12:48:29 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> monerobull, dEBRUYNE_1, plowsof, I agree with Monero-Master, rule 11 should be deleted. Rule 4 and 5 already cover the point.
12:49:42 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> We're not r/atheism, pointing finger at a specific group, being a majority or minority is *not very smart* imo
12:52:20 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> At best the rule should be reworded
12:53:16 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> But as is: *Religion related posts are off-topic* is inappropriate.
12:54:48 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> This is also in contradiction with the general moderation habits. We let political posts such as *Will XMR go moon with Trump*, are we going to ban *Churchs decided to accept XMR* ? According to rule 11 it will.
13:02:26 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Look, I know we're on reddit, and majority of vocal people are anti-theist (and according to them just to be haters), but there is a reason the most appreciated subreddit is r/NonPoliticalTwitter. Not saying we should ban politic, but if we allow it, let's make the rule right so that no one is excluded.
13:09:23 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> actually "Will XMR go moon with Trump" should be removed...
13:09:51 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> religion has very little to do with monero
13:17:07 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Of course but I gave you an example of both on topic of monero and related to religion.
13:17:22 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Shouldn't be banned imo
13:17:37 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> but "Will XMR go moon with Trump" is not an example of what should be allowed
13:18:19 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Nah I'm talking about *Church accept XMR*. A post like that shouldn't be banned
13:18:34 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> It's not pushing religion agenda its about adoption
13:21:44 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> If i take an opposite just to be sure about consistency: Would you ban a *LGBT communities are making heavy use of XMR* post?
13:22:01 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> its not#
13:22:02 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> its not
13:22:12 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> that is not a religion post
13:22:29 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Ah alright
13:22:35 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> no and we had posts about how people buy HRT with it
13:23:11 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> X accepts Monero is not the same thing as a post about X
13:23:12 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no we should ban or no we shouldn't ban
13:23:29 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yeah OK not ban got it
13:23:41 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> no, we of course shouldnt ban posts about people adopting monero
13:25:57 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I get the stance. Still think rule 4 already covera it. We're pointing finger at a group despite overlapping an existing rule. At best should be reworded because *related* imply weak link and adoption is always related to something
13:30:45 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Instead of banning religion related, just ban **Proselytism**
13:31:03 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> That was the main word of what the Church of Monero was doing
13:31:42 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> And what shouldn't be allowed on r/monero
13:41:00 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> And what shouldn't be allowed on r/monero. This address the  problematic concept instead of a group you think is practicing it
13:52:06 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> but we dont want religion
13:52:26 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> this is electronic shizo internet technology coin
13:52:48 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> there is legit no connection to religion here
13:53:04 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> "X starts accepting Monero donations" is as far as it can go
14:11:47 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> OK then why are you not writing  LGBTQ activism is prohibited. 
14:11:47 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> This is electronic schizo internet technology coin.
14:11:49 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> There is legit no connection to LGBTQ here
14:11:51 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Can you get what I mean. It's not the stance that is a problem, its the way it's put. All these rules are read as "Be on topic with Monero, and we particularly don't tolerate religion". While you could just say "We don't tolerate offtopic, be on topic with Monero"
14:12:45 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Literally X Y problem
14:13:57 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> (I'm one phone btw sorry for typos and delays)
14:14:34 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> because we never had any issues with lgbtq activism?
14:14:38 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> i didnt make the rules
14:15:09 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> but someone coming and complaining specifically about one rule makes it seem they want to preach their believes or whatever
14:18:45 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> let me illustrate my position
14:18:51 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> california has an old law
14:18:52 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> California's Fish and Game Code, Article 2, Frog-Jumping Contests (6880-6885), states that any number of live frogs are allowed to be used in frog-jumping contests.
14:18:53 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> Should one of the poor creatures pass on or be killed during the competition, however, "it must be destroyed as soon as possible, and may not be eaten or otherwise used for any purpose," the law says.
14:18:59 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> ```
14:18:59 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> California's Fish and Game Code, Article 2, Frog-Jumping Contests (6880-6885), states that any number of live frogs are allowed to be used in frog-jumping contests.
14:19:01 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> Should one of the poor creatures pass on or be killed during the competition, however, "it must be destroyed as soon as possible, and may not be eaten or otherwise used for any purpose," the law says.
14:19:03 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> ```
14:19:18 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Still you had issues with one group of people and portrayed their behavior on an entire set of communities. 
14:19:19 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Culture war mindset ngl. Criticism can be genuine and being against something isn't about endorsing the oppoosite
14:19:48 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> if i now come in and say "boo hoo that is so outdated, this was only instated because of jerry the excessive frog eater always eating so many frogs he puked"
14:19:57 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> it KINDA makes it look like i want to eat frogs
14:20:35 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> OK well then ig plowsof and debruyne inputs are needed (if they want to ofc)
14:22:13 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Oh shit I think I deleted my message
14:22:28 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> See irc side
14:24:45 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> What the fucj
14:24:54 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Messages are scrambled af
14:26:10 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'll be back on PC
15:27:12 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Thx matrix this message didn't appears on my phone. I agree it make sense to only address a rule when an issue arise. But the rule is still wrong regardless, you don't have an issue with religion really but with proselytism and that are different things. Saying, because X was Y and caused Z then we will ban Y to avoid Z is stupid.
15:27:40 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> X do not represent Y, Z could happen by some people external to Y
15:29:28 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> no i actually do have an issue with religion
15:29:37 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> i dont need someone to preach or make monero about religion because it isnt
15:32:04 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> alright I was intentionally trying to stay objective. Thanks for confirming you don't wanna be a neutral mod and have no issue pushing your opinion exactly like the few one you have an issue with.
15:32:31 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> blah blah we dont need fucking religion posts on r/monero are you being for real right now?
15:32:34 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ffs is it so hard to have an opinion and stay neutral?
15:32:51 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Since when did I said this?
15:33:22 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> dont act like
15:33:25 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Rule 4 cover this
15:33:27 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> >Thanks for confirming you don't wanna be a neutral mod and have no issue pushing your opinion exactly like the few one you have an issue with.
15:33:29 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> doesnt imply it
15:33:54 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes doesn't imply it
15:34:31 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i don't wanna go over deaf debate, i've my opinion you have yours. I won't continue a discussion based on suggestions and guesses.
15:34:44 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i don't wanna go over deaf debate, i've my opinion you have yours. I won't continue a discussion based on guesses.
15:35:31 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> what
15:35:40 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> there is no discussion
15:35:47 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> i didnt make the rule but its a decent rule
15:36:50 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> there is no way any religion has any direct influence over monero and besides starting to accept it for donations, there is VERY little any religion would have to report on the topic
15:37:04 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> it is inherently off-topic and unrelated to monero
15:37:31 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:monero.social> you dont see people making religious posts about the https protocol
15:41:22 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no shit, of course it's unrelated to monero. Rule 4 cover this already. why would you keep an overlapping rule, that is inherently pointing towards a specific group, with the sole reason that you had issues with some guys mimicking them. I don't call that objective moderation.
15:41:49 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> That's the whole point, that's the X Y problem. And you don't want to acknowledge it because you think Y still have no place
15:42:09 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I don't have the pretention to imagine all the scenarios in which someone could be on topic with monero and be related to religion
15:42:36 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rule 4 is the goat
15:42:46 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> also useless to say it's not very welcoming to our fellow religious users, that they may try to post about religion or not.
15:42:48 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Do we have any other rules?
15:42:55 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 10 others sir
15:42:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ive heard about rule 4s for months now
15:43:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Im referring to ccs as well. Rule 4 was what qtip kept breaking
15:43:40 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I never hear about the other rules
15:43:42 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> haha forgot about that one
15:43:49 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Can you post the reddit rules
15:43:51 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> oh shit i forgot to reset my name
15:44:12 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Where's the religion post?
15:44:18 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 1
15:44:19 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Breaking the guidelines may result in a deleted post and possible ban.
15:44:21 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 2
15:44:24 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Discussion of using Monero to break the law is disallowed.
15:44:25 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 3
15:44:27 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Follow redditquette and the rules of reddit.
15:44:29 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 4
15:44:31 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Only Monero-related topics/links, and no referral links.
15:44:33 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 5
15:44:35 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> No memes/image macros or low-effort/AI-generated content.
15:44:37 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 6
15:44:39 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1hfp62t/lets_discuss_rule_11/
15:45:10 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> is there a monero-meme subreddit?
15:45:17 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes
15:46:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ok
15:46:28 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rule 5 should direct there , like rule 9
15:46:52 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rule 9 and 10 having mismatched syntax its annoying me
15:47:18 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> r/monerosupport and /r/xmrtrader (the leading `/`)
15:48:51 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Tbh they should go create their own subreddit
15:49:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rule 11 can be rolled into rule 4, with rule 4 s/related/focused 
15:49:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> no referral links sounds like it should be its own rule
15:52:17 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Don't need extra rules for religion. It should fall under "offtopic"
15:52:34 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thx you very much ofrnxmr
15:52:48 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> and also I agree with the other proposition
16:21:42 <m-relay> <p​reland:monero.social> This; explicitly calling out religion is a recipe for poor decisions because it implies that the issue isn’t about off-topic content, but rather that religion is directly “banned” in the subreddit, which isn’t accurate or in line with what the subreddit should be.
16:26:37 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> we should just ban certain religions instead
16:35:54 <m-relay> <m​alori:xavi.lu> just ban everyone from talking but our lord luigi
16:46:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "let there be silence"
17:28:08 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> I’m doing a survey to check the sentiment in the Monero community of establishing a hackerspace https://monero.town/post/5258178
17:37:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> no tor users allowed 2 vote. Nice
17:37:10 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> ajs_: getting a certificate error when visiting https://hackerspace.btcps.org/ from hyperlink on Lemmy, FYI. https://hackerspace.btcps.org/
17:37:30 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/unredacted.org/HjpwpUAEPqVIZrIbmhJYRTlX
17:41:45 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> Linking cryptpad is buggy
17:42:19 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> Full link is: https://cryptpad.disroot.org/form/#/2/form/view/k+F96VAcT8cSCpJ8nq2Sq8kVK67M7N7EWRw2sY+Qvok/embed/
17:51:47 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> rottenwheel:  try link again
17:52:03 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> On Monero town
17:52:42 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Ya, that works now. s.42l.fr one.
17:52:45 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> 👍️
18:00:13 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> rottenwheel:  could you share survey link on Reddit
18:14:47 <geonic> 3 articles featuring anhdres as part of Monerotopia PR:
18:15:00 <geonic> https://www.altonivel.com.mx/que-es-monero-la-criptomoneda-que-funciona-como-el-dinero-en-efectivo/
18:15:16 <geonic> https://www.milenio.com/negocios/repuntan-exchanges-millones-usuarios-plataformas-monero
18:15:31 <geonic> https://www.eleconomista.com.mx/tecnologia/monero-busca-criptomoneda-resiste-censura-20241214-738313.html
18:17:46 <m-relay> <c​t:xmr.mx> Its worth mentioning that this proposed hackerspace is a standalone thing, and notably not part of Twisted Edwards, the legal entity that runs Monerokon
18:19:18 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> > Durante la reciente conferencia virtual “MoneroTopía” en la Ciudad de México, Andrés Fernández Cordón, especialista en posicionamiento de Monerujo, el monedero nativo de Monero en Android, y experto en blockchain, exploró el potencial de esta criptomoneda que promete revolucionar el ecosistema monetario.
18:19:19 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Conferencia virtual... en la ciudad de México. 🤔
18:19:29 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> [@anhdres:matrix.org](https://matrix.to/#/@anhdres:matrix.org) experto en blockchain!
18:19:48 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Will do in a few moments, aye. Ping you when live in subreddit!
18:20:58 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> > “Al igual que un billete en tu mano, nadie puede rastrear cómo ha sido usado antes ni hacia dónde va”, agregó el experto.
18:20:59 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> The expert strikes again!
18:22:30 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> ceetee.mx:  added note to survey to make this clear
18:26:40 <m-relay> <c​t:xmr.mx> Instead of submitting the form I'd rather discuss it here: What is the difference between a regular hackerspace and a monero hackerspace? The activities listed are primarily digital, and need neither much space or equipment.
18:27:19 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> walls are painted orange in monero hackerspace
18:28:48 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Ono walls, opensource
18:28:55 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> No*
18:34:02 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> RandomX mining heaters, DIY Monero ATM, radio mesh network for broadcasting txs, Monero hardware wallet… I think that was one MK presentation years ago about Monero mining drones
18:36:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Let plowsof do the welding
18:36:31 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I'd pay to see that plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org
18:36:41 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> Open source hardware in general
18:37:42 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Open source welder and hand tools LFG
18:38:19 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> How many ppl in this room know how to weld. Put your hands up
18:39:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We getting the welder from temu?
18:40:33 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> where are we putting the woodshop? Doing renovations?
18:43:19 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Need it for monero island
18:44:34 <m-relay> <c​t:xmr.mx> The thing that makes hackerspace appealing to me is access to expensive and bulky machines. Basicly anything CNC controller, whether its milling, turning, plasma, laser or water jet cutting is high up on the list. Soldering and measurement equipment is cheap enough to have my own, and considering how co workers treat some of our shit I for sure dont want to share it with random people
18:45:41 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Sounds like a co opt
18:46:21 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Unless its a shared space
18:46:27 <m-relay> <c​t:xmr.mx> I mean to say: large complex machines might be out of reach even for a hackerspace, especially if its not peoples daily buisiness - and all the small stuff is not worth signing up a membership for
18:46:35 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Like openplan office
18:54:04 <m-relay> <c​t:xmr.mx> I dont intend to be mean here, but I think you deserve honest feedback
19:06:34 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Coc violation ^
19:12:33 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> ceetee.mx:  thanks. Putting this out there for feedback and being honest helps
19:13:25 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> The space would be multifunctional, so not only for building, but also a place for coding and learning in workshops
19:14:20 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> MoneroKon and MoneroTopia are for weekend long content
19:15:34 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> I think it would be to have long form content that last a few weeks… a kind of summer school, a Monero boot camp for aspiring developers
19:15:54 <m-relay> <a​js_:matrix.org> I think it would be cool to have long form content that last a few weeks… a kind of summer school, a Monero boot camp for aspiring developers
19:21:27 <m-relay> <a​nhdres:matrix.org> Mommy I made it! I have my first article with someone calling me a Blockchain expert. Very 2017. Blockchain blockchain
19:25:05 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Monero blockchain community leader
19:56:09 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> ajs_: done. https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1hgj8xb/monero_hackerspace_survey_yea_or_nay/
19:56:09 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> redlib: https://redlib.zaggy.nl/r/Monero/comments/1hgj8xb/monero_hackerspace_survey_yea_or_nay/
20:45:23 <geonic> <r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Conferencia virtual... en la ciudad de México. 🤔 <== Mexican journalism at its best
20:51:38 <geonic> anhdres: your grandma uses monero? :D 
20:52:29 <m-relay> <a​nhdres:matrix.org> I read in the news that she does.
20:52:48 <m-relay> <a​nhdres:matrix.org> I cannot tell what the old lady does since Monero is so private
20:54:30 <geonic> that El Economista article is pretty dope
20:54:46 <m-relay> <a​nhdres:matrix.org> yeah that's by far the best one
20:54:49 <geonic> https://x.com/eleconomista
20:54:54 <geonic> legit publication
20:55:00 <geonic> good job sir
20:56:18 <m-relay> <a​nhdres:matrix.org> here's the tweet: https://x.com/eleconomista/status/1868697598816878603
21:06:21 <geonic> In a statement, Monero projected that by 2028, an estimated 992.5 million people will be using cryptocurrencies.
21:06:41 <geonic> lol that milenio article is pure trash
22:00:09 <nioCat> <a​js_:matrix.org> I think that was one MK presentation years ago about Monero mining drones <<>> yes 2019, a scam by a scammer, or just something unrealistic so that they had something more to present  :D
22:00:49 <nioCat> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> How many ppl in this room know how to weld. Put your hands up <<>> o/
22:59:54 <midipoet> There are always a few bonkers presentations at MK. 
23:00:13 <midipoet> The drones one was a bit out there, though, for sure. 
23:01:00 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Wes inclusive sir