00:01:26 <upp> i saw just recently i think on the monero reddit some dev or other expressing regret at the block reward structure as it was originally implemented, but that we just have to live with it now because what else can be done
00:01:33 <upp> which is a logical enough statement
00:02:55 <merope> Yeah, the emission curve is something that you define at the beginning and then (ideally) never touch again unless there are absolutely necessary 
00:03:24 <upp> yeah im not even saying it should be possible to just arbitrarily make it anything any time you want
00:03:26 <jeffro256[m]> @selsta did you mean to put #8828 on the merge list or not?
00:03:34 <upp> just that how its played out and what it is currently is not ideal
00:04:09 <selsta> jeffro256[m]: which PR?
00:04:13 <upp> some mining pool exceeded 51% recently even
00:04:18 <upp> i think that proves the point
00:04:22 <upp> how can you say it doesnt?
00:04:25 <UkoeHB> proves what point?
00:04:53 <upp> proves that if there was an ideal mining incentive then that would not have happened so easily
00:04:56 <merope> Mining pools reaching 51% has nothing to do with the emission curve
00:04:56 <upp> is obviously what im saying
00:05:45 <upp> sure it does
00:05:48 <merope> Also, our conversation is actively interfering with people trying to work
00:05:48 <selsta> saying mining pool reaching 51% proves a bad emission curve is nonsense
00:05:55 <UkoeHB> lol how
00:06:09 <selsta> yes, it's not a dev discussion
00:06:29 <selsta> jeffro256[m]: 8828 does not exist
00:06:52 <UkoeHB> 8228?
00:07:25 <selsta> 8228 is too new to get added to the merge list
00:07:37 <selsta> we wait at least 10 days
02:38:42 <nahnahnah722828[> <upp> "i think the block reward right..." <- The last thing Monero needs right now is a bigger block reward. Bye.
02:40:22 <upp> nahnahnah722828[: thats a fine position to have
02:40:24 <upp> thanks for sharing it
02:40:37 <upp> i was actually after a technical discussion about it
02:40:44 <upp> but either way, thanks for your input
02:42:10 <nahnahnah722828[> upp: sure we can do that if you want
02:42:21 <upp> please?
02:43:04 <upp> actually though
02:43:13 <nahnahnah722828[> bumping up the block reward for monero at this stage when a tail emission is about to begin in may, would be a disaster for monero’s price
02:43:21 <upp> this is not acceptable for this channels chat topics
02:43:27 <upp> if you continue this conversation we will have to ban you
02:43:39 <upp> that or waste a lot of more time discussing why its not appropriate
02:43:43 <upp> instead of just talking normally
02:43:51 <upp> so please move this discussion to a more reasonable location
02:43:55 <upp> for no reason whatsoever
02:44:01 <upp> #monero i guess
02:44:40 <upp> wasting 98% of the channel's chat lines on discussing why your chat is not appropriate for this channel is 100% fine
02:44:56 <upp> so we can continue discussing that indefinitely if you like
02:45:08 <louipc> i think this chan would be more about actual practical development
02:45:17 <upp> you would be wrong.
02:45:22 <louipc> you know patches and tests and pull requests and branches
02:45:28 <upp> wrong again.
02:45:39 <louipc> but ok
02:45:48 <upp> k.
02:48:06 <nahnahnah722828[> monero will 15-20 x by the end of the year
02:48:13 <upp> wow bro
02:48:18 <upp> i mean, really
02:48:30 <upp> that is so off topic it makes my private parts vibrate
02:48:58 <upp> we can talk about that though
02:49:07 <nahnahnah722828[> sure
02:49:07 <upp> as long as its in the context of your original comment not being on topic
02:49:18 <louipc> upp: go to #monero-pools that place is a shitshow where anything goes
02:49:27 <upp> no.
02:49:41 <upp> respond to my logical comments.
02:49:53 <louipc> you can hone your shpiel there is all im sayin
02:49:54 <nahnahnah722828[> upp: I said yes let’s do it
02:50:05 <nahnahnah722828[> Do you hold any Monero upp?
02:50:38 <upp> i already declared myself a monero maximalist (for lack of better terms) earlier, why do you care what my exact holdings are?
02:51:00 <nahnahnah722828[> I didn’t ask for your exact holdings, I only asked if you were holding any at all
02:51:10 <upp> i am
02:51:14 <nahnahnah722828[> great
02:51:28 <nahnahnah722828[> you hold the best money on planet earth
02:51:32 <upp> yes
02:51:37 <louipc> any = exact lol
02:51:37 <nahnahnah722828[> That’s a good start
02:52:18 <entry1[m]> #monero:monero.social 
02:52:42 <upp> i respect calls for social channel context
02:53:03 <upp> my original comment was about block rewards with respect to the security of the network
02:53:11 <upp> i feel like that is still not a social comment
02:53:25 <upp> it is a direct question to the monero/dev community
02:53:55 <louipc> there's a method to propose changes i believe
02:54:28 <louipc> got to the github and start reading. you'll have to get the miners on board of course
02:54:32 <upp> i was just chatting about monero
02:54:40 <upp> is monero chat off topic here?
02:54:40 <louipc> and that is more of a social thing i imagine
02:54:54 <louipc> so actually #monero-pools might be the perfect channel
02:55:03 <upp> is monero chat off topic here?
02:55:21 <nahnahnah722828[> Yes
02:55:29 <louipc> just attempting to help you focus your efforts
02:55:42 <louipc> if you don't wanna talk to miners then all good
02:56:01 <nahnahnah722828[> This is a dev chat my friend upp
02:56:12 <louipc> if you dont wanna learn the proposals procedure fine 
02:56:18 <nahnahnah722828[> They’re not going to change the block reward anyway that’s insanity
02:56:28 <nahnahnah722828[> Could you imagine if BTC’s block reward was changed
02:56:35 <louipc> i can imagine it
02:56:40 <nahnahnah722828[> It would crash 95% the next day
02:56:43 <upp> nahnahnah722828[: i know.  i only commented on block rewards originally because i saw others discussing it.  the chat was not mine originally.  if you have a problem with it, discuss it with those who originated the chat. not me.
02:56:52 <louipc> a lot of things can change in the next 120 yrs
02:57:16 <upp> i will post the chat logs, AGAIN, if necessary.
02:57:40 <nahnahnah722828[> upp: I don’t have a problem with it, but I do have a problem with your suggestion of increasing the block reward, because that’s a terrible idea 
02:58:07 <upp>    rbrunner • By the way, nothing wrong or so, I am just poking around a bit in an effort to learn, caused by a revie
02:58:09 <upp>             • of jberman's ringsize 16 PR
02:58:10 <louipc> yea tail emissioin good enough
02:58:11 <upp>    rbrunner • It's amazing how much "cruft" already accumulated, and the system can still produce those txs with
02:58:13 <upp>             • denominations, surprising in a way
02:58:15 <louipc> stop
02:58:15 <upp>      UkoeHB • the genesis block doesn't have denominations, were denominations really around from the very start?
02:58:17 <upp>  moneromooo • Yes.
02:58:19 <upp>    rbrunner • I saw today block rewards of over 34 XMR, at height 20,000, and got jealous: Why I did not stumble over
02:58:21 <upp>             • Monero earlier, I would probably be rich now :)
02:58:23 <upp>      UkoeHB • lol there are definitely some monero wales out there...
02:58:25 <upp>      UkoeHB • whales*
02:58:27 <louipc> STOP
02:58:27 <upp>  moneromooo • I would rather have found Bekshire Hathaway at the start.
02:58:29 <upp>    rbrunner • Or knowing how successful Apple would become ...
02:58:31 <upp>  moneromooo • Bitcoin might actually be even better than Bershire...
02:58:33 <upp> thats a direct quote from this channel before i said anything
02:58:35 <upp> if you have a problem with me saying something
02:58:37 <upp> you can talk to these people first.
02:58:39 <upp> YOU STOP
02:58:41 <upp> YOU STOP.
02:59:02 <louipc> upp: please use a pastebin next time
02:59:16 <upp> fair enough
02:59:48 <entry1[m]> They are actually developers tho and veered "offtopic" for like 2 seconds
02:59:56 <upp> yes
02:59:59 <upp> that chat is fine
03:00:02 <upp> im not arguing it is not.
03:00:18 <upp> you lot taking 6 hours to make some kind of deal out of nothing
03:00:21 <upp> is what is off topic
03:00:25 <upp> that is my argument.
03:00:51 <upp> off.
03:00:53 <upp> topic.
03:00:55 <upp> YOU
03:01:22 <entry1[m]> #monero:monero.social 
03:01:37 <upp> off topic.
03:01:59 <upp> i was talking about the security of the network
03:02:05 <upp> that might be off topic here i dont know
03:02:12 <upp> but what are you lot talking about right now?
03:02:16 <upp> its way more off topic than that.
03:02:36 <louipc> everything is offtopic, other than your rambling
03:02:51 <nahnahnah722828[> chill out upp
03:02:58 <nahnahnah722828[> increasing the block reward is a terrible idea
03:03:10 <nahnahnah722828[> if anything, it needs to be decreased even more
03:04:02 <louipc> why
03:04:06 <upp> increasing arbitrarily right now might not be right
03:04:20 <upp> it just seems to me that the trajectory was wrong
03:04:27 <upp> is my main observation
03:05:16 <upp> you can spend 12 hours causing a cosmic comotion that my comment is inflammatory
03:05:38 <upp> or you can just god damn fucking talk like a normal person and respond to the obvious logic of what im saying
03:07:10 <nahnahnah722828[> upp: I did
03:08:09 <entry1[m]> How is increasing the block reward of any relevance to better security or better for the network? If the price of Monero goes up, that will theoretically lead to more miners regardless of touching the block rewards
03:09:02 <entry1[m]> If XMR was $1k, people would be more incentivized to mine on shittier hardware
03:09:23 <upp> its like i said earlier, i was just quoting some primary monero dev on reddit who said that the block reward trajectory was wrong from the beginning, and its unfortunate
03:09:36 <nikg83[m]> entry1[m]: More miners? who wants to mine against free bots 
03:09:36 <upp> i basically wasnt saying anything other than that
03:09:42 <upp> so if you think im some kind of asshole
03:09:48 <upp> then you think your lead dev is an asshole
03:11:35 <plowsof[m]> 🛑 /ignore upp 🛑 🙅
03:12:28 <upp> ignore is always good when you cant defend your position
03:12:55 <upp> everyone else is good with that?
03:13:27 <louipc> 🙉
03:14:23 <upp> thats probably what the crypto community is about
03:14:36 <upp> rallying around your 3rd grade personality favorites
03:14:40 <upp> instead of logic
13:10:53 <xxfedexx[m]> Hello! In cryptonote config header file, does 
13:10:53 <xxfedexx[m]> `HF_VERSION_ENFORCE_RCT                  6`
13:10:53 <xxfedexx[m]> mean that RingCT was enforced after the v6 hardfork?
13:22:08 <moneromooo> Yes.
13:22:32 <moneromooo> Well, modulo exceptions.
13:47:35 <moneromooo> After the fork to v6, v1 txes (ie, creating rct outputs) can still be made if it has at least one unmixable input and no more than one mixabe input. Otherwise, they are forbidden.
14:01:57 <xxfedexx[m]> I don't understand why Monero keeps increasing ring size - doesn't it hide the receiver with stealth addresses and the amount with RingCT? Wouldn't something like ring size of 8 be good enough to offer very good privacy? 
14:10:55 <wernervasquez[m]> xxfedexx: The stealth address hides the receiver. The ring hides the sender. Two separate functions.
14:11:41 <xxfedexx[m]> I know, but if the stealth address hides the receiver, and ringct hides the amount, then basically even without ring signatures Monero would still offer decent privacy
14:11:59 <xxfedexx[m]> Why increasing ring sizes a lot? Doesn't it make the blockchain a lot bigger?
14:13:02 <MajesticBank> privacy is state of technology, cat and mouse game
14:15:32 <wernervasquez[m]> xxfedexx: My suspicion is that if there were no rings, you could link all of the inputs together for any transaction with multiple inputs.
14:16:31 <wernervasquez[m]> Thus eroding some privacy. It would be public record that those stealth addresses came from the same user.
14:16:55 <xxfedexx[m]> Oh, I get it 
18:55:22 <selsta> luigi1111: do you have time for merges in the next days?
19:20:24 <UkoeHB> moneromooo: is it maybe that denominations were used but not enforced until after the first hard fork?
19:21:53 <moneromooo> I do not remember whether they were enforced.
19:23:18 <moneromooo> (above the dust threshold)
20:31:30 <luigi1111> Yes
20:56:36 <UkoeHB> THE FUR
20:56:43 <UkoeHB> Damn sorry m
20:57:47 <UkoeHB> The first hard fork enforced ring size 3, so before that could you make a 1 member ring with arbitrary amount?
21:04:32 <moneromooo> You could have 1-rings, yes. Lots of them in the early chain.