00:05:01 syntheticbird: i don't think it's specific enough 00:05:13 but i like it 00:06:40 same 00:08:54 i think it completely misses the issue, which was mods, not users 00:08:55 Mods who mod using their feelings, who need to be moderated and/or replaced 00:10:24 There are a lot of mods who are MIA for things that need to be modded, who would only appear when they wanted to mute/kick/ban people they dont get along with 00:10:44 The COC puts a leash and collar on users, does nothing about mods 00:11:32 And user behavior is a top-down thing. When you have shit people muting bridges because solely they dont like the topic, thats not a user issue 00:12:01 When you have shit people muting users who appeal bans of other people, same goes, not a user issue 00:12:55 When you have shit people enforcing their feelings and opinions, everything else follows. You cant expect a respectful environment when the ones in charge are shit people 00:13:55 You can expect rebellion and disrespect though. 00:14:28 syntheticbird: it might be worth adding a point about deliberately inflammatory language. some people can't seem to get a sentence out without sprinkling in a dozen adjectives that distract from any real attempts at discussion. 00:14:42 example: at the time that issue was made, there were 20s of users, some of them alts of mods, spamming this room trying to prevent my unban 00:16:01 i said shit person. Thats 1 adjective 00:16:03 And youre one of the shit mods 00:16:29 Muted the off-topic bridge and more 00:17:29 Not sure whay adjective youd like to identify as 00:17:31 Trash? 00:17:32 Useless? 00:17:42 Simply calling you a mod is a disrespect to real mods 00:20:04 Here we go again. 00:20:25 I'm going to need a popcorn sticker with the amount of drama per days 00:20:45 I'm going to need a popcorn sticker with the amount of "drama" per days 00:21:33 This is >1yr old nonsense 00:26:53 Like, much more than 1yr 00:27:46 For years monero's been infected with 🚮 leadership 00:28:08 Oh, okay. I'm missing context. 00:29:20 Luigi is still on his island somewhere. He's become complacent. 00:29:53 I'm sure there are others. 00:29:57 I'm not even referring to core here 00:31:36 Core team doesnt influence the project anymore, these chatrooms do 00:31:45 🤔 00:32:32 core are not mods 00:32:56 these chatrooms are the only reason the price goes up 00:33:07 lol 00:33:15 lol 00:33:20 I don't see why you're overreacting about the CoC. As long as you're being respectful, everything should be okay. You can still suggest changes to mods even with a CoC in place. 00:33:20 🍿🍿🍿 00:33:21 They dont lead anything. 00:34:26 Every major or professional project has a CoC. Why should Monero be an exception? 00:34:40 The coc is completely unnecessary 00:34:51 And again, i'm anything but reapectfuk 00:35:15 Diego told kewbit to shut the fuck up, syntheticn said some rude shit as well. 00:35:42 I dont respect shitbags and you shouldn't either 00:36:26 I don't think the CoC prohibits that behavior. The CoC explicitly states what it does prohibit, which includes trolling, spamming, harassment, doxxing, etc. but not swear words. 00:36:41 Just because some bad actors want to give other bad actors some official soft dealing doesnt mean monero should be so lenient 00:37:35 Cornfeed just told syn to add my adjectives 00:37:36 And cornfeed banned the entire offtopic bridge becsuse he didnt like people talking about covid 00:37:39 He also kicked juliu repeatedly 00:38:11 we are not professional 00:38:20 are we major? 00:38:29 shrug 00:38:41 Well, if that were to be added, I'd agree the CoC would be ridiculous. However, I think the CoC is acceptable as it stands. 00:38:51 Guys come on 00:38:56 idk maybe to drugs dealer 00:39:13 where are we going diego? 00:39:22 Mods need to be moderated. When plowsof ran this room, everybody was respectful. It wasnt until other mods started banning people and overruling plowsof did mods start being disrespected directly 00:39:23 s/banned/muted/ the bridge 00:39:25 Monero is reportedly worth $4 billion now. I think that's significant. 00:39:34 1 day without shit slinging please 00:40:16 :D lolol 00:40:17 No price talk #ban 00:40:21 does dog wif hat still have a latger MC than us 00:40:36 Not anymore. 00:40:42 those are professionals 00:41:18 Who are these mods exactly? 00:41:25 I don't get the context. 00:42:05 The temperature in this room is consistently high and it sucks. 00:42:25 From my perspective, there is a CoC pending in response to all the recent trolling, impersonation, and harassment that has been occurring lately. This will provide moderators with a clear direction on how to handle all that. 00:42:32 I have been in constant pain for 2 weeks, I can only read charts 00:42:33 Simple. 00:43:20 No 00:43:57 the coc predates my unban 00:43:58 And the issue the the coc references is about mods overstepping 00:46:25 Atm, functionally, at don't have a consistent coc that the mods use. Also nobody is currently banned or muted. 00:46:25 All slights, perceived or otherwise based on previous decisions have no grounds in the present. 00:46:37 We don't * 00:48:19 I realize everyone isn't happy for different reasons. Everyone thinks everyone else is a bad actor and doesn't deserve a place at the table. 00:49:27 Everyone has flimsy, circumstantial proof of everyone else's bad actorness 00:50:39 Can the peanut gallery please go do some work or otherwise be productive with your lives rather than bitching about each other for a while, please? 00:51:52 Peanut gallery. I like that. 00:54:45 The blunt truth is that a CoC was indeed adopted many years ago by the core team at the time. For code and community. The code for example has c4. It was never consistently enforced. 00:55:20 Anonimal (rightfully) pointed this out back in the day too. This isn't a new conversation. 00:55:45 This leads some mods to try to enforce it. With reason. Because it's there. Because officially its adopted. 00:56:14 But if it was inconsistently enforced back then, it is even more so now that we have 2.5 functional core team members 00:56:50 This has led the mod team floundering a bit. The people enforcing certain rules have "official written backing". 00:57:50 Scott is not at fault for reading the rules and making a ruling as an appointed mod. 00:58:23 Neither are the people wrong for pointing out how unjust it is for these rulings to be wielded non-uniformly, making things seem targeted. 00:59:26 For any of you feeling purposefully oppressed, or deliberately silenced, the honest truth is you're probably not important enough for that. The truth is much more mundane. Namely core haphazardly adopted a code of conduct for things back in the day that they never really made honest attempts to enforce. 01:00:50 When I see something I don’t like, I mute or move on 01:01:03 The cracks in core's laid back way of dealing with things has been evident over the past years. It's not perfect, and I'm not saying we should continue like this, but rest assured if things were more heavy handed there would be complaints too. 01:01:04 I just don’t care for spam and phishing 01:01:40 The fact that we lost -pools, such a long standing community gives me pause though that perhaps things have indeed been too laid back in regards to enforcement. 01:01:44 That's a really sad blow imo 01:03:08 ofrn was referring to this: https://web.archive.org/web/20240524142346/https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/457 01:03:09 Targeted attacks that you can't really mute or move on from. 01:04:17 Have you been mia for 2yrs? 01:05:24 Are you forgetting timeline?? Lmao 01:05:25 I was banned by ERC 01:05:30 ERC was fired promptly, even sgp agreed that erc was acting in bad faith 01:05:37 `As soon as ofrnxmr touched Monero, the price dropped significantly. If the market hates ofrnxmr, why should we accept this proposal?` 01:06:26 Inspiring. 01:06:33 When Dan (Is not the man & Braxman Tomsparks Advocate) Backup went to resolutions to ask for my unban in the rooms that erc banned me in, dan was promptly muted 01:06:38 I called scott a bitch for that, and scott banhammered me 01:06:48 I didn't say he banned you dude. 01:06:56 He made rulings regarding upholding things. 01:07:38 I'm also not saying I agree with Scott's every decision. 01:07:49 scott did ban me 01:08:04 <321bob321:monero.social> Wasnt me 01:08:25 <321bob321:monero.social> Siren and i are mute buddies 01:08:27 Then the timeline indeed is not something I'm the most up to date on. But it doesn't really matter or invalidate everything I've been saying. 01:08:37 Erc didnt banhammer me. And scott literally made up lies like claiming that i threatened peoples lives 01:08:56 which was in response to selsta asking for my unban in gui 01:09:31 Ruck invited me to beef, and scott banned me from beef. Ruck unbanned me and scott rebanned, so ruck left the room altogether. 01:09:49 The tweet he was talking about that said "it's on sight" was indeed not you. 01:10:01 That doesn't change the fact that none of the above matters. 01:10:26 Because as I said, as a mod he had a right to make rulings. And the unban and reban is a result of the inconsistency for the reasons I described above. 01:10:51 Youre saying scott was upholding something, thats nonsense. He was just being a bitch, mad that he couldnt do it to rotten anymore 01:11:02 I'm clarifying the situation as to why things happened as they did. 01:11:05 This is your assertion. 01:11:07 No, the unban and reban was scott being a bitch 01:11:23 This is your assertion. 01:11:25 Scott banned because he wanted to be a bitch and mute people in resolutions 01:11:33 sigh. it's exhausting how incendiary your language is. this channel's temperature could be so much lower without it. 01:11:45 and could still discuss the same exact stuff 01:11:48 I wonder how all of this will look on IRC. It must be a nightmare. 01:12:00 I disagreed with Scott's decision and unbanned. I also disagree with your assertion. 01:12:19 <321bob321:monero.social> Why we talking about banning? 01:12:39 No, thats literally a fact 01:12:43 Dan asked scott to reverse erc's bam, and scott mutes him and told him to tell me to request screenshots from jwinterm if i need to get work done 01:12:52 cornfeedhobo You're overreacting. Ironically, pointing this out raises the temperature in this channel. Just let Diego handle it. 01:13:10 Erc had stepped down as mod and sgp and luigi knew that erc was acting in bad faith 01:14:07 Scott didnt uphold anything, he literally muted someone for respectfully requesting that my ban be reversed 01:14:18 I think erc was acting alongside his values. Unfortunately I don't think his values were very compatible with this community. 01:14:40 It is possible for someone to act in line with their values, which differ from yours, and not be acting in bad faith. 01:14:42 no 01:15:27 Erc banned me for saying "erc broke the room" 01:15:31 He came to my dm and said "ive banmed you in every room that i admin" and left 01:16:18 Luigi promptly unbanned me on irc and erc stepped down and left the rooms on matrix 01:16:19 Then dan asked in resolutions for another mod to unban me in -site and -translation (rooms erc banned me), and dan was muted 01:16:28 This may indeed be the straw that broke the camels back, but does not mean there were not other reasons. 01:16:42 Fwiw I also disagree with erc if this was his final reason for banning 01:16:57 🍿 01:17:13 The primary issue here is immediately leaping to "bad faith" for reasons why things are done. 01:17:29 From many many in this community. 01:17:31 I used to watch springer now I watch this 01:17:48 non stop 🎆 01:17:50 It was 01:17:51 ccs was down. Ccs restarted. i wrote the merge list and sent to luigi 01:18:28 Then you're preaching to the choir in this regard. I agree with you here. 01:18:30 Erciccione was on merge list, incl backpay 01:18:32 Erc decided he wanted to be angry about me writing the list and closed his ccs 01:18:34 Every other ccs was funded almost instantly 01:18:43 And once again the fact that you're unbanned means I agree with you in general about how this was handled. 01:19:17 But no, Scott remaining on the mod team is not a threat to the monero community at large, and I'm not in a hurry to ask him to resign. 01:19:18 Erc got mad and started disrespecting plowsof and luigi. I was busy fixing matrix rooms (just finished fixing haveno room with pigeons). I pointed out that it wss broken because erc downed the homeserver, and that otherrooms are the same 01:19:25 If you think this makes me naive then so be it. 01:19:31 cornfeedhobo just take a glance at the beautiful stuff he was sending to xmrscott via PM, that he himself posted on X, on his profile. 😂👌 https://nitter.poast.org/pic/orig/media%2FGKIwiiYWwAA5GIM.jpg 01:19:43 And then erc banned me 01:19:48 Source: https://nitter.poast.org/ofrnxmr/status/1775034577196560643 01:20:27 Ok, well my 7 months ban was because dan asked for the erc ban to be reversed on matrix. Plowsof didn't have ops in site or tl 01:20:59 There's more. 😂 https://nitter.poast.org/ofrnxmr/status/1774085262450004335 01:21:39 This was after my ban, and *shocker* i sent it to him and he never read it, so i posted it publicly 01:21:46 Fwiw, ofrnxmr @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx i realize you probably stand by all your words here since you're not one to back down, but things like this definitely make me roll my eyes when you triple down on your behavior being justified. 01:22:36 It's not threatening of life but it is just on the "right" side of subtle of violence). 01:22:37 I'm not justifying post-ban behavior. It is what it is 01:23:00 Not only that, but Diego and Core has knowledge of him trying to use sock puppets to delete my Matrix account 🤣 01:23:01 If you're being attacked by hundreds of sockpuppets, banned from all channels (including joke ones like off-topic and beef), and having all your CCS requests rejected for no valid reason, I can understand why ofrn acted like this... 01:23:37 It doesn't justify it, though. I can see where he came from. 01:23:49 Diego, is this true? 01:23:51 I assert you were being a bitch to Scott being a bitch. Let he who has not bitched cast the first stone. 01:24:32 Because anybody with half a brain would know that ive never used any socks 01:24:33 This isnt simply a baseless allegation, its absolutely hilarious 01:24:41 God, all parties making me reveal all my cards all at once. 01:24:46 rottenwheel If I'm missing any context, please let me know. I obtained my information from ofrn himself. 01:25:04 🤣🤣🤣🤣 01:25:26 Go easy on me. I'm new... 01:25:45 googlemozilla: not justify it is key here. they can behave that way somewhere else. it certainly shouldn't be the behavior of someone that accepts money from the community or could be seen as a community representative 01:25:49 Everyone accuses everyone of socks and always has circumstantial evidence of proof. 01:25:49 Please do sir 01:25:50 I have NEVER used a sock 01:26:21 I take great offense to you even thinking i have, and worse, to "authority" figures claiming that i did 01:26:23 Explains why you got it all wrong. Going to pm with ofrn is like letting yourself into the most manipulative, megalomaniac, twisted individual I ever had the disgraceful chance of talking to, ever in my life. Note that I used ever, twice. 01:26:35 Don't you look at the shit he types on pm with Scott? 01:26:54 I stand on principle. I'm not a pussy 01:27:00 He deliberately twists stuff to his own benefit and in the process, he sprinkles slurs left and right. It is unhinged. 01:27:03 My card in this instance which may be upsetting to both sides here is that I don't think the circumstantial evidence that both sides have provided here is damning enough to take definitive action. 01:27:22 He sent me screenshots and archive links to support his claims. Please forgive me if I chose to believe them. 01:27:24 I dont upvote myself or do cowardly bullshit. I would never use a sock 01:27:36 Anything i have to say, i say from my own mouth 01:27:48 I don't need to forgive anything, just laugh at how effective his manipulatively unhinged antics are. 01:28:18 I couldn't care less what happens to the dude. He's blocked everywhere and will stay blocked till the end of days, that's guaranteed. 01:28:59 I don't get it. I wish there was a SyntheticBird-style blog about this :) 01:29:11 But since things seem to be coming to a head here, perhaps the can can't be kicked down the road much longer indeed. 01:29:18 Its the coc 01:29:39 Replies? I haven't read them. 01:29:41 Both ofrn has sent me accusations and evidence over PM of Scott using socks, and vice versa. 01:30:08 Ill take some time to actually dig further. 01:30:40 I don't appreciate it being "known" that i used socks 01:30:41 Ive literally NEVER in my mufakkn life 01:30:48 Thats some weak shit. diego, you spoke to me privatelt and knew how i was living 01:30:58 According to ofrn, plowsof obtained IP addresses and emails of all the sock puppets. Surely, this could easily expose who it was? 01:31:33 I literally said I didn't give credence to either accusation. That's not weak shit. It's giving both sides the benefit of the doubt. 01:31:36 I wasnt even active in the damn chatrooms. Was dealing with my own real life grass 01:32:02 Don't twist my words. I didn't say I believed him and didn't tell you, you doofus. 01:32:43 its _obvious_ that someone created _multiple_ sock puppets and claimed to do so to defend scott and sgp 01:32:45 _he_ said you did 01:33:14 Yes, most were yasabi 01:33:33 HE said we have evidence (that he gave us) of sock shenanigans. 01:33:48 People are allowed to submit evidence. You have also submitted evidence to me of the contrary. 01:33:52