:19 Additionally, I would consider potential for future legislation. If there is a 501c3 in US that is associated with The Monero Project, there could be some consequences for the board 05:05:33 And if you’re really really good at math, you can have it all. 05:05:34 If the US decides to make Monero illegal 05:05:38 Or something of this sort 05:05:44 kewbit lol. 05:06:05 Hello again dukenukem 05:06:21 Make it a non-profit organization, and we'll be fine. 05:06:42 This is never going to happen. If it did, we'd have far more pressing concerns. 05:06:45 But then they wouldn’t be able to steal funds as easily 05:06:51 Of course 05:07:07 Yeah, but consider that the org may have to explain the origin of donations 05:07:42 I'm not trying to 'prove' you wrong, trying to understand better myself. I don't know either 05:08:57 I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure too. 05:09:46 Btw can we all just give dukenukem a round of applause for narrowing my identity down to 69,315,317 people 05:12:42 I didn't, your decentraliSation spellings did. 05:12:56 Only beans and toast eaters do that. Weirdos. 05:13:08 The odd colOUrs of decentraliSation. 05:14:11 This graphene profile is indeed set to UK darling 05:14:47 The British are much classier than you fat corn dog bastards. 05:15:01 Assumes I'm American lolio. 05:17:33 https://files.catbox.moe/qxrzh1.jpg 05:17:57 that's weird, 404. 05:18:21 https://www.crypto-news-flash.com/ethereum-foundation-sells-100-eth-again-to-support-key-projects 05:18:21 https://cointelegraph.com/news/the-ethereum-foundation-just-sold-30m-in-ether-but-will-eth-price-fall-this-time 05:18:23 https://decrypt.co/200680/the-ethereum-foundation-just-sold-2-76-million-in-eth 05:18:25 The liquidity of ETH is primarily sourced from unknown entities, and the foundation has allocated hundreds of millions of ETH to itself, which are then regularly sold and invested into various projects. CTFC has declared that ETH a commodity as well so it's reasonable to assume that a non-profit foundation would be an acceptable model for Monero. 05:19:44 https://0x0.st/X7l8.jpg 05:20:02 How is going from ETH -> DAI using a pool with unknown, potentially non-KYC users any different from receiving anonymous donations? I may be completely wrong, so we would obviously need to get legal advice on establishing such a foundation. This is just an idea for now. 05:20:09 You dirty IP sniffer, should be banned! 05:20:54 These links haha 05:21:24 That's called libel until you can prove it, which you can't. 05:21:25 We need a bot for link removal 05:21:31 Fucker. 05:21:48 I don't know the domain, must be a scam! 05:21:52 In Thailand you guilty until proven innocent 05:22:16 You performed the action 05:22:35 With intent to identify the most secretive people on the planet 05:23:04 In our very chambers 05:35:28 thanks for transferring monero-wallet back kewbit! 05:36:57 PS if you want serai rust code wrapped for dart i have examples in pub.dev/packages/monero and its accompanying crates.io/crates/monero-rust whose sole purpose is to provide a monero-wallet FFI layer for Dart at the moment 05:37:15 or if you want to use Dart < 3.6, use irondash/cargokit instead of irondash/native_toolchain_rust. 05:37:50 No worries, good thing I happened to need it 05:39:52 You're full of coincidences kewbit. 05:41:08 Have you provided preland with binaries to finally resolve the drama, or are you waiting for the new ChatGPT model to be released? 07:04:44 Yeah it’s because I’m an exit scammer 😜 07:07:00 bruh 07:07:26 nice way to expose your unculturedness 07:07:38 imagine not knowing catbox.moe 07:10:36 Hi again RetoSwap 07:11:00 Hi everyone! I’m new in these chat, I wish I’ll able to contribute soon as a dev 07:11:18 God help you 07:11:38 What is your expertise? 07:11:46 Good with C++, Rust, both, neither? 07:11:51 kewbit.org: kewbit u are the reason why I’m here 07:12:08 Why’s that? 07:12:17 Hi, that is great! Don't get scared away by this drama haha 07:13:04 Your pro-Monero propaganda worked 07:13:05 I won’t! Actually I’m a mid in full stack development.. still learning rust so pretty junior with those language 07:13:22 Great 07:13:29 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/489#note_27571 07:13:30 Full stack, like web apps? 07:14:23 Yes 07:14:55 If you are good with frontend please contribute there 07:15:15 Making things more user-friendly with better UX would be great 07:15:40 Since you're more higher-level I would not recommend getting into the cryptography and stuff 07:15:56 Im pretty good in the backend, but can still work for the front end if needed 07:16:31 Im not a designer, but still can code what is needed if a preview is provided 07:16:33 We're not talking crappy ExpressJS APIs here... 07:17:08 That fine, what are u talking about? 07:17:13 IMO contributing to UI/UX would be best 07:17:29 Have you checked Monero source code? 07:17:36 CryptoNote whitepaper? 07:18:14 oh you want to be a monero dev? name all 400k lines of code 07:18:15 :P 07:18:17 :P indeed 07:20:26 recanman: I think I’m gonna trust the audit for the monero code lol 07:21:07 I am saying that if you'd like to contribute to something in the 'backend' you will need to familiarize yourself with Monero's cryptography 07:21:11 How are you with PHP? 07:21:17 Seriously, I’m not that senior, my contribution for the moment will be limited by my experience 07:21:40 Oh thanks. I’m strong with laravel 07:21:45 Awesome 07:21:55 Okay, here's how you could help. I've been very busy with life and trying to finalize a CCS. Two things left: 07:21:55 1. Writing documentation 07:21:57 2. Writing a few more PHP functions 07:21:59 And rly like a mentor :) 07:22:05 Let's talk in DMs? 07:22:27 Really simple 2-3 PHP functions that make calls to C FFI 07:22:45 Of course! Gonna be a busy day probably won’t be able to be here a lot 07:23:01 But let’s talk about that :) 07:33:54 you can also do an ecosystem web app 07:40:56 hell yea @manwee14:matrix.org. check out https://github.com/monero-integrations/monerophp/pull/154 and see https://github.com/MrCyjaneK/monero_c/pull/70 for the PHP impl of monero_c 07:41:16 sorry i also have not been able to contribute to that, recanman. busy with other work as well :/ 07:41:50 All good, my excuse isn't that good anyways. I've been able to at times but just have forgotten about it 07:43:39 someday i'd also like to make a poc for rust to php as opposed to the monero_c/impls/monero.php example there 07:44:14 everything needed should go thru the c++ tho and i'm confident that monero_c will be maintained thru fcmps so it's ultimately unnecessary 07:44:50 however spirobel is doing cool things with very small bin size rust tools for web wallets and that might be good to eventually repurpose for use by things other than typescript. idk if that will be feasible, havent seen that work 08:43:02 A working buildable from source app will be released today but this is like working alpha pre-release 08:43:16 googlemozilla: Monero doesn't need an org on the premise anyone can make an org to support it. 08:43:19 Like really alpha, meaning no mainnet lol 08:43:32 There is a CCS alternative, the MAGIC Monero Fund, which is an American 501c3. 09:40:34 kewbit there are alot of in-progress ccs proposals - theres not enough bandwidth to make each of them the central topic of discussion for several hours every day on multiple platforms. stop teasing releases in here and making the situation worse for yourself 09:42:24 there are also around 9 ccs proposers who have completed their milestones in full and are patiently waiting for their payouts after posting their requests 09:43:44 bruh 09:47:22 <321bob321:monero.social> jesus 09:47:37 <321bob321:monero.social> luigi on island time ? 09:48:56 good morning chat 09:51:39