16:08:22 monerobull: is there a video demo of grease? 16:14:24 if the UX is good enough, I think the clearest use-case is probably for things you might use a tab for 16:18:00 I don't think I'm allowed to share it yet ':) 16:18:12 @sgp I heard that you're working for the police/law enfircement now. Is that true? 16:18:23 Might be reserved for monerokon 16:21:53 [@monerobull:matrix.org](https://matrix.to/#/@monerobull:matrix.org) I think the biggest problem with channels in practice, at least while on chain fees are low, is that the volatility risk can be significant. If I'm a merchant that has costs in EUR and receive an XMR payment via a channel, I need to close the channel to send the received XMR to an exchange and then sell it. Which 16:21:54 defeats the purpose. So a merchant needs to short the XMR they are due, and there aren't that many good ways to do this right now 16:22:49 True but then you can also have payment providers for this thing 16:23:16 "make a channel with me and spend xmr on 10k websites" 16:23:40 And then the provider settles fiat with the stores and handles the volatility themselves 16:24:59 I guess you could do that without a L2 16:25:38 That might only work at a quite large scale due to regulations, which makes it hard to set up and gather initial traction. And yeah, and L2 isn't strictly necessary if there's a third party 16:26:02 Might as well be a custodial balance 16:26:05 Ok but how about the gambling example 16:27:01 For the gambling site example it might have advantages, especially if their payouts are tied to XMR 16:27:04 I know that there are some very specific use cases this shines in and that it's mostly useless for other types of transactions 16:27:37 But a gambling site custodial balance addresses this, at least mostly 16:27:48 @sgp what types of activities are you doing with law enforcement exactly? 16:27:59 Yeah but then you have custodial balances 16:29:35 The thing is, many claim they need instant transactions but they really dont 16:29:44 Nobodies credit card settles instantly 16:30:01 I consider the main advantage (from the site's perspective)to be psychological: "I'm a gambler and I'm opening this channel but I might not actually spend it all" but then they actually do. It might help stimulate more gambling 16:30:18 I am totally fine waiting for 2-5 minutes when paying for an online order 16:31:03 Or the opposite, XMr.gg locks you behind some stupid play-through number before you can withdraw 16:31:26 > <@sgp_:monero.social> I consider the main advantage (from the site's perspective)to be psychological: "I'm a gambler and I'm opening this channel but I might not actually spend it all" but then they actually do. It might help stimulate more gambling 16:31:26 Or the opposite, the one newish site locks you behind some stupid play-through number before you can withdraw 16:31:47 @sgp your publicly facing profile says you "help law enforcement agencies track and understand complex cryptocurrency transactions and blockchain activities. This includes in-depth analysis of blockchain transactions and infrastructure, advanced tracing of Monero and other privacy coins, and de-obfuscation of sophisticated illicit financial flows." 16:32:09 legitimately the best usecase is at a bar 16:33:15 Yeah I agree. For a chain with a financial department that properly configures shorting XMR to eliminate the volatility risk 16:33:39 wafflefrie there is nothing wrong with sgp using the expertise that they got to fight crimes 16:34:23 Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. I'd love to know how they are de-obfuscating monero transactions. 16:34:48 Well you're in luck 16:35:22 https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSYUeVwrHBnAUre2G_LYDsdo 16:35:29 https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsSYUeVwrHBnAUre2G_LYDsdo-tD0ov-y 16:36:13 Here sgp explains most of it 16:36:54 I don't really use YouTube unfortunately. 16:37:43 I'll note the links for now and try to get around to them. Thabks for that, though. 16:41:41 Some might say it contradicts with Monero's goal of being the best privacy coin if people in our own community are financially vested in exploiting weaknesses in Monero's privacy. 16:43:14 I'm not saying burn @sgp at the stake, but I'd love to know how he squares that in his mind. 20:29:54 wafflefrie https://xcancel.com/L0laL33tz/status/1904565854227804430 I don't like that he decided to live a life of crime. The industry he is part of is filled with fraudster, criminals and surveillance freaks. I also don't like that he tried to ban me and others before. but even criminals like him do useful things for the community sometimes. 20:31:14 wafflefrie https://xcancel.com/L0laL33tz/status/1904565854227804430 I don't like that he decided to live a life of crime. The industry he is part of is filled with fraudsters, criminals and surveillance freaks. I also don't like that he tried to ban me and others before. but even criminals like him do useful things for the community sometimes. 21:07:57 (not here to reheat old drama, just kindly helping to resolve the cognitive dissonance for onlookers :D ) 21:21:53 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Ban ? 21:25:55 (((for committing the heinous crime of freely using parentheses 🥺))) 21:31:04 surprised dan doesnt remember, he got muted the same day 21:33:20 anyway just wanted to mention that I added multiwallet scanning https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/555#note_30356 21:34:33 someone mentioned on twittor that they are triggered by the callback api. maybe I should add a generator based version 🤔 21:44:01 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Memory leak 21:44:04 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Should of used rust 22:55:22 Disagree. If Monero is traceable, the thing to do is harden the tech. 22:55:26 Hence FCMPs. 22:56:16 at wafflefrie ^ 22:56:35 Re contradicting monero goak 22:56:43 Bitcoin is lame because they whine instead of build. "No don't work with chain analysis companies! Its bad for bitcoin, you monster." 22:56:52 Rather than just building better tech. 22:56:59 Cypherpunks build 22:57:10 I also think its absolutely dumbfounding that ppl think that shoving your head in the sand make monero private 22:57:49 Therr are times ive personally wanted to attack the network to expose privacy holes, since ppl like to LARP around like there are none 22:58:14 But then i remember that the irs bounties are pathetically low 22:59:37 If sgp can break monero, you should assume that he's far from the only one. Being out own biggest critics is the only way to stay ahead of our external critics / adversaries 23:01:07 I'm not even defending sgp, but saying that you have to be incredibly naive to assume that anything that any one of us does is a problem. 23:01:08 whether qubic can 51% monero, or sgp can trace monero transactions, thats a "you" problem. Fix the blockchain or keep crying rivers 23:05:07 you dont get stronger by lying to yourself about your weaknesses