00:06:25 <321bob321> Doesnt recanman do management of the selfhosted parts of kon ? 00:06:42 <321bob321> @siren:kernal.eu: Ptsd 00:36:39 @321bob321: He has been missing for like half a year. 01:31:01 <321bob321> Rug pulled 03:04:05 sgp_: “Monero Core, through the Monero Distribution Corporation (a Delaware for-profit) owns the “Monero” trademark.” <—- were more directors added to this LLC? Last I checked it was only Ric. 03:07:59 “can't find 5 other active members to serve in board capacity” <—- wow, monero people don’t want to be on the board of a nonprofit run by a blockchain surveillance dude? i’m shocked 03:46:25 how can anyone own the trademark 03:46:30 no one owns the bitcoin trademark and that's why it's great 04:02:04 exactly. Ric decided to squat on it to "protect it". then he bailed with 867+ XMR and now sgp is parroting nonsense as usual 04:02:58 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/730 04:15:35 btw a nonprofit holds no benefit over a simple LLC for the purpose of controlling a web domain, since no money is going to be flowing through it 05:10:20 his excuses in that thread are some of the worst sbf tier bs i've seen 05:37:20 <321bob321> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: Craig wright 06:19:54 he's not even idling in here anymore, lol. just bailed with a community wallet and a trademark in his pocket. 07:59:52 wtf, when did this theft happen? > exactly. Ric decided to squat on it to "protect it". then he bailed with 867+ XMR and now sgp is parroting nonsense as usual 08:00:04 And who is Ric? 08:00:41 Sorry I am behind on Monero drama news 08:15:09 geonic: There is no need to jump to conclusions, we should remain calm. This Saturday at 16:00 UTC, the future of MonerKon will be decided by a vote, with AJS promising to respect the outcome. 08:15:09 While it's true that we cannot rely on promises alone, and AJS has already failed to act in good faith, show respect, or demonstrate basic adult behavior, we should wait for the vote before deciding on the community's next steps. 08:15:09 In short: wait, vote according to your own judgment, and develop a protocol to prevent something like this from happening again.[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/4qGr0pQLR3FnMGpx ] 09:10:46 is "->" the new emdash 09:50:07 👉 10:53:36 @hashido:matrix.org: We don't know what the vote is though. 10:53:36 It wasn't even clear in the first vote. I was definitely confused and others didn't seem to know what the options represented. 10:53:36 Perhaps the meeting this weekend can be used to understand what to do with the infra/domains in the interim? 11:30:05 <321bob321> I thought there was a bitwarden setup with the passwords for this ? 11:30:57 <321bob321> And doesn't TE pay for the domains and email 11:34:32 @321bob321: Wish to know this as well :D Because I assumed it was a property of TWED 11:50:52 @ajs-xmr:matrix.org: lol I just realized this. 11:50:54 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XoCdOSvbSwYRWLKwgYXdXvAd.png (image.png) 11:51:15 @comradeblin:matrix.org: That's very dishonest, I brought it up in my comment as it disturbed me quite a bit 11:51:28 (on github) 11:51:32 We (and I) certainly did NOT vote to privatize MK. I vote that in 2027, OF's LLC should be organizing it. 11:51:37 NOT the same 11:57:52 @comradeblin:matrix.org: Ruhe! You privatisation scum (just joking) 12:00:35 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/tZglErRDVVPeKCSSUQWdLkiu.png (image.png) 12:00:39 <@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/LqQaTExOtyFQcuxzMpLXLSRR.png (2026-07-08-13-00-26.png) 12:00:41 This is also not true. 12:00:50 @comradeblin:matrix.org: Ajs has not been doing anything for the past 2 MKs 12:00:51 <@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> List of enemies of the people to be executed. 12:03:29 Those of us who abstained are not on the list, but it is only a matter of time... 12:04:23 @comradeblin:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/DsldeqGiIVXHPCUkDanPqzmF.png (image.png) 12:04:32 @hashido:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/PEjFHyaqHTnEwUMcSzSoxHJy.png (image.png) 12:04:42 LMAO 12:05:12 @orangefren:matrix.org: Why was I removed from the photograph 12:05:58 Learn to vote the right way Vosto 12:07:22 @orangefren:matrix.org: Lol, I just wanted to post the same image)) 12:07:44 https://engel.4lice.com/angeltypes/about 12:07:47 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XqSyvzedHUUzaaEZOTjZzHPg.png (image.png) 12:07:53 How nice! We got MK7 dates 12:07:54 <@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: List of those who abstained from voting. 12:07:55 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/boLULmryUVeGCIquObGMEBjS.png (image.png) 12:08:10 💀 12:08:21 Who's privatizing what now? 🤣 12:08:52 <@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> The boss is working his ass off, and you, you ungrateful bastard, still have the nerve to say anything here. > <@comradeblin:matrix.org> How nice! We got MK7 dates 12:09:08 @TheFuzzStone:matrix.org: I have officially lost all my respect for ajs after seeing this site. 12:09:14 <@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: The corporate raider. 12:09:15 You wouldn’t understand. It was the for-profit option for the people 12:09:28 yo yo, what site? 12:10:20 @hashido:matrix.org: /s ? 12:10:35 the for profit "non profit" option 12:10:58 I just joined the room, and it's IRC. I have no backlog. 12:11:00 no sarcasm. 12:11:02 @joel:kernal.eu: non for profit non profit profit option 12:11:12 memes and spam 12:11:17 You can keep your semantics rage bait to yourself. 12:11:21 What site are we talking about? 12:11:45 @plowsof:matrix.org: memes ang cringing hence spam 12:12:36 @comradeblin:matrix.org: I was being ironic 😄 12:13:12 I was about to say... How dare you have your own opinion? 12:15:02 Did the boss allow you to have an opinion of your own?? 12:18:08 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/wyAvbiTbiodyQYpquQxwxmss.gif (the-punisher-no-no-no-wait-wait-wait.gif) 12:18:29 enough of the gifs/memes/spam 12:18:47 @plowsof:matrix.org: Ups! Yes my bad, sorry 12:21:22 you can keep your shitshow on all you want, you have a new reply on github. ;) https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1417#issuecomment-4914703435 13:22:43 dukenukem: https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20260708 13:38:43 I meant 5 other people total to do their own thing > “can't find 5 other active members to serve in board capacity” <—- wow, monero people don’t want to be on the board of a nonprofit run by a blockchain surveillance dude? i’m shocked 13:39:56 why haven't you or anyone else started your own monero supporting charity 13:40:17 TE counts, but only kinda since it's folding 14:04:37 None of the MoneroKon volunteers have access to infra or socials right now. Our vaultwarden password store were taken down. None of us can access servers, CDN, registrars and email. OF didn't have access to any of these platforms and the password manager. This was totally unnecessary. 14:08:38 Valuable information about past events, event planning info in mattermost are also inaccessible. 14:13:41 Very cool ajs to not only revoke access, but also outright steal information that used to be public. 14:14:02 This is the real hostile takeover if I ever saw one 14:19:10 This is unacceptable, unstable behavior. He already had admin accounts on the CDN and the pass manager. We didn't have enough privileges to revoke his access. 14:20:24 and he could have easily just backed everything up in case he was paranoid 14:20:58 instead, he has binaryFate's backing and think he can cosplay as kongod, the savior 14:21:39 for anyone who read bFs comment, i almost fell out of my chair. i didnt expect him to be so gullible 14:21:59 hopefully, at the meeting, all of this evidence is brought forward, and that he attends 14:23:04 to play devils advocate, he has supported all of the early kons via his llc, funding, and donations from the generalfund. but he doesnt seem to be keen to the fact that he's being played for a fool 14:23:47 tldr: i believe ajs is acting so aggressively, because he has core's (bF's) backing 14:24:20 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I believe this too. I anticipate them to not care about Saturday's vote. 14:24:26 which is also funny. he thinks that a single man can veto community and justify his actions 14:25:42 bF's post is also in bad taste, but again, hes just echoing what hes been told. the idea that he should claim that monerokon is a group of volunteers, cypherpunk etc, while defending someone who paid his friends and wants to be paid a years wage to run the next conference, hijacked the socials, and is acting like a dictato 14:26:09 is hilariously out of touch. it obvious that bF's only context is what hes been told by someone that he trusts 14:26:44 the person who is in his ear, is the exact opposite of everything bf is describing 14:26:56 and the real volunteers are the people that bF is shitting on 14:27:54 who is he to say that those 12(?) people who attend meetings and assist with organization year after year (unlike ajs, who abandoned ship), voices dont matter? 14:28:35 its always a shame when, instead of solving problem, youre stuck correcting misinformation 14:30:48 "i kicked everyone from everything to protect monerkon" 14:31:10 imagine plowsof banned everyone right now, and luigi started closing pull requests and archived the repo 14:31:32 for the good of monero, i need to be sen palpatine 14:32:30 ajs was never the elected leader of monerokon. he is acting like everything which he would like to accuse OF of, minus having a successful biz 14:33:03 even framing OF as a swap provider, is funny. the orangefren service is just an aggregator that uses referral links. 14:33:22 orangefren isnt fixedfloat, changenow, changells 14:33:33 but this is framed like were giving monerkon to changelly 14:34:18 @midipoet:matrix.org @anhdres:matrix.org > <@siren:kernal.eu> None of the MoneroKon volunteers have access to infra or socials right now. Our vaultwarden password store were taken down. None of us can access servers, CDN, registrars and email. OF didn't have access to any of these platforms and the password manager. This was totally unnecessary. 14:34:20 its PERFECTTLY OK to have cake wallet (also an aggregator) fund the conference. trocador as well. AND ORANGEFREN 14:34:29 but not ok to have vik run one? 14:34:55 @siren:kernal.eu: @anhdres:matrix.org @midipoet:matrix.org 14:34:58 He most likely has. Now it also makes sense why he took the vote in stride on Saturday: it was essential that none of use expects a thing, sobhe can do his preparations > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and he could have easily just backed everything up in case he was paranoid 14:41:38 We should drain the jet fund and go on vacation > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> imagine plowsof banned everyone right now, and luigi started closing pull requests and archived the repo 14:42:05 As a service to the community! 14:42:25 Otherwise the money is just sitting there and that is sad 😢 14:57:07 zzz... 15:28:02 @hashido I wasn’t talking about MoneroKon 15:29:12 sgp_: what is TE? 15:29:45 Twisted Edwards, the nonprofit established by others for MoneroKon 15:33:34 geonic: Oh! Sorry then 15:36:00 right. to answer your question, I haven’t created a nonprofit because I frankly don’t see a need for one 15:36:36 it seems TE didn’t generate any “profit” anyway so its nonprofit status was superfluous 15:36:41 was/is 15:39:41 iirc the non profit was for fiat things, VAT numbers on invoices, there was even an accountant getting paid to do nothing for a few months, that type of stuff 15:40:29 monerokon was relying on Digital Renegades (or bF personally) to handle the fiat things 15:41:21 exactly, just unnecessary bureaucracy because “nonprofit” sounds good. Amazon and Apple are technically nonprofits in many jurisdictions (: 15:43:42 There is damage to MK infra right now. And the much bragged about legal protections of the nonprofit are not being used to restore access and kick the sabotaging member. 15:48:07 geonic: I think it was more to remove liability from ajs and onto the nonprofit 15:48:15 How do you think the Monero related audits get contracted? Or the venues get signed for? > right. to answer your question, I haven’t created a nonprofit because I frankly don’t see a need for one 15:48:27 Remember, the reason he retired was because he said he didnt wsnt to be invokved w/o some company to be liable 15:49:18 And the initial suggestion for for @monerobull:matrix.org to be the sole owner of an company that ajs & co could organize under 15:49:25 @plowsof:matrix.org: We needed a way to deal with fiat, that was the primary reason why TE exists. That's why its so lean 15:49:25 @siren:kernal.eu: Isn’t that mostly due to the other board members not doing anything? Has there been a single board meeting following this? 15:49:49 The nonprofit was only moved fwd with when mbll rejected the plan 15:50:18 @sgp_: There was not a single meeting since the founding date XD 15:50:41 @stnby:kernal.eu: This is wrong. There were at least 3 meetings. 15:50:45 Ok so that’s not an instance of all nonprofits being bad, but bad setup was bad 15:50:54 @sgp_: Both other members (midipoet + anhdres) are aware, but can not do anything about this. There is only one director 15:50:55 @siren:kernal.eu: Oh really? 15:51:09 @ct:xmr.mx: They can vote ajs out. 15:51:22 There are 3 directors ajs is appointed managing member 15:52:16 @sgp_: I'm expecting them to help restore the infra. They work day jobs I believe and there's a timezone difference. But for now no action was taken. 15:52:52 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/snUJxCeiqpUHyhVzHxLmzmMO/yaUcD0CR3Jy7YZEOA2ywN6AdEvJqjdMeigQHgliuejy7zqy4rQpoCAAAAAAAAAAA.pdf (Stanovy - Twisted Edwards z. s. - EN.pdf) 15:53:12 Statues of association for TE. If anybody is interested. 15:54:22 Midi would never do that > <@siren:kernal.eu> They can vote ajs out. 15:55:07 @anhdres:matrix.org: has said that he will wait until Saturday before doing anything. In any case, it would certainly be appreciated if they could get ajs to restore access to volunteers. 15:55:36 @siren:kernal.eu: I'm proposing a quiz on them before the vote on saturday. Anyone who answer's any of the quiz questions wrong shouldn't be able to vote, as they would be voting on something they have no idea about. 15:55:59 kinda joking, but not really 15:56:21 The only votes that are actually enforceable are the board member votes 15:56:41 @hashido:matrix.org: Currently theres no rush 15:56:46 We need some specifics to avoid a noisefest at the meeting 15:56:54 @sgp_: no vote on MK's future is enforcible as mk is not a trademark under TE 15:57:02 What questions need to be asked and answred? 15:57:02 What are we voting on? 15:57:09 @comradeblin:matrix.org: > What does OF stand for? 15:57:09 > OnlyFans 🤔 15:57:23 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: We don't know that yet either 15:57:25 :D 15:58:01 @orangefren:matrix.org: Stands for OFrnxmr 15:58:07 Oh, whoops. that was a quiz question 15:58:12 @comradeblin:matrix.org: I'll need to know so that we can avoid a filibuster 16:11:50 sgp_: you seem to forget that audits were being successfully completed before your nonprofit existed. the fact that you inserted yourself into this process does not mean that your nonprofit is indispensable 16:12:11 Ok you do it then 16:13:59 unnecessary. crypto auditors can accept XMR directly. and venue contracts can be signed by any LLC. 16:17:22 for the record, I’m happy to volunteer my LLC if needed 16:22:52 This. We need to stay laser focused on what actually matters. Because very likely, there will be alot of noise made about red herrings, fillibusters, and basically running out the clock with no actual progress or resolution. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> What questions need to be asked and answred? 16:25:47 I propose: 16:25:48 1. Restore access to those who have had access. Including to those who've had access revoked on things not even relevant to MK 16:25:48 2. That the community is okay with a for-profit organizing MK in the future, given the failure of TE to organize MK6 16:25:48 3. ajs transfer control of ALL the resources he manages to someone who is actually trustworthy. The nature of that stewardship to be decided at a future meeting. (whether we go with a non-corporate monetary incentive model, or non-profit custodian). 16:32:45 "Let the noise makers keep zzzing like flies and rage baiting each other into oblivion." 16:33:29 bawdyanarchist go back to X and X spaces. save everything the community meeting. ;) 16:33:50 To word these differently 16:33:50 1. Was ajs' justified in revoking access to all community properties that he had admin access to, if not, should access be restored or should we skip to q2. 16:33:50 2. Should ajs continue as custodian of the the various properties 16:33:50 3. ratifying the vote regarding the host of mk7 16:36:25 Ah sorry. I was framing it as goals/desire. You're trying to be more neutral by framing the questions 16:36:41 The question about profit vs nonprofit should be framed as, should orangefren publicly bill monerkon ~40k for his services? and then, if there isnt enough money, he can take the rest from TE or CCS /s 16:36:43 That's more appropriate for the meeting agenda 16:37:59 I think that the profit/non question is already bundled in with, "who does the community want to run MK7." 16:38:16 By voting for Orange, we're voting that for-profit is acceptable. 16:38:25 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: i was being sarcastic (/s) 16:38:33 oh, lol 16:38:56 btw, where did that $40k number originate? ajs is saying that it's an hourly billing regime. 16:39:10 I think it changed at some point 16:39:12 (proposed regime) 16:39:15 Iirc it was 43k 16:39:45 Then when rejected, he modified so that he can just scribble invoices for his hiurly billing so that it adds up to 43k 16:40:00 Of course, this would still be a volunteer lead monerkon /s 16:41:15 and 10000 messages were sent today by the mosquitoes zzzing in circles. fun! 16:41:22 .bbl 16:42:14 I find is ridiculous that the claim is that kon is volunteer run. The first one was altruistic and took a toll on surae. The ones lead by ajs had friends and family being paid large amounts, while others thanklessly volunteered 16:42:21 ajs proposed the 43k, community rejected and proposed hourly, ajs accepted 16:42:24 If it's not a pita, do you have a screenshot of that? Coz ajs is saying that the $40k is a "mischaracterization" 16:43:06 nioc: That seems like a mistake actually. It's easy to run up hourly costs. I'm sure that was all hashed out then tho 16:43:21 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: Liars gonna lie 16:43:56 I am going from memory so............ it's all written in the meeting 16:44:40 I'm going off of he-said-she-said, since i stopped bothering myself with these shenanigans years ago 16:44:41 BL both sides seemed ok with that 16:46:14 this is far from ajs first time treating kon (and even TE) like his privately owned project. I remember before vost was selected to do the designs, he had preselected some random person that nobody knew and didnt give community a chance 16:46:26 Then gave like 24hrs for potential designers to submit their proposals 16:46:43 also from memory, once the volunteers rejected paying an lead organizer ajs bowed out of MK5 16:47:27 we are currently playing blind men and the elephant 16:47:36 There's definitely a pattern of shady behavior there. Hosting an anonymous venue vote on his personal Nextcloud, before selecting the organizer for MK7 ... That's not exactly the best faith 16:47:48 hopefully we can agree what the elephant looks like :) 16:47:57 Then, as soon as TE was formed, he and/or msvb went and obtained all of the assets for orague blockchain week, and planned to take it over using TE (all before the first monerokon, before any dust had settled). Absokutelt zero consultation with the community or TE about it 16:48:09 "after feedback, it was changed to a dynamic weekly basis" from https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1417#issuecomment-4914878569 16:48:23 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: Did you see his website? 16:48:36 He already designed and deployed mk7 website for his llc 16:48:40 🐘 16:48:42 like this? 16:50:12 https://engel.4lice.com 16:50:30 https://engel.4lice.com/angeltypes/about 16:50:43 "MK7, from 2027-06-25 to 2027-06-27" 16:50:54 None of this looks very good. Unfortunately, documenting and presenting the full canvas painting of this pattern of behavior is probably well outside the scope of the meeting on Saturday. Suffice it to say, those of us feeling up this elephant have a reasonable inference into what's happening. 16:54:07 @ofrnxmr: God what a horribly done website. 16:54:35 If his security skills are on par with his design skills, it's a wonder no one has pwned his site. Probably because that's how little anyone cares. 16:57:45 responsible disclosure is always an option 17:02:48 Yes, no need to fuel the flames here 17:03:34 You're absolutely right! 17:36:54 ajs has contributed more than most in this room so it would be nice to give him the benefit of the doubt 17:39:07 I share your opinion as he might have the right motivation but the actions we have seen are not acceptable still 17:41:41 Until he went rouge, I think a lot of us would've been totally okay with his continued stewardship of the infra/socials. 17:41:49 Its pretty obvious https://engel.4lice.com/angeltypes/about that he doesnt have the right motivation 17:42:57 He counted his chickens and then they didnt lay eggs, now he's left with this sunk time and money 17:43:30 When did communiry agree on any of the stuff posted on that link? 17:43:58 not offering any excuses for him, just saying that it would be nice to remain polite as we work through this. let's all chill until Saturday 17:44:04 Wifi tech support? Fr? 17:44:17 @geonic i can try 17:44:21 shoot those darn useless chickens > <@ofrnxmr> He counted his chickens and then they didnt lay eggs, now he's left with this sunk time and money 17:44:27 what's there to agree on? anyone can organize a MoneroKon, no? 17:44:31 But also, saving politeness for saturday 17:44:35 geonic: Not anymore 17:45:12 Before this, yes. Now, its a problem that orangefren is hosting one in 2027 17:45:42 I haven't heard him say that he's the only one organizing MK in the future, and I haven't heard him refuse to hand over access should people go in that direction. actually I believe he has said the opposite? 17:46:34 a problem for whom? I think we're reading a lot between the lines here and putting words in peoples' mouths 17:47:48 geonic: He did say the opposite, numerous times. But not that OF is organizing, he revokes access to all properties from anyone who didnt vote for him 17:48:15 Now* that 17:48:18 actions always speak louder then words 17:48:25 give me a screenshot 17:48:27 He seriously started blocking people who merely abstained from voting. 17:48:49 I would not call that "reading between the lines" 17:48:56 Screenshot of him kicking orangefren fron monerokon room? 17:49:18 maybe he's paranoid. aren't we all? 17:49:27 https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1417 17:49:30 Or screenshot of him saying he'd transfer the properties to someone else? Or screenshot of him saying he wasnt going to be invokved with mk anymore? All 3 exist 17:49:50 Please review that thread. Screenshots are there, along with timeline synopsis. And btw, there's more than what just there, in terms of kicking people 17:50:27 is this the actual question that you voted on? "Should MoneroKon be converted into a privately controlled commercial enterprise, or should it remain a non-profit public-good initiative?" 17:51:09 No 17:51:52 I don't see a link to the chat logs 17:52:23 He didnt post those meeting logs 17:53:00 (someone will tell you the exact vote question soon) 17:53:07 geonic: We ONLY voted that @orangefren:matrix.org should run MK7 17:53:47 it would be helpful to link the MoneroKon room :) this link is also helpful https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1417 17:54:26 that's ridiculous framing then. no one is converting anything here and I've heard both of you argue for community control over infra/socials 17:56:21 the "nonprofit" vs "for-profit" distinction is a red herring. no one cares whether MK turns a profit or not, we care that events are held and that they reflect community values. in fact, it is better if it turns a profit because that means the events are sustainable 17:57:06 (you have a bunch of 💯 reactions jsyk) 17:57:36 Exactly. I think everyone recognizes that the pure-volunteer model became untenable due to growth. So whether it's a personal fee of $43k, an hourly wage, or an LLC, someone is going to profit/income from MK. That's not even in question afaict. 17:58:31 And accordong to ajs, 43k isnt a profit, its a wage. So, if orangefren "profited" less than that, is it a profit? 17:58:36 I'd prefer things be done as rings and each member have equal roles and equal payout and vote eachother out based on laziness-based-consensus 17:58:37 it's actually pretty disappointing that it hasn't been able to turn a profit after being bootstrapped by the community for 5+ years. that reflects badly on the organizers. 17:58:38 in true monero spirit 17:59:03 If ajs had merely proposed that he and Twisted Edwards maintain custody/stewardship of the infra and socials, bound in good faith to the community will; granting access to entities running MK, I think we'd have all agreed. It would've been a 30 min conversation 17:59:05 It did turn a profit in mk4 and mk5 iirc 17:59:15 Ccs was 100xmr, they have 150 in the wallet 17:59:52 After his behavior though, I dont think that's a reasonable option anymore, sadly. 17:59:55 (the ccs wasnt needed, they are up 50xmr w/o ccs) 18:00:36 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: Ajs did this for mk6, withiut issue. But as soon as mk7 wasnt chosen in his favor, he had a literal meltdown 18:01:49 He accepted that he lost the vote, and said he didnt want to cont being involved with mk, and would coordinate handover of the assets with the mk5/mk6 teams. Then he left the room 18:02:06 He rejoined, and IMMEDIATELY kicked orangefren out of the room 18:02:38 Then he posted on the monerokon twitter that the organizer for mk7 was not decided 18:03:30 Then he removed access for contributors aside from himself, from everything he had custody of 18:04:17 Its hard to give benefit of the doubt when this was all unfolding in public, in real time, directly involving actions against multiple people 18:04:28 it's a public crashout 18:06:05 btw, I think this fiasco has shown that the decentralization theater through "nonprofit boards" is just that. as siren said, "the much bragged about legal protections of the nonprofit are not being used to restore access and kick the sabotaging member". I would much rather hand infra to a disinterested, known individual than to another pointless 18:06:05 board. at the end of the day we're trusting a specific person to hold the keys. 18:07:43 some people I would nominate would be hbs, monerobull, and midipoet (if he can handle the technical requirements) 18:10:04 nioc too 18:14:50 or maybe hand the website to one person and socials to another for added confusion? (: 18:17:20 geonic: We had a vaultwarden instance before it was taken down. In there certain groups of people had access to different socials and parts of infra. We had access control. Ajs was superadmin. 18:17:46 please don't nominate me that requires anything technical :D 18:21:15 siren: how can the process be improved? 18:22:22 make binaryFate superadmin? we're already trusting him with getmonero.org 18:22:54 geonic: You should read his reply in that github thread. 18:22:56 geonic: Stnby is actively trying to restore access to the servers. 18:23:51 I did. I think he has taken what ajs wrote at face value. if putting community assets under a for-profit entity is not under consideration, then I think he's on board with what you're proposing? 18:25:39 siren: I mean going forward. what would you like to see happen/be decided on Saturday 18:27:28 new structure altogether or just ajs hand superadmin keys over? and hand them to whom? 18:38:01 First of all I don't care for a new structure. We're investigating to what extend MK's infra is nuked. All CDN rules and DNS records were removed. None of us can SSH in or access via IP either. I just want credentials to be handed over to the current volunteers. 18:40:38 Luckily OF had credentials to the Hetzner account. We had a dedicated server running Proxmox with VMs there. That me and Stnby set up 3 years ago. Stnby should have updates whether if any VMs were wiped or not. Even if we recover vaultwarden data, I don't trust ajs anymore to not have changed the social media and other credentials just to lock us out. 18:42:11 But at least we might be able to recover pretix, pretalx and mattermost data. Although it's not looking good because I can't access anything by adding it to my /etc/hosts file. Looks like VMs may have been turned off (we don't have proxmox credentials since Vaultwarden is inaccessible) or deleted. 18:44:18 Even if nothing was deleted, we certainly would have appreciated a grace period and a prior warning to migrate out of TE before he rage deleted the DNS and CDN rules. Well I guess the point was to lock us out and slow us down anyway while he was setting up a fully separate infra for his alternative MoneroKon. 18:45:16 We'd have acted quick. It would take a few hours for us to backup or migrate but no, this was totally disruptive. And he's not even around. 18:45:42 there would need to be a new superadmin, no? who should that person be and should that be a question decided only among the volunteers or with input from the broader community? 18:46:21 In our vaultwarden I too had that privilege. Recan and Stnby additionally had infra access (no socials). 18:47:08 geonic: Pre discussion is encouraged, but I think that's perhaps the primary question of business for the Saturday meeting, which the larger group will need to decide 18:50:20 yes, all we're doing is working on the agenda for the Saturday meeting. if we're going to nominate people to take over from ajs, it would be helpful to have a few days for that, no? 18:51:15 Definitely. It's a great idea to brainstorm and solicit interest ahead of time 18:51:42 Also, I have a revamped proposal for Saturday agenda? Trying to frame this neutrally: 18:51:42 1. Should control of the infra/socials be separated from entities organizing future MoneroKon? 18:51:42 * Which physical person will custody the MoneroKon resources?[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/77zG5JQLbDc2eXdO ] 18:53:07 Can you guys move MK discussions to MK group ? 18:53:33 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: id reword "control" to "custody" 18:53:35 We're only here because ajs sought broader community review of this issue. And it's not a small issue. 18:53:43 elongated: sorry, this pertains to the Saturday meeting that will be held in this room 18:53:45 @elongated:matrix.org: no. its been escalated 18:53:53 In other words, he asked us to move discussion from MK to here 18:54:10 binaryfate as well 18:54:35 The old custodians were basically this: Me, stnby, recanman (comradeblin is a good replacement) for infra. ceetee, dadajo, vostoemisio, hbs for socials. There were more people with access to socials and other stuff but I can't remember nor check since vaultwarden is inaccessible. 18:54:41 according to that "side": of the argument, the monerokon room voting is null 18:55:00 I would rephrase #2. Does the community wish to grant @OrangeFren license to organize MoneroKon Warsaw in 2027? 18:55:13 its not a license 18:55:34 its just does community wish to ACK orangefren as organizer of mk7 18:56:29 the further question would be whether orangefrens mk should be allowed to use monerokon socials and post talks to the community workgroup youtube, as done for mk6 18:56:41 if we're going to allow multiple organizers, I think we should move away from the sequential numbering of MoneroKons and use the name of the city instead 18:57:14 MK6 and MK7 only holds meaning for a small group of people 18:57:36 i dont think the numbers are official, im just using it to say "the next mk" 18:58:06 its a litte bit longwinded to say "monerokon warsaw 2027" 18:58:26 geonic: That's a possibility. And ofc anyone is free to use the name "MoneroKon." But the broader community should decide whether or not an organizing entity should have access to the domain/socials. 18:58:28 or "monerokon undecided location 2027" 18:59:06 (we cant use name of city if it isnt decided yet) 18:59:10 we shouldn't limit ourselves to one monerokon per year is what I'm saying. if someone else comes along (including ajs) and wants to do a monerokon before next summer, I think we should remain open that 18:59:27 Definitely 18:59:53 agreed. there has never been a limit on how many mks or who can organize them 19:00:06 geonic: Monerokons 19:00:12 If we find ourselves in a position where the community desires that multiple MKs be wrapped into the the same domain/socials, then I think we can cross that sort of nym-bridge when we get there. 19:00:13 its just been yearly because more than 1 wasnt reasonable, and mk6 wasnt even going to happen 19:00:47 I think we're all hoping that we can have at least one MK each year 19:00:49 so trying to do 1 a year, was already hard to do 19:01:29 having orangefren get it done in 5 months means that its now known to be possibly to organize one in less than 12 months, if done efficiently 19:01:30 It is pretty ironic that the guy who pretty much dipped out 2 years running, now wants the trust of the community that they wont do the same again 19:02:24 2/4 years, right? 19:02:37 ok, so for item #2: "Does the community wish to grant @OrangeFren nonexclusive access to use the MK website and socials for a MoneroKon in 2027?" 19:03:54 he had access in 2026, fwiw 19:04:04 and not to the website 19:04:05 the website is a git repo 19:04:35 "Does the community wish to continue @OrangeFren's nonexclusive access to use the MK website and socials for a MoneroKon in 2027?" 19:04:55 yeah that sounds good 19:04:55 it was revoked 19:04:59 9 women can carry to term 1 baby in a month > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> having orangefren get it done in 5 months means that its now known to be possibly to organize one in less than 12 months, if done efficiently 19:04:59 Multiple MKs in a year is something I considered doing but let's stay focused on just 1 MK7 for now 19:05:10 so you cant continue :D 19:05:42 @orangefren:matrix.org: nono, i just meant that, if community wanted to do one at some point, its no longer a blocker 19:05:59 since it doesnt take 12 months to get it done, and because you can get one done without 12 months 19:06:52 the website can become contentious if there is more than one MK planned at any one time so it's best to retain "community control" TM over that 19:07:20 "Does the community wish to continue @OrangeFren's nonexclusive access to use the MK website and socials for a MoneroKon in 2027?" 19:07:20 i think this question is too specific 19:07:36 the question is, oragefren organizing mk7, y/n 19:07:47 if yes, are we extending access to socials 19:07:54 no. that sounds exclusive 19:08:06 nono 19:08:19 the argument is that of should NOT be allowed to host at all 19:08:22 "you can't do a monerokon because the community voted I'm doing it" 19:08:24 so we need to clear THAT part up 19:08:52 Hmm, perhaps the naming question resolves itself. I prefer to say "MK7" in the question as ofrn suggests, and anyone else that comes along, can have MK_City/person/flavor 19:08:55 community needs to vote that a monerokon can be hosted by OF 19:09:21 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: we can always rename mk7 to mkcity when the city is confirmed 19:09:43 they can still be sequential, since they arent going to be happening on the same weekend 19:09:54 like ufc 300, ufc 301 19:10:07 MK7_city 19:10:24 But only if we end up with more than 1 MK approved by the community for access to socials/website 19:10:45 Otherwise, MK7 is fine. No reason to be verbose from the start. 19:11:37 the point of contention is "corporate raider orangefren should not be allowed to host mk7__" 19:11:58 and until the community agrees, they should be kicked from the socials 19:12:10 the numbering is fine for internal discussion, but for clarity it's better to advertise it with the name of the city and year (once known) 19:12:25 I think it's better to frame our desired outcome as a positive desire, not the negation of a negative 19:12:49 "Does the community wish to continue @OrangeFren's nonexclusive access to use the MK website and socials for a MoneroKon in 2027?" is clear and actioanble 19:13:01 its not 19:13:08 because ORANGEFREN ISNT ALLOWED TO HOST 19:13:14 by whom? 19:13:21 bf and ajs 19:13:29 that is the entire point of this drama 19:13:30 by the boss 19:13:45 no. the only point of contention here is the website and socials 19:13:51 of was voted to host, ajs vetoed is, got bf to join him, kicked everyone from socials, now were here 19:14:17 I think either phrasing is fine, honestly 19:14:20 Yeah the core issue is the transfer of custody without potential recourse if things go wrong, no? 19:14:28 bf is against the folding of community assets into a for-profit company (I would hope this applies to nonprofits too) 19:14:35 there is no transfer of custody that was being debated 19:14:45 that was never in the cards 19:14:51 that is a made up buyllshit 19:14:59 sure you said this 3 times now > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> of was voted to host, ajs vetoed is, got bf to join him, kicked everyone from socials, now were here 19:15:12 its only in the card BECAUSE ajs fucked around 19:15:13 It may be made up but is that the concern anyway? 19:15:20 Well, transfer to someone else, just not ajs or Orange. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> there is no transfer of custody that was being debated 19:15:24 if ajs didnt kick everyone and hijack the socials, then custody was never an issue 19:15:50 @sgp_: it is now, yes 19:15:53 It was always a potential issue. Hence the cause of why people are complaining now 19:16:09 but the issue was not created regarding socials. it was created regarding hosting 19:16:25 Too bad the non-profit TE doesnt seem to be helping in this regard right now 19:16:41 " if ajs didnt kick everyone and hijack the socials, then custody was never an issue" <-- and OF would've continued planning undisturbed. so the only issue here is account access, not who is holding the next MK. 19:16:54 geonic: not true 19:16:54 the irc matrix bridge in the MK room was taken down 5 hrs ago 19:17:08 However, despite the drama, I do believe that ajs has confirmed multiple times that he will cede control of the socials/infra, depending on the outcome of the meeting 19:17:21 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: he said this after the vote.. 19:17:49 nioc: More evidence why ajs cannot be trusted with custody any longer 19:17:52 said he would walk away from mk, didnt want to be involved, and would coordinate with mk5 about transfering custody away 19:18:34 is the bridge part of any other infra? 19:18:37 I think we need to find a person to transfer control, ASAP. Then we can discuss the structure/incentives of the custodian. Which to me is a detail (an important one), but secondary to transferring control 19:18:54 "he will cede control of the socials/infra" <-- this is the only issue that is relevant to this channel as those are community assets. you can decide who is holding what MK in the MK channel once access is restored. 19:18:59 freethebridge 19:19:58 but it would be good to know who he would theoretically be ceding access to prior to voting on Saturday 19:20:20 geonic: Well, hypothetically if the community rallies behind his (somewhat vague) position, then there's no reason to suspect he ever will restore access. 19:20:35 which position? 19:20:48 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: so i think that question needs to be 2fold. vote 1: should ajs retain custody of the socials. 2. regardless of 1: can orangefren host mk7 3. requires 2: can orangefren use the socials for mk7 19:21:20 geonic: did you read binaryfates comment? 19:21:34 I don't see a single person defending his actions here so low chance of anyone rallying 19:21:42 geonic: At a minimum, our position is that he must transfer access to a community selected custodian, of: all social media, domains, servers, and infrastructure related to MoneroKon. 19:22:05 any ideas for whom should take custody in the interim? 19:22:23 I think that's our best question to explore right now 19:22:31 I like ComradeBlin for this position, personally. But there are others. 19:22:51 @comradeblin:matrix.org: ☝️ 19:23:46 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You :) 19:23:46 I'd be fine with @ct:xmr.mx too for instance 19:24:03 orangefren: you don't get a vote (: 19:24:38 🫪 19:24:43 and neither does ajs 19:25:13 fine, then the rationale why I would suggest ofrnxmr is because he's the strongest defender of "anyone can host an MK" 19:25:28 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: I'm happy to take care of that. (though not the management of the website, host holding the things). 19:25:28 If the community is fine enough with it too— of course. 19:25:28 I'm definitely one person that has enough to lose if I'd go rouge in the community :D (eg: My job at Trocador, and the hosting company I'm just about to launch) 19:25:56 we can't select only 1 person because people have disappeared before 19:26:11 nioc: right 19:26:25 Perhaps tux as a second guy? 19:26:37 Well respected member of the community, and similar situation to mine. 19:26:50 Yes, we need at least one backup > <@comradeblin:matrix.org> I'm happy to take care of that. (though not the management of the website, host holding the things). 19:27:39 +1 tux 19:27:58 im not talking about permanant 19:28:00 @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: Would you like to be a name in the hat for custodian of MoneroKon resources? 19:28:19 @tuxsudo:tux.pizza: 19:28:21 tux aint gonna answer here, i dont think 19:28:22 @orangefren:matrix.org: Him as well! 19:28:23 hes not active 19:28:36 doesnt even respond in cake room 19:28:37 why not? when would a permanent custodian be selected? 19:28:51 some monerokon meeting 19:29:00 lol no 19:29:05 we need someone with their finger on the pulse of the community 19:29:12 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i think he's discord 19:29:15 we need someone to receive the assets from ajs if its voted that he should remove himself 19:29:24 it's been escalated. you don't get to decide among yourselves 19:29:28 pinged tux on another platform. 19:29:30 geonic: I feel like Saturday is the day 19:29:49 We'll have the most eyes and motivation at that time. It's the most "fair" that I think we can manage 19:30:04 I have been summoned 19:30:08 bawdy: agreed. just vote for a new custodian on Saturday 19:30:09 ok, but you need to decide on rules for how to remove the new custodians as well 19:30:16 . > <@bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: Would you like to be a name in the hat for custodian of MoneroKon resources? 19:30:17 well god damn, tux actually appeared 19:30:31 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I pinged him on signal lol 19:30:36 oh ahaha 19:30:47 comrade the magician 19:30:50 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: We discussed an incentive structure. Ultimately, regardless of rules, corporations, monetary incentives, etc; it all hinges on the custodian showing good faith. 19:30:50 they're in cahoots 19:30:59 How would the "backup custodian" work? 19:31:35 @user2570:unredacted.org: imo, two custodians, but only one is active. the other is only there in canse the first falls off a cliff 19:31:36 @user2570:unredacted.org: it's not a mitigation of going rogue, but rather going AWOL. 19:31:38 sure if I could have some context on what that involves > <@bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: Would you like to be a name in the hat for custodian of MoneroKon resources? 19:32:08 youd have to grant and remove access for oraganizers anc community members for various monerokons 19:32:19 based on community sentiment 19:32:43 The idea is that, the socials/infra for MoneroKon should be separate from the organizers. 19:32:43 <321bob321> I just noticed I don't need to host linkstack anymore for monerokon ? 19:33:13 <321bob321> Looks like they have been added to site directly 19:33:27 <321bob321> Good communication 19:33:45 This keeps "reasonably fair" decisionmaking over who gets access to the officially-unofficial website/socials; and keeps community control over those resources, regardless of who is organizing MK any given year 19:34:08 regardless of who is organizing the next MK* :) 19:35:09 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ok that’s fine then 19:35:26 (I'd love to see ajs organize his monerokon in addition to orangefren) 19:35:49 <321bob321> Hardfork 19:35:51 yeah that’s cause my main matrix homeserver blew up and I haven’t fixed it I have to go back through and re-add myself to a bunch of channels > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> doesnt even respond in cake room 19:36:20 tuxsudo: you have to promise not to organize your own MoneroKon tho 19:36:24 <321bob321> Maybe cake can run kon too 19:36:35 geonic: I don't think he has the time for that rofl 19:36:44 (: 19:36:44 geonic: aw man!!! Well I guess I wasn’t planning to do that anyways 🙃 19:36:54 what if cake runs one tho 19:36:59 TUX IS A CORPORATE RAIDER 19:37:03 tru 19:37:08 mole from cake 19:37:16 I think his first allegiance is to monero 19:37:29 (no offense Vik) 19:37:30 /s 19:37:40 I'm a corporate raider I'm all for profit profit profit 19:37:43 imagine the shock on ajs face when we give the socials to cake 19:37:54 Can we raid the raiders? 19:37:56 @siren:kernal.eu: I'm for ALL the profit. /s (just some of it) 19:38:13 new custodia = cakes top guy :D hahahaha, ajs gonna crash out 19:38:28 if conflict of interest has to be considered than yes keep in mind I work at cake wallet but at the same time that might make me more trustworthy 19:38:38 nono 19:38:49 @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: Nah I argued the same. It would actually help, not be a conflict. 19:38:50 the issue is that they didnt want orangefren to have custody 19:39:00 Both of us have things (like our jobs) to lose. 19:39:03 because " he rund a swap service" and is "for profit" 19:39:08 corporate raider, was the term used 19:39:10 monerobull is unemployed so he has that going for him 19:39:31 (I kid) 19:39:57 I fully support Orange fren running the next MK per the vote 19:40:07 but really, not much difference between orangefren and cake. both are swap aggregators, but cake runs more services 19:40:36 Why not comrade + ceetee? 19:40:36 the difference is cake isn't a party to this nonsense 19:40:45 cake is party 19:40:49 they sponsor every kon 19:40:53 every single one 19:41:13 good point. I hope we have more good candidates prior to the vote on Saturday! 19:41:56 ceetee should be asked 19:42:10 @hbs: would you be open to having your name added to the list of choices? 19:42:13 custodians are not supposed to use the access they have, only make it accessible to whoever organizes Mk 19:42:13 You ideally want to pick people who benifit if the ecosystem thrives as a whole 19:42:20 The crazy part is that, ajs didn't mention that at all. He framed it in a completely false manner, and we actually brought this up, not him. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the issue is that they didnt want orangefren to have custody 19:43:10 Having people involved in other parts of the community reduces the fist of sudden disappearance, and they have a lot of reputation to loose 19:43:10 For those reasons I think comrade + tux would work 19:43:15 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: based on bFs comment, i think ajs must have spread that message 19:43:17 (if someone on matrix can tag hbs I'd appreciate it) 19:43:32 ty ct 19:43:33 @hbs:matrix.org 19:43:37 thats an assumption based on my lack of sleep today 19:44:23 <321bob321> @siren:kernal.eu: Hostile takeover ? 19:44:45 ok, so people will vote for 2 candidates on Saturday and the top choice will be the main custodian while the second will be the backup? 19:44:58 so far, it seems like the vote about whether ajs should step away as custodian is going to be an easy one (unless were raided by boys) 19:45:09 bots* 19:45:13 geonic: I don't think it really matters. whoever is available to do shit does shit 19:45:19 But essentially, yes. 19:45:45 someone mentioned weighted voting, no idea how that would work in practice 19:45:47 I do stand behind hbs as well, was been very reliable over the years. 19:46:11 nioc: i'll only count the votes of people who vote for me 19:46:22 if you vote against me, i'll have plowsof remove you 19:46:33 I would prefer if the backup remain dormant and only step up if necessary so that we know who is doing what 19:46:39 I'm honored that you guy suggest me to, I'd do the role if vote for 19:46:44 geonic: fairz 19:47:32 comrade, ceetee, tux, is the current list of nominees 19:47:41 yep, looking good so far 19:47:52 oh, and ajs 19:48:09 who nominated him :p 19:48:11 geonic: Just have to make sure the backup is still an active backup 19:48:23 ct: true 19:48:29 <321bob321> Why not split the management 19:48:30 @monerobull what say you? 19:48:37 <321bob321> So we don't go full circle again 19:49:07 <321bob321> Domain 19:49:07 <321bob321> Email 19:49:07 <321bob321> Yt 19:49:07 <321bob321> Got 19:49:07 <321bob321> Vps 19:49:17 <321bob321> Got* 19:49:50 i think the votiing should have to be ranked. like 4 3 2 1, and the person with the highest cumulative points wins? 19:50:06 and the second highest is backup 19:50:18 yeah 19:50:22 some suggested splitting things before in the MK room 19:51:21 which might get interesting depending on the outcome of the vote 19:51:30 <321bob321> I forgot chair security 19:51:35 then the risk of disappearance appears again 19:51:51 truw 19:51:53 true 19:52:17 we should decide if we are voting for co-maintainers or for a main + backup. pros and cons to both 19:52:28 <321bob321> Nioc how come there is no drama in monero 19:52:55 I am waiting on a delivery of popcorn which is running late :( 19:53:21 <321bob321> Drama plz hold 19:55:03 Sorry, one last drama: 19:55:03 https://x.com/BawdyAnarchist_/status/2074945213081280522 19:55:41 can people stop writing rouge. it's rogue :p 19:57:12 geonic: The cringes of the english language. I know it's spelled rogue, but damn it's irritating that it actually would make more sense as rouge. 19:57:42 I only know how to spell because it's my second language 19:58:02 Just sayin that Twitter spell check was fine with it 19:58:14 colour >> color 19:58:14 honour >> honor 19:58:21 well it is a word 19:58:49 I think it means red? 19:59:00 yes, in French 19:59:55 yes 20:00:39 N. 1) "A red or pink cosmetic for coloring the cheeks or lips" 2) "A reddish powder, chiefly ferric oxide, use to polish metals or glass"... 20:01:01 RED COCAINE 20:01:07 beef also comes from french 20:01:27 Baton Rouge is also a city 20:01:36 nioc: That's like half the English language :P 20:01:52 the other half being German? 20:02:01 @jpk68:matrix.org: boo tigers 20:02:37 Baton Rouge is from an area that had French influence 20:02:43 nioc: Lain, Germanic, Greek... 20:02:50 s/Lain/Latin/ 20:05:39 "rouge" 20:05:40 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/FfMRcDtCYXyZgqOOeCjVkvVF.webp (Ninja_Run_f14.webp) 20:05:54 anyways, this chat so dumb 20:06:00 just dropping by to say that 20:06:03 The door is there, use it. 20:06:10 _Leave room_. Click. 20:06:47 who gives a shit about monerokon, yall inviting scammer anyways, caught on a podcast thing, apparently even justin 'tron' sun been out here having a shill for his scam at monerokon, wtf even if this lol 20:07:00 Cool story. Have you left yet? 20:10:51 popcorn, anyone? 20:10:52 4/10 ragebait 20:11:08 its kitty, give her a 6 20:11:28 At least that was better than "he is holding our services hostage"! 20:11:38 Thanks for the Ninja_Run_f14.webp (??) 20:11:41 Since we didn't vote for the "boss". For hours. 20:11:43 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: like i said, fuck off and die, yall out here being corporate slop wannabes, that's just cringe af 20:11:58 But I didn't create any ruckus! 20:12:09 im going you outlive you by 100 years 20:12:13 Clowns are the mosquitoes and don't even realize it. 20:12:14 @jpk68:matrix.org: game am making, which apparently making a game thing (diablo 1 costed millions of dollar apparently) but for monero, yall entitled to that shit for free 20:12:16 to* outlive 20:12:33 oh no a company set up 1 table at my conference about digital money 20:12:34 drooling-retard "this chat so dumb" if it is so "dumb", why are you still here? 20:14:08 @jeffro256: who gives a shit about conferences tho, this is literal corporate slop wannabes out here being like circle jerking like irl linkedin, cringiest shit ever 20:14:19 ok ofrn. 20:14:23 anything else to add? 20:14:34 Welcome then. Apparently you feel the need to participate. 20:14:43 @drooling-retard:matrix.org: People who enjoy connecting with other people about shared topics 20:14:54 well stop rejoining and taking part you drooling retard 20:15:08 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: having fun drawing funny lines on graph on a shit podcast? great participation from you out there lol 20:15:22 💤 20:15:29 @jeffro256: cringe 20:16:14 @drooling-retard:matrix.org: thank you for your valued input sar 20:16:29 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: am not sarang 20:16:49 fucking dumbass lol 20:17:24 lmfao 20:19:20 Well ofc you would have to deny it 20:19:33 It's okay, I still respec you. Such respec. 20:19:47 New binaries v0.18.5.1 are now available at www.getmonero.org 20:22:39 binaryFate: they not there yet? https://github.com/monero-project/monero/releases 20:22:56 he's just told you where they are 20:24:18 fuck getmonero tho, that shit needs to die, it has the ccs model with all yall scammers, it's a shit model made by a literal scammer (rehrar), then that dumbass tryna make the new design of getmonero to have his bullshit mascot (isabella) to be the face of monero, that's cringe af, monerochan been the face of monero, his shit mascot never been adopted by anyone in the community, fuck getmonero 20:24:29 💤 20:24:38 i dont wanna link to it that linking to a microslop bullshit website (github) is still better than linking to getmonero at this point, just sayin 20:24:44 ..."don't feed the troll"... 20:25:09 @plowsof:matrix.org: can we get rid of this ragebaiter? 20:25:21 @comradeblin:matrix.org: shut the fuck up snitch 20:25:24 glowie piece of shit 20:25:26 i was about to shill the torrent im creating but yes 20:25:39 snitches dont get no bitches 20:26:23 :c 20:27:30 drooling-retard: they are on github now 20:27:56 one of her idle alt accounts will see this BF 20:28:10 @comradeblin:matrix.org: not really. she's always here 20:28:20 thanks binaryFate 20:28:49 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: mustn't be getting enough 🍆 20:30:10 i would respond to that, but she never gave me her rates 20:31:52 idk crack prices 20:32:33 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/pgRfFEqAYfLRaMjNAZwEBbVD.png (image.png) 20:32:38 https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=109761684 20:32:44 on the wayback machine by the way 20:32:53 videogamers MADE bitcoin for FREE 20:32:59 yall out here scamming 20:33:22 @plowsof:matrix.org 20:33:22 @plowsof:matrix.org: you dont belong in this space 20:33:34 @pw:xmr.mx: you neither you snitch piece of shit 20:34:16 just CBA with women on their periods 20:34:55 you used to be cool kitty. what went wrong 20:35:44 @pw:xmr.mx: working for free and being denied 10 xmr for a whole year of work by scammers that got paid 2000 xmr on bullshit work that the space dont even need, making a whole videogame as well, was saying that one the thread that was deleted by the way... the blueprints for everything 20:36:05 currently did like 3 of the milestones of my ccs 20:36:08 but doing it for free 20:36:20 that was just 3k salary being requested for a whole year of work 20:36:24 how long a go was this 20:36:30 still doing it, alongside building a whole videogame from scratch... 20:37:02 idk, was 2025 the ccs, did 3 ladders so far 20:51:48 torrents are up now https://github.com/plowsof/monero-torrent/releases 🧲 20:58:30 super popcorn 20:58:44 hey geonic, you still there? 20:59:10 since the irc bridge is dead in kon room, im assuming you cant see whats going on 20:59:31 <321bob321> plowsof: I can use with limewire? 21:00:06 <321bob321> And does it come with virus 21:01:30 For the record, ajs showed up again in the MK room, and said he's transferring control of the MK infra to core, but refused to say what actual person he's coordinating with, that will not control those resources. 21:01:54 my decentralized is giving the socials etc to another centralized entity 21:02:19 now we need to figure out who owns the socials, and get it from them 21:02:28 obviously if its core, its bf 21:02:35 luigi doesnt have time for this shit 21:03:11 and its DEFINITELY not artic 21:03:34 It's funny, maybe all of this is irrelevant. More of the active devs showed up to Monerotopia than Kon anyways. 21:03:53 because they are based in north america 21:04:36 monerokon started in north america, then went to europe becasue thats where the organizers want to organize 21:06:23 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: It's hard in the US at this moment. When I went to visit Alaskanon the second time, I got questioned like for 15-20 minutes at immigration, even though I already have record with the US. 21:06:44 Yeah, US policy has gotten way worse in this regard 21:06:44 alaska isnt on earth 21:07:04 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Except that I did immigration in Seattle 21:07:15 immigration? 21:07:24 border control 21:07:25 since when do you need to immigrate to be a visitor? 21:07:26 whatever you call it 21:07:29 oh okok 21:07:35 TSA 21:07:42 No 21:07:49 TSA and immigration officers are 2 different things 21:08:05 Both however, are under the administration of Homeland Security 21:08:27 hm. i dont fly, but ive crossed border like 5 times a day before 21:09:36 anyway, my point is just that the reaosn more devs go to topia than kon, is because its not a 20 hour flight away 21:10:03 they went to kon more when their flights were paid for 21:11:10 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: travel expenses are still being reimbursed (I think up to 500$) 21:11:24 the flight from us is like 3k 21:11:30 probably 21:11:39 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Doing it wrong then. 21:12:00 European VPN and you can get a flight for 400-600 from the east coast. 21:12:09 800-1k from west 21:12:14 round flight* 21:12:15 maybe not 21:12:19 im seeing 900 21:12:34 just looked on google 21:12:38 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: From the east coast? 21:13:00 anyway, that makes it pretty funny that people were getting rebursed like 2k for flights 21:13:07 in the pre-TE ajs days 21:13:30 where everything was trustmebro invoicing, super cypherpunk style 21:13:59 from the new york, im seeing 700 21:14:29 from cali, 680 (west coast) 21:14:46 still a 14hr flight 21:14:51 sounds about right depending on the day of the week. 21:14:54 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: For sure. 21:15:16 which is why id like to see a kon in north america 21:16:53 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yea, it would be nice indeed. What State/city are you thinking? 21:17:15 depends when in the year 21:17:27 monerotopia can happen in the winter, because its in the south 21:17:37 but in the summer, i wouldnt want it in the south 21:17:54 it would kill our european friends 21:17:55 in the winter, wouldnt want it in the north 21:18:02 haha 21:18:30 I’m here hey geonic, you still there? 21:18:33 @jeffro256: I was in San Diego in September, I beg to differ. 21:18:44 september isnt the summer 21:18:47 faiir 21:19:04 yeah, geonic, just wanted to say that ajs is transferring the stuff to monero core team 21:19:13 not going to wait for the meeting 21:19:39 so this discussion was a waste of time, now we need to try to pry it out of cores hands 21:19:41 The US is very difficult to get into for the majority of countries 21:19:48 bob limewire is fine and yes the trojan comes with cli/gui binaries 21:19:59 September is technically summer, but definitely after the worst has passed 21:20:00 Would be cool to have some farm/ranch vibe to it imo. So if not South/Texas, Montana perhaps? > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but in the summer, i wouldnt want it in the south 21:20:09 @comradeblin:matrix.org: texas can be cheap 21:20:26 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And also hot, which you just said you wouldn't want it in the south. 21:20:41 I wouldn't mind it though. Would be nice to see Texas 21:20:43 @jpk68:matrix.org: Yeah the USA treats USA citizens horribly at the border, I can't imagine what it's like for non-citizens 21:20:50 @comradeblin:matrix.org: in the summer, i woudlnt. in the winter, it can still be pretty nice weather 21:20:53 yeah I read that. I think tptb have been reading our chat so it was not a waste of time 21:20:55 @jeffro256: This. 21:21:04 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: For sure 21:21:09 @jeffro256: you must be on a list 21:21:09 “BawdyAnarchist: i am in the process of transferring all accounts to Monero Project” 21:21:16 @jeffro256: I heard they can check your phone contents and ask for your passwords/keys 21:21:28 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: lowkenuinely I think I am 21:21:37 I wouldn't put it in Montana in the winter 💀. That's when the European friends would be messed up lol 21:22:14 i am too, but after crossing border like 20 times in a couple days, and being searched thoroughly like 15 of those times, i think they just think im a troll 21:23:17 @joel:kernal.eu: Not 100% true, but kinda. 21:23:17 For Citizens, they can ask you to unlock your phone and they can demand you open it with your biometrics. You don't have to open it with your password though. Best to put it into BFU mode before clearing immigration. 21:23:17 For non-citizens, you either do it if you get asked to, or you don't enter. Those are your choices. 21:23:19 @joel:kernal.eu: all of your electronic devices 21:23:22 geonic: That's vague 21:23:32 I also get secondary security screening (they sniff every piece of clothing) and extra questions about my personal life when I travel in and out of the US border by myself 21:23:49 We're asking who he's coordinating with. Because "the Monero Project" doesnt have the control and login credentials. A person does 21:23:51 @comradeblin:matrix.org: if you dont comply, they can just seize your shit 21:24:05 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: For citizens? Sure, but you still get to enter xd 21:24:07 the land of the free 21:24:11 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: its obv binary 21:24:11 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: They do, and there are record numbers of device searches 21:24:33 We can only speculate. A good faith responsible party would state it outright. 21:24:41 yep, sounds like bF. as good a choice as any. he’ll confirm at some point 21:24:43 nah, its binary :D 21:25:02 Why not have it somewhere relatively expat-friendly (like Panamá)? 21:25:16 Preferably not in the summer, of course :D 21:25:17 or mexico 21:25:29 thats prob why topia is in mexico 21:25:34 I was thinking that as well, but it might be too close (as in, similar) to MT 21:25:35 they let anybody in 21:25:59 @jpk68:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/jgwLNhPozxAmRmGRmSZarnLI.png (image.png) 21:26:27 The US is similar. 670$ from JFK 21:26:55 Better than like half the people not from the US being barred from attending 21:26:58 Offshore has benefits and contras. Flight prices in specific are the latter :D 21:27:35 Let's do middle grounds. Go Greenland 21:27:40 :p 21:27:54 That will also the the US soon /s 21:27:55 PENGUINS 21:27:59 /s 21:28:50 Yeah the USA treats USA citizens horribly at the border, I can't imagine what it's like for non-citizens <<>> I never have an issue and I often get border control to laugh 21:29:35 You probably always had agents who had a great day before you. 21:30:01 It really sucks that just because an immigration agent has a bad day, it could very much fuck up your own. 21:30:44 FYI people. Money on hardware wallets in the US is considered cash, and needs to be declared above 10k 21:31:15 @comradeblin:matrix.org: You sure? I thought that wasn't the case. 21:31:16 what about poetry ? 21:31:54 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: I did too. Until the immigration agent told me. 21:31:56 Oh they lie 21:31:57 You cant trust them 21:31:58 immigration telling you whever they want 21:31:59 In any case, you have to consent to getting molested by TSA. Is it really worth it? 21:32:09 if i have money in my bank acct, i dont have to declare it 21:32:12 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: I can, because I didn't have one with me, I just asked. But let me find the law that says so. Sec. 21:33:05 I know it sucks, but the practical reality of dealing with the US and immigration there, makes the US difficult to host a conf there. 21:33:06 meanwhile ccs scammers & gatekeepers could fuck up your whole year, not just your day > <@comradeblin:matrix.org> It really sucks that just because an immigration agent has a bad day, it could very much fuck up your own. 21:33:08 haha 21:33:09 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/AwkSQxLIbANnpgwdQaIMREWg.jpeg (glT5aEG.jpeg) 21:33:29 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: All the time, in my experience. And they give you a hard time when you lawfully refuse to give up information they ask for 21:33:40 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: not really if the target audience is north americans 21:33:55 there are 500million ppl in north america, and like 500m in europe. dont quote me 21:34:17 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Feels like the target audience is XMR enthusiasts. 21:34:24 murica doesn't like north americans 21:34:46 even canadians are evil now lol 21:34:51 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You think other countries in NA don't have a hard time getting into the US? That's kind of a joke 21:35:01 All of the audience talking about MoneroKon at this hour at this room should be banned from voting. 21:35:11 im not saying there should only be one kon and it should be in NA, im saying that many people from NA dont go to european kons, even if for different reasons 21:35:12 @jpk68:matrix.org: i dont. 21:35:22 i know many people from canada that come to usa on vacation EVERY year 21:35:42 me too 21:35:52 and i know many illegal mexicans who came and never left :D lol 21:35:58 AmeriKon 21:35:58 they are always nervious 21:36:23 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: The average boomer snowbird probably doesn't care about TSA looking through their Hotmail account 21:36:31 they take things off their phones b4 crossing over 21:37:00 because social media told them that vance memes will get them sent back 21:37:12 also don't use webchat 21:37:22 that will set specific fields that ensure that will show up 21:37:28 but i usually just fill my phone with nudes of myself in the mirror 21:37:36 wrong room 21:37:37 and they give my phoneback real quick 21:37:45 The entire travesty that the US can (and does) deny entry if you refuse to unlock your phone ... Nothing could be more antithetical to the privacy culture of Monero. Asking people to wipe their phones just to attend MK? It just seems like a non-started 21:37:49 my phone is filled with pics of cats 21:38:31 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Don't think I fall for that BS, lmao 21:38:54 nioc: .cats 21:39:05 @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: americans can be told to unlock too 21:39:09 so why would they fly to europe? 21:39:10 only to be hung upside down on the trip back 21:39:24 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yes. They can seize your phone, if you refuse, they can detain you. But they cant deny you entry. At least that's been the practice as of late, supposedly 21:39:35 in other words, monerokon EU and monerokon USA will always have a divide 21:39:47 and i dont see it as being a nonstarter 21:40:00 for the reason that the same restrictions apply to anyone traveling from the us, and thos travelling to it 21:40:01 I have never had an issue flying into any country 21:40:12 remember that CBP can do seizures certain miles away from a port of entry and almost the entire US is within those areas :) > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> americans can be told to unlock too 21:40:13 But you're right, it's still a problem, regardless 21:40:42 the US market is therefore shut off, and having a conference here just gives americans an opportunty to attend 21:41:00 DataHoarder[m]: 100 miles, recently upheld by the Supreme Court IIRC 21:41:12 Not every EU or European person has access to an american ESTA though. 21:41:15 well I can't leave my home for more than a couple of days so maybe I need to organize a MK here 21:41:21 Visas take a fair amount of time, and might be denied even then 21:41:26 and usa is like, thousands of miles across 21:41:35 @comradeblin:matrix.org: dont need one 21:41:39 @jeffro256: yeah, and you don't even need to have gone through a port of entry for this, so anyone is target for phone scan 21:41:44 you just need a passport 21:41:55 2/3rds of the U.S. population live within 100 miles of a border (the ocean counts too) 21:42:10 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I'm talking about europeans 21:42:11 DataHoarder[m]: i dont think americans have to do this cc jeffro 21:42:13 For example Romanians need a visa for the US, they don't have ESTA. 21:42:24 thats unlawful search and seizure 21:42:33 which only protects americans, of course 21:42:49 don't forget many countries have to pay a pricey visa to get into the us 21:42:59 Even an ESTA is 40$ 21:43:03 20$ for some 21:43:06 @anhdres:matrix.org: dont you just need a passport? 21:43:09 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: No. 21:43:11 nop 21:43:23 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: they can still do lawful seizure btw 21:43:24 No MoneroKon in BurgerLand. I would rather have it in Belarus 21:43:25 only need a visa if you plan to stay for any amount of time, no? 21:43:35 and it's not a given you'll be awarded one 21:43:47 no, just to enter 21:44:06 I needed visa just to stopover in the us on my way to Mexico 21:44:08 Hungary has the best/one of the best visa agreement with the US from the EU rn I think, and even we need to pay 40$ and fill out a fricking long ESTA (Visa Waiver) application form. And pray that it gets accepted. 21:44:09 @stnby:kernal.eu: fake news. the mcdonalds sucks now 21:44:18 🇧🇾🫶MK 21:44:35 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: No. you need it to enter. 21:45:06 There is a visa waiver program, but it's just an easier VISA. You still need to apply and can be accepted or denied. it also costs 20-40$. And not many countries have it. 21:45:16 DataHoarder[m]: I suggest anyone curious research civil asset forfeiture 21:45:17 thats kinda retarded 21:45:26 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: mcdonalds suck or muricans suck on mcdonalds 21:45:37 mcdonalds sucks 21:45:58 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: What the funny thing is, under the visa waiver program, you're not considered a nonresident alien, so you can legally carry a firearm in the states that allow it. 21:45:59 its not cheap anymore, and quality is trash 21:46:00 :D 21:46:04 the current visa for argentineans is 185 usd, even for tourists 21:46:20 @comradeblin:matrix.org: i dont think thats accurate in most states 21:46:32 the constitutuon only protects citizens 21:46:35 anhdres 0_o 21:46:43 yep 21:46:45 constitutional carry doesnt apply to non citizens 21:47:04 @anhdres:matrix.org: identify as a canadian 21:47:06 and you have to pay even if it's just renovating a previous approved visa 21:47:19 all the hate is making me want to organize a monerokon in LA hmmm 21:47:36 geonic, do it 21:47:38 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: feel free to search it up. I was surprised when I learnt this. 21:47:53 we can have our boxing/mma match :D lolol 21:47:57 geonic: Louisiana you mean? 21:48:13 Los Angeles 21:48:15 @comradeblin:matrix.org: im in one of the most free states, and only citizens an carry 21:48:19 unlicensed 21:48:24 Damn my least favorite US city 21:48:27 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: dmd 21:48:42 ;) 21:48:55 you have to know it to love it. takes 5 years or so 21:49:33 in AmeriKon we need a revolver duel between a bitcoiner and monero 21:50:04 the monerokon in Denver was pretty good ngl 21:51:38 jeffro, would you attend a monerkon in usa 21:51:56 Absolutely 21:52:06 im asking because the fbi wants to know where to find you 21:52:23 some questions we'd like to ask 21:53:37 Had some "undercover" (they were terrible at being undercover) cops/feds try to weasle info out of me in a conference in Dallas 21:53:57 anhdres btw how are you here after yesterday's heart attack 21:55:26 geonic: my voice is back to normal now 21:55:41 ha 21:56:21 that game was insane 21:57:13 for the record previous world cups when we got kicked out were passing through my head and i kept pushing the images away and repeated "wait..." once and again to my son 21:57:43 like a mantra haha 21:58:42 you and 40 million others lol 21:59:36 didn't help the Brazilians and I'm sure they prayed as well! 22:00:01 i have to admit we're not playing pretty as we used to but i would be lying if i told you it's not fun to read so many people online butthurt when we win 22:01:03 geonic: brazil has been awful for years now. let's hope they remain so at least until we have 5 stars ourselves. then they can pick up winning again 22:02:42 messi is getting long in the tooth but he still has the football gods on speed dial it seems. it's crazy he could remain calm and perform under all that pressure 22:04:55 it is. we all know it won't last forever but that only adds to the drama of every time he manages to survive just another match 22:05:31 The Argentinian football team is more addicted to drama than the Monero community, sure. What did you expect! > <@anhdres:matrix.org> for the record previous world cups when we got kicked out were passing through my head and i kept pushing the images away and repeated "wait..." once and again to my son 22:05:59 @midipoet:matrix.org: today I'd say it's pretty 50/50 22:06:26 <321bob321> Eygpt should of won 22:06:42 <321bob321> Var crap 22:07:15 Elaborate? :)) > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> we can have our boxing/mma match :D lolol 22:08:07 Anywhere in the EU would also be a huge pain considering the way things are going right now 22:08:08 if Egypt had lost after leading 3-0 it would've been even more embarrassing for them 22:08:11 *might be in the future 22:10:09 for what's worth i think egypt played an almost perfect match. football is not fair. sometimes you're lucky and sometimes you aren't 22:10:51 @jpk68:matrix.org: someone wanted to set up a boxing match between us years ago 22:11:07 but now we have polymarket 22:11:27 That would be really fun 22:14:20 sometimes Trump puts in a call for you and you get what you want 22:16:05 i hope infantino, trump, and the gods both old and new step up because we'll need them. 22:19:08 <321bob321> A south american team will be in the final 22:19:38 <321bob321> Cant hold the cup there and not have one in the final 22:20:41 it's being held in north america tho? and all the hosts are out now 22:21:00 yep. 22:21:40 I think argentina will make it to the semi-finals and lose. that's my prediction (sorry) 22:22:30 geonic: heard an english commentator today explaining viewers that there was a biggest distance between mexico and buenos aires than from london to mumbai, lol. it seems many people think latin america is all just the same place 22:23:20 geonic: it's the most likely scenario. BUUUUUTT...... 22:23:29 I WANT TO BELIEVE 22:24:43 I think Argentina plays Norway in the semifinals and loses... 2:1 22:24:47 * geonic was never heard from again after he lost everything to sports gambling 22:25:15 geonic: no 22:25:29 i think norway is the team that i playing the best in this cup tbh 22:26:12 and the one that would bother me the least if they win (if it's not us) 22:26:59 that striker would've been scalping people 1000 years ago i swear 22:27:05 but it's fine if you want to root for us. we have a saying "argentines can be born anywhere" 22:28:25 I'll def be rooting for argentina and will be sad if my prediction comes true 22:29:19 it's even at the beginning of our constitution: 22:29:19 > "to form a national union, guarantee justice, secure domestic peace, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves, to our posterity, and to all men of the world who wish to dwell on argentine soil" 22:31:27 geonic: i'd be rooting for bulgaria haha 22:32:09 wait until we qualify for the world cup again in ... 2070 :) 22:32:44 geonic: maybe next one would be 180 countries, we never know 22:32:57 <321bob321> Argentina is in > it's being held in north america tho? and all the hosts are out now 22:33:29 lol yes at this rate! our humiliation will be complete 22:33:32 <321bob321> I reckon argentina will win cause i dont think messi will play again 22:33:49 <321bob321> Fairytale ending 22:34:26 <321bob321> Golden boot, world cup winner, best player in match 22:34:42 it would be awesome 22:35:06 messi is like harry potter 22:35:45 <321bob321> Made me laugh when everyone said how could fifa reverse a red card, polotical interence blah blah 22:35:49 griffindor always wins 22:36:00 <321bob321> Fifa is corrupt .. full stop 22:36:21 no shit 22:36:30 it's 100% currupt 22:36:40 always has been 22:37:27 <321bob321> When you have voting from poor countries on choosing the location of the world cup 22:37:55 <321bob321> People only cared cause trumpy was involved 22:38:13 <321bob321> Ima send the fifth fleet if you dont reverse the decision 22:40:24 <321bob321> Only place we can get to accept xmr 22:40:31 <321bob321> Bribe offical in fifa 22:40:59 they probably just use HSBC for that 23:33:27 > dark.vegas 23:33:27 > dark.macau 23:33:27 > Someone likes casinos, lol 23:50:37 @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: ? Sorry I am on the move this week and have not had time to catch up all the messages, what is the question?