00:57:23 if you dont care the transaction history you can restore from your oldest UTXO 02:01:18 If fast-syncs from 0 02:01:35 Grabs the hashed from genesis, but doesnt actually sync from 0 02:02:24 If it was actually syncing from 0, its due to a corrupt wallet 02:03:49 Cli does the same thing. Restore a wallet, enter restore height on 3mill, and it pulls hashed from 0. hashed -> restore height takes a minute or 2 depending on your internet speed 02:03:50 id you set restore height to 0, it actually syncs from 0. Which takes hours 04:28:13 syntheticbird: sorry I just realized my node is offline. I need to sync some amount of data before I can send. Or use a dreaded remote node I guess 08:59:14 luigi111 all fine 09:01:43 luigi1111 all fine 13:25:55 plowsof have you tried restoring a wallet using 9936 13:32:44 trying to get some reliable full syncs with master to put on a graph to compare 9936 later, r4v3r23 from 0 to 3050000 i've tried , will do full soon 13:33:52 if it massively improves wallet restore over tor will add it to anonero v1.0 asap 13:34:15 the craptop on wifi was 2x quicker from 0 to 3mill 13:34:28 im just trying to confirm on dedicated server 13:34:31 but what about syncing actual txs 13:34:49 Exciting 13:35:08 like from actual restore height > current tup 13:35:11 like from actual restore height > current tip 13:36:01 the performance boost on on OK dedicated server seems less, just trying to confirm - so many variables for a full sync 13:37:52 also why hasnt 573 been merged 13:37:56 thought it was settled 13:42:33 Use an onion rpc 13:43:26 so you can bottleneck the download 13:43:51 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/MfRQbmshHliCeWSbTGkPKMis 13:44:32 i want to finish something like this sync height over time... the speed up will be more noticable on tor (is this why my craptop and wifi seen 2x quicker sync?) 13:45:31 I LOVE CHARTS 13:47:36 Might have diminishing returns if the network speed is _too_ slow. Probably best balance is when sync time = download time 13:47:50 so that just clearnet on a dedicated server with/without showing a ~16 min improvement on 1 attempt 13:48:59 because of https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/9875 you can query the wallets height xD 13:51:27 If download time < sync time, then it downloads fast and difference should be minimal 13:51:28 if download time = sync time, then it should keep downloading while syncing, which should have next batch of blocks ready when previous batch finishes syncing 13:51:30 If download time > sync time, the difference will be noticable, but still some lag between sync finish and following batch ready to sync 13:51:46 This is my understanding 13:52:29 ill get 1 sync on tor with/without asap 13:52:42 Probably 13:52:44 clearnet 13:52:46 tor 13:52:48 onion 13:55:41 after deleting the wallet cache, and opening with wallet rpc on master branch, it syncs the wallet from 3mill just because.. need to sanity check that 13:58:03 Did you create the wallet at height 3mill? 13:58:52 Might need to restore from seed with lower height 13:58:54 or maybe can change it with wallet-cli `set` 14:05:52 will try, meeting in 1hr55mins i think https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1209 14:09:16 ? 14:10:16 did it have a merge conflict 14:10:43 I saw 'uigi merged the other one 14:14:30 that was my own deadline 14:14:43 573 is "the list" deadline 14:14:49 no merge conficts 14:15:11 looking forward to anonero updates 💪 14:18:44 testing airgapped txs now 14:19:02 monero.social is dying again it seems 14:21:10 anonero is being developed? 14:21:23 anonero is production ready afiak 14:24:51 rewritten from scratch 14:25:19 v1.0 is ready for daily use, only airgap and coin control remain 14:26:06 old apks will stay online until those last features are in 15:42:15 I thought our meeting would be now? I'm still waiting for it to begin, or did I get the time wrong? 15:43:25 Or netsplit or only on Matrix or some other problem, oh je. 15:43:34 I think in 17 minutes but I will miss it 15:43:43 1600 UTC 15:44:08 Thanks nioc, you are correct. I was calculating the time wrongly. 15:44:22 Why will you miss the meeting, good weather in your area? 15:45:33 prior commitments, on my out now 15:46:26 @xmr 15:47:39 Oops wrong place to use xmr bot 15:52:29 👍️ 15:53:35 monero.social will die during meeting 15:54:11 good bot 16:00:34 meeting time 16:00:52 greetings https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1209 16:00:59 Hello. 16:00:59 hi 16:01:09 hola 16:02:36 (didn’t know there was a meeting happening but felt rude not to respond :)) 16:03:35 the bridge is severely delayed and broken, thank you for confirming geonic and saying hello 16:03:51 syntheticbird was correct 16:04:36 theres been a delay in the FCMP++ testnet launch , prev MRL meeting discussed this https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1208 16:04:39 i launched a testnet but it broke. Will relaunch when fixed 16:04:41 s/broke/exploded 16:04:44 (bridge gone) weeee 16:04:48 maybe monero.social gone 16:05:00 Test 16:04 16:05:16 hello again world 16:05:32 works 16:05:38 damn irc -> matrix is slow af 16:05:45 <0​xfffc:monero.social> For me it is gone. 16:05:55 nvm both sides are slow af 16:06:03 <0​xfffc:monero.social> ( But came back it seems ) 16:06:10 work here 16:06:24 rav you are on xmr.mx thats why 16:06:48 supportxmr.com hashes pumping https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero 16:07:13 0xfffc @0xfffc:monero.social opened pr to fix our inefficient tx relaying. Should save upwards of 90% bandwidth on well connected nodes 16:07:15 link 16:07:23 "https://nano.p2pool.observer/ mined a 5th block" shared by via extra_evil_6666 in #p2pool-log:libera.chat 16:07:56 Support has almost 50% 👀 16:07:58 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/9933 16:08:00 Well, closer to 40 16:08:34 I wonder why they left p2pool 16:16:14 plowsof, next time meeting should be done on minecraft 16:16:21 their chat system is more reliable 16:17:23 didn't realize that we're probably missing messages 16:17:44 yes things are slow 16:18:13 ping whoever is responsible i forgor who that is 16:18:56 Maybe the p2pool HR was supportxmr testing MM tari all along? 16:19:03 https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/releases v4.6 with merge mining donation support 16:19:08 all this shifting of hashes to various pools.. p2pool rising and falling 🤷 16:19:19 slave_blocker shared this https://github.com/slave-blocker/frontend-monero-pool , maybe gingeropolous could find use in it 16:19:22 pigeons but im not sure what the problem is 16:19:29 public rpc nodes will be thankful having a 90% bandwidth reduction (eco friendly ++) 16:19:31 https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/ 👀 16:19:40 P2p* 16:19:44 the entire network as a whole 16:19:45 yeah. The extra tax on bandwidth should free up a lot of resources and lower latency 16:20:41 federation between homeservers is slow , anything else to touch on 16:21:00 You mean then meeting is almost over? 16:21:32 I think the requests made to the Haveno Cross Platform App last week have been met 16:21:35 just the delayed start is over 16:21:37 a. [Haveno App (Cross Platform)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570) 16:21:53 s/week/meeting 16:27:49 monero.social is having a serious issue right now. 16:40:21 interesting meeting 16:40:46 Specifically, more up votes 16:40:58 not sure who kriptiik krip, PyXMR, Yijia Zhang are 16:41:11 Pyxmr and zhang are 1 person aka Jackie* not sure who ktiptiik krip is 16:41:13 rbrunner and syntheticbird 👍️ 16:41:15 related: "apparently there is a working android app ready for review: https://github.com/nobbydoo80/haveno-android-build" << another slop app 16:41:21 can ignore that one 16:41:24 https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app is the only open source serious contender it seems 16:41:29 Saw something about MAUI a week ago. Don’t know how true it is 16:41:30 https://youtu.be/93pxUFZgS9g 16:41:50 people still maintain COBOL code 😄 16:41:57 Mainframes are built to last decades. Phones aren’t 16:42:00 An app written 3 years ago often wont compile now 16:42:09 atsamd21: are you aware of the MAUI situation linked above? 16:42:14 MAUI is fine, maybe not as big as other frameworks but they're not going to stop supporting it any time soon 16:42:18 but a random youtube comment said "nooooooooo" are you certain! 16:42:21 I think it’s a valid concern, as most have probably never heard of it before 2 months ago. It’s not clear how dedicated MSFT is to it 16:42:25 Flutter has been going strong since 2016, although created around 2014 or 2011 I think 16:42:31 Google has a vested interest in Flutter succeeding in order to lure away iOS developers 16:42:40 It also happens to be open source. Don’t know about MAUI 16:42:42 MAUI is open source 16:42:45 https://github.com/dotnet/maui 16:42:50 Cake / Monero.com, Stack Wallet, both flutter 16:43:03 Actually has real world usage - https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/top-apps-built-with-flutter-framework/ 16:44:06 atsamd21 do you have a time estimate of completing your project? have you received enough monetary support to continue? 16:44:12 I hate Flutter with a passion. I welcome any competition, even one using something as disgusting as C#. 16:46:18 and monero.social is dead again 16:49:35 I'm thinking like another month or so until completed 16:49:40 It’s not Apples to Apples as the same platforms are not expected. 16:49:42 I'm planning to support other platforms as well but want to get android stable first 16:50:00 It’d be nice to make sure that’s possible. Again, I don’t think anyone has ever seen MAUI do these things before 16:50:16 and aremor has completed milestones 1 , 2 , and 3 so far? but not yet open source. 16:50:27 atsamd21 looks to be about to claim https://bounties.monero.social/posts/126/37-175m-building-an-open-source-android-app-for-haveno-dex (as his work is open source) 16:52:16 Yeah, demoed to Tuxsudo last week 16:53:17 milestones 1+2+3 where done in approx 2 months iirc? 16:53:52 approximately 16:54:53 what would the hrly xmr rate be .. seems comparable / more than the upper rust echelon of the ccs 17:03:34 Has our meeting concluded or is this another bridge problem with massive delay? I'm not reading any more text communication on IRC. 17:04:12 Today is a strange day. I'll assume the meeting is over, so thank you very much for a good meeting and thanks especially to plowsof for the good moderation. 17:05:29 msvb-lab thanks for attending, the bridge is delayed 17:07:53 good day all 17:12:42 [CCS Proposals] plowsoff closed merge request #570: Haveno App (Cross Platform) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570 17:23:21 In the next few weeks I will probably open a new research CCS. If the community wants to suggest protocol-level research questions that can be investigated using the tools of statistics and/or economics, please do. I will probably continue to work on techniques to prevent anti-privacy adversaries from linking transactions and users' IP addresses (i.e. network-level privacy), at least. 17:39:17 (when bridge returns, we can make sure this gets to matrix side Rucknium, thanks for sharing) 18:18:02 for purposes of rule 4, idea = funding = wip = completed 18:18:02 All work must be licensed permissively at all stages of the proposal. There is no time where your work can be licensed under a restrictive license (even as you're working on it). Your proposal will be terminated if this is not remedied. 18:18:07 We explicitly had this conversation in December when deciding whether to end that CCS or not. It was stated that the problem was that binaries were released. That is what broke the rule. 18:18:11 As soon as binaries were released, it means the app was released, but no code provided. 18:18:17 Warm greetings, peeps! ✨ 18:18:24 Am I mistaken? 18:18:31 2 months to complete milestones totalling 275xmr which is currently 94655.84 eur. im not certain if donors would be willing to allocate such funding to a haveno app while the 2 proposals in funding are not yet funded neither https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/ 18:21:02 Written far before that exchange rate change 18:21:25 If I recall, Diego was in that conversation 18:21:32 the ccs in idea stage had code up, but no license. When milestone was claimed, there was code provided for it, but it wasn't functional 18:21:37 It was licensed permissively once notified (in idea stage) 18:21:42 Mm? What's going on? 18:21:49 kewbit released binaries on reddit, w/o any code updates on repo, which violates rule 4 of ccs and the agpl that the app is licensed under 18:21:53 Oh, lol, I see. This again. 18:22:01 You have forgotten about the app that was sent around for people to install? 18:22:06 closing aremos proposal citing rule 4. 18:22:18 aremors* 18:22:25 Why was that CCS closed? 18:22:27 So many reasons. Its a big saga. I can sing the tale if you want later. 18:22:35 suppressed memory 18:22:38 As I understand there's a meeting going on? 18:22:42 What's the issue aremor you don't want to FOSS? 18:22:46 Of which it’s very relevant 18:22:49 Because he requested payout and said he'd release the code after being paid 18:22:53 Nope 18:22:55 Not the case 18:22:59 Yes sorry. Catching up. 18:23:02 yes, partly over (partly due to bridge delays) but the ccs proposal at hand is a haveno app 18:23:04 it was voted to ban him from ccs, and he released some new slop 12hrs after the meeting 18:23:08 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570#note_30074 18:23:11 Then should probably close every CCS. Every single CCS has work in progress code that is being worked on. 18:23:12 What is with haveno and this specific drama? 18:23:15 Are those ccs's licensed permissively? 18:23:20 I wouldn't be surprised if the community wants more scrutiny of Haven't specific projects because of past shenanigans. No thats not codified in the CCS. But yes it's relevant probably. 18:23:26 aremor has completed milestones 1 2 3. will not be open sourced until the proposal is put to funding (or funded in full) 18:23:30 On a new project? It’s impossible to know because you don’t have the source code 18:23:33 aremor has a ccs oroposal they theyve been working on since march 1st, and has been im idea stage for over 1 month. 3 milestones are completed, or near, and there is no code available 18:23:36 meanwhile there is an open source app being developed , which will be completed in a month, (although concerns over the c# gui backend raised https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app) 18:23:39 rules say must be permissive at all stages, which obv includes idea stage 18:23:45 “No thats not codified in the CCS.” 18:23:47 Wasn’t it because the app was released without source code? 18:23:48 Bruh just FOSS the code. Literally so stupid to do this song and dance again and again and again. 18:23:51 I have no time to waste on this kind of stuff anymore. FOSS code. End of. Ez. 18:23:57 lool 18:24:02 It WILL get merged. That kewbit got paid for milestone 1 is proof of the CCS bending over backward to keep contributors happy if they follow the basic rules like FOSSing code. 18:24:09 This was explicitly defined differently in December 18:24:13 FOSS code. Plz and thx. 18:24:20 Everyone here has been telling me it cannot be merged 18:24:23 Because its not FOSS'd? 18:24:28 Even with no negative feedback on the proposal 18:24:30 No 18:24:33 At all 18:24:35 Only 30 minutes ago plowsof started this rule 4 stuff 18:24:40 Honestly just need to axe Haveno at this point :P 18:24:43 The way I see it is this: 18:24:44 1. If there's code, FOSS it. Then actual discussions can start. 18:24:46 2. If there are other adjustments to be made (rates, community support, etc) it can be done after 1 is complete. 18:24:48 aremor you cited Jackie upvoting your proposal from 2 alts as satisfying the requirements of prev meeting 18:24:50 Why was the CCS closed in December? 18:24:52 It was specifically because a binary was released without code 18:24:54 This wasn't the reason, no. 18:24:56 You dorks are going to make me type it all out again, eh? Alright fine. 18:24:58 no way i'm online 18:25:01 Let me understand this….. 18:25:02 A developer should commit every line they write and push it in order to comply with rule 4? 18:25:04 you are willing to open source your work , so rule 4 was delayed in being applied 18:25:06 Idk who tf jackie is. If they voted they voted 18:25:08 a 12 year old using AI to communicate (currently busy in -mining) 18:25:10 Kewbit's milestone 1 was completed and FOSS'd and eligible for payout. But in the period before release, he did the binary shenanigans. The binary shenanigans were secondary to the real reason though. During said shenanigans it came to light he had more code he was withholding before first payout because he "didn't trust the system". 18:25:14 Satellites, 30k xmr troll 18:25:17 No 18:25:19 I don’t understand this sentence 18:25:23 This led to all sorts of things, but milestone did get paid out. The actual closure happened because community sentiment went so negative on the whole thing because it was a clusterfuck, that nobody wanted to continue dealing with it anymore. So it was closed. 18:25:27 He ruined the "special treatment" for anyone else. Go yell at him. 18:25:32 free to re-open after open sourcing 18:25:35 Nobody gets special treatment anymore. FOSS code. Don't be a bitch about it. Don't move community sentiment too negative on yourself for stupid reasons, or there is indeed no chance of it going through. 18:25:37 The CCS has bare minimum guidelines, but the core people responsible for it listen to community sentiment for merging and decisions. 18:25:42 So no, the binaries thing was not the reason it was closed 18:25:45 it was a part of the whole clusterfuck, and it brought other issues to light. It played a role. But it was not the lynch pin. 18:25:48 *linchpin 18:25:53 Where does it say it WILL merged? 18:25:55 I’ve been led to believe that it will not be 18:25:58 if you keep bitching about FOSSing then indeed I do amend my "WILL" 18:26:01 its this ccs idea https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570 , not seeing any strong merge sentiment so far 18:26:03 The CCS is a trusted system run by a group of people and guided by community sentiment. 18:26:07 if we ignore the rule 4 closure 18:26:09 Five thumbs up. Two from people I recognize. 18:26:12 yeah go post on reddit and twitter and whatever, drum up some support 18:26:15 We’re not talking about a milestone here. Nothing has been claimed 18:26:17 2 of the other 3 are 12 year old from china, the third, no idea 18:26:20 2 of the 5 are from jackie, 30k xmr satellite troll 18:26:23 I was just correcting your misconception that the binary thing was the reason kewbit's thing was closed. 18:26:26 Who is asking for special treatment? 18:26:29 sigh, just FOSS the code broski 18:26:32 Who is even bitching? 18:26:34 just FOSS the code broski 18:26:37 anyways, I've spent too much time on this. Got things to do this weekend. Sorry all. 18:26:40 Meeting over - plowsof's ventriloquist 18:26:44 plowsof is in charge, remember. What he says goes here (with some stipulations), or people are free to use different systems 18:27:13 You can start your proposal before it gets merges, but it still has to be foss 18:27:14 That’s bullshit because you said something completely different in December. 18:27:16 The binary release is what caused everyone to go “ok, it isn’t FOSS. Close it.” 18:27:18 You can even FINISH your proposal before you propose it, still must be foss at _all_ stages 18:27:20 No 18:27:22 So every 2 lines then. Or every 4 lines then. 18:27:24 Or every 400,000 lines. 18:27:26 It’s 100% arbitrary 18:27:28 In IDEA stage, his repo did not have a license file. And we were going to close the proposal if he didnt add one 18:27:30 No i didnt 18:27:32 And that rule has been there for years and years 18:27:34 aremor you are quoting ofrnxmrs opinion back to him reg that interpretation of open source at 'all seconds' 18:27:36 wrong 18:27:38 I just said this was wrong 18:27:40 I literally just said 18:27:42 remember where I just said? 18:27:44 That was fixed long before anyone thought of closing that CCS. That license file issue happened in September 18:27:46 remember where I took the time to explain? God why do I waste my time? 18:27:53 Exactly 18:27:54 Just a FWD from rucknium 18:27:56 a retroactive funding request for 275xmr closed source of work is something else, but we can agree to disagree 18:27:58 a 310 retroactive funding request was merged here https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403 18:28:00 ☝️ 18:28:02 what kind of numb nuts would need to specific foss at the end of that sentence 18:28:04 specify* 18:28:06 Please spell out what the issue is 18:28:08 There’s 4 adjectives there. Which ones are problems 18:28:10 First of all, there is no “claim” 18:28:12 No one has requested payment 18:28:14 Anyway, nothing to talk about 18:28:16 * m-relay wonders what an adjective is 18:28:18 milestone 1 , 2 and 3 of this proposal where open source (totalling 300 xmr) for FCMP++ work https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403 18:28:20 lol you’re comparing me to Luke Parker? 18:28:22 There are regular CCS devs that are regularly funded in 2 hours every time they’re merged. 18:28:24 I’m not one of them. 18:28:26 Can Luke Parker retroactively open a 300xmr CCS that is already open source? 18:28:28 Not many people can. 18:28:30 in the idea stage. milestones 1 , 2 and 3 are closed source (totalling 275 xmr) for a Haveno App (cross platform) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/570/diffs 18:35:33 lol you’re comparing me to Luke Parker? 18:35:34 There are regular CCS devs that are regularly funded in 2 hours every time they’re merged. 18:35:36 I’m not one of them. 18:35:38 Can Luke Parker retroactively open a 300xmr CCS that is already open source? Sure 18:35:40 Not many people can. 18:35:42 The very fact that I’m NOT Luke Parker is why it’s not merged already 18:35:51 i could compare rates? whats your hourly rate for haveno app work? 18:41:01 Ok. Will do. But first, I want a question answered. 18:41:02 What is the reason for closing the proposal? I’m asking again because this conversation has gone all over the place. I want to make sure I’m not confused. 18:41:04 ☝️ 18:41:06 ☝️ 18:41:08 Rule 4 18:41:10 ☝️ 18:41:12 No, its not merged because 18:41:14 1. Rule 4 18:41:16 2. Lack of support 18:41:18 ☝️ 18:41:20 so hourly rates. 275 xmr completed in 2 months , lets figure it out 18:41:22 Wait wait wait wait while a reason is invented 18:41:24 Could have all the support in the world, rule 4 makes the ccs ineligible for discussion beyond the first time being told about it 18:41:26 Again, nothing to discuss anymore. Foss it before reopening the proposal, or try kuno etc 18:41:28 Anything else is noise 18:41:30 There has been no claim for money anywhere so you can stop with this bullshit 18:41:32 ok ill stop, apologies for asking 18:41:34 ☝️ 18:41:36 Just from excuse to excuse. Which is it? It should be retroactive? It shouldn’t be retroactive? It’s rule 4. On wait, devs do write code in their computers….. oh wait! What’s your hourly rate? 18:41:38 Which is it? 18:41:40 Going to try every excuse in the book? Make up your mind 18:41:54 It’s rule 4! Oh wait….. how does anyone write code? 18:41:54 Just jump from excuse to excuse. Which is it? It should be retroactive? It shouldn’t be retroactive? It’s rule 4. On wait, devs do write code in their computers….. oh wait! What’s your hourly rate? 18:41:56 Which is it? 18:41:58 You can finish the work before opening the merge request 18:44:43 I’m sad to see this type of bullshit come out of you all. Literally making up rules on the fly…. for what purpose? 18:44:44 and of course its not required to commit every change and upload every commit as soon as they are made. Youre just complaining to complain 18:45:40 Foss the code or fkoff, fkn wasting months of your own time 18:45:40 the rules havent changed in many years 18:47:07 >- I've been in this community since 2019 and now have the free time to contribute code. I'm NorrinRadd, aka Aremor, aka Blario. 18:47:08 If you came up with a legitimate reason, it would be respected. As it has been respected week after week discussing this. But this bullshit about it’s not FOSS is disgusting plowsof 18:47:10 welcome to the community aremor 18:47:12 An app in development is cancelled because ….. you need an excuse? 18:47:14 Fucking disgusting 18:47:16 open source your retroactive funding request and click 're-open merge request' , sickening ! 18:47:18 Thanks 18:47:20 No excuse will work 18:47:47 the rule is a not up for negotiation beyond the definition of permissive (which implies MIT/BSD etc, but we actually allow copyleft) 18:48:46 ofrnAI: no one is listening to you. According to you, the binary was the issue in December. Now you change your tone. Nothing you say has credibility anymore 18:48:48 You were told, iirc, at at least 1 meeting prior to this one that the code needs to be foss'd. It wasnt fossed. End of story 18:50:42 More lies from you. We discussed the App Store. Keep making up shit. It’s wonderful 18:50:42 According to me? Are you smoking crack? 18:50:44 The logs are available bro 18:52:33 ^ 18:52:38 At last meeting 18:53:07 ^ 18:53:35 ^ 18:53:44 ^ 18:53:54 ^ 19:02:41 Yeah 19:02:49 and of course monero.social had to die during popcorn time 19:11:29 At least the bullshit excuses stopped 19:11:35 m-relay why are you not working 19:11:42 😂😂😂😂 so what is it? 19:11:44 Can’t say? 19:11:46 Might you been vomiting bullshit? 19:11:48 It’s not every line 1. 19:11:50 No, it’s not every 2 lines? 19:11:52 Then wtf is it? Where do you want to draw this arbitrary line in the sand? 19:11:54 What lie can you come up with? 19:11:56 Bro big mad that we wont make exception for him 19:13:27 ⏰ 19:13:31 Waiting for this wonderful lie that explains what’s the maximum amount of code a developer is allowed to write 19:13:33 go cry somewhere else 19:14:38 Every single developer ever since computers began writes code. There’s no getting around that. 19:14:38 So I really want to see what this arbitrary definition is 19:14:40 I mean, your whining has nothing to do with this room 19:14:42 You were told to foss it, chose not to, ans proposal was closed. End of chapter/story 19:15:46 I'm truly sorry for having supported this proposal. As member of the Monero circle and Monerochan priest, I will now proceed to suicide in order to expel my sins. 19:16:00 Keep lying to yourself 19:16:02 “Chose not” 19:16:07 “Was told” 19:16:08 how much needs to be foss? How much work can be done in private? All subjective, but the answer definitively not "all of it" 19:24:41 Then all new projects that were experimented in private are null and void 19:24:43 “Chose not to” 19:24:44 If you're not going to release the source code under a permissive* license, then the chance of being merged a somewhere between 0 and 0. Thanks for understanding 19:25:38 If you're not going to release the source code under a permissive* license, then the chance of being merged is somewhere between 0 and 0. Thanks for understanding 19:28:43 I've less frustration so let me rephrase clearly the conclusion of the meeting: 19:28:44 1. You cannot postulate to CCS if you plan on not FOSS your project. 19:28:46 2. Your project must be FOSS before any of its milestones are completed. 19:28:48 In your case what is concerning is that: 19:28:50 1. We don't understand if you want to keep it closed source. 19:28:52 2. Even if you do want to FOSS it, you have completed milestones of your CCS (even if still unmerged) in a closed source manner, which beyond the rules, is an ethical concern for donors. 19:28:54 Your option: 19:28:56 1. Get to another platform. 19:28:58 2. Foss your current work, remove the already completed milestones and reopen your proposal to be funded for the remaining work. 19:29:31 remove the already completed milestones = removing them from the new proposal 19:31:22 Literally happened to kewbit 19:31:24 What was the demand? 19:31:26 Fucking tyranny 19:31:28 Govt says give me taxes and there bad. But CCS says “give me your work or your proposal included” and that’s A-Okay 19:31:30 Govt says give me taxes and that’s bad. But CCS says “give me your work or your proposal included” and that’s A-Okay 19:31:32 Where did I ever say it would not be open source?????? 19:31:34 The entire point of CCS is to pay people to open source stuff 19:31:36 If it was in a releasable state right now, I would push it. 19:31:38 I've less frustration so let me rephrase clearly the conclusion of the meeting: 19:31:40 1. You cannot postulate to CCS if your project is not FOSS. 19:31:42 2. Your project must be FOSS at all stages, including idea stage. 19:31:44 In your case what is concerning is that: 19:31:46 1. We don't understand if you want to keep it closed source. 19:31:48 2. Even if you do want to FOSS it, you have completed milestones of your CCS (even if still unmerged) in a closed source manner, which beyond the rules, is an ethical concern for donors. 19:31:50 Your option: 19:31:52 Fixed m-reIay 19:32:19 Thats incorrect. The point of ccs is, in part, to crowdfund permissive work 19:32:22 maybe my fault 19:32:26 I did not understand 19:32:32 No 19:33:03 The CCS will wait for this releasable state to be publicized under permissive license 19:33:20 Its not "how we bribe closed source projects into fossing". 19:35:45 There’s no one arguing one semantics. It’s clear what CCS does 19:35:46 This gun to the head to release BEFORE merge is COMPLETELY NEW TO ME 19:35:48 There’s no point arguing one semantics. It’s clear what CCS does 19:35:50 There’s no point arguing over semantics. It’s clear what CCS does 19:35:52 Well its not new at all 19:36:36 yeah its really not new at all 19:37:00 I'm the first to criticize the state of the CCS but you really just put yourself into a misconception 19:37:13 It’s not only you. Diego said something similar. There seem to be a lot of that confusion going around. 19:37:14 How did it get to this point, where I’m being blackmailed into action???? Why????? 19:37:16 Your option: 19:37:18 1. Get to another platform. 19:37:20 2. Foss your current work and reopen your proposal 19:37:22 ^^^ 19:37:44 No one claimed any payment. This is a MR!!!! 19:38:20 You can express all the indignation you want and we're pretty patient but if you continue like such you may piss off people responsible to merge your new proposal, if you ever planned on doing one 19:39:02 alright 19:39:12 let's suppose you wanted to FOSS your work when it got merge 19:39:36 even then it poses ethical issues 19:40:38 because you have completed works that we were not able to verify, and the donors will start to send money for a text they have saw on the CCS website. Imagine that you push a content that is different than the one you claimed. Donors are losing, you are losing, CCS is losing. 19:47:48 Who else has experienced this? 19:47:50 How did I? Because I started work???? Working is bad!?????? 19:47:52 I’m at a loss. It’s supposed to get open sourced right? 19:47:54 No one is asking anyone to verify it! 19:47:56 There is no claim for payment! 19:47:58 If I push something different from what’s claimed, that’s what peer review is for 19:48:00 We’re not to that stage. Nothing has been claimed. 19:48:02 This is the agreement is CCS. What is there to “supppose” about it ?! 19:48:04 The agreement is that it is fossd at all stages 19:48:20 "Not all stages (except for idea)" 19:48:44 Not "all stages (except for idea)" 19:50:21 aremor: what is the worry with open sourcing now? 19:51:06 if you are worried about being scammed that can happen after you are moved to funding anyway. 20:00:44 Waits to find out who else was blackmailed 20:00:44 ??? 20:00:46 Honestly nothing. I have comments to myself all over the place….. lots of code commented out. Lots of bugs. A class that was not singleton, then singleton, and now not being used as a singleton…. 20:00:48 A lot of shit like that 20:00:50 Open source it and them have ofrnxmr commenting for days “hahahahaha look at this” when it could have been cleaned up beforehand 20:00:52 Open source it and then have ofrnxmr commenting for days “hahahahaha look at this” when it could have been cleaned up beforehand 20:00:54 Never said anything like that 20:00:56 Now the flip question is, why am I being extorted to do so before merging??? 20:00:58 Because i said that i made progress, is why I’m being extorted??? 20:01:00 Hilarious comparison. Government says pay taxes or we'll put you in jail and take your freedom. CCS says play by our rules or feel free to use a different system. 20:01:58 You can keep this type of cringe indignation for yourself 20:02:02 Govt says give me taxes and that’s bad. But CCS says “give me your work or your proposal closed” and that’s A-Okay 20:02:04 https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app if you want a FOSS haveno app in development 20:02:06 Freedom of speech and movement doesn't mean you can enter my property and disparage me, piss on my carpet, and threaten my family. I will eject you from my property with force, and your rights will not have been violated. 20:02:48 The freedom of one end at the door of someone else's freedom 20:03:00 So clean it up and come back? 20:03:12 Can you tell me why, to my knowledge, I’m the only person that has had these demands placed on them? 20:03:14 I’ve never seen CCS do this before 20:03:34 because it's the best way of showing your work, it's literally the prototype version 20:04:33 We're like 5 people telling you it's always been like this and still you pretend like you are being gaslighted somehow. Just admit you made a misconception, in the current state of things this is annoying but we can still discuss your next proposal. 20:04:38 whats the difference between opensourcing upon merge vs starting to code openly after merge? 20:05:07 milestone is the key here 20:05:28 meaning? 20:05:34 milestones has been completed before it got open source 20:05:39 It’s been 2 hours. 20:05:40 Time elapsed already? 20:05:52 I would love to explain in details but monero.social take 20 sec to send a message 20:05:59 oh fuck that 20:06:04 IMHO I do think this is a weird requirement to have. What if next week someone comes along `romera` and makes a proposal for a haveno app and "does the work after merging" 20:06:10 Ok. I missed that… that a published prototype was a requirement or I’d be closed because of it. Can you show me that rule? 20:06:20 But you can’t tell me where this happened before 20:06:21 Before* merge, not upon 20:06:59 Its not up for discussion if a wip isnt foss at the time of the discussion 20:07:09 before merge is ridiculous 20:07:18 For a project that has been fraught with delays, fraudsters, drama, and nonsense, the community wanting a higher standard before more pointless merges and drama is understandable. 20:07:24 No I can't because everyone until now have read the rules and respected this requirement. 20:07:30 Literally kewbit 20:07:45 most proposals have no work before merge aremor seems to be being punished for starting early. 20:08:02 thats how i saw it 20:08:06 until they said milestones 20:08:15 you cant be memrged and closed source 20:08:26 I'm actually confused why people don't realize this. Haveno has had one drama after another for years. We get to a point as a community where extra assurances really go a long way to make sure we're not wasting even more time and money. 20:08:33 I'm not a gnu fanatic. I see some interest in keeping your work closed source until you secure donations honestly 20:08:41 the milestone being completed makes me uncomfortable tho 20:08:44 And if someone complains about it, it immediately signals there's only more drama waiting for us. 20:09:04 Show me where unreleased code was demanded before merge 20:09:24 add condition: if merged, must open source immediately 20:09:39 My opinion is: 20:09:40 - This is a weird requirement 20:09:42 - aremor should do it anyway 20:09:55 it would relaxing rule 4 in this case, not adding a condition 20:10:06 otherwise some one who hasnt even started work is some how better off ? 20:10:14 Are you taking a moral, "its the principle" stand here at this point? 20:10:25 It seems to me that this type of requirement has NEVER been made before 20:10:30 i disagree totally with open sourcing upon claiming milestone 20:10:44 progress has to be made in the open 20:10:55 the code was released, but was not fossd 20:11:04 in this age of AI slop, the urge to open source after the fact is not appealing. especially for haveno apps 20:11:10 Someone who started work and shows: "hey guys here's the repo, work has started. Hopefully this can be merged soon" 20:11:30 vs "hey guys heres an idea i have"? 20:11:41 Next community meeting discussion: "we should merge. He's literally done all this work. Look here's the repo. Its of good quality too. Let's get this guy funded!" 20:12:00 does CCS require work to have already begun on the proposal? 20:12:17 For me I'm fine with the idea of keeping closed source, and I would be hypocrite to say otherwise since thats what i planned with my overhaul CCS website. I'm just uncomfortable with the majority of the milestones being completed in close source manner. If one release the code after merging and the milestones do not correspond to the claims, then the CCS will have to choose betwee n wasting the work or negotiate OP on adapting the CCS claims, which would disrespect the donors. Maybe I'm just making movies in my head, if there is a solution to this I'm all for relaxing rule 4 20:12:26 Either works. 20:12:35 No, but it pretty much always helps your case to get funded. 20:12:41 right, so they should have same aount of red tape 20:13:18 make merge conditional on opensourcing (if community otherwise agrees to the proposal) 20:13:20 "negotiate with OP" - reads backlog 20:13:29 Everyone gets that. But to arbitrary cancel someone’s work without prior stating that “you’ll be closed if you start work early” is not reasonable. 20:13:30 Yes, checks need to be made. My understanding is, that’s why all milestone completions are reviewed. 20:13:43 Greatly 20:14:12 wdym? 20:15:03 Can you elaborate? Specifically, what is the concern? 20:15:04 Can I somehow receive ɱ without code? 20:15:14 ^^ 20:15:18 my concern is explained here 20:15:29 there is a scenario that poses challenges for the CCS 20:15:36 there is a scenario that poses challenges for the CCS coordinator and community 20:16:02 boog900 aremor isnt being punished for starting early. Was told to foss a long time ago, and kept working w/o fossing 20:16:26 Which is fine, but you cant come to ccs with a closes source project and ask for it to be merged 20:16:37 Lel, we really need to outline this in the rules, eh? 20:16:38 "If any code is completed before merge into funding required, said work needs to be open-source." 20:16:40 Which you will say just incentivizes people to not start until merge. True. 20:16:42 being "I've completed the majority of my milestones in close source, then release after merging and OH! It's not what I claim it was!" And then CCS have to decide on if they should reject the work or adapt the CCS original purpose to OP 20:16:44 No. I’m asking for fairness. I have never seen anyone have this demand placed on them before 20:17:20 Fcmp++ first ccs by kaya is an example of working in private before approaching. Fossing at idea stage and being funded retroactively. 20:17:36 My git history is in tact 20:17:43 I agree but almost all CCSs have no code when starting, so making someone give up their work before any fund raising is not great IMO. 20:18:04 Why would it? We have no rule against retroactive funding. 20:18:20 They are not giving up their work. They are just asking for the completed milestones that has been done in close source to be dropped from the proposal. 20:18:35 If he do that he can reopen his CCS proposal. 20:18:53 One could also argue that while it's inefficient, he was took into a misconception to begin with 20:18:58 Rolling core dev ccs's have no code, but theu have history. 20:18:58 Most "projects" that are merged DO have code 20:20:10 So it’s not a requirement…. 20:21:50 starting work before merge is not a requirement, correct 20:21:54 IMO, if the work does not match the claims, then it’s no payment. End of story. Isn’t this how it always works?? 20:22:15 Until the requirements are met, it’s no payment 20:22:26 Community sentiment is a big factor in merge. If community sentiment is such that they want to see the code, then it, in effect, becomes a requirement for the proposal in question. 20:22:33 Then what happens to the donors money?? 20:22:58 ngl I really don't know the details of this, from what I understand the work is "done" which is different as we get all the work upfront. 20:23:00 People always hard quoting the rules acting like the community sentiment doesn't play a huge role in the CCS. 20:23:18 FWIW I don't think the milestones should be marked as "completed" until we see code 20:23:26 So to answer this bluntly. In general, no. For you atm, yes. :) 20:23:48 They are not officially marked as completed, it's just that aremor claimed in chat to have completed them 20:24:03 which "administratively" make zero difference 20:24:24 Sorry if this doesn't seem fair to you. Monero is a community project, and core runs the CCS in such a way that it gives big credence to the community. 20:24:28 Its not done, its been getting completed steadily while the ccs has been in limbo. Should have been fossed on a long time ago, and then there would probably be actual support for merging 20:25:56 Aremor's personal claims of completing m1,2,3 etc are not verified. 20:25:56 hell, ffs woodser posted ai slop yestersay 20:26:03 > apparently there is a working android app ready for review: https://github.com/nobbydoo80/haveno-android-build 20:26:04 woodser's message on haveno development room 20:26:14 That is not already in the rules somewhere? I thought I read it. Will be repurposed for a similar effort, or something like that. 20:26:16 Only if you do not try to negotiate with CCS and try not to argue that it would be wasting all the work. I think it's easy to see how someone could use this narrative to say "my precious months of work has been wasted by this greedy CCS that do not want to recognize that needs can change during development!". 20:26:34 And since you have been merged, there is money and donor trust on the table 20:26:43 it's not an easy challenge for CCS 20:26:57 so the better is to not put ourself in this situation to begin with IMO 20:27:03 Donated to generalfund 20:27:39 luigi1111 needs new vacations 20:27:55 i did not ping him i swear 20:28:10 there is also path where someone else can take over the ccs, but that rarely (if ever) works 20:29:13 Acceptxmr, xmrsigner, monero integration, **haveno**, outreach, and at least a few more ccs's come to mind as failed takeovers 20:30:02 It's very easy to say "CCS can reject malicious actors". But authority is never the single solution to all problems. And I think it must be ackowleged that avoiding conflicts is the most sensible solution 20:30:50 everything is a balance as always. OP needs to be respected, donors needs to be respected. 20:30:58 all I know is last time I went with the "they have a technical point on the rules, so we should err on payout" with kewbit, and it ended up being the wrong decision, despite being technically right 20:31:33 This seems like punishing me for some unwarranted suspicions. 20:31:34 I wrote the proposal. Why could I not do what I say I’m going to do. 20:31:36 And how could I expect payment for completing the agreement. 20:31:38 I have no idea where this is coming from. 20:31:52 learning to listen to the gut here, and the gut says that anyone that ignores the community sentiment aspect to grandstand on the "rules as written" is not someone I'm inclined to trust, which makes me want to see the code even more 20:32:19 the problem there, diego, is that the code was pure garbage 20:32:34 Why couldn't you just do something else either? 20:32:34 You are anonymous, we don't know you. 20:32:45 we used to talk to kewbit hours on end too 20:32:52 Right. And the reason we don't have rules on "code quality" written into the CCS, is because the "community sentiment" aspect is supposed to encompass that. We have enough good devs here to be able to sus that stuff out. 20:33:03 So kewbit being paid out, ignored the "community sentiment: aspect. And it was wrong. 20:33:14 literal flashbacks going on here 20:33:30 This is not a payout. 20:33:57 I understand this. Doesn't help the trust sentiment here though. 20:34:18 kewbit did a good job marketing. Everyone thought thay someone else had ok'd the code 20:34:19 This seems like punishing me for some unwarranted suspicions. 20:34:20 I wrote the proposal. Why could I not do what I say I’m going to do. 20:34:22 And how could I expect payment for not completing the agreement. 20:34:24 I have no idea where this is coming from. 20:34:58 #showcode 20:35:15 and maybe rates too 20:35:47 sadly, we can't even begin to get into the other aspects to be adjusted in the proposal yet. :) 20:35:49 He exposed that weren't paying attention and he even tried to double-down and post even worse slop to get a further payout 20:36:07 But yes, it's worth pointing out that #showcode doesn't guarantee merge. There may be other adjustments to be made. But #showcode is a prereq for all of those discussions here 20:36:34 I was about to mention that this "drama" is also distracting from other parts of the proposal, such as actual support 20:37:12 It's very very simple. 20:37:14 1. Community sentiment plays a big role in merge (and payout) 20:37:16 2. Revealing you have code you're withholding tanks community sentiment. 20:37:18 and the fact that a haveno app will be developed sooner rather than later https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app 20:37:20 So I know you'll say: "so I should have kept my mouth shut then?" 20:37:27 yeah probably, if you didn't want to tank community sentiment 20:37:32 this discussion is trending towards "i showed code, now merge!" 20:37:47 let me amend the above 20:37:52 So I know you'll say: "so I should have kept my mouth shut then?" 20:38:05 If you planned on not FOSSing the code until you get what you want, then yes you should have kept your mouth shut 20:38:26 or you could have INCREASED community sentiment by saying "look here's code, it's foss, it's good quality, plz merge" 20:38:52 learn to play the game, people 20:39:38 is this proof of your work aremor? https://github.com/NorrinRadd/temp-storage some zipped thing? 20:40:00 The only reason people reveal they are making progress and completing milestones is to build social credit and increase chance of merge. Remember you are doing so in a FOSS community. You don't get the social credit when you don't FOSS the code too. ;) 20:40:46 if I am contributing to this, I'm sorry. I'm merely trying to say that trying to earn points for doing work ahead of time is a valid way to do things, but you gotta commit to the FOSS bit to really get those points 20:40:51 otherwise it turns into this 20:41:16 Alternatively you can work ahead absolutely. But don't try to claim the community cred for doing so unless you're willing to FOSS 20:41:33 ah your actual temp-file-storage ignore 20:41:56 there is a video of your supposedly prototype app on this repo btw 20:42:07 https://github.com/NorrinRadd/temp-storage/raw/refs/heads/main/docs/HavenoMobile.mov 20:42:20 Nah, its just reminiscent to kewbit. During the noise, everyone forgot to check the signal 20:42:37 what happened with this PR https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/26356 20:44:04 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 20:44:43 2 months old 20:45:35 Also pull up my other thing where I said you should open source anyway 20:46:08 They’re already telling me that that won’t help 20:46:22 From what I see you are doing this out of principal rather than any actual worry, which is just annoying. 20:46:47 literally everyone is telling you it will only help your case. It won't guarantee a merge if there's other issues (I understand there are some concerns about rates), but it will ONLY help your case 20:46:53 since right now you have no case and your proposal is dead in the water :) 20:46:56 Yes it wont be insta merged but it will open the discussion back up 20:49:42 And I’m apparently the first person this has ever happened to. Through no real fact of my own? 20:50:48 And I’m apparently the first person this has ever happened to. Through no real fault of my own? 20:51:30 You're only embarrassing yourself, you're dangerously near the line of zero credibility 20:52:03 Accept the situation and start to think about whats next. 20:52:59 I don’t see it that way. It’s already cancelled. The worst of it, there’s nothing being lost afterward. 20:53:14 And literally being told they giving up my work won’t matter 20:54:28 selective reading wont help your case. 20:54:45 Nothing will help the case 20:54:52 ok we need to start from the top - everyone who has commented on this , get back here 20:54:56 open sourcing 🚀 20:55:11 LMAO 20:55:26 I love how plowsof said get back here and I could atsamd21 read receipts running the screen 20:56:28 lol that was a long read 21:00:26 Community sentiment seemed good to me. 4 distinct upvotes and no downvotes. 21:00:26 Then suddenly, closed out of nowhere. 21:01:10 It seemed like it was closed during the meeting. Where these things were discussed. And sentiment was decreasing. 21:01:19 "Out of nowhere" is a brain dead take. 21:01:47 When it was closed, it seemed unilaterally by plowsof 21:02:07 Either way, continue yowling about it here if you'd like. I'm off. Best of luck. 21:02:15 Literally out of nowhere. From zero negative feedback, to closed. 21:05:40 sorry that i did that 21:05:59 plowsof 21:06:09 you have won the argument 21:06:10 time to cut your belly with the sacred sword 21:07:57 Good. You can fix it by re-opening it 21:08:50 I'll just say here for the record that aremor posted a 2 months old video of of its haveno application which showcase macOS desktop with a direct recording of his iphone. I will also say here for the record that by inspecting the very last media file sent by kewbit in this very channel, the border of its windows and his cursor corresponded to the one of macOS. 21:09:02 Maybe any entity draw any conclusions that they want 21:09:18 I do not support any conclusion whatsoever. 21:09:42 May these elements be used somewhat in the future or not, they are recorded here for posterity. 21:25:03 lmao 21:39:04 aremor: I am confused. Why not open source it now according to the rules if you were going to do it anyways to get paid ? 21:39:59 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Tldr convo? 21:40:07 ^ 21:40:16 jeffro256: 21:40:30 I was literally about to and ofrnxmr, plowsof, and Diego started talking about it’s not going to matter 21:40:31 ^ 21:40:51 It’s clear to me that the goalposts are going to continue to be moved further and further back 21:41:34 "Not going to matter" = not instant merge 21:41:41 The rate was not mentioned one time before plowsof closed the proposal 21:41:55 All of a sudden the rate is a concern 21:42:11 Also remember when I said it would literally only help you case? 21:42:14 Remember? 21:42:18 i don't remember 21:42:22 fuck wrong alt 21:42:28 Remember? 21:42:40 Remember? 21:42:46 After I release everything, then what? 21:42:48 “No, we need market graphs” 21:42:50 “Nope, I want animations” 21:42:52 There’s no telling where it’s going to end. 21:42:54 Remember? 21:42:56 It seems like the goal posts aren't moving , the rules are just being enforced in your case .. 21:42:59 Remember? 21:43:03 Its not a subject if the proposal isnt eligible for merge anyway 21:43:12 is bridge broken or smth 21:43:17 this is ridiculous 21:43:28 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Gibbs CCS rule says all work is permissive while working on iy 21:43:30 I'm more patient than ofrnxmr yet It's over 21:43:47 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Aloha haveno 21:43:49 aremor, go whine elsewhere 21:44:06 no one fucking care, you've been explained a hundred time, you are just acting in bad faith 21:44:22 Patient like a doctors patient /s 21:44:46 Its important to note that different people in the community are different people and will ask different questions . I could be wrong, but none of those are blockers for the CCS at the moment, right ? Just the fact that you haven't open sourced your work 21:45:08 All of a sudden today, I have to release everything or the proposal is closed. 21:45:08 Then Plowsof says the rate is wrong AFTER they already closed the proposal. 21:45:10 The rules are changing as we watch. 21:45:12 Who do you know that was demanded they release everything on their computer before being merged before? 21:45:39 <3​21bob321:monero.social> This is was the same issue with kewbit 21:45:49 <3​21bob321:monero.social> On the exact CSS 21:45:52 The completion of the majority of the milestones in close source and the non-FOSS release of it before merge is a blocker for the proposal in its current form. He needs to modify it and reopen it 21:46:41 No one is demanding you "release everything on your computer" , just that you release the work relevant to your CCS proposal, as is stated in the rules. What is wrong with doing that? 21:47:35 Honestly him saying that I said the opposite of what I actually said is the end for me. Self fulfilling prophecy. Indeed it doesn't matter anymore if he amends as far as im concerned. I'd vote no. 21:47:52 A person without basic reading comprehension on what im saying shouldn't be working on this stuff. :) 21:47:56 same 21:48:03 don't trust him 21:48:05 It doesn't inspire confidence 21:48:16 wdym -> "negotiate with the OP" 21:48:26 brother 21:48:30 He's been doing this for hours 21:48:30 there is no rule 4 , this is just part of the interview process 21:48:33 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Proposal 21:48:34 <3​21bob321:monero.social> 4. All work must be licensed permissively at all stages of the proposal. There is no time where your work can be licensed under a restrictive license (even as you're working on it). Your proposal will be terminated if this is not remedied. 21:48:37 could you ask me that like 2 hours before 21:48:42 the assessment was the reaction 21:48:57 2 hours ago* 21:48:58 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Gibbs rule ^ 21:49:18 It's a disciple from the church of kewbit. He did this exact thing with similar levels of abysmal reading comprehension (at best) or manipulation (at worst) 21:49:20 Kewbit released a closed source app. 21:49:22 I’m being extorted for my WIP. 21:49:39 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Someone has seen your code? 21:49:42 Oh no you are being extorted 21:49:49 bro needs to fucking reddit post about it 21:49:52 this is outrageous 21:49:55 without warning i closed your proposal after my attempt to extort the source was denied. i then said your rates where wrong. 21:49:59 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Cause closed source and not showing is the same 21:50:01 Show me where it has been released! 21:50:21 Are you retarded? 21:50:41 Nothing is wrong with that. But it’s clear that’s not going to be the end of the extortion 21:50:43 <3​21bob321:monero.social> No name calling 21:51:12 <3​21bob321:monero.social> We have another playing the victim, like qtip 21:51:14 OH nvm 21:51:18 yeah thats my bad 21:51:33 I meant "non FOSS-release", not "non-FOSS release" 21:51:39 two different meaning 21:51:41 how can devs be expected to upload source after ctrl+s, we expect them to live stream their every move? this is ridiculous!!!!! 21:51:45 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Proposal 21:51:46 <3​21bob321:monero.social> 4. All work must be licensed permissively at all stages of the proposal. There is no time where your work can be licensed under a restrictive license (even as you're working on it). Your proposal will be terminated if this is not remedied. 21:51:48 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Do you comply with this rule, that you agreed to when getting the proposal ? 21:51:50 No 21:52:10 <3​21bob321:monero.social> So trust me bruh ? 21:52:23 aremor: you used AI didn't you? 21:52:43 Bro needs a dictionary 21:53:03 <3​21bob321:monero.social> There is no rule against skynet AI yet 21:53:25 aremor lets keep this discussion going for days 21:53:28 its great for your cause 21:53:34 <3​21bob321:monero.social> What happens if we pay and code doesn't work 21:53:41 3 months for AI. I’d need a refund 21:53:48 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Rug pull ? 21:53:59 ai.png 21:54:24 Why would you pay? 21:54:44 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Your claiming milestone ? 21:54:49 this is not a payment request how dare you mention pay!!!! 21:55:17 aremor: what do you gain by going to funding now before you open source 21:55:22 this is not a payment request!!!! 21:55:25 (apart from hiding the AI usage a bit longer) 21:55:46 Where? Show me 21:56:01 Not payment of a milestone 21:56:09 <3​21bob321:monero.social> That's why I asked tldr 21:56:27 Its a request for payment from donors to the ccs wallet 21:56:29 It tells me that the project is moving forward 21:56:44 aremor literally 3 microsecond after proposal is funded: 21:56:44 "so as i have said ive already completed milestone 1, 2 ,3. awaiting payment pretty please" 21:56:59 Merging IS a payment request 21:57:37 Why do you need to be told that? 21:57:45 <3​21bob321:monero.social> So its proposal moving to funding ? 21:57:58 Pay me with what? Monopoly bucks? 21:58:10 I propose we merge his proposal and fund him with monero testnet 21:58:12 it makes no sense why you need to know the project is moving forward if you are not scared of being scammed 21:58:16 Its closed now, due to rule 4 21:58:19 <3​21bob321:monero.social> I need a tiktok version of this issue 21:58:32 If the project is not moving forward, I should be doing something else with my time 21:58:49 yeah my attention span is like 300 milliseconds 21:58:54 lot to process 21:59:02 You obviously didn't think so when you started work preemptively 21:59:15 we can wait for https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app 🤷 21:59:20 can you ask the AI to read the chat log and give a good reply please and thanks 21:59:21 What changed since then ? 21:59:23 Where is this word “scam” coming from? 21:59:26 CCS acknowledge that you can work preemptively during FUNDING 21:59:43 not before MERGING. 21:59:44 Only person I know used that before shall not be named 21:59:46 I think we should fund https://github.com/nobbydoo80/haveno-android-build 21:59:55 why else would you need assurances the CCS is moving forward 22:00:12 honesty is the best policy, A* for nobbydoo80 22:00:24 is the "and Claude" what i think it is ? 22:00:26 Correct. Today has been a shocker. I’m amazed. 22:01:57 yes :D 22:01:59 yes lol 22:02:00 Where? 22:02:02 Because merger is not guaranteed 22:02:17 tbf I would be pretty confused too if I decided to only read half the chat 22:02:35 I'm sorry chat btw I just remember the wise word of someone else and "r*tard" is not a nice word at all. 22:02:58 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Rust will fix this 22:03:06 I’ve never seen CCS demand work before merging before. Have you? 22:03:30 not guaranteed vs never going to happen. By holding the code you are making your situation worse 22:03:33 Lmao 22:03:44 <3​21bob321:monero.social> You know qtip showed some code first 22:03:54 qtip was better 22:03:56 do better 22:04:04 <3​21bob321:monero.social> There is the bar 22:04:52 and the work is done to me you are losing nothing by open sourcing apart from leverage to try extort us. 22:04:56 cough cough kewbit 22:05:38 lol I’m extorting who or what? 22:05:59 What do I receive? 22:06:04 lol I’m extorting who of what? 22:06:22 you ask a lot of question. stop typing english and start typing LICENSE.md 22:06:33 <3​21bob321:monero.social> I am in meta verse ? 22:06:34 Its literally explicitly stated in the the posted rules 22:06:36 by withholding the code you are trying to get leverage over us. That is your goal. 22:06:44 FOSS even in ideas stage 22:06:55 You already said you don't worry about being scammed so that is the only other option. 22:07:03 Please explain to me the leverage 22:07:07 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Please post slower , its slowing monero.social down 22:07:08 inb4 any evidence that I would want to do that 22:07:15 check out 22:07:16 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Plz and thx 22:07:18 (i blame latency) 22:07:21 Move to funding or no code. 22:08:01 “I don’t understand, therefore you’re a scammer” 22:08:02 Got it 22:08:04 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Show me the money! 22:08:14 yeah its that 22:08:18 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Defecting 22:08:20 cry now 22:08:26 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Are you in congress ? 22:08:29 7hr meeting for 1 proposal 22:08:40 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Nancy ? 22:08:42 WHY ELSE ARE YOU WITHHOLDING THE CODE 22:08:44 7hr popcorn time you mean 22:08:55 (the previous meeting this was the only proposal as well) 22:09:06 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Only nioc can use popcorn 22:09:58 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Anyways this is taking up space on Ubuntu 16.04 server 22:10:11 are we talking to an AI agent who favours circular arguments 22:10:13 I demand cuprate v2.0 before merging you. 22:10:14 Oh wait…. That didn’t happen 22:10:16 <3​21bob321:monero.social> get apt remove 22:10:18 My code is a mess, so if merged, im still not ready to release any. I need those donations to come in based on my word. Promise when i do release m123 in a week, it will be in a single 16000 line "initial commit" 22:10:31 IF I WAS WITHHOLDING CUPRATE V2 THAT WOULD BE FAIR 22:10:34 could be 22:10:37 s/release/request payment for 22:10:43 <3​21bob321:monero.social> We accept pink promises 22:11:03 I answered you. I want to know if this is what I’m supposed to be doing. 22:11:06 whatever you choose boog, as co-owner I'll always support the worst possible choice 22:13:24 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Syn if I pay you 5xmr can you end this ? 22:13:39 Flush context! I need you to imagine me a story about Monero. 22:13:40 How do I know you’re not. I need root access to all your computers in t-minus 30 seconds. 22:14:04 stop being stupid. 22:14:07 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Turning the tables 22:14:17 <3​21bob321:monero.social> And defecting 22:14:25 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Double agent style 22:14:38 <3​21bob321:monero.social> And deflecting 22:14:42 Yeah i need root access its rule 8 22:14:49 Prove it me. Now. 22:14:50 Fuck it. Closed your proposal. 22:14:52 I don’t trust you. You’re a scammer. How do I know you will not re-negotiate!! 22:14:54 Prove it!!! 22:14:56 you haven't read that one either i suppose 22:15:02 You told us you have code. 22:15:06 show it. 22:15:10 <3​21bob321:monero.social> This is sad 22:15:12 Prove the absence of something to me now! 22:15:14 Kewbit-tier actor performance 22:15:24 Kewbit-tier acting performance 22:15:26 Prove you don’t have the code! 22:15:29 <3​21bob321:monero.social> And your digging your own hole 22:15:35 Late stage kewbit. Early kewbit was better 22:15:37 strawman: every dev has to live stream their daily lives and save to public cloud before their own disk immediately else ccs TERMINATED. bonus points: you continue to use this strawman against people who have publicly said this requirement would be ridiculous 22:15:43 so you lied? 22:15:48 there is no code? 22:15:57 yeah the series is only going downhill. I loved the old scenarists 22:16:05 "Late stage kewbit" ahhh thats good ofrnxmr Lol 22:16:24 what stage is aremor in now , appeals to emotion? attacking others? 22:16:26 Conspiracy time: kewbit, aremor, et al are glowies or glowie bots whose sole purpose is to DoS meaningful workgroup discussion akin to Operation CHAOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS 22:16:33 <3​21bob321:monero.social> There is bar you need to reach 22:17:18 guys I do have to say we should give ourselves a pat on the back as a community, no funds got given away this time 22:17:41 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Well in prime target NSA was watching all the mathematicians 22:17:50 There will be a time in the future where cryptographic keys will be the only way for us humans to notate who is really humans and when AI will be too advanced anyone losing their keys will not able to prove they are humans anymore 22:18:21 <3​21bob321:monero.social> He predicted prime nuumbers 22:18:34 "I just try and stay healthy enough to see the next haveno APP proposal" 22:18:39 > Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) domestic espionage project targeting American citizens 22:18:40 interesting. 22:18:45 I'm sure this is legal 22:18:52 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Yest 22:19:02 We will get GTA VI before Haveno app 22:19:03 <3​21bob321:monero.social> ^ 22:19:46 VII 22:19:46 Didnt we get vi? Or was that just a trailer 22:20:03 GTA V exist. GTA VI isn't release yet 22:20:31 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Which one was Miami ? 22:21:04 <3​21bob321:monero.social> That's the last one I played 22:21:06 both 22:21:57 Idk but the Chicago one was Pope XIV 22:22:25 <3​21bob321:monero.social> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto:_Vice_City 22:22:29 <3​21bob321:monero.social> This 22:29:34 #monero-games channels when? 22:30:05 #monero-payout-panic channel when? 22:31:24 it always turns into someone hosting a minecraft server with a monero wallet / casino and rug pulling 22:32:47 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Day 0 of monero drama 22:34:13 It's sad to see that it's sort of common now to see big modpacks on Curseforge etc with microtransactions added in by default 22:34:22 The prices are absolutely atrocious too 22:35:33 Though I do remember that there have been paid servers since forever, so... 22:35:38 POV you misclick of OBHosting button instead of multiplayer 22:39:43 Also before sponge was naturally obtainable, there used to be servers where the in-game currency was sponge. You could buy sponge from the server for real USD and use it in-game to get diamonds/resources, custom effects potions, and cosmetics 22:40:28 literally bukkit era 22:44:39 Shoot I think it was this plugin : https://dev.bukkit.org/projects/vault 22:45:04 > Created Oct 11, 2011 22:45:06 i don't know much about MC, i just stand near people and watch them doing things and i don't talk 22:45:18 Sorry I'll take this to off-topic my b 22:55:16 I’m still waiting for someone to clarify what the requirement is this. How much thinking is too much? 22:55:42 Pitiful 22:57:44 is the meeting still going on? Does it get into the Guinness book? 22:59:11 Nioc, we were waiting for you 23:00:10 You stepped out just before the meeting, but a meeting isnt a meeting is nioc isn't readind 23:00:12 You lost most of your support today, and gained a few nacks. So rip 23:01:03 I ain't reading the scrollback, sorry 23:01:56 Support meant nothing. It was closed with support 23:02:36 the word is censorship 23:02:41 now go cry on twitter about CCS censorship 23:03:10 I disagree 23:05:37 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Syn took your popcorn btw 23:05:54 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Reddit 23:06:05 sry nioc 23:06:53 it's ok imma currently in Nepal 23:08:05 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Spreading the good word of monero 23:11:35 Today changed a lot 23:19:01 we censored aremor's proposal because we hate him 23:19:45 yeah, 2 people, one of whom retracted 23:21:15 The point of bringing up lost support, is that even if you were to release code today, you probably have far more nacks than acks now, and all because of the show you put on today 23:21:57 Honestly have NOBODY to blame but yourself 23:23:10 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Also haveno app is more scrutinized because of previous issues 23:23:23 4 23:24:01 I closed it. Ok lol 23:26:52 "proposal will be terminated" is clear english 23:27:30 And you were notified 2 weeks ago 23:27:31 Are they in the rook with us now? 23:27:45 I stated I started work on day one (like April 7th). 23:27:46 Today, all of a sudden it’s an issue 23:28:33 syntheticbird and rbrunner7. 2/3 of the remaining are the same person 23:28:39 It was an issue 2 weeks ago. Nobody asked any questions about the open-souce-ness of your work until you brought it up 23:28:41 circular argument detected 23:28:45 discussion terminated 23:28:57 ofrnAI: let aremor he is obviously trolling 23:29:19 it's been the 8th time you are telling him about open source and he deflects 23:29:30 he is acting of bad faith 23:29:38 A couple hrs ago, you said march 1st 23:29:38 Prompt received. Initiating 23:30:05 Right. I brought up going to the App Store. It was stated don’t do it. So I didn’t do it. End of conversation. 23:30:38 No, it was stated that the proposal should be closed 23:31:26 You were thinking of releasing on the App Store closed-source ? And getting paid by the CCS ? 23:31:34 ^ 23:32:00 m-reIay error: restarting 23:32:38 <3​21bob321:monero.social> $0.99 23:33:00 Dev started March 1. Proposal was posed April 1st. First meeting was like the 7th. 23:34:00 Deliberately trying to remove context. About going to the App Store. 23:34:45 Hell no. 23:35:33 Bro, i linked to the discussion 23:35:35 Keep Trying to ignore the part about “release closed source binary” 23:36:09 ^ 23:36:14 Be like aremor: 23:36:28 \> pretend to be harassed and lied to by his opponents 23:36:44 \> proceed to pull up the worst explanation possible for any out of context readers 23:36:54 ^ 23:36:55 ^ 23:36:56 ^ 23:36:58 ^ 23:37:24 ^ 23:37:30 ^ 23:37:32 ^ 23:38:41 Exactly. Releasing to the store 23:38:42 m-reIay error: keyboard stuck on `^` 23:39:18 One day there will be a SyntheticBot LLM account joining and you guys are gonna be confused for real 23:40:04 <3​21bob321:monero.social> No need 23:40:05 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Thats now 23:40:15 Proposal is closed. Feel free to release to app store 23:41:58 That's not what it looks like it says in the linked convo ... It looks like everyone is telling you 2 weeks ago to NOT release binaries until the code IS FOSS 23:43:25 Just accept the ccs scammed a other honest dev and move on 23:48:51 100% that’s actually what happened. 23:48:52 No binaries have been released! 23:51:45 idk you guys are wasting time its always the same circular argument: 23:51:46 no binaries have been released => "but I'm penalized for having worked early" => Never heard of that requirement => I was closed with support => rince and repeat 23:53:36 Not 1 lie there