00:23:50 <Siren[m]> <Siren[m]> "Is there such thing as a bad..." <- Nevermind, using wallet-gui it finished syncing. It probably doesn't like tiling window managers and that's why it crashed for me previously.
00:28:58 <selsta> Siren[m]: you can disable custom window decorations in GUI Settings -> Interface
00:29:03 <selsta> might work better with a tiling wm
01:36:54 <Siren[m]> <Siren[m]> "Nevermind, using wallet-gui it..." <- I copied over the wallet file after this and now rpc also works yay
02:24:41 <jupiterdev[m]> Hey Monero Team, this is senior software developer with over 8 years of development experience and I'm joining here since Setvin reached out to me and asked to join here.
02:28:15 <jupiterdev[m]> Here's my github.
02:28:15 <jupiterdev[m]> https://github.com/jupiteruwdev
02:36:48 <selsta> hi :)
02:36:52 <selsta> are you familiar with c++?
02:48:47 <jupiterdev[m]> a little bit but not much.
02:50:50 <selsta> ok, monero is mostly written in c++. the gui is written in c++ / qml / javascript
02:50:59 <selsta> there is a website too
02:52:38 <Rucknium[m]> jupiterdev: Haveno, which is a project in the Monero ecosystem, needs devs, too. Their Matrix room is #haveno:haveno.network   and #haveno-dev:haveno.network 
02:58:06 <crypto_grampy[m]> jupiterdev: Beyond Haveno, there's work being done on an XMR<->ETH atomic swap (https://github.com/noot/atomic-swap), and i believe spirobel is doing work on a chrome-extension Monero wallet and may want some help.  For good intro-to-monero guides, check out Zero-To-Monero v2 (https://web.getmonero.org/library/Zero-to-Monero-2-0-0.pdf) and Mastering Monero (https://masteringmonero.com/  <-free download on that page).  There are a
02:58:07 <crypto_grampy[m]> bunch of Monero Bounties with varying amounts of funding waiting for a dev to build them here: bounties.monero.social/
07:09:52 <plowsof[m]> https://monerodevs.org/mastering-monero.html 👍️SerHack  
08:02:53 <monerobull[m]> Did you guys already schedule the next meeting? I'd propose Sunday 28.11 17:00 UTC and would moderate it.
08:02:53 <monerobull[m]> Focus would be GitHub issue #630 hardfork-planning
08:04:22 <monerobull[m]> I can open the meeting issue on GitHub in a few hours
14:09:27 <waterdev[m]> can anyone participate in the meeting?
14:09:59 <sethsimmons> Yes, but spam/distractions won't be tolerated, of course.
14:10:13 <sethsimmons> But anyone is free to join, listen in, and contribute if you have something pertinent to add.
14:10:32 <sethsimmons> But the focus will be for devs and maintainers to talk together, not necessarily the broader community.
14:10:39 <sethsimmons> > <@monerobull:matrix.org> Did you guys already schedule the next meeting? I'd propose Sunday 28.11 17:00 UTC and would moderate it.
14:10:39 <sethsimmons> > 
14:10:39 <sethsimmons> > Focus would be GitHub issue #630 hardfork-planning
14:10:39 <sethsimmons> Thanks fo rdoing that!
14:13:47 <sethsimmons>  * Thanks for doing that!
14:26:37 <waterdev[m]> I mean I'll try to contribute to projects around monero in the upcoming months, once I have more free time, so I guess (just) listening in to how work is managed around here would help me prepare more for it, as I could maybe already gather a idea of a project to create myself out of (upcoming) features.
14:26:39 <waterdev[m]> ^^
14:27:20 <crypto_grampy[m]> knaccc: fyi someone on the i2p subreddit said i2p-zero is a few releases behind.  Just wanted to relay the message.  
14:44:41 <waterdev[m]> should feature ideas regarding the main codebase be posted in here or in #monero:monero.social?
14:47:44 <moneromoooo> Here, at first approximation.
14:48:11 <moneromoooo> Unless it's fuzzy feature requests I guess.
15:01:42 <waterdev[m]> cause I had the idea of adding the ability, that a transaction could contain a field with extra bytes to be send with the transaction, which could contain like 1 KiB of data, for people to be able to send like small birthday wishes, other messages or even small verifications for automated payment systems with their transaction. The way I thought of balancing out the spam and honest use, because - obviously - blocks would get bigger
15:01:42 <waterdev[m]> because of that, could be acomplished by having 4x the network fee when sending such a "fat" transaction. 
15:01:42 <waterdev[m]> I think this would be fitting into moneros goal to become - as I heard and read - a reliable currency opposed to bitcoin, which is more of an investment. Because when you do fiat transactions using a bank, you can always write a description of the transaction, which both parties see.
15:01:42 <waterdev[m]> What are your thoughts on that?
15:10:06 <moneromoooo> I think github has a list of pros and cons somewhere. Look for "memo" and "extra".
15:10:56 <rock[m]> Congrats you just invented tx_extra.
15:11:13 <rock[m]> Also, Fee-Per-Byte
15:13:02 <rock[m]> Neither of those has anything to do with "a reliable currency as opposed to bitcoin" because bitcoin has fee per byte as well as OP_Return
15:16:07 <waterdev[m]> <rock[m]> "Congrats you just invented..." <- thx 🤪
15:16:07 <waterdev[m]> but, I mean even if I wasn't the first one. my point still stands on it. 
15:16:36 <hyc> should never be done in monero.
15:16:50 <hyc> such features make txns non-uniform, which harms privacy
15:17:02 <merope> ^
15:17:07 <merope> Leave the communication out of the blockchain 
15:17:28 <waterdev[m]> hyc: hm, thats a true point
15:17:30 <moneromoooo> I dunno, it can be useful if forced fixed size and the default software decrypts.
15:17:48 <moneromoooo> Then it's still uniform. Though wasteful.
15:17:54 <hyc> yeah
15:18:17 <waterdev[m]> I mean my suggestion was kinda open in forced size and dynamic size
15:18:18 <hyc> we already have the ongoing debate about removing tx_extra tho. no point in just rehashing it all again
15:18:48 <moneromoooo> Doesn't have to be in extra. In fact, if fixed size, it would not be.
15:18:54 <merope> People always complain about scaling and acheiving visa-level tx throughput, then want to add irrelevant data to transactions to be permanently stored on the chain
15:19:11 <hyc> yeah a bit crazy.
15:19:38 <hyc> I can see adding maybe a 64 - 256 byte fixed size field. containing a short URL and a hash, perhaps
15:19:45 <merope> (Not you specifically, but in general)
15:19:48 <waterdev[m]> hyc: I mean tx_extra is supported by like 0 wallets lol
15:19:48 <rock[m]> Imagine wanting to keep all of your birthday cards .... forever .... plus everyone else's
15:20:01 <rock[m]> waterdev[m]: I don't think you're well informed at all.
15:20:38 <hyc> same old story. newguy: hey guys, I have this great idea i'm sure nobody has ever considered ...
15:21:09 <rock[m]> Can't fault them for it, but it's the "no no no, but hear me out" that gets me up in my jimmies.
15:21:20 <hyc> uh huh
15:21:48 <waterdev[m]> rock[m]: relateable
15:21:56 <hyc> anyway, with signature and short url you can store whatever you want arbitrarily offchain, and use signature to verify authenticity
15:22:15 <waterdev[m]> and by that I mean both sides
15:22:31 <waterdev[m]> hyc: that could be a good way, yes
15:23:36 <hyc> still, it's wasting a lot of space for the majority of txns that don't use it
15:23:49 <waterdev[m]> but then the debate could be, url: "how long?"
15:23:49 <waterdev[m]> "isn't that a smaller tx_extra field?" 
15:23:55 <hyc> and we have to inject random encrypted garbage for those txns that don't use it
15:27:26 <merope> Yeah, 256 bytes is ~1/5 of a current 1-in/2-out transaction right now
15:27:45 <hyc> even 64 bytes is excessive
15:27:46 <moneromoooo> Well, we can store 31.5 bytes per ring with triptych IIRC. If we find another byte (ie, brute forcing tx key), you get a free 64 byte signature...
15:28:20 <hyc> I thought triptych was dead, in favor of seraphis
15:28:42 <moneromoooo> I think so. I don't know what seraphis can do exactly here.
15:29:31 <hyc> anyway, 32byte hash + 32byte url would already be plenty. just use a url shortener site like bitly or whatever
15:29:57 <hyc> or just use the hash itself, DHT lookup
15:31:40 <lru> doesn't each txn have a unique ID?  why not setup some other system that references monero?
15:32:35 <hyc> because that then is traceable metadata for that txn
15:32:57 <waterdev[m]> problem would be, that it would required some central third party, where privacy would suffer from
15:37:14 <rock[m]> <hyc> "or just use the hash itself, DHT..." <- This is how other projects work. You store a simply hash pointer in a small amount of bytes, then that is used to derive the connection to a secondary network. The secondary network daemons scan, decode, and bookmark these ingress links from the XMR chain (or any chain that allows arbitrary data).
15:41:12 <monerobull[m]> i have no idea which points from last meeting are still relevant, nor which new ones arrised (for example, is this [https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/8069] even worth putting on the list?) please comment on github or pm me
15:41:17 <monerobull[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/633
15:42:58 <waterdev[m]> <rock[m]> "This is how other projects work...." <- imo that would be a good solution to the problem. but it should be encrypted if done, not like how payment ids are send over tx_extra lol
18:51:04 <selsta> Ledger will put out an update until end of week. Then we can finally release v0.17.3.0
19:39:47 <IanNiculescu[m]> Hello, i know a little java and i want to be able to interact with the blockchain from eclipse, i used the 2 libraries for java and used daemon.getHeight(), but it tells me connection refused. Can someone help me please ?
19:42:47 <moneromooo> Either login or start monerod with --disable-rpc-login (or similar option).
19:54:03 <IanNiculescu[m]> this is so above my head, i don't use any command line, i just added the dependencies in Maven, Created an object MoneroDaemonRpc, and called getHeight() on it, i really am a noob so how can i "--disable-rpc-login" ?
19:54:56 <moneromooo> No clue. Ask in #monero then maybe.
19:57:30 <IanNiculescu[m]> thank you anyway
20:03:23 <dont_thread_on_m> IanNiculescu[m]: did you already check this out? https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/monero-java#using-monero-java-in-your-project
20:06:33 <IanNiculescu[m]> yes this is the exact library i use
20:06:59 <IanNiculescu[m]> i used the sample code but for me it doesn't work
20:08:31 <IanNiculescu[m]> dont_thread_on_m: have you used such a library ?
20:08:49 <dont_thread_on_m> no
20:09:16 <dont_thread_on_m> but you say "i don't use any command line" while the guide suggests you to start the daemon from command line
20:14:11 <dont_thread_on_m> the sample code expects to have a daemon running locally
20:15:16 <IanNiculescu[m]> ahh ok maybe let me try that 
20:45:42 * MohammedMujahid[ uploaded an image: (180KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/xbGviqpOvgOInEjmhoEWvAAb/Screenshot_2021-11-24-01-51-42-77_1c337646f29875672b5a61192b9010f9.jpg >
20:50:28 <MohammedMujahid[> Will the pricing fall??
20:51:23 <moneromooo> If people keep asking non dev questions in -dev, most definitely.
20:51:41 <moneromooo> I dump 50k monero every time it happens.
20:51:45 * moneromooo clicks
20:52:55 <carrington[m]> https://bounties.monero.social/posts/40/clearnet-i2p-torrenting-built-into-monerod
20:53:11 <carrington[m]> If anyone can see any critical flaws with the premise I would appreciate the feedback before any donations are made
21:04:25 <rock[m]> <moneromooo> "I dump 50k monero every time..." <- lol is this an obscure xuaxrw reference? 
21:07:14 <moneromooo> I don't even have an inkling what this is, so no.
21:12:24 <rock[m]> About 7 years ago there was a guy that let the poloniex trollbox get to him and he released a video with music and all that of him market selling 50k or more. The video ended with a young european gentlemen making a face. It's been a while, I don't remember if you were around back then. I still have the video somewhere. There was speculation it was T_F_T but not sure what came of it.
21:12:44 <rock[m]> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ anyway, not -dev
21:13:08 <rock[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/2xs0jt/march_2_50k_dump_recorded_in_video/ <-- the link is dead, but proof im not crazy
21:14:30 <rock[m]> s/gentlemen/gentleman/
21:14:31 <monerobull[m]> <moneromooo> "I dump 50k monero every time..." <- I think I have a new trading strategy :)
21:15:20 <monerobull[m]> to keep it -dev
21:15:27 <monerobull[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/633
21:15:34 <moneromooo> Thanks.
21:16:19 <monerobull[m]> there is no way i accidentally picked just the right topics, please comment if something is missing or already dealt with
21:55:50 <MohammedMujahid[> Smart Contract capabilities. Could it be done on layer 2?
22:17:00 <hitomifujiko[m]> depends how the cake is baked
22:17:00 <hitomifujiko[m]> could you put a contract on a layer cake? yes i guess on the second one, but when you bite it well it would be all paper-ey
22:17:00 <hitomifujiko[m]> why would you want that? are you trying to offend someone?
22:17:44 <hitomifujiko[m]> jokes aside, i dont know what you refer to as layer 2
22:17:44 <hitomifujiko[m]> in my own research though smart contracts could def be implemented within the monero codebase if it was a priority, though most implementations im sure would reduce privacy
22:18:33 <hitomifujiko[m]> plus unless your a crypto genius contracts wouldnt be able to send/recieve XMR unless you can somehow do ring signing and output selection and stuff blockchain side, without any info leaks
22:18:33 <hitomifujiko[m]> so they would likely have to be "free floating" so to speak 
22:19:19 <IanNiculescu[m]> moneromooo: thank you so much it is working
22:20:46 <IanNiculescu[m]> also, maybe a noob question but the syncing that is happening in my prompt that is taking very long, is the stagenet downloading on my computer ?
22:23:57 <hitomifujiko[m]> stagenet shouldnt be downloading unless you specified to sync with the stagenet chain, unless that is what you are doing
22:23:57 <hitomifujiko[m]> someone correct me if im mistaken though
22:24:15 <hitomifujiko[m]> if your using the daemon, what does it say when do you the status command?
22:28:00 <IanNiculescu[m]> i can't put any command in it's syncing rn,  I only used monderod --stagenet
22:39:27 <hitomifujiko[m]> Oh well in that case, ya the stagenet is likely still downloading. give it a good bit and see what happens
22:39:27 <hitomifujiko[m]> if no progress is made, it might be best to restart it
22:39:59 <hitomifujiko[m]> if your blocks.dat file increases in your monero file folder as well you know its still syncing if you still cant access the status command or something like that
23:27:57 <IanNiculescu[m]> hitomifujiko: ok , thank you