04:31:37 <Guest53> I am trying to understand every bit of mathematics done in source code. I have read zero to monero but it not exactly tell about every functions.
04:32:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Try ztm 2
04:32:29 <Guest53> So wht is use of sc_mult() and ge_double_scalarmult_base_vartime()
04:32:56 <Guest53> Have have read the version 2.0
04:33:39 <Guest53> As bulletproo
04:34:49 <Guest53> As proveRangeBulletproof() is the one responsible for creating Commitment and proving range proof
04:37:29 <Guest53> But when it passes control to bulletproof_PROVE(amount,mask), why bp_PROVE usessc_mul() and ge_double_scalarmul_base_vartime()
04:44:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Try this question in
04:44:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero-research-lounge or lab
05:01:02 <rbrunner> In a wallet with about 100,000 unspent outputs it seems it takes 2 minutes for wallet2 to choose 7 or 8 of them for a transaction; choosing 1 is almost instantaneous. Is that known?
05:05:26 <Guest53> Yes ofcourse it would be fast
05:06:12 <ofrnxmr[m]> <rbrunner> "In a wallet with about 100,000..." <- Running on master 0.18 wallet? Or 0.17.x
05:06:22 <rbrunner> 0.18
05:06:34 <rbrunner> So no DNS nonsense :)
05:06:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Maybe the original issue we thiught rhe dns was - the cache
05:08:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://matrix.to/#/!LmpzSzbSMKFmPbCpHe:monero.social/$LmdhrY6b8tYkgWD5wWGg-aPe8viKhJ_O6Didtv-9g84?via=monero.social&via=libera.chat&via=matrix.org
05:09:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://matrix.to/#/!LmpzSzbSMKFmPbCpHe:monero.social/$RJOyrIe3QMLigw-AjphhYXpV2aTCRp5V9zsirPAIuwQ?via=monero.social&via=libera.chat&via=matrix.org
05:09:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> https://matrix.to/#/!LmpzSzbSMKFmPbCpHe:monero.social/$Rx3_eaGSZUB9zjxAJB3fOA2Oo1Sb4xFRvMk6QXhCYH0?via=monero.social&via=libera.chat&via=matrix.org
05:11:55 <Guest53> Is anyone there for my queries.
05:14:00 <rbrunner> ofrnxmr[m]: Yeah, maybe it's this problem.
05:14:15 <Guest53> Just tell me why sc_mul() do
05:14:34 <ofrnxmr[m]> Guest53: Try mrl.. thats where they hang / keep notifications on 
05:14:55 <rbrunner> Yup, if it's about that, you probably won't have luck here: "But when it passes control to bulletproof_PROVE(amount,mask), why bp_PROVE usessc_mul() and ge_double_scalarmul_base_vartime()"
05:14:55 <Guest53> Wht is mrl
05:15:10 <rbrunner> #monero-research-lab channel
05:15:17 <Guest53> Ohk
05:15:24 <rbrunner> Where our eggheads lurk :)
05:15:34 <Guest53> 😅
05:15:39 <rbrunner> The crypto wizzards' den
05:21:01 <Guest53> rbrunner: is mrl active or not
05:22:56 <rbrunner> I think usually at this time of day not too much, the US is still sleeping. You may need a little bit of patience. It's also usually quiet here morning UTC.
05:23:32 <Guest53> Okay
05:23:43 <Guest53> You are from which country
05:23:49 <rbrunner> Switzerland
05:24:19 <rbrunner> (Not doxxing myself, I am not anonymous.)
05:25:54 <Guest53> rbrunner: are you crazy. I was just asking coz when you told USA is sleeping than i thought you belong to countries near me so just asking my neighbour nothing more.
05:26:29 <rbrunner> That wasn't an accusation, just a clarification.
05:26:39 <Guest53> But nice to meet you. Today only I joined this chat so my problem get solved as i was reading source code. But
05:27:19 <Guest53> rbrunner: okay i was just saying in friendly way just joking leave it.
05:27:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Misunderstanding 
05:27:33 <rbrunner> Alright :)
05:28:04 <Guest53> 😃
05:28:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> Rbrunner means
05:28:23 <ofrnxmr[m]> "Her everyone. Before you accuse me of doxxing myself  or giving out too much info, im not an anon. Its ok. I dont care if people know my name or country"
05:28:56 <rbrunner> Exactly.
05:29:03 <Guest53> Have you read monero source code
05:29:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> He wasnt saying "im not telling you more because I dont want to doxx myself"
05:29:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> But I can understand how it could have sounded like that
05:29:26 <rbrunner> Yes, but if I happen to read crypto stuff I usually don't understand half of it
05:30:10 <Guest53> Ya that maths calculation is just something else in theory in crypto books in compared to source code
05:30:35 <rbrunner> But anyway, if I really want to find out something, I may ask, or I debug. That can work wonders, if you can really watch what the program does. Can be really powerful.
05:30:46 <Guest53> First i understand the maths required but now in source code i am not getting any maths.
05:31:08 <Guest53> Okay ya from debug i remembered one thing
05:31:27 <rbrunner> In any case, when in doubt between a book or the code, the code is right. Why it is so is of course another question.
05:31:56 <Guest53> I was compiling monero but some dependency were old when I downloaded them debian told they were corrupted and can't be downloaded
05:32:37 <Guest53> Ya code is right but code logic is very easy to understand but not when maths is done.
05:33:18 <rbrunner> Just think, if everybody would understand, where would the challenge be in this :)
05:33:29 <Guest53> 😃😅
05:33:41 <Guest53> But what about solving challenges
05:34:48 <Guest53> I not imagined that chat on monero could be so active as monero.stackechange is rarely active.
05:35:52 <rbrunner> Yeah, it's not too obvious that these IRC channels here are the place to be, but anyway, you found it now. Just that time zone problem, planet is not rotating fast enough
05:36:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> What is the issue you mention about outdated dep? Has to do with the crypto? Or just monero in general? 
05:36:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Were you building from master/v0.18?
05:36:46 <Guest53> The most current version the new guy fork
05:37:00 <Guest53> Sorry it's git fork
05:39:05 <Guest53> No the issue is related to dependencies required in compiling monero source code i compiled many time it not happened but after installing new os the problem is there now
05:40:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Depends build? Or using your system libs
05:40:27 <Guest53> The cake gives error "Couldn't find required header zmq.h" but zmq5 is installed on my system
05:41:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its looking in a different location than your os has itbstored.
05:41:41 <ofrnxmr[m]> Logs? I dont think debian should be having issues 
05:43:00 <Guest53> But it's giving issues. libzmq5 is installed and dpkg and apt are showing it, yes libzmq3-dev is not installed i tried to install but debian giving package corruption error.
05:43:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> You can always use the make depends or, I prefer gitian
05:43:31 <rbrunner> I am also on Debian 11, without problems. I also think it can't be a general problem, otherwise more people would report it.
05:43:51 <rbrunner> Never had a "package corruption error" in my life ...
05:43:55 <Guest53> Parrot Os 5.0 on debian 11
05:43:57 <rbrunner> That exists?
05:44:25 <Guest53> Older version of parrot was not giving error but this is giving
05:45:18 <Guest53> After reinstalling the newer version of parrot on system after that problem is occurring
05:45:36 <rbrunner> Maybe that ultra-secure system stumbles over its own feet somehow. Would not be the first time, tight security sometimes can go wrong
05:45:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Sounds like your os repos are broken 
05:45:58 <rbrunner> +1
05:46:02 <Guest53> So wht should i do
05:46:27 <rbrunner> Shout at the parrot :) No, seriously, maybe try to contact any Parrot people
05:47:00 <Guest53> Okay i think i should try contacting them. Shout at parrot 😂🤣
05:47:20 <rbrunner> I don't even think it's possible for *Monero* to do something wrong and the result is a "package corruption error" ...
05:47:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Double check your sources, or check parrots online website repo to see if the package is properly maintained,  
05:47:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> Or go Google "parrot os 5.0 libzmq3-dev package corruption on install"
05:47:58 <Guest53> Thanks a lot. I am going to check it now.
05:48:28 <Guest53> See you both later. Thanks once again first time got community feelings.
05:49:07 <rbrunner> Welcome.
06:59:13 <Guest53> I tried to fix libzmq3 by directly downloading from website instead of apt or dpkg and manually downloading all their dependencies after dependencies as one depend on other and other on other. But now it is done.
07:10:22 <hrtsick> rbrunner: i am that same person whom you and that another one helped to solved my problem about dependencies and now it is solved but source code one is now also unsolved hope research lab see it soon.
07:11:26 <hrtsick> I cleared the cookies as i thought libera would have stored me from my ip address as it uses behind my username but it is not doing anything like that so new name as a new guest.
07:15:10 <Guest3490> Butnnow it is showing error related to source code of monero "error: find_embedded_file" was not declared in this scope
07:25:32 <rbrunner> That error does not tell me something, sorry
07:37:04 <willshu[m]> Is there a way to decode the outputs_hex from export_outputs - https://www.getmonero.org/resources/developer-guides/wallet-rpc.html#export_outputs?
07:39:01 <willshu[m]> I would like to see human-readable information from the outputs_data_hex..
07:42:47 <rbrunner> It's a quite complicated binary serialization, I don't think that will be easy. Probably much easier to add code to the Monero code to log what exactly gets written.
08:51:05 <selsta> binaryFate: CLI only please, GUI not yet
08:52:46 <selsta> hyc: randomx fix confirmed working, at least it doesn't crash
09:01:48 <Guest3421> Structs in ge.h these are the curve points so why they are 40 bytes in size as curve point should be (x,y) (32byte,32byte) and when stored as compressed should be of only 32 bytes but example like struct ge_pe3  have four things in it X Y Z T why there are four points and why each is of 40 bytes instead of being 32 bytes
12:07:40 <sech1> selsta what fix?
12:08:02 <selsta> see latest merged randomx pr
12:09:37 <sech1> ah ok
12:37:47 <hyc> selsta: ok good to know. so jit works again, no more UMASK needed?
12:38:53 <selsta> no more UMASK needed, but don't know if it uses JIT or not. they just said no crash without setting UMASK
12:39:32 <Guest25> Structures in ge.h are actually ecc pints (x,y,z) but why are these of 40 bytes instead of being 32 bytes as in book it is writinen points are of (x,y) =(32,32) so why 40 bytes
12:41:41 <hyc> judging from the hashrate he reports, JIT is not working https://old.reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments/w4iihg/segmentation_fault_11/ihi1nql/
12:42:32 <sickhrt> Is there anyone to solve my queries, ecc points are of 32 bytes than why structure in ge.h containing curve points are each of 40 byte or int Fe[10].
12:46:06 <UkoeHB> sickhrt: curve points are not stored in fe structs, finite elements are (elements of the curve field with order q)
12:46:40 <sickhrt> It's ge struct in ge.h for points
12:47:30 <UkoeHB> sickhrt: check ztm2 section 2.3 footnote 9
12:47:35 <sickhrt> And size of q is 32 -something bytes, so every point will be less than that
12:47:38 <binaryFate> I updated CLI hashes in DNS records
12:49:22 <sickhrt> UkoeHB: i checked that but i am not getting why it wants to say.
12:50:32 <sickhrt> See there is a Fq where q is 32-something bytes and every point choosed is within that, am i correct?
12:51:31 <sickhrt> So when these points will be stored in ge struct they should be 32 bytes not 40 bytes
12:51:40 <UkoeHB> sickhrt: curve elements (ge) are multiple finite elements (fe) using different coordinate representations (Jacobian and extended Jacobian iirc)
12:53:37 <sickhrt> Just tell me one thing struct ge_p2 is used for what.
12:55:26 <UkoeHB> `void ge_scalarmult(ge_p2 *r, const unsigned char *a, const ge_p3 *A);`
12:55:49 <UkoeHB> scalar multiplication lol, for example; it's used all over the place
12:55:58 <UkoeHB> as an intermediate representation when doing curve ops
12:56:37 <sickhrt> Ohk so you want to say there is 40 bytes of space just for sake of multiplication
12:57:02 <UkoeHB> no, a ge_p2 is 120 bytes
12:57:11 <sickhrt> Yes i know
12:57:26 <sickhrt> One variable is of 40 bytes i am saying so
12:57:33 <UkoeHB> sure
12:57:34 <UkoeHB> yes
12:57:48 <sickhrt> So there are not for storing curve point but for calculation
12:57:54 <UkoeHB> correct
12:57:57 <sickhrt> Thanks
12:58:03 <sickhrt> A lot
12:58:43 <UkoeHB> you deserialize with ge_frombytes_vartime() and then reserialize with ge_tobytes()
12:59:52 <sickhrt> And that curve point after multiplication they become public key and other all stuff for whatever purpose are of 32 byte cause of compression.
13:00:15 <UkoeHB> uh yes?
13:00:22 <UkoeHB> not sure what you're saying lol
13:00:36 <sickhrt> 🤣
13:00:53 <sickhrt> No problem but i got wht you wanted to say
13:01:01 <sickhrt> Thanks a lot
13:01:08 <UkoeHB> sure thing
13:08:57 <Guest25> Can anyone tell me about bulletproof range maths as ztmw don't have description about it and i am not getting wht other external source are saying.
13:11:12 <UkoeHB> your best bet is https://github.com/AdamISZ/from0k2bp/
13:11:29 <Guest25> Only thing I understood in papers i read is first it takes amount and than bitwise multiply with 2n and than some other maths but wht if someone made range proof of wrong about how security for that is verified i am not getting that part.
13:12:42 <Guest25> UkoeHB: i want to know wht if someone made range proof of fake number than how security will verify it.
13:14:24 <sickhrt> From wht i read i am thinking range proof is not secure thing.
13:18:58 <UkoeHB> If someone makes an invalid range proof, then they can inflate the currency. The point of these proofs is it shouldn't be possible to make an invalid proof except with negligible probability.
16:05:09 <dangerousfreedom> You guys can read at www.moneroinflation.com I have been trying to make a good introduction to these concepts too.
17:12:24 <selsta> rbrunner: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/blob/master/installers/windows/WelcomeImage.bmp
17:12:53 <selsta> can you update this for v0.18? i grepped the source code for oxygen orion and missed the installer image as it's an image :/
17:13:38 <rbrunner> Oh, sure, no problem. Pretty long already since last time :)
17:16:36 <hyc> don't we have some commandline text-to-image tool that can insert the proper text for us and be automated?
17:25:14 <hyc> pbmplus / netpbm prob has a tool to do it
17:26:51 <hyc> http://netpbm.sourceforge.net/
18:21:58 <selsta> yes having the graphics be producible by a tool would be ideal
18:33:35 <rbrunner> Well, yeah, once every year or so :) And you need a special font if you want to stay in style.
18:33:45 <rbrunner> PR opened.
18:39:46 <hyc> what font is currently used for the image?
18:41:23 <rbrunner> I use a Windows font that I picked up somewhere called "Century Gothic" which is close enough to the font the original design work used
18:42:45 <rbrunner> It's complicated: https://www.monerooutreach.org/monero-typography.html
18:46:14 <hyc> do we really need this font for anything other than the word "Monero"?
18:46:30 <hyc> I mean, that's part of the logo, but a release name is just ... auxiliary
18:47:30 <selsta> rbrunner: please add closes https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/issues/3984
18:50:07 <rbrunner> Hope I did it correctly
18:50:29 <selsta> yes
18:51:34 <rbrunner> hyc is trampling my artistic freedom. I am offended.
18:51:41 <rbrunner> :)
18:52:27 <hyc> :P well we have the font definition, I'm sure it's no bother to use it
18:59:13 <hyc> https://linux.die.net/man/1/ppmlabel
21:16:06 <selsta> sech1: can you squash https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/8381 ? and did you test it locally for a while?
21:16:17 <selsta> i've been running it on my nodes but I don't mine so my testing seems useless
22:08:03 <hyc> rbrunner fwiw, using the MoneroGothic font in the image looks weird. Since it's bold face and you're using Century Gothic / not bold
22:08:35 <hyc> Btw what point size did you use for the text? I eyeballed it as 40 pixels high
22:09:22 <hyc> Wondering how much we can automate this anyway, if we wind up with a very long release name we'd have to do some weird word wrapping or widen the image