03:35:31 Reminder: Monero Community Workgroup meeting later today at 16:00 UTC. Agenda: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1233 10:07:41 <321bob321:monero.social> BYO popcorn 11:00:47 <4rkal:monero.social> Poor little Microsoft can't handle the traffic 11:04:29 is github ok now? https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/408#why 11:06:02 That's the spirit 11:09:46 <321bob321:monero.social> Azure broked? 13:03:52 Could MoneroOS be setup for network boot and have the config file in tftp? Shouldn't be hard if that's the only network boot device and you have something set to boot on the network. Can build xmrig from source on startup so you just restart computers to update it. Headnode could run p2pool. 13:25:37 <4rkal:monero.social> For xmrig binaries? 13:27:12 <4rkal:monero.social> Am I sensing a bit of a personal issue with me here? 13:29:19 <4rkal:monero.social> Plow am I sensing a bit of a personal issue with me here? 13:36:09 definitely, each of your 2 previous proposals are ideologically flawed, and we have to endure back and forth while you don't adjust much of anything 13:36:58 im sensing a repeat 13:40:08 i left a comment which you may not have seen https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/596#note_30722 13:42:10 for visibility: Rucknium left a comment on gingeroplous' monerosim + hardware upgrade proposal https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/589#note_30729 , thanks for discussing this proposal at MRL meetings. ginger made the curent "CRAPL" code public @ https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim 13:43:43 personal dilemma: what precedent does this set in terms of vibe coding https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/commits/main/ we're talking full-send , client side git LLM with emojis in commit titles 13:46:30 <4rkal:monero.social> Ideologically flawed? 13:47:23 <4rkal:monero.social> Please do keep in mind that these proposals were made 2 years ago 13:47:31 <4rkal:monero.social> (except for dmvp2p ig) 14:30:07 Get in touch with this platform for greatness you’ll definitely thank me later 14:30:09 ℹ️❤️ 14:30:11 https://t.me/+zEFPK-AiVFEyZDM0 15:23:07 meeting in 37m https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1233 16:00:22 Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1233 16:00:25 greetings" 16:00:46 hi 16:01:01

Hello 16:01:30 Hello. 16:01:33 <4rkal:monero.social> Hello hello 16:02:05 Greets 16:02:32 July 10th was the extension for the FCMP++ optimisation competition , looking forward to the results of that 16:03:22 we all know about dero, well xelis is a similar blockchain (w/o the problems) and one of the xelis devs had a submission 💪 16:04:02 just a reminder about [proven scam services to avoid](https://kycnot.me/service/moleswap-xyz#verification) ( moleswap .xyz , zeroslip . finance , crowswap .exchange ) 👍️ 16:05:02 Be smart. Use trocador, orangefren, cyphergoat. Or be smarter and use basicswapdex, retoswap, or unstoppableswaps 16:05:08 huge thanks for jeffro256 and jberman for organising / judging the competition with kayabanerve providing input 16:06:01 pluja from kycnot.me is doing great work trying to vet services to prevent scams from being listed there. another great resource 16:06:41 there will be a new release of monero soon too xD 16:06:42 we have a monero update looking to be tagged for monday (0.18.4.1) 16:06:47 Jinx 16:07:22 🙏 16:07:24 thanks 16:08:09 how many releases has tobtoht helped with merges now? doing a great job 16:08:27 master has some nice stuff on it. Also looking forward to the 19.0 release (people should build and test master as well) 16:09:00 monerokon moved their meeting 1 hr earlier so it now happens at the some time as this one 16:09:18 also the same time 16:09:38 i guess monerokon is racist and antisemitic and other things 16:10:00 meeting maxxing , thanks , monerotalk too? 16:10:12 monerotalk is 4hrs long, doesnt count 16:10:43 any other highlights to bring up not touched on? 16:11:27 cypherstacks live stream of smart peoples? surae sporting an MRL tshirt :D 16:11:40 thanks for setting that up Diego Salazar ! 16:12:04 the youtube link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxG0PkRojho 16:12:15 Yeah. Was fun to do. 16:12:32 dont 4get to add your liquidity to basicswap. New market maker update was out a couple weeks ago, further improvements coming shortly 16:13:01 This meeting is sponsored by BasicSwapDex 16:13:10 Also can use existing btc node if you one from say, bisq or smthn 16:13:19 Thanks synbird 16:13:57 ok then lets get to the ccs ideas 16:14:02 a. [Monero Network Simulation Tool](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/589) 16:14:17 against. because that would help monero and it's bad to help monero 16:14:20 Rucknium has been bringing this proposal up at MRL meetings (much thanks) 16:14:34 i dont like the AI. 16:15:01 he has since left a supportive comment here https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/589#note_30729 16:16:09 admittedly the code isn't ready to be released but in keeping with ccs rules the work was opened @ https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/commits/main/ 16:16:28 but uhm yeah 16:17:04 AI usage should be, at the very least, clearly disclosed in proposals 16:19:05 Hackerone is looking to adopt a "must disclose" policy for h1 reports regarding ai. And if takes you 1/10th of the effort to copy and paste barely-functioning slop as to write code, i think that should effect the value (cost) proposition 16:20:59 I honestly think whats gonna happen is that people are gonna refine their disclosure to not look AI, not disclose it, and continue with the original price. This rule only works with complete idiots 16:21:11 Anyway, i'm a little fed up with the tonnes of AI submissions everywhere 16:21:25 Its hard to refine if you cant write the code lol 16:21:39 yeah, only works on idiots 16:21:53 hm 16:22:05 if you can write the code, ai assistance isnt necessarily a bad thing 16:23:05 and if you dont disclose AI but are caught using it, you forfeit your bounty (for h1) 16:23:12 LLM could in ***theory*** be used to find vulns, doesn't mean the person behind can't be the one writing the exploit 16:23:15 So, its in your best interests to not be a liar 16:23:49 It doesn't ban AI, it penalized wasting peoples time 16:23:56 rule only work for unverified llm slop that happens to work (will never happen) 16:24:15 If it doesnt work, theres no reward anyway 16:25:10 my point is, this rule will almost never going to be applied because llm will never pull up a working exploit, and people writing the exploit can write code therefore you won't see its ai 16:25:30 but why not let's add it just in case 16:25:32 LLM usage rules can be created. 16:25:35 but gingers' proposal here, not hacker1 rules D: 16:25:49 true sorry 16:26:56 Yeah and just bcuz its ginger i dont think special treatment. Its not financially sensitive code (like monero or haveno etc) but the heavy leaning on ai wasnt disclosed 16:27:05 the source is there, the proposal is up for feedback, it has 4 updoots. i do not support this as it would set a bad precedent sadly. but thats just me. 16:27:42 perhaps the AI stuff is just playing around and it'll all be refined later and there will be no issues, vibing, learning, refining by hand method 16:28:12 ginger deserves special treatement (i'm corrupted) 16:28:38 lets move on to try and cover everyones proposals 16:28:43 nobody except for selsta deserves special treatment (because selsta is the original LLM) 16:28:43 more seriously, i've no issues with him using llm slop, it will very quick show its limitations 16:28:56 Issues are with funding LLM slop 16:28:59 💯. 16:29:02 b. [hinto-janai full-time development (3 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/591) 16:29:23 Please 16:29:26 I don't wanna eat raw onions 16:29:29 is boog900 ok? no feedback yet 16:29:30 merge it 16:29:41 he is 16:30:49 cherry on top for boog900s feedback, lets move on 16:31:05 c. [acx Monfluo maintenance and further development 2025Q3](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/592) 16:31:42 acx has tried to stab me in the bathroom but otherwise i think it's a merge 16:32:03 +1, good wallet, good progress 16:32:08 +1 16:32:48 d. [Revuo Monero Maintenance (2025 Q3)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/593) 16:33:20 don't merge because revuo is an unmitigated success and i'm tired of seeing rottenwheel winning 16:33:42 (+1) 16:34:12 merge+1,revuo is very useful! 16:35:14 e. [vtnerd 2025 Q3 Proposal](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/594) 16:35:28 +1 16:35:34 +1 16:35:51 Still need some reviews for his sock5 pr 16:36:13 +1 16:36:26 ofrnxmr im tired 16:36:28 hinto boog900 review 9443 plz 16:36:30 f. [Multisig GUI wizard](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/595) 16:36:52 this PR has gone through at least 4 different small edits and then review restart 16:36:55

Hello, I proposed this one. Any questions please ask 16:37:07 As great as the title sounds, i think this is not a well thought out as the title sounds 16:37:09 hello, thanks for joining 16:37:28 Tob tried this for feather, and concluded "fk this, wait for fcmp" 16:37:49 relying on tor for multisig setup is not advised afaict 16:38:11 why? 16:38:16

why? 16:38:46 Spirobel is doing browser wallet with multisig using frost or w/e 16:39:00 relying on any anon network for sending messages over da internet? what if its being ddosd 16:39:01

Already did some elementary prototype -- should work fine 16:39:22 vibe coding multisig is nack by me too 16:39:31 then its being ddosd? 16:39:52 good question 16:40:03 will the wizard be byzantine fault proof 16:40:09 A question:Do we really need a wallet like this? 16:41:33

users will have their own onion addresses. If one happens to be ddosd then they can each update the address so long they inform their peers -- but in any case, the use case of this wallet I believe is sound 16:42:34

For ecommerce, producing multisigs in safe way in your machine for non-techincal people, I think we don't have this yet 16:42:59 Uh,yes 16:43:23 two letters, infinite pain 16:43:37 Uh,yes.So I need to think carefully, should I support it? 16:43:50 are there any other technologies with a higher CIA (Confidentiality, Integrity, and Availability) score? doesn't bsx use some special thing? if relying on tor is fine, id then wonder about creating a wallet around wallet-rpc, rather than integrating multisig into an existing, more established wallet 16:43:58 What does your multi platform mean 16:44:37 Spirobel's browser wallet (frost, TBD), xmrbazaar (live), and haveno (live) all use multisig. Im solid on my "-1, wait for fcmp, browser wallet, frost. And nack vibe coding wallets" 16:44:46

Linux, macOs, Windows gui 16:45:00 Can I use it at the supermarket near my home (Android payment machine)? 16:45:13

Your comment about "vibe coding" is not fair 16:45:17 It's just a question, you must adapt to Android 16:45:33 Onion balance is great paired with PoW on HS, almost indestructible, with not much cost, you’d really have to take the whole the tor network down lol 16:45:45 no 16:45:47 have we seen any open source material from your work freespirit-14 16:45:52 i just have to take down the 3 rdv points 16:45:56 It's just a question, you must adapt to Android.I think 16:46:02 that i have access by reading the hs descriptor 16:46:07 Requires meticulous config though 16:46:32

No 16:46:45 Well let’s play a game? I’ll spin up a simple hidden service website and you take it down then 16:47:07 if vibe coding is a concern, seeing evidence of your skills on a similar project could squash them 16:47:12 sorry my name isn't DKRP 16:47:22 i don't have the budget 16:47:30 nor the willing 16:47:45 syntheticbird use the zeroday to prove him wrong 16:47:47 Right 16:47:51

Understandable, however I don't have any open souce to show for evidence 16:48:25 don't talk publicly about it please 16:48:35 0-day and haven’t reported it tor core? 16:48:37 a caveat to that is - we've had someone open source work which is clearly vibe coded and seemingly its not the end of the world. so theres that :) 16:48:54 RustyDev im joking :) 16:48:57 trocador and many other services get RIP'd via their onions 16:49:22 They have extra ddos protections as a result. onion pow isnt a panacea and doesnt work when under a real attack 16:49:32 this is a joke, everything is ok 16:49:40 it's not a joke 16:49:56 I'm deliberately holding a tor core zeroday 16:49:58 Also, the entire onion network can be ddosed at once. Not specific to targetting a single onion 16:49:58 i mean im sorry for leaking this* ok sooooo 16:50:14 do we need a multisig convenient gui - yes 16:50:33 isnt that what fcmp + frost is for 16:50:56 we're digressing a lot today. I BLAME MOSQUITOES 16:51:15 credit where credit is due: 2 projects relying on monero-wallet-rpc and multisig have been created by freespirit-14 16:51:27 we're sorry you had to deal with wallet rpc 16:51:49

haha well :) 16:52:06 any more input on this? its open for feedback :) 16:52:39 You want a multisig GUI 16:53:20 I have some markdown in my notepad for it 16:53:25 Rust of course 16:53:39

One important point -- the first iteration will be built with tor binaries and monero-rpc, so the underlying tech should be very easy to verify and trust 16:53:58 Next 16:54:04 indeed, one main advantage 16:54:18 thanks for attending freespirit-14 16:54:22 g. [MoneroOS Resurrection](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/596) 16:54:45 <4rkal:monero.social> Here to answer any questions etc 16:55:05 Why not gentoo 16:55:08 Shared in monero-mining and they didnt seem to be in favor 16:55:10 /jk 16:55:41 What needs to be done where a decent amount of cash is involved 16:55:44 I’m hungry 16:55:57 Xmrfans 16:56:05 ofrnxmr monero-mining is full of some of the most autistic miners you can find. MoneroOS is specifically geared towards beginners 16:56:09 Impossible 16:56:14 i scrolled through r/moneromining for 30 ish seconds and browsed youtube for a bit and foud a few people with cpu mining (monero) farms 16:56:18 I can’t develop fans for you 16:56:30 Isn't this essentially Linux to go with Xmrig installed? 16:56:46 yes 16:56:58 not sure why 4rkal hasnt reached out. at this point we are guessing if the idea is needed and better than whats being done currently? 16:57:00 <4rkal:monero.social> It's plug and play mining, so yeah kind of 16:57:14 <17lifers:matrix.org> synthethicbird you're gonna hate me then ._. 16:57:26 Its not really tuned for beginnera if you still have to install the os (same as installing on any drive), and setup xmrig / p2pool etc 16:57:33 To be honest, brother, I can do it myself. 16:57:40 To be honest, bro, I can do it myself. 16:57:51 I hardly see who would use moneroOS, because of ratio equipement/expertise but who am i to judge. I don't see any blocker to this proposal, could be cool. +1 16:57:58 <17lifers:matrix.org> market mining towards tiktok audience 16:58:24 <17lifers:matrix.org> "heyy this is how i earn thousands of dollars a month, it's with this shiny usb stick that when inserted prints infinite money" 16:58:33 <4rkal:monero.social> That's why there is a webui. Just select type of mining, enter info and start mining, if json is too scary 16:58:37 #moneroOS:matrix.org has a matrix room, hi 17lifers (Ryan) , i noticed you joined this room on June29th, how did you hear about it? 16:58:52 Id this is a real idea, should write the project and put it on usb sticks and sell them 🤷‍♂️ 16:59:09 lmao 16:59:11 Winrar-tier business model 16:59:22 <4rkal:monero.social> MoneroOS was featured on monerotalk a while back. So might be from there 16:59:45 leading the witness your honour 16:59:51 You don't plan to develop any other different features: 'Centralized control panel, comprehensive drivers...' 16:59:56 You don't plan to develop any other different features: 'Centralized control panel, comprehensive drivers...'? 16:59:59 <17lifers:matrix.org> "how did you hear about it" i join whatever room is linked in monero/monero offtopic, and i hunt matrixrooms.info for monero related rooms 17:00:01 comprehensive drivers? 17:00:05 what is that supposed to mean? 17:00:29 Adapt to core display (just kidding) 17:00:45 armv7,= 17:00:52 <17lifers:matrix.org> mining optimized kernel! 17:01:09 <4rkal:monero.social> In the Todo ; ) 17:01:19 armv7,=plus 17:01:27 <4rkal:monero.social> Although will probably not make a huge difference 17:01:29 good. 17:01:31 Kernel optimization is pathetically negligible 17:01:37 <4rkal:monero.social> Or so I've been told 17:01:54 <17lifers:matrix.org> and dont use systemd, its a THICC init system 17:01:55 Unless you own a huge botnet 17:02:08 It can make mining easier. Design a good GUI 17:02:15 <17lifers:matrix.org> surely moneroOS cant get hacked lmao 17:02:26 I'm very afraid to inform you that you do not know the consequences of such goal 17:02:34 next 17:02:39 phishers love any excuse 17:02:57 thanks for the feedback and for attending 4rkal 17:03:04 Have a cup of tea please plowsof 17:03:09 1 more proposal to cover 17:03:21