13:23:36 one customer has sent their dish back to the kitchen https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1qliaco/scam_wagyuxyz_perpetualcowhl/ 13:56:09 perhaps reschedule a meeting for next Saturday? as i've not planned one in time... got lost with weblate. 13:56:37 the recent MRL meeting + logs @ https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1330 (randomxv2 update from sech1) 13:57:35 which has just received another update today : https://gist.github.com/SChernykh/6058ecf01c929883b9d19c7eeadc8809 (shared in #monero-pow:monero.social ) 13:58:34 https://github.com/MAGICGrants/skylight-wallet new release + patch thanks to people testing in #skylight-wallet:monero.social - sgp 14:01:20 1.0.6 14:03:08 work in progress: ive put up https://translate.monerodevs.org/ (via coolify + some tweaks + email registration) @redsh4de:matrix.org is looking into translations for site and helping guide setup - i am once again re-trying the weblate -> github pull request stuff and managed to make a PR to myself https://github.com/montero-weblate/monero-site-beta/pull/1 A for effort but not quite there yet) 14:03:14 @plowsof:matrix.org: migfi5a4d4x5fupdvtxbl4azrfxtuhjogjuo63tbjekcjqfkqmgbhlid.onion:18086 onion lws server if people want to try their luck. Skylight has built-in tor if you dont already run orbot/invizible 15:07:13 after a quite busy time the CCS is quiet rn so no meeting seems fine. thx for all the other things you are doing plowsof 16:14:04 Thanks nioc 16:15:21 plowsof: youre supposed to say "youre welcome" 16:15:29 😁 20:00:45

Thanks for the discussion yesterday about OVKs. Just read it, very good arguments both sides and admit that I stared thinking they are a good idea, but now not I'm not so sure. 20:00:45

Another bad situation if OVKs are prevalent is if we suppose that Binance or whoever, convinces a good percentage of people to share their OVKs for withdrawal rules compliance or whatever. 20:00:45

Now they can build an incomplete but pretty good database that allows them to establish a panopticon. Don't know the technical details of OVKs but if A makes a 5.015631612 XMR payment at time X and B gets a 5.015631612 XMR payment at time X, then well well Sherlock. Establish this for hundreds of thousands and we have a[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/ifbd2N8KaVRCQWF6 ] 20:11:50 it is thought well to allow migrating monero to a quantum safe system with the existence of quantum opponents 20:12:15 they might as well require that you automate the proofs even if such keys do not exist 20:13:08 see discussion in #monero 20:13:36 https://gist.github.com/jeffro256/146bfd5306ea3a8a2a0ea4d660cd2243 20:13:53 this also allows a quantum opponent to not walk backwards all the way to your spend keys. 20:14:09 (within the migration context) 20:17:54 @freigeist-m:matrix.org: If this happens, this would only impact people who do choose to give up their OVKs to these platforms, right? This isn't going to impact anyone who's wise enough to not share private view keys with Binance - transparency stays opt-in, same as it always was. For people who are none the wiser, this [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/h_Gc2d8KTzdwXzk5 ] 20:17:54 In this scenario, on-chain privacy would be compromised only for those who do end up bending over for the panopticon despite the warnings - I don't think its Monero's job to prevent the user from making bad decisions IF the user insists and goes out of their way to do it. I think the benefits OVKs provide far outweigh this pot [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/h_Gc2d8KTzdwXzk5 ] 20:17:54 Additionally with decentralized services like Serai that aim to provide a good UX on par with what CEXes offer, it becomes even less of a problem imo[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/h_Gc2d8KTzdwXzk5 ] 20:30:38

That is good point. I was also thinking the political aspect as it could be a line of argumentation pushed by people interested in keeping surveillance 20:30:38

While "if there is no possible way for me to show you my balance and transfers without giving you control of the funds" then it is a bigger "political barrier" to the various authorities to demanding anything at all. 20:30:38

But if authorities push the line "come on it's only to view, no control of coins et cetera" then some bad situation can become possible.[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/_sXL2d8KMERPRENH ] 22:07:56 Funny how the last message here says you can always move the funds to another wallet and the last message in another Monero room warns not to use MWEB after withdrawing LTC because it will flag your coins 22:10:17 There is no difference between the decision to move funds to a non-transparent wallet on chains with optional privacy and on a chain with widespread optional transparency 22:12:07 This really isn't about CEXes. Think about agencies annoying merchants to implement "better AML monitoring" 22:16:24 The argument that the fact they don't ask for less powerful view keys now implies there will be no problems with more powerful view keys in the future is misleading imo. Optional transparency is a weakness that shouldn't be amplified 22:21:42 Dude monero to monero and segwit to mweb are two different things 😂 > <@just_another_day:matrix.org> Funny how the last message here says you can always move the funds to another wallet and the last message in another Monero room warns not to use MWEB after withdrawing LTC because it will flag your coins 22:23:19 Both are "transparent to non-transparent" 22:23:39 @just_another_day:matrix.org: You have no real argument, you just repeating things everyday 22:23:49 @just_another_day:matrix.org: They are not 22:23:54 The a big diff with view keys, is the agency etc would have to sync those wallets 22:24:16 and that view keys dont provide recipient addresses 22:25:14 Unless the recipient also has shared view key 22:25:34 So transparent coins allow passive voyeurism, but view keys require interactive monitoring and can see balances moving but not addresses 22:25:47 @just_another_day:matrix.org: So both don’t already know they have no privacy of that wallet 22:27:17 ovk with ring sigs would be a problem, but with fcmp i think its less controversial 22:27:31 Knowing that you don't have privacy doesn't mean that your coins won't be flagged if you decide to become private 22:28:10 @just_another_day:matrix.org: Dude, nobody is here asking for validation for chain analysis 22:28:26 @just_another_day:matrix.org: Coin flagging doesn't work after FCMP 22:28:41 Using any platform that demands you to share a view key is a user error 22:28:53 Same as using light wallets which compromise your individual privacy 22:29:06 By synchronizing on a third party server 22:29:24 It does. All wallets that haven't shared a full view key are a big "shielded pool". Coins from shielded pools are flagged 22:29:51 Make sure to use my lws server > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> migfi5a4d4x5fupdvtxbl4azrfxtuhjogjuo63tbjekcjqfkqmgbhlid.onion:18086 onion lws server if people want to try their luck. Skylight has built-in tor if you dont already run orbot/invizible 22:30:04 I don't really understand why this concept is difficult to grasp 22:30:06 @just_another_day:matrix.org: This assumes that all wallet providers will just instantly keel over and start sharing view keys to everyone who asks 22:30:27 @just_another_day:matrix.org: Your concept is to stop progress 22:30:41 No 22:30:42 @redsh4de:matrix.org: I wouldnt be surprised if EU told wallet devs they had to collect em 22:30:57 I fully support FCMP++ privacy improvements 22:31:07 on a side-topic, that monero.one wallet guy is a thief 22:31:16 @just_another_day:matrix.org: Go write a essay somewhere and post a link here 22:31:34 Vibe coded a UI and put it on stolen backend code 22:31:57 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: until now the regulations have always been centric towards centralized providers - regulating FOSS development falls in the same bucket as regulating encryption which can be argued it being a free speech violation 22:32:41 @redsh4de:matrix.org: Eu doesnt care about individual countries soveriognty or freedoms 22:32:49 You'll own nothing and be happy 22:33:37 @elongated:matrix.org: I mean... I literally have brought attention to this question by my Reddit post. But it's a good idea to write a new essay that includes some points from my comments 22:33:46 Don’t fuel the fire > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I wouldnt be surprised if EU told wallet devs they had to collect em 22:34:20 Not the AI generated post, but the original one linked in it 22:34:43 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1qhh50x/is_optional_transparency_good_for_monero 22:34:58 @just_another_day:matrix.org: Blog post not a Reddit post, which would be more fud than actual concern 22:35:23 Is there a difference? 22:35:29 Should I write on GitHub? 22:36:27 be glad you're not subject to The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA) - No decryption keys? Off to Jail 22:38:20 with that attitude elongated how will we ever become top 1% poster on reddit 22:44:51 i dont register new nyms for fun - i have targets to hit