11:49:14 <321bob321> Nioc we got a tag 11:49:15 <321bob321> https://github.com/monero-project/monero/releases/tag/v0.18.5.3 11:50:10 <321bob321> Let's see if my woodpecker ci works 11:50:20 <321bob321> Nioc we got a tag <<>> yes, 14hrs ago 13:52:43 nioc: app app ini ws 13:52:45 nya 14:09:50 Gm ppl 14:11:38 Good morning, sneeders 14:59:31 Community meeting in 1hr https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1467 15:55:16 5 min 15:57:54 2 min 16:00:19 Meeting time: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/1467 16:00:40 Gm gm 16:00:50 gm 16:01:27 Hello 16:01:49 hello 16:02:04 hi there 16:02:22 greeting everybody 16:02:28 Hello 16:03:12 3. Community highlights 16:03:51 with polyseed PR merged https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/10765 16:03:51 consider sending some love/appreciation to @rbrunner7 https://rbrunner7.github.io/donations.html 16:03:51 (maybe he can confirm that address is still valid) 16:03:52 The main thing, i think, is that FCMP++ beta v3 stressnet forks in 2 days 16:04:37 Hell yeah 16:04:51 last monero research lab meeting, Rucknium shared a defense against an eclipse attack (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2609.10260) - tested on gingeropolous' monerosim https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20260930#c711528 16:05:40 plowsof: Lovely 16:05:42 there will likely be another release before the stressnet fork for updated seed nodes and (hopefully) some wallet perf fixes 16:06:21 live data collected from 3/6 of monero network seed nodes shows the current situation , Ruckniums patch helps combat it - https://observer.monerodevs.org/d/peersel/2ab1bb4?from=now-24h&to=now&timezone=browser&refresh=1h 16:06:50 combine it with the asmap and the problem now is solved ! 16:06:55 So proud of these geniuses 16:07:07 Fking legends guys 16:07:26 The Git mirror is back up at https://sync.zjackie.ink/monero-project. It only has the core repos, and speeds are better. I tested it myself at around 5–10 Mbps. The crawler’s pulling data nonstop right now. Too bad I2P and Tor access are gone. 16:07:26 (now the simple task of review and testing) 16:07:30 plowsof also found that our "dumb" method of evicting peers from the whitelist allows certain attacks 16:07:40 This makes it a pretty reliable backup.I'll fix the issues and PR syncing problem soon. 16:08:41 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: tldr: the oldest peers are evicted by new ones 16:09:16 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: That is the main premise of the Nyx and Moros attack. 16:09:56 we can learn from bitcoin 16:10:06 there is also a fingerprint which identifies 1.2~k nodes as being none standard - who just so happen to have the largest share of our peer lists 16:10:08 Adversary rapidly fills the white_list with its own peer addresses, displacing the honest older ones. Increasing the white_list max size helps solve that problem. 16:10:45 they have much of the same spy / malicious nodes as we do, but dont have the same issues we do afaik, due to their bucketing and eviction logic 16:12:37 anything else going on in moneroland? 16:13:03 monero tagged today mentioned? 16:13:20 really shows the initial seedlist is a point of centralization 16:13:22 not yet 16:13:35 Not here I believe 16:13:41 I can help with working on the ASMap, if that's needed :) 16:13:47 monero v0.18.5.3 ((the last 0.18 release) was tagged today. reproducible builds ongoing 16:13:56 I may have some delays apologies I'm advance 16:14:01 "tobtoht: most productive quarter since 2018" https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-dev/20261002#c711995 16:14:20 plowsof: For the history books 16:14:35 ty claude/openai/grok/deepseek and those that i forgot to mention /s 16:16:31 No newsletter from this week in monero or revuo this week. monero.observer has a steady stream of updates 16:16:52 monero.observer also has an ongoing funraiser https://monero.observer/monero-observer-funding-2027/ 16:17:29 "PS: if this isn’t funded, I will probably just stop; going back to the CCS or chasing other funding models like sponsorships just doesn’t feel right and it’s rather exhausting." 16:18:17 4. CCS proposals 16:18:53 a. SNeedlewoods - part-time dev Q4 '26 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/701 16:19:05 +1 16:19:10 +1 16:19:15 +1 16:19:22 +1 16:19:58 Sounds like a merge to me 16:20:24 b. slowbeardigger - takeover/repurpose monero integrations https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/700 16:20:42 +1 16:20:52 no response from recanman. serhack left a comment ACKing 16:20:55 +q 16:21:33 ofrnxmr: Yep, also we been working in a couple of merged ones and more to come 16:21:33 I feel confident we gonna do well if this gets merged 16:21:37 recanmann is with the AI now, rest in peace. 16:22:43 im a +1 16:24:22 if there are any objections cc recanman, comment on the MR or forever hold your peace 🙏 16:24:34 c. frstrtr - c2pool: a Monero pool with no operator and no daemon https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/699 16:25:13 this one is interesting, but.. 16:25:27 It is interesting 16:25:31 im here to comment 16:25:43 why no people mining on this pool 16:25:44 we just need claude free for 6 months and to ask sech1 / datahoarder what to do 16:25:53 several times per day* 16:25:55 it doesnt exist yet 16:25:59 read the proposal 16:26:36 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Trying ccs doesn't open for me (on phone) 16:26:37 I'm still not convinced c2pool is cheat-proof https://gist.github.com/SChernykh/636eca0b73181277ea85401b6b1e24ba 16:26:37 sech has already shared a gist which frstrtr has responded to / corrected 16:26:43 why does it use agpl 16:26:45 I saw it a bit earlier 16:26:54 @spirobel:kernal.eu: This 16:27:02 It has to payout the full XMR reward, and there's no way it never overpays some wallets in some edge cases 16:27:05 https://dash.voidbind.com/ 16:27:07 all gaps nearly closed 16:27:07 which means it can be gamed 16:27:17 No miners connected — pool is idle 16:27:36 now polishing final gaps in dust distribution 16:27:40 It's a dash pool. but no miners 16:27:59 @pyxmr2025:mozilla.org: it is just a bootstrap node - hashrate comes from other peers 16:28:18 oh.ok 16:28:20 https://gist.github.com/SChernykh/636eca0b73181277ea85401b6b1e24ba#09--disclosure--verified-in-code 16:28:50 please check my reply 16:28:59 When I developed the first version of p2pool, I tried hard to make that "accounting" algorithm work, exactly what c2pool does. I never managed to prove it to myself that it's cheat free - all my versions could be gamed in various ways. It was in 2021, so pre-LLM era. 16:29:34 with a built in fee, this doesnt need a ccs 16:29:41 @spirobel:kernal.eu: This 16:29:50 if it works, you make money, if it doesnt, you dont 16:29:58 but 16:30:11 why not agpl ? 16:30:17 it is on miners choice - just set to 0 and you will not pay any fees 16:30:40 frstrtr TLDR - if a full reward must be paid out, and "owed" wallets are not owed enough to cover the full reward, what do you do? 16:30:46 Could be MIT but if they wants the GPL virus then AGPL is the choice I think. 16:30:47 whats wrong with agpl - since it is more general than monero-only 16:31:09 Isn't there a CCS rule that code has to be permissively licensed? 16:31:13 MIT should be the way to go imo 16:31:20 @jpk68:matrix.org: Yes 16:31:31 Claude has decided to produce agpl code 16:31:35 And by Wikipedia definition the license they're using is not 16:31:47 @slowbeardigger:matrix.org: hmm havent seen that rule 16:31:59 @frstrtr:matrix.org: Please check ccs rules 16:32:08 c2pool and p2pool would co-exist? 16:32:10 > All work must be licensed permissively at all stages of the proposal. There is no time where your work can be licensed under a restrictive license (even as you're working on it). Your proposal will be terminated if this is not remedied. 16:32:12 And the definition of permissive licensing 16:32:17 I'm having laggy internet 16:32:28 no monero.social just sucks 16:32:55 Nah I'm on a bus rn 16:33:56 @slowbeardigger:matrix.org: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A84gy3QmFg 16:34:05 I would like to abstain from voting about this ccs till next meeting 16:34:11 I can't check the ccs to detail sorry 16:34:17 @syntheticbird: can change that definetely - no problem for monero explicitly 16:34:18 If y'all ok with it 16:34:31 I don't want to start a war but cuprated is AGPL and we got accepted 16:34:43 @syntheticbird: Fml 16:34:56 Maybe Cuprate should be immediately terminated, then /s 16:35:12 As I said with anonero, if it got merget in the past, whatever 16:35:13 But we should avoid for future ccs 16:35:29 Rules about licensing should be a bit more explicit 16:36:29 @syntheticbird: there was a debate about this back then. You weren't present if I remember correctly 16:36:39 the code is mostly MIT 16:36:44 @spirobel:kernal.eu: when cuprate license was being chosed ? 16:37:14 @spirobel:kernal.eu: yeah only the binary is AGPL, everything else is MIT. 16:37:35 just a small part was accepted as AGPL because you werent there to give consent to switch to MIT. that part should also be switched to MIT now that you are there. just makes it easier for everyone. less md feels in the repo 16:37:44 relicensing RN 16:37:53 Thanks Alec 16:38:10 i think its not really clear what the value is 16:38:12 spirobel, cuprate can switch licensing at this stage for the binary? 16:38:15 what is wrong with p2pool 16:38:18 just asking, i dont know; 16:38:24 So: BSD-3, new permissive Monero-only deliverable 16:38:54 everyone in the world cant mine at the same time and get a share of the block 16:38:57 good! 16:39:10 so scale 16:39:42 @slowbeardigger:matrix.org: it will take some time 16:40:00 Alec, is there a fee model? if so, i dont think CCS is the place for this 16:40:01 and the many identifiable outputs on chain, this issue would be resolved in fcmp++ 16:40:22 @spirobel:kernal.eu: boog was in favor of AGPL/MIT and so am I. I don't remember any point where this choice was being stalled. 16:40:35 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: non-mandatory - as a license - anyone can disable any fees 16:40:50 i remember the original person who came up with the license was unreachable also , but yeah 16:41:05 it was probably a week but felt like a year 16:42:00 my bad I meant choice being stalled because I wasn't there 16:42:39 licensing war is a psyop fwiw 16:43:14 SChernykh is the author of p2pool right ? 16:43:20 correct 16:43:28 @frstrtr:matrix.org: what about disabled by default? would align better with the ccs 16:43:28 and if they wanna give some fees. ppl will opt in if they want 16:43:58 @slowbeardigger:matrix.org: Ok will do asap -not a problem - one line change - doing now 16:43:59 A blanket ban on GPL is not a good idea IMHO. GPL is very hard to avoid in some open source software ecosystems. You inherit GPL by package dependencies. 16:44:01 he should probably weigh in on this ccs 16:44:20 @frstrtr:matrix.org: nice 16:44:26 he did earlier 16:44:35 thanks for understanding and addressing. 16:44:37 (sech1) 16:44:38 OooOoo 16:44:52 here > I'm still not convinced c2pool is cheat-proof https://gist.github.com/SChernykh/636eca0b73181277ea85401b6b1e24ba 16:45:03 SChernykh - some files are GPL - rewriting it 16:45:21 yeah I mean as long as the ccs and community can operate on the work being done, meaning open source + fork, its fine imo. 16:46:41 does the proposal expire in 6 months when the claude freee membership is up? does it give you access to fable? 16:46:44 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: seems like 2 llms battling each other 16:46:51 double em dashes are the bullets 16:46:58 MIT is the way to go, but it is only my opinion. 16:46:58 again, CCS rules should be explicit w examples and licensing recommendations. 16:46:58 this we should talk about in a next meeting, just a matter of agreeing in licenses + adding it to the UX/UI :p[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/st6i4bALaFNmelJE ] 16:47:01 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: It is not - but in final stage of being to 16:47:16 spirobel this is the norm. and we use "machine checked" now instead of slop 16:47:42 plowsof: the superintelligence is already watching you better behave correctly for your future slave rank. 16:47:57 I love AI and wish to give myself fully to the singularity 16:47:59 plowsof: why not stick with slop? now we have to be careful with that??? 16:48:32 @syntheticbird: btw you look good on that pfp, like the haircut 16:48:48 jut joking but for ai scraping chat logs im not joking and i have always been supportive of the AI agenda 16:48:48 @slowbeardigger:matrix.org: thank you bro 🫶 16:49:20 It's been months i've been scrapping chat logs and feed it into an llm 16:49:21 behave and obey, you're being watched. 16:49:27 y dont we just get a 10 dollar open code subscrition and let it run wild on p2pool then 16:49:28 shall we move on for now? 16:49:52 my vote is deferring to what sech1 thinks 16:50:02 and DataHoarder 16:50:08 @rucknium: Not avoiding it will make that situation worse 16:50:12 my vote is to let it sit and discussion to happen for now 16:50:42 d. Dennis Trautwein - ProbeLab P2P Network Metrics Proposal https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/667 16:50:50 @jpk68:matrix.org: you know i know you know i know you know GNU hating is always right, but not during meeting. 16:51:12 I need to see a short and concise description of the payout algorithm, and how it handles different cases. Not a huge wall of AI-generated text. And preferably a pseudo-code of Python code implementation of this algorithm. Then I can look into it. I have little desire to read through walls of AI text. 16:51:21 @syntheticbird: My hate for GNU knows no limits :P 16:51:21 *or Python code 16:51:50 i finally voted on this one ^ (downvoted) because it seems pretty trivial to map the network. the hard part is solving the issues, so, as is, im not in favor of the network monitoring 16:52:15 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i agree with @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx in this one 16:52:16 -1 16:52:26 thanks sech1 16:52:46 sech1: ok- will add to gist 16:53:02 1 fingerprint identified (where the confirmation is quick) 1 behavioural fingerprint identified (where you have to connect to the node for a bit). alot of unreachable nodes do not talk to seed nodes. seed node operators can still make estimations of the unreachable population https://observer.monerodevs.org/ 16:54:07 anyone else have anything to add for the probelab discussion? 16:54:21 see plowsof's link above 16:55:36 or you could give me 115 xmr to rent digital ocean droplets and compete with the other chainalysis entity 16:56:17 only if you say it going to take a few months 16:56:26 then they can FOIA request my servers and have even more data 16:56:35 everyone wins 16:56:53 the power of open source 16:57:07 just need to set your log level to 1 or 2, and keep logs of everybody that connects to the seeds 16:57:11 e. v1docq47 - monero konferenco 2026 voice-over and working on xmr.ru https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/683 16:57:50 is it time to merge this yet? v1d said he was taking a break or something like that https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/683#note_37363 16:58:20 imo the top prio got merget and funding went well 16:58:26 so, ill give it a yes 16:59:07 +1 for the monero konferenco 2026 voice-over 16:59:32 v1d's funding usually comes from different sources (.ru) as well 16:59:52 click donate in the footer 17:01:05 links to a page with.... might want to fix that moving forward so readers of the site know the ccs exists lol 17:02:47 no complaints 17:03:35 Ok, we're at the hour mark. Thanks everyone. feel free to continue discussing. Next meeting Saturday Oct 17, 2026, 1600 UTC 17:03:58 thanks yall, take care 17:04:38 thanks for chairing ofrnxmr and all in attendance 17:06:12 been a minute spirobel hello 17:07:46 true. has been a while that i was in a meeting 17:08:12 i was busy worshiping monerochan 😆 17:08:25 (and it is 1 am here ... doesnt fit well with my timezone) 17:11:58 thank you for your service 23:32:57 <321bob321> inshallah my woodpecker ci worked to build latest tag 23:38:39 congrats