14:41:25 <br-m> <4rkal> Interesting recent experience. While this wasn't on retoswap it's something that can happen there too.
14:41:35 <br-m> <4rkal> https://4rkal.com/posts/p2p-2k/ 
15:16:15 <br-m> <hbs:matrix.org> @4rkal: p2p can be 100% safe for crypto-crypro when using atomic swaps, what poses problems is when fiat is involved
15:24:26 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> Yeah. Fiat can be ok, but only like safe payment method (cash). Most of the other things can be reverted.
15:24:27 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> For cash method the only thing the scammer can try to do is to get me to release the coins before he "send" the money
15:25:14 <br-m> <4rkal> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Could send some legit looking counterfeit though? Should always check for that too probably
15:27:12 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, well, the ATM dont usually distribute counterfeit.
15:28:42 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> For slower cash by mail sure, you have to verify them. But at least the scammer can't try to do the classic revert transaction trick.
15:29:49 <br-m> <4rkal> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Yeah
15:31:41 <br-m> <4rkal> @hbs:matrix.org: Could receive tainted coins though no?
15:32:31 <br-m> <hbs:matrix.org> @4rkal: Depends on the atomic swap, in MoneroSwap (EVM based) you know the EOA of your counterparty so you can run AML like checks ahead of proceeding with the swap
15:33:12 <br-m> <4rkal> What’s moneroswap?
15:47:03 <br-m> <r4v3r23> @ravfx:xmr.mx: its really a bitch trying to swap monero for non-cash fiat
15:47:12 <br-m> <r4v3r23> very high fees
15:48:38 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> It's normal to ask for higher fees, to cover for the occasional scammer that manage to get you.
15:48:38 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> I remember back in the old scampal days, the norm was 10 to 15%
15:49:54 <br-m> <hbs:matrix.org> @4rkal: https://moneroswap.eth.limo/
16:08:22 <br-m> <r4v3r23> @ravfx:xmr.mx: since xmr is mostly delisted, dealers are taking higher fees to do the trade
16:14:29 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> Sure, I been doing the thing since 2015 (p2p).
16:14:29 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> Higher fee for safe options is because not enough traders. Else its because the payment method un insafe. So far from my observation.
16:14:29 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> Even bitcorn can have hefty 10% even if its available on all exchanges
16:15:08 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> That scampal example I mentionned, that was for bitcoin
16:15:52 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> I never considered looking for scammy payment method for monero considering cash is available in my loc.
16:20:28 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> The more market participants, the less the premium you pay. P2p platforms have a tendencies of lacking traders.
16:21:10 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> No wonder the only trader on haveno chage 10%. Its the only maker in the house.
16:48:13 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @4rkal: You can receive tainted coins from any swapper that doesnt perform aml checks, including centralized ones
22:38:02 <br-m> <actuallymisty:matrix.org> How does one start with monero
22:41:36 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> download a wallet (getmonero.org/downloads), acquire some monero (getmonero.org/community/merchants), then spend it (monerica.com xmrbazaar.com) or donate it (ccs.getmonero.org bounties.monero.social kuno.anne.media)
22:42:40 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> smh at element's trash url detection