00:57:39 *wallat 00:57:59 diego ^^ 00:58:13 what? me? who's there? 01:01:41 meow 01:01:43 wallat 01:02:02 dopewallat 01:08:46 A Monero-only Stack Wallet should be named what? Comment below (and like and subscribe) 01:11:16 wutwallat 01:12:57 Overflow Wallet 01:13:17 what wallet should I use? 01:13:20 yes 01:13:27 wutwallat 01:13:38 💎 01:55:31 [@diego:cypherstack.com](https://matrix.to/#/@diego:cypherstack.com) Check DM! 04:48:18 the MRR rentals look idle right now 04:50:51 what the shit. its advertised at 15M, but its 200k. https://www.miningrigrentals.com/rigs/325185/?currency=BTC 04:51:37 zoom out a bit. 04:51:48 oh bah its not even monero 06:55:43 My general opinion on this is that you miss the point of AI in the Qubic attack. The implications for Monero have very, very little to do with AI actually. It has to do with tokenomics and social attacks. AI is only relevant as a marketing term to funnel funds into what is essentially a tokenized mining pool ponzi scheme using a strategy of "selfish" mining. If protein folding or 06:55:43 some other CPU-intensive computation problem attracted as much VC greed as AI, we wouldn't even be discussing AI. Also, people have already tried to use AI to break ring signature tracability with little to no luck. After FCMP++, it is utterly pointless at try to apply AI to constructing transaction graphs. I like the idea of AI as a gloried clippy for OPSEC tips though 12:42:08 Firstly, the published article does not refer exclusively to Qubic, but rather takes a general tone with the arrival of AI. 12:42:09 The claim that AI is “irrelevant” ignores two things: 12:42:11 𑁋AI is increasingly used in optimizing selfish-mining and adaptive attack strategies, even if Qubic itself is mostly tokenomics hype. 12:42:13 𑁋Dismissing AI’s role in tracing Monero oversimplifies—AI may not break FCMP++ today, but advances in graph neural networks or pattern recognition could still pose future risks. 12:42:15 Anyway, see this post related to my recently published article, **here is a real-world use case of AI in Monero.** 12:42:17 https://x.com/liberlion17/status/1959231502161523058 13:48:04 serious_hat.png 16:00:32 Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1257 16:00:33 greetings 16:00:54 Hi 16:01:00 Hello 16:01:30 <4rkal:monero.social> Hello hello 16:01:40 RIAT with this "No 51% attack has happened" debunking https://riat.at/qubic-attack-on-xmr-monero-no-51-attack-proven/ 16:03:06 eddie has been tracking miningrigrentals stats available via their api, rigs / hashrate available , rigs / hashrate rented and last rent price , a chart of some of that is here https://i.imgur.com/hWQUiFN.png 16:03:54 veridises' twitter account shared some FUD and apologised 😅 16:04:21 hi everyone, have something to bring up? please do 16:06:11 Yeah im looking to move the "monero defense fund" into a community initiative. I think it would work much better that way. 16:06:59 DataHoarder and sech1 have been working overtime recently 🫡 16:07:56 Hi. I am reading papers about hardening PoW and general permisionless blockchain consensus protocols. moneroconsensus.info is up and running. Since last community meeting, I added line charts on blocks mined by each mining pool. 16:08:47 yep 16:08:54 x3nu it remains unclear if renting hashes from rig rentals is effective at increasing the amount of honest hashes on the network 16:09:13 hopefully their api which eddie is tracking could prove if extra hashes are being added to the network 16:09:13 Even had to run around with open laptop while boarding a plane :D 16:09:46 thank you for your service 16:09:48 Yeah totally understood. I'd love to hear more info on that 16:10:03 sech1: twice! 16:10:06 I agree it is unclear. More investigation is a good idea. I think gingeropolous is looking at renting Amazon servers at scale. 16:10:08 yeah 16:10:14 Oh i almost forgot. Hi 16:10:39 👋 16:11:04 I do have funds still available and have been reached out to about donating more so there is interest 16:11:23 Interest doesnt mean its a good thing 16:11:48 Yeah 16:11:56 Need to ensure the hash isnt active before renting it. It seems almost all of it is active when qubic is doing their marathons 16:12:39 If the MRR rigs are mining while not rented, their pricing does not make sense to me. If they are mining while not rented, they would be wiling to switch to mining for someone else if they get just a small premium over mining for themselves. However, the premium is large. IMHO. 16:12:42 which means, were not adding any net hash to the network, and are either funding qubic or simply redistributing the hashes 16:13:27 vik of cake wallet has rented over 200mh per a tweet i read, such an amount should reflect as extra hash rate on the network otherwise, a solo miner is now earning more mining to someone elses address momentarily 😄 16:13:29 The premium swings between 0.4ltc to 0.95 16:13:39 per mh per day 16:14:07 Of course vik had to one up me 😅 16:14:46 Rucknium, when they are _not_ mining, the rates are about 0.4ltc per daily mh. When they are mining, it goes to 0.7-0.95 16:15:24 "they" = the rigs or Qubic? 16:16:20 the rigs 16:16:52 retraction on 200mh x3nu no idea where i got that number from ,,, 3MH* https://xcancel.com/vikrantnyc/status/1955693226284781980 sorry 16:17:01 It only makes sense to me that they are mining qubic during the marathons (before being rented) 16:17:57 renting them pulls the HR away from qubic, but funds the qubic miners directly at 2-3x paid in ltc or btc 16:18:26 if they are mining cubic during idle time then renting teir hashes is effective, however, these greedy miners will convert that moneys into more moneys by adding more hashes for the qubic side :D 16:18:33 I don't think they are "qubic miners", they are just mercenaries looking for profit 16:18:47 What I observed during the Qubic marathons, is that they have 1.8-2 GH/s baseline, and get more hashrate in bursts (probably rented from AWS/Google cloud/similar). They can't sustain hashrate above 2 GH/s for more than a few (6-8) hours 16:18:57 Plowsof - its nor effective if we are paying 2-3x the rates directly 16:19:13 but it makes you feel good if you donate 16:19:16 It means qubic is gaining power without having to cover bill with qubic token 16:19:30 It means monero is funding the future attacks 16:20:03 no good deed goes unpunished etc 16:20:12 Sorry. I didnt read the "however". Yes 16:20:40 infinite money glitch - until ..... 16:20:41 I think they are qubic miners 16:20:51 Otherwose, why would they be idle right now? 16:21:14 <4rkal:monero.social> Could just be botnets no? 16:21:20 turning on _during_ marathons is less helpful than increasing the difficulty 16:21:39 mining tari only? or some other randomx coin? i guess you'd have to track global hash of these other coins too,. maybe there are patterns 16:22:08 They are minibg when _not_ being rented_ during marathons. So its obg they arent being _rented_ by qubic 16:22:09 <4rkal:monero.social> That want to earn a specific amount for a short amount of time. Probably more stable income than mining to a pool (and more profitable) 16:22:34 Definitely monero.. they are only active during marathons 16:23:04 So should we only target miners active during marathons? 16:23:07 They atent mining zephyr or some other rx coin right now. they are mining rx during marathons though 16:23:28 I think we shoukd only rent _inactive_ miners 16:23:58 If youre renting active ones, youre either a) not increasing the net hash or b) youre funding qubic directly 16:25:27 Paying qubic miners 3x to "stop mining qubic" is a cure that is worse than the cancer imo 16:25:43 for FCMP++ goings on, pls do follow the no wallet left behind and MRL meetings (latest one here) https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1256 16:25:54 Yeah inactive should be prioritized. 16:26:34 Or finding ways of getting new hashrate 16:27:14 On another note: monerotime / superquantum posted on twitter and in monero-research-lab, offering developers 65xmr from vthors xmrsigner ccs. i just want it to be very clear, that ccs's arent canceled or repurposed without community discussion and approval, after working with the proposer. ccss are not bounties 16:27:54 he is banned matrix side for sharing AIDrig - a closed source xmrig miner 16:28:03 and his irc is muted here and #monero for that spam^ 16:29:28 this monstrosity https://github.com/AIDStudio/AidRig , and putting red alerts in MRL to some baseless tweet ehhh 16:29:44 News: [Monero Observer](https://www.monero.observer/) - [Revuo Monero](https://revuo-xmr.com/) 16:30:20 can move onto CCS updates unless something else to touch on? v0.18.4.2 to be tagged soon 16:30:50 if i had a penny for every anti selfish mining strategy ive seen this week i'd have at least several :) 16:30:58 18.4.2 probably today 16:31:37 tradeogre still dead, kraken is being racist to canucks i read, disabled monero deposits 16:31:49 yeah, kraken disabked deposits with no notice 16:32:00 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1mvi8tm/kraken_canada_has_just_delisted_monero/ 16:32:02 And is disabling trading on sept 2 16:32:23 💢 16:32:39 4. [CCS updates](https://ccs.getmonero.org/) 16:32:43 Coincards, operates out of canada, added fees to monero purchases, because they have to use other avenues to sell the xmr 16:33:04 thank you for sharing, i had no idea 16:33:11 Personally, since all of these services typically dump the xmr on a cex 16:33:15 We have an update on the btcpay side when ready 16:33:26 pls do share deverickapollo 16:33:29 I started to swap the xmr our before buying cards 16:34:21 Deverick, floors yours. I'll shut up now 16:34:52 We completed our refactor on the dockerfile to handle those permission issues we’ve seen. Nicolas merged this week and we are finishing testing. All looks good there. 16:35:52 We have a quick PR open on the ccs adding those support channels at your request plowsof - there was a build failure on your pipeline. Lmk if I need to action on anything there 16:36:06 napoly can comment on some vendor support he’s been providing. 16:36:20 the support links shld be added to the proposal when luigi can handle merges next, do not worry about pipelines for none ccs proposals 16:36:46 thanks for the update and progress 💪 16:36:53 We’re moving onto migrating away from wallet file to viewkey now. All work from m1 should be complete from our end. Will need to provide some methods for migrating existing users. 16:36:55 yeah.. i'm in touch with DarkPrague.. but the response is slow so far 16:37:08 support links @ https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/606/diffs 16:37:58 right lets touch on the open ideas 16:38:01 a. [hinto-janai full-time development (3 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/591) 16:38:17 rates where changed later, just wating for luigi to merge when available 16:39:04 https://ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required/ , the general fund contirbuted to vtnerds only 27~ as that was all that bF had on hand accessible 16:39:24 e. [j-berman full-time development (4 months)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/600) 16:39:25 f. [jefro256 full-time development 2025Q3](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/602) 16:39:52 new* proposals , to be merged xD 16:39:54 I can answer if anyone has questions about my CCS 16:40:56 <4rkal:monero.social> I’m also here to answer any questions regarding MoneroOS 16:41:28 4rkal will circle back 16:41:34 thank you 16:42:38 I can put a USB with HiveOS and start mining as well. Why we need MoneroOS? 16:42:39 jeffro256: You misspelled your name in the proposal title. 16:42:51 ah damn lol 16:43:31 jeffro256: have you had any interest from hardware wallet manufacturers yet? will the existing low powered devices still work with FCMP++ , iirc the device will not have to do much heavy lifting still - that can be offloaded to the device with the view wallet? 16:43:48 Or MMP OS.. don't know if RaveOS also has compatibility with MONERO 16:43:52 +1 for berman256 16:43:59 jeffro256: How many/which hardware manufacturers are you targeting for your outreach and support? 16:44:22 <4rkal:monero.social> Not sure what hiveOS is but MoneroOS will be a fully open source live OS specifically designed and optimized for mining monero 16:44:37 software wallets that use wallet2_api shouldnt have to do much, if anything, to switch onto fcmp 16:44:41 actually im against because jeffro is a significant developer and would help monero survive, but i want monero to die so no 16:44:57 <4rkal:monero.social> MMPOS seems to be paid and you have to purchase credits after some point 16:45:19 4rkal maybe research the competition 16:45:24 and jberman 16:45:31 jeffro and jberman 16:45:35 surely theyre doing something good 16:45:39 im against the two 16:46:32 while awaiting jeffros response, can move back onto 16:46:35 b. [MoneroOS Resurrection](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/596) 16:46:44 from 4rkal 16:46:56 I haven't aggressively reached out yet, tbh. But yes, existing low powered devices will absolutely work FCMP++. I don't know of an existing general-purpise hardware wallet on the market right now which can't easily prove SA/L proofs. 16:47:08 Solution in search of a problem, imo. 16:47:18 <4rkal:monero.social> This proposal has been pending for quite a while now. With the support it has gotten on Reddit and all the Qubic drama (to which it provides somewhat of a solution) I don’t see why it shouldn’t be merged 16:47:28 I would have to check, but SA/L may use less memory than current ring signatures 16:47:48 moneroos isnt going to create 500mh of new monero miners 16:48:03 And reddit isnt a good measuring stick for anything, really 16:48:36 Doing FCMPs on-device is a bit trickier, I don't have the stats for that, but it's also not as useful if the hot device is inititing the transaction proposal since they will know the true spend and there's not really a point to that device not doing it 16:48:41 the reddit thread https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1lzi7g4/moneroos_resurrection/ 16:49:07 Ledger, Trezor, Keystone at the moment 16:49:46 A lot of comments with no responses 16:50:01 maybe it would effect the DIY offline signers like ANON+NERO and CUPCAKE.. FeatherWallet - 16:50:14 I dont think so 🤔 16:50:23 sizes of unsigned tx in FCMP++ which have to be transferred via the animated QR? 16:50:48 maybe its the same size or a bit bigger 🤷 🙏 16:50:55 We can test this now, probably 16:51:14 Just need one of these wallet users to build against fcmp branch 16:51:21 Wallet devs* 16:51:38 This is a good question, I should check the sizes. You can test with: https://github.com/seraphis-migration/monero/pull/52 which already implements hot/cold wallets in FCMP++ 16:51:53 tobtoht had already played around with fcmp++ in feather a while ago 16:52:34 An signed FCMP++ tx without membership proofs (what's transferred from the cold wallet to the hot wallet) is going to be smaller than a CLSAG tx 16:52:47 nice 16:53:42 will be going over the hour a bit , lets discuss the others 16:53:43 c. [[hbs] EVM Atomic Swaps](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/597) 16:53:56 Available to answer questions 16:54:03 hbs updated this proposal recently https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/597#note_31372 16:54:06 <4rkal:monero.social> We’ve already been through what MoneroOS solves on previous meetings. I’m sure you can find the logs for that 16:54:28 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/597/diffs?diff_id=9484&start_sha=f3de564ddaa5e9b95c9f8ed7ffc94e7db5935f41 16:54:34 I was there 16:55:02 <4rkal:monero.social> *sorry if that came off a bit mean 16:55:27 No need to apologize 16:55:47 The idea is not bad, but to be honest, 40XMR for an OS, that already we can find "for free" like HiveOS and with support of GPUs. I don't sure if we need to pay for it. 16:55:59 And maybe we change to a PoS 16:56:19 🤣 16:56:21 <4rkal:monero.social> Why would you need GPU support for XMR? 16:56:36 <4rkal:monero.social> MoneroValidatorOS 16:56:46 <4rkal:monero.social> Soon ™️ 16:58:03 PXE support would be great 16:58:05 Turn on the MoneroOS VM. 16:58:07 Turn on all the miners and they just boot and start to mine, no need to move usb key around or install ssd in them 16:58:56 When you build a GPU rig (yes, you can still mine in some regions), you need a motherboard and a CPU. That's when you take advantage of the opportunity to mine GPU + CPU.Well, if the USB MoneroOS is not to be use "as a hacker tool" to put in any device 😅 16:58:59 hbs the monero wallet side of things - this is for the user to handle (sending of transactions?) 17:00:06 The Monero side is indeed handled by the user, the CLI (and the UI subject of the CCS) provides a QR Code to configure a view only wallet in the first phase, then a full wallet in the last stage of settlement, and a payment URL for the XMR side to send the required amount. 17:00:26 <4rkal:monero.social> Is that some sort of network booting? 17:00:31 So a Browser and a Monero wallet (mobile or desktop) are the only required pieces of software 17:00:44 Yes 17:00:56 spirobel can fix this so its all in the browser ? ^ but not ready yet 17:01:37 whats hiveos, whats pxe, where do i get an xmrig config 17:01:39 That could be a possible option in the future, to be studied later I guess 17:01:54 <4rkal:monero.social> So all machines boot to a specific image on the network? How does storage work there? I mean for stuff like xmrig.json etc 17:02:06 load kernel and initrd from tftp (information about that is to be provided by the dhcp server) 17:02:07 as for mining, the miners only need xmrig really so you can make a mini environement in the initramfs, that contain the xmrig and parameter so it just start to mine from the configured p2pool or whatever 17:02:51 the dhcp server -could- be a moneroNodo attatched to a network switch, or a pi, or one of those open source WRT router thingies 17:03:19 You can use NFS for storage, you can also have extra configuration tagged with the clients NIC mac address 17:05:42 <4rkal:monero.social> That would be pretty useful for a farm like setup 17:06:09 Any other questions? 17:07:00 seems not, thank you for joining 17:07:04 d. [Monero Python Maintenance](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/598) 17:07:17 <4rkal:monero.social> Could add to the proposal if I can wrap my head around the setup 17:08:26 for monero python maintenance, lets get the monero-cpp additions upstreamed to https://github.com/woodser/monero-cpp/pulls everoddandeven 17:08:35 <4rkal:monero.social> Would it be possible to have one device boot from USB and be the master or “MoneroOS VM” 17:09:17 g. [Add proposal: MoneroSwap.ai â€” Privacy-First, Instant Monero Swap (80 XMR initial funding)](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/603) 17:09:51 close? 17:10:58 <4rkal:monero.social> You know it’s good when it contains “Global SEO strategy to increase Monero’s visibility” 17:11:11 Mergr moneroswap.slop 17:11:12