00:28:30 What do you mean by "the url for the json file"? 01:49:52 Get in touch with this platform for greatness you’ll definitely thank me later 01:49:53 ℹ️❤️. 01:49:55 👇👇👇👇👇 01:49:57 https://t.me/+zEFPK-AiVFEyZDM0 01:57:00 naughty teebuthot. 02:25:10 <321bob321:monero.social> At least make it e2ee scam 07:57:48 <4rkal:monero.social> The MoneroOS CCS proposal has gotten very positive feedback on Reddit! 07:58:03 <4rkal:monero.social> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/s/B9AgZEBv0o 08:03:07 i wanted to check if this is real feedback 08:03:11 i want to go back 08:03:20 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/TdbwWPALFdpVrDrrQjhNTtAt 08:06:34 <321bob321:monero.social> sex is getting close 08:09:01 Nore upvotes than https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1kh922d/haveno_cross_platform_app/ , look great so far 08:28:14 <4rkal:monero.social> Some comments did look a bit like AI 08:29:11 <4rkal:monero.social> Although i don't know why they would do that 08:31:10 <4rkal:monero.social> Maybe it's just good old karma farming 08:53:41 wth is Zcash 2.0? 08:53:43 https://x.com/genzcash/status/1944327574496436320?utm_source=tldrcrypto 08:53:50 https://x.com/genzcash/status/1944327574496436320 08:53:56 ^^ without the tracking link 08:54:42 https://seanbowe.com/blog/tachyon-scaling-zcash-oblivious-synchronization/ 10:28:54 there is also this talk from a while back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3JCgi3kiU 10:33:54 and before that the interaction with toly https://x.com/Lightspeedpodhq/status/1874518500988858435 10:40:05 and another blog post: https://seanbowe.com/blog/tachyaction-at-a-distance/ 10:42:34 at a high level view this is about reducing the state that is needed to verify transactions. currently it is ever growing and this update makes it so that this is not the case anymore 10:47:20 in solana there is a distinction between putting data into the state vs into the ledger. Putting data into the state is relatively expensive, but it can be reclaimed. This is because the memory requirements for the validators are downstream from the global network state. (as they need to keep it in memory to verify transactions) In a system like monero, zcash or bitcoin with every 10:47:21 transaction the global network state grows as the utxos set grows, the nullifier set grows, the key image set grows. 10:49:58 in an account based system like solana the global network state does not necessarily grow with each transaction. In the most common case the state just changes. One account gets an amount deducted and another one gets the same amount credited. 11:07:27 this "alpha" has been front run by "KOLs" https://x.com/0xMert_/status/1944014788633538789 that think it gives them an edge. Zcash is a decades old farm. It is a gamble to think that any of this value will be captured by the average zcash shrimp. 11:13:03 The realization that you can make a distinction between state and ledger ( transaction history) and then crank up the bandwidth and reduce the latency of the consensus is very positive. There is no reason why Monero couldn't benefit from this down the line. 11:21:02 to make it very clear: right now state and ledger are intermingled in monero, zcash, bitcoin because every transaction introduces state growth. Once these two concepts are separated the growth of the ledger ( transaction history) is not the bottleneck for scaling anymore. The limit is then how far bandwidth and latency of the consensus can be pushed without affecting decentralizat 11:21:03 ion (so participants are not forced to host nodes in data centers and can keep using home connections) 11:34:48 <321bob321:monero.social> 👀 13:05:02 <321bob321:monero.social> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/388 13:05:03 <321bob321:monero.social> Are people looking at this for their apps? 13:13:32 Define "people" 13:13:50 As of yet? not any publicly 13:41:07 I've been playing around with it, but nothing public yet 16:42:27 spirobel: IMHO, Bitcoin and similar transparent UTXO coins don't have indefinite state growth. IMHO, the state of these coins is the UTXO set, not the whole transaction set. Once the coins are spent, you can forget about the transaction when it comes to "state". 16:42:29 I'll go further: in normal use as p2p electronic cash, the state of a UTXO blockchain should grow linearly with the number of users instead of growing with time indefinitely. When users are spending and receiving as true p2p cash, the UTXOs in their wallets should consolidate regularly. Since the number of possible users on the planet aren't growing at a fast rate, the UTXO state 16:42:31 could just plateau when adoption plateaus. 16:43:07 But coins like Monero and Zcash do have indefinite state growth, at least in their current protocols. 17:26:49 tell that to mike in space. the state is only reduced if wallet implementations are nice about it. 17:31:22 until the beginning of this year Zcash was unaware of this perspective. Only after they started mingling with solana people these ideas started to emerge. You can watch the talk by sean from for 4 months ago. he mentioned he wrote up these ideas in the last few weeks. also compare that to the podcast in january. Back then they were still completely clueless and just brainstorming 17:31:39 until the beginning of this year Zcash was unaware of this perspective. Only after they started mingling with solana people these ideas started to emerge. You can watch the talk by sean from 4 months ago. he mentioned he wrote up these ideas in the last few weeks. also compare that to the podcast in january. Back then they were still completely clueless and just brainstorming 17:33:00 (mike in space is the person behind Bitcoin stamps which uses bitcoin outputs to store jpegs in an unprunable way) 17:33:47 (mike in space is the person behind Bitcoin stamps which uses bitcoin outputs to store jpegs) 17:48:46 By the same logic, nothing is stopping anyone from making one-time-use accounts on account-based ledgers. 17:49:42 Except for Ripple, which had a specific economic disincentive for that. Maybe other coins had the same idea (which creates bad UX, arguably.) 17:53:09 Zcash probably realized the problem before, but didn't have a solution. Or devising a solution wasn't a top priority. 17:54:13 And it's not a top priority for Monero now. It could become a top priority in the near or far future, or never, 18:11:05 There was a recent paper & talk about how to "bury" state in decoy-based coins. You can use a partitioning rule for decoy selection, i.e. set up a range of `N` transaction outputs. Then, eventually all `N` will be spent. Then you can treat the whole set as a spent transaction output and treat it like you can treat spent outputs in bitcoin. 18:12:18 IMHO, this idea is only theoretically interesting because it can easily be broken by a malicious party that refuses to spend at least one output in each of the partitioned sets. Or even just ordinary users who don't spend all their outputs. 18:16:29 This one: François-Xavier Wicht (2025) "Toxic Decoys: A Path to Scaling Privacy-Preserving Cryptocurrencies" paper: https://eprint.iacr.org/2025/1124.pdf MoneroKon talk: https://cfp.twed.org/mk5/talk/AKX8ZU/ 18:16:46 & Christian Cachin 18:17:35 They updated the paper recently. I notice it has a section about attack resistance. Maybe they have figure out solutions to the problem ^ 18:19:31 Ah, nice. They cited my black marble attack paper :D 18:20:25 > Our estimation approach can be compared with the analysis presented by Rucknium [Ruc24]. That study applies a slightly more sophisticated metric to estimate corruption levels during the attack, but our approach yields a roughly similar number of corrupted outputs. Our estimation metric is also lightweight, which aligns with an on-chain dynamic adjustment of k. 18:21:20 My metric is "slightly more sophisticated" 🥹 18:37:30 no there is a specific disincentive for that. You can compare the cost of minting compressed NFTs (which store information on the ledger instead of in the state) vs normal NFTs that open an account for the NFT https://solana.com/news/state-compression-compressed-nfts-solana 18:43:18 look closely at the conversation from January that i linked before: https://x.com/Lightspeedpodhq/status/1874518500988858435 and then the talk from 4 months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3JCgi3kiU There is a specific way of thought about scaling that is prevalent in solana. The progression that the zcash people made is a direct result from that. 18:48:31

Hello all, 18:48:33

My CCS proposal was discussed over the weekend and early this week among different groups, and on net, I see that it will not be supported for CCS, mostly because the multisig outlook is changing. 18:48:35

Can you all give some feedback if it makes sense to reduce the funding from 300XMR to 50XMR? Should this make it pass the cut for CCS? 18:48:37

The basis for the 300XMR was basically my opportunity cost for doing this and nothing else. I see that there is no appetite for that investment. But in any case I continue to think this is a much needed tool to support monero adoption, even on the back of old monero-rpc multisig. 18:48:39

Visibility from CCS would go a long way to help. 18:48:41

Many thanks 18:48:43

https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/595 18:48:45

CC: plowsof: 18:51:35 here is the exact timestamp where sean and toly talk about this https://youtu.be/DL3YbMTdTtI?t=1021 you can see sean mention the nullifier set shortly afterwards so the proof is right there. no need to speculate