00:47:38 <3​21bob321:monero.social> CCS for botnet farming ? 01:37:39 pretty much impossible to beat botnets 01:38:20 but thats what we get being cpu friendly 01:40:34 economically unviable when you are mining along with botnets 01:43:09 Thats what she said 01:43:28 No lol 01:43:57 The security budget is 140k/mth. Thats what you get for having a small community of larpers 🙃 01:45:48 Calculate your Hardware investment for 5gh/s 01:46:02 i did before, let me pull up my numbers 01:46:37 Also calculate ROI with current price 01:46:45 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/DTuyvqhHHphmzshhxDiKOfII 01:47:17 This is 2-3 years old,when a ryzen 3900 rig would cost ~1000 to build 01:47:55 bitcoin used 223x more power and, iirc, was also about 250x more expensive per coin 01:47:58 and that was for 2.5gh/s 01:48:26 Mhm. Double the numbers and halve the price for the rig 01:48:34 bcoz it has price security, it doesnt compete with botnets 01:48:41 there is a level playing field 01:48:56 now calculate your ROI 01:49:14 The ROI is based on the cost of xmr 01:49:37 The energy costs of monero, assuming no botnets, is inline with the price of monero vs price of bitcoin 01:49:41 Cant blame botnets for that 01:50:02 lol go and look xmrbtc since anti-asic 01:51:18 ? 01:51:47 It was also for 215eh on btc 01:52:22 if you are investing in your hardware, you provide price support to not make it unprofitable mining your coin; with botnets is almost no cost 01:53:07 _the chart assumes there are no botnets and that every miner is paying for their electricity and hardware_ 01:53:35 yah and there was no adoption 01:53:40 We still are inline with simply being worth 250x less and doing 250x less work 01:53:58 ? We were at 2.5gh like 2 months ago 01:54:15 30ktx/day has been steady for like 4 years 01:54:19 yah botnets are adopting it 01:54:38 no sensible person will invest in mining monero 01:55:13 your math isnt mathing 01:55:15 but sure you can mine with your botnets 01:55:46 there is no price support by miners 01:55:58 This means that, assuming botnets, you can reduce the energy costs by like 80% 01:56:03 And the hardware costs 01:56:22 more like 99% 01:56:33 And then you see how much people actually spent to mine xmr, and its a pathetically low amount 01:57:08 as i said, nobody in right mind is going to buy hardware to mine xmr 01:57:32 you are competing against botnets and it will always be unprofitable 01:58:24 But lets pretend botnets dont exist. Even in a perfect world, the amount $ spent mining is in a good ratio with btc 01:58:45 Its simply that ppl eould rather do like you, and whine, instead of mine 01:59:37 but you cant pretend its not botnet friendly and there will always be a botnet dumping coins irrespective of price 01:59:45 Nobody in their right mind would mine btc if it wss 1/220th the market cap with 1/220th the adoption? 02:00:19 monero is datacenter friendly, and bitcoin is warehouse friendly, whats your point? 02:00:23 btc doesnt have other miners mining it with 1% of cost 02:01:57 if botnets disappeared today, the hashrate would drop to a few hundred megahash 02:02:40 And probability would skyrocket to unsustainable levels, leading to massive selloffs until it equalized at like $30 02:03:26 I’m still having the CMake 3.5 errors in anything related to Monero when I don’t go through and modify all the submodules 02:03:27 I’m not losing it right? 02:03:37 You are 02:03:48 What are you building 02:03:59 what branch, and on what base system 02:04:03 should have thought about that when you went anti asic 02:04:33 Currently, Townforge 02:04:35 Go buy some bitcoin and fackoff 02:04:48 we should go tari way, dual pow like someone suggested the other day & merge mine with a bigger chain 02:05:02 Like it happens often enough that I’m tempted to build CMake pre-4.0 from source and just use that instead 02:05:04 maybe TF needs upfate 02:05:27 truth is bitter 02:05:44 It’s submodules 02:05:48 nah, you just dont know how to do math 02:05:50 So maybe yeah 02:06:15 tf is based on 1834 monero, probably 02:06:20 Monero fixed cmake 3.5 issues in 18.4.1 02:06:22 I’ll try to build Monero from scratch (its a new m4 mac, haven’t tried it on it yet) 02:06:23 and you can pretend most hashrate isnt botnet 02:07:24 Who pretending? I said its like 80%(or more) 02:07:41 But also that it has 0 effect on price in relation to profitability 02:07:52 If it did, monero would be worth $40 02:08:27 they increase hashrate as price increases, why allow competion ? they undercut legit miners with zero cost 02:08:30 Botnets dont sell at their profit levels, they sell at ours 02:09:07 They dont undercut a damn thing. The price of monero would be $40 is botnets didnt add the security 02:09:22 they just sell at price what liquidity providers set, only a handful; exchange ordrebooks are empty 02:09:29 Your profit levels are only worth what it costs to produce a block 02:09:50 No botnets? Drop the price by 80% 02:09:54 lol 02:10:20 Yah if you want to turn the switch off instantly sure 02:11:22 fluffy had warned about botnets but some ppl were running after buzz words 02:11:43 fluffy launched tari with 50% randomx 02:11:54 he pretty much left after he had forseen what would happen 02:12:07 No, he left after he got arrested 02:12:09 and scaled back bcoz of botnets 02:12:15 fk u talking about 02:12:50 he was arrested a few yrs latr, he only officialy dropped out ; he was almost inactive for a long period 02:13:04 lol. 02:13:57 running webservers and dns isnt being active 02:14:00 he was passive 02:15:38 anyways all this talk has been offtopic in this 'workgroup' , hopefully some sense comes in securing the chain and dont depend on unethical botnets 02:38:15 Thank you for stating the name; the room has been glitched for at least 2 months now and I didn’t know which one it was lol 03:24:22 i mean what will fix it is the price going up 03:24:32 so someones just gotta make the NGU PR 03:29:40 i mean, didn't the last price spike precede the last hashrate spike? 04:02:41 Imho no one is mining on Qubic or taking over miners, that's not how it works. It's the operator himself. The question is how has he accumulated this much hashrate? Ofc you can buy or rent the hardware, but I only see money getting burnt, and I doubt it's a botnet. 04:05:50 took a look at 134. {{{Qualcomm’s “QSEE”}}} (((TrustZone))) [[[ Trustonic’s “Kinibi]]] doing anything involving TEE means talking like an intel sales person. I don't understand why anyone would ever consider TEE as good for anything. The trust assumptions that come with it are ridiculous. I dislike the idea that we have to buy devices that contain this tricknology. I hop 04:05:51 e for a future where semiconductor fabrication becomes more accessible and there are open source chips that are free of this garbage. 04:06:54 Its not just that I hate the technology. I hate what it stands for. The future that comes with it. 04:07:01 yeah, i think he has access to some cluster that he can use when idle. hence the weekend activity and burstiness 05:15:25 Do we have any idea of the number of actual block producers on both networks? My intuition is that the numbers may be closer than the devices ratio 05:16:07 no 05:16:40 The ratio just assumed if the device listed was 100% of the network 05:17:39 at the time, the s19 xp hyd.. was the best btc miner available, but not the most widely used 06:25:24 Just my 2 cent, but someone could easily crash the QBIC price to zero for days, it just has to absorb the orderbook for QBIC/USDT which is only on TradeOgre now at 67k$. 06:25:25 Or even better, pay TradeOgre to close QBIC/USDT trades for like a week or maybe more which would be cheaper if they would accept. 06:26:31 If they don't have a way to buy QUBIC witht he mined monero, they can't pump their price and make it profitable for the miners 09:17:57 If you drain the order book wouldn't the qbic price go up rather than down? You would need to flood it with QBIC to increase supply for the price to crash 12:19:38 [@gingeropolous:monero.social](https://matrix.to/#/@gingeropolous:monero.social) is it you or someone else "writing" the code for monetosim? 12:28:38 when it was 2.5 Gh the price was $160 12:28:39 Now the price is 2x and the hashrate is 2x 12:34:41 7950x is break even at ~12 cents per kWhr 12:34:43 as far as "dumping coins", there's not even enough emission at this point to suppress the price. yearly inflation is well under 1% 12:36:00 Does qubic stopped mining? 12:36:01 https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero 12:36:50 Should start muting ppl who show up in community to ask abt qubic 🤣 12:38:36 Does qubic stopped mining? Seems dead 12:38:50 <1​7lifers:matrix.org> qubi- 12:38:52 <1​7lifers:matrix.org> *boom* 12:39:17 Oh it started again 12:39:38 damn 12:45:58 HR increased from 2.5GH/s before the price moved 12:51:42 HR increase has been less volatile than price for sure but even at a flat price you expect hashrate to increase over time as more efficient miners come to market 13:25:07 I don't know if it "works", but this is probably the most blatant yoloing of slop ive ever seen. 1 million line commits of AI summarizing what it did, virt environments, incorrect info / hallucinations. This isnt AI assisted, its AI yolo'd, by someone who a) doesnt know how to use git b) doesnt know how to use python c) doesnt care d) all e) idek 13:25:07 i think it sets terrible precedent to fund such careless slop 13:27:20 Reminds me of this https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/4445 13:27:53 i'm learning as I go / its evolving. I wanted to get this to a clean state before showing how its going, but i was encouraged to show how its going. it'll get less sloppy as it evolves 13:28:40 are you the one making these commits? Or did you hire someone to do this? 13:29:14 sometimes the bot gets a little too into it and makes commits. 13:29:38 despite instructions not to. which is why i created a new github account for this, because i don't fully trust it obvi 13:32:23 https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/commit/82b15a3a575683d719a2cafc4f1323ec9c8293f6 13:33:28 yeah. so? 13:34:28 i don't expect people to be investigating the diffs on this. right? there's no need to. git is really just functioning as a checkpoint system for me so i can revert if things get outta hand 13:35:24 so no, this project, at the current state, is not going to have little commits that are designed for someone else to review and what have you. It's full-on make this thing work please thank you 13:35:48 thats 1.1 million lines of "wtf" 13:36:03 Maybe 10k lines are ok 13:36:25 _maybe_ 13:37:06 Is a strong work, because AI made (and noted) at least a few incorrect assumptions (such as monero default connections being 8in 64 out) 13:37:19 Or setting to log-level=4 13:37:37 Strong word* 13:38:23 > full-on make this thing work please thank you 13:38:23 yeah. Its not AI assisted. Its AI yolo'd 13:50:54 The orderbook is composed both of bids and asks, 67k $ was on the bids, so for the short position. 13:53:52 In the meanwhile i read https://x.com/cryptocomicon/status/1950035689275625756 13:53:53 His point about transaction reverting is valid, the most he cloud do with 51% is create disservice and random double spends (if even that). 13:53:55 So not as bad as other transparent chains. 14:17:40 UnwantedFondue: Not true at all. A traditional double-spend facilitated by a 51% hashpower attack assumes that the attacker reverts their own transactions. Of course, the attacker knows which txs belong to them, even if most info about txs is hidden from other observers. 14:18:37 Just read the bitcoin white paper: 14:18:54 > We consider the scenario of an attacker trying to generate an alternate chain faster than the honest chain. Even if this is accomplished, it does not throw the system open to arbitrary changes, such as creating value out of thin air or taking money that never belonged to the attacker. Nodes are not going to accept an invalid transaction as payment, and honest nodes will never ac 14:18:55 cept a block containing them. An attacker can only try to change one of his own transactions to take back money he recently spent 14:21:54 Nym nodes voted in favor of an exit policy changed to allow traffic on ports 18080, 18081, and 18089 for Monero: 14:21:55 https://governator.nym.com/proposal/prop-d0c0d398-43bd-4a6f-b008-1921b64ae4ed 14:21:57 https://forum.nym.com/t/nip-3-nym-exit-policy-update/1462