02:24:59 <jeffro256[m]> vtnerd Is there any particular plan for the src/net/resolve.* files and do they still work as intended? Do they provided any benefit over DNSResolver if I'm not using TLSA?
12:12:18 <lender[m]> Hey guys, I think i may have found a bug in the monero- gui wallet
12:14:22 <moneromooo> If you can fix it, PR a patch to https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui. If not, file an issue at the same URL.
12:14:41 <moneromooo> If you're not sure it's a bug and want to ask to make sure, you can describe what you're seeing here.
12:14:49 <moneromooo> Or #monero-gui
12:17:47 <lender[m]> moneromooo: exactly  this. ty. 
12:18:17 <lender[m]> i can send screenshots here but I wanted to protect my ident and my balance  of other wallets as much as possible. Long story short - i have xmr in 2 diff accounts in the same wallet and my unlocked balance (spread across two accounts) is higher than what i want to send. When i want to send the full unlocked  amount of my wallet to a diff addy, the gui reports 
12:18:18 <lender[m]> here 
12:19:36 * lender[m] uploaded an image: (46KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/lkoAnqHYnMcAGdJUWRffVFnX/image.png >
12:20:47 * lender[m] uploaded an image: (79KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/iKzMlWPgvKtGKaYIFnHslUQU/image.png >
12:21:16 <lender[m]> my understanding is that it should sweep the xmr from a diff account  (in the same wallet) into this tx- and instead it is ONLY showing the xmr in  the account that i have selected. 
12:22:11 <moneromooo> You have accounts A with balance a and B with balance b, and you cannot send b to A ?
12:22:26 <lender[m]> I can bypass this by doing 2 transactions - with 2 diff accounts in the same wallet and eat the tx fees - but I shouldn't have to -
12:22:27 <moneromooo> (ignoring fees)
12:23:02 <lender[m]> i have account A with 20 dollars, and account B with 40 dollars (in the same wallet) and i am trying to send 60 dollars to address C 
12:23:13 <moneromooo> Ah. Then it's not a bug.
12:23:26 <lender[m]> and if i select account A or B and then go to send and 
12:23:28 <lender[m]> it says i dont have enough
12:23:34 <lender[m]> my unlocked balanced is 60 dollars
12:23:40 <lender[m]> so why can i not send.. 60 dollars?
12:23:58 <moneromooo> Because you have 20 and 40.
12:24:10 <lender[m]> stackexchange said diff. 
12:24:13 <moneromooo> Send two txes to C from A and B, or A to B, then 60 from B to C.
12:24:31 <lender[m]> Yes, but it is the same wallet
12:24:43 <lender[m]> a tx from A and B is still from the same wallet
12:24:49 <moneromooo> Yes.
12:25:03 <lender[m]> basically i am sweeping funds from one private key i own to another
12:25:04 <lender[m]> correct?
12:25:12 <moneromooo> Yes.
12:27:29 <lender[m]> exactly
12:27:36 <lender[m]> https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/11686/transfer-monero-to-another-subaddress-you-control-without-copying-the-address-it
12:27:40 <lender[m]> this says diff
12:28:23 * lender[m] uploaded an image: (63KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/monero.social/nvuYYgnbtXubeFWKqcLixInO/image.png >
12:28:59 <moneromooo> It doesn't really do. You may be confusing accounts and subaddresses.
12:29:28 <moneromooo> I guess it doesn't help that technically they're the same. But accounts are there to protect against commingling funds, which is what you're trying to do.
12:29:31 <lender[m]> I have one wallet with diff accounts and diff sub addresses in each account. 
12:29:58 <lender[m]> if i have 150 dollars - across 3 accounts , account 1, 2 3 , 50 dollars each in it's value of xmr
12:30:11 <lender[m]> that is 
12:30:13 <Rucknium[m]> lender: A lot of people use accounts specifically to prevent themselves from accidentally doing what you're trying to do deliberately. This isn't a bug. You should stop using multiple accounts if this is what you want to do.
12:30:17 <lender[m]> with 3 subaddy's / account 
12:30:40 <lender[m]> ah got it. i thought accounts as the stackexchange said just an organizational feature of the gui
12:31:12 <lender[m]> and all of the funds (xmr in this case) are co-mingled and integrated as all of the xmr is seen as being owned by my privkeys - private spend key in this case 
12:31:41 <lender[m]> same in other coins - using electrum as an example. if i have 150 dollars across 3 diff btc addy's, i can spend it easily - 
12:32:06 <moneromooo> They are. It is technically possuble to do it. Accounts are an organizational feature which allows you to prevent it.
12:32:10 <lender[m]> Rucknium[m]: as the stackexchange says " Accounts and subaddresses are merely an accounting feature. The funds are all in the same wallet. Think of it like a physical wallet with multiple sections for organizing. In a physical wallet you might have a section for daily use and a section for emergencies; but you can use funds from either section whenever you like. And funds can be received directly into either as well." 
12:32:54 <lender[m]> so i took it to be just a visual - abstraction (it IS a GUI after all - so people can have neat and organized xmr - management  
12:33:56 <lender[m]> "but you can use funds from either section whenever you like. And funds can be received directly into either as well."" -  how i came to the conclusion that i should be able to spend ALL xmr in ALL accounts with diff sub addy's in the same wallet
12:34:20 <lender[m]> so if one of you sent $100 EU to one sub addy in one account, and another 300 to another sub addy in a diff account, the monero wallet would let me spend the full $400 worth of xmr 
12:34:23 <lender[m]> as it is the unlocked balanced
12:35:05 <moneromooo> If the docs that misled you are in git, feel free to PR a patch that clarifies it.
12:35:27 <moneromooo> If it's something on stackexchange, you can add a comment to the post too.
12:35:32 <lender[m]> and the accouts simply help me organize things. On the backend all of the xmr is still seen by the wallet as "co-mingled" in the sense that it is all merged into the same "unlocked balance"  the sub-addys also 
12:36:33 <lender[m]> ah ok. i organized all of my wallets with this principle in mind
12:36:49 <lender[m]> so what is the point of an "unlocked balance" being merged across accounts
12:36:58 <lender[m]> if one cannot spend it in unison? 
12:37:18 <lender[m]> that is also misleading
12:37:18 <moneromooo> Many people like to know how much monero they have.
12:37:19 <lender[m]> let me re-read what u all are saying
12:37:21 <lender[m]> so i und deeper
12:37:42 <lender[m]> and ty for pointing out the co-mingling issue. that can def also be a sec risk
12:37:44 <moneromooo> But "balance all" shows you how mych you have per account IIRC.
12:38:26 <moneromooo> Oh, you said GUI. I don't know how hte GUI shows that info though...
12:39:34 <lender[m]> i have been reading mastering monero and i also want to und the new innovations - such as Seraphis / Jamtis
12:39:35 <lender[m]> however I have yet to get into the CLI
12:39:59 <lender[m]> and i can't wait for multisig to be implemented either in the gui-wallet or in feather as that will finally allow me to ditch btc altogether 
12:40:00 <lender[m]> but that is a diff issue. 
12:40:04 <lender[m]> moneromooo: interesting
12:40:42 <selsta> the account page shows the balance of each account and also the total balance of all accounts summed up
12:42:01 <lender[m]> lender[m]: with other pple - as multisig works far easier with say electrum than say monero-cli - sadly. otherwise ty all for all that u do. i have the deepest respect for what you do, and u have built a damn fine system and protocol if i may say. would be an honor to join your ranks one day once i level up and und monero deeper. i work in cybersec but u all constantly push me with your excellent system engineering skills and it keeps me
12:42:01 <lender[m]> sharp. So thank you all. 
12:42:26 <lender[m]> selsta: yes it does
12:42:55 <lender[m]> ok so now that i know that the gui will not let me send funds from diff accts in the same wallet to the same addy
12:43:19 <lender[m]> let me see if there is  sweep function so i dont have to actually have a 2nd tx on chain.
12:44:02 <lender[m]> so diff sub addresses in the same account can send funds just to confirm yes? 
12:44:13 <lender[m]> so account " savings" with $500 worth of xmr in subaddy 2, and 500 in subaddy 3
12:44:28 <lender[m]> u can send $1000 worth of xmr to addy C 
12:44:44 <lender[m]> and the guil will allow that yes? 
12:44:44 <lender[m]> just to confirm. 
12:44:53 <selsta> yes
12:45:11 <lender[m]> but if the 500 is in two diff accounts, then it is NOT just a gui abstraction
12:45:22 <lender[m]> as the stackexchange said. those funds are completely compartmentalized from each other.
12:46:17 <lender[m]> even tho the wallet knows the funds are there, and the priv spendkeys are obv loaded , security
12:46:32 <lender[m]> and not having a statistical linkages between inbound tx and outbound tx is more imp for users than convenience
12:46:46 <lender[m]> security should trump convenience every time and u want to protect users from themselves
12:47:45 <lender[m]> if i had to guess as users will try to do things  to undermine their own security whether knowingly or not - so you put this choice into the security design of the wallet in order to prevent potential analysis? even if stealth addys are used, ring ct, and ring signatures with key images? I find that interesting..
12:50:29 <Rucknium[m]> People have written wallet implementations that undermine user privacy. We've seen evidence of it in the blockchain data.
12:52:41 <lender[m]> but i will respect the decision and trust in the judgment.I do not have a knowledge or competence of  monero enough to understand the security implications of co-mingling funds even with the opaque blockchain and ringct and other security features that you do so i am certain that there is just cause and sound logic for why you did this. you all are probably the most competent system engineers and sec folks i have seen in public FOSS
12:52:41 <lender[m]> systems,  and i am of a similar mind. When I first started studyinghow  monero works i was blown away, and I am a longtime veteran in the crypto field. I have spent 18hr days diving deep into the protocol on many levels and it makes me feel like a novice all over again :D. A wonderful feeling to be around people / a community who enjoys pushing the envelope of security and doesn't settle or compromise for mediocrity or for $.  So ty for
12:52:41 <lender[m]> answering the q, and also i can't wait for multisig to be more easily adopted in the GUI. 
12:54:49 <lender[m]> Rucknium[m]: yes, I have been reading about this as well. 
12:55:19 <lender[m]> i have also been testing each wallet for the same reason. cake wallet, monerujo, as well as feather and the wallet-gui to review them 
12:56:07 <lender[m]> and so i mainly trust the official wallet, although feather is lighter in  many ways.. but tor alone can be a risk as tor network usage can flag isp's or others that sth is going on and that stands out...
12:56:25 <lender[m]> lender[m]: blockchain data that is opaque
12:56:28 <lender[m]> without transaction id's 
12:56:33 <lender[m]> ? 
12:56:58 <lender[m]> still.. any holes in the armor undermine overall user security
12:57:03 <lender[m]> complacency leads to compromise..
12:58:41 <lender[m]> and a few devs that are too relaxed, and make weak / incompetent system design decisions can affect not just those who adopt their wallet but anyone who interacts with anyone who uses their wallet. " The only difference between a bug and a backdoor is intent" , and so i am inclined to agree with you. 
12:58:42 <lender[m]> Thank you again. 
12:59:48 <lender[m]> Also do any of you good folks have any resources that i have not read already about seraphis and jamtis? Also im fascinated by how you will deploy the upgrade or rollover people + how backwards compat works for those who will ofc not pay attn or upgrade their wallets for 3-6 months. 
13:00:33 <lender[m]> from a sec and engineering POV im fascinated. i also wondered where i could get test coin so i can also study more of monero on your testnet as seraphis and jamtis really needs to be stress-tested hard obv b4 you all deploy
13:00:51 <Rucknium[m]> lender: For Seraphis/Jamtis, go to #no-wallet-left-behind:monero.social  . There is a text meeting there at 18:00 UTC (5 hours from now)
13:01:35 <lender[m]> as you are doubling the addreses (which have a public view key / public spend key as well as other details that slip my mind) and ur also increasing the ring signature size and increasing other things. Also 
13:02:04 <lender[m]> doubling the pubkey size from 98 chars to 200 if mem serves
13:02:07 <lender[m]> *
13:02:31 <lender[m]> Rucknium[m]: thanks!
13:04:04 <moneromooo> For testnet coins, just mine, difficulty should be very very low.
13:04:16 <lender[m]> idk how u all would facilate say exchanges all being able to switch to the new protocol without hiccups, or disruption or say sweeping funds from the old spend keys to import the value into new, and then everyone ofc has to regenerate addys..  the other thing i was thinking about was this 
13:04:18 <one-horse-wagon[> Seraphis meeting today at 18:00 UTC in Matrix room--No Wallet Left Behind.
13:04:52 <lender[m]> https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/07/chinese_researchers_claimed_quantum_encryption/
13:05:05 <lender[m]> https://www.ft.com/content/b15680c0-cf31-448d-9eb6-b30426c29b8b
13:05:18 <lender[m]> so if this is true, how do you future-proof the protocol and other sub-systems 
13:06:32 <lender[m]> from quantum computing or the ability of say  SIGINT actors or nation-states or other groups who will ofc want to target this and other cryptocurrencies?  I am sure that is also part of the logic of deploying seraphis and jamtis. you all are far from stupid 
13:06:58 <lender[m]> and ofc adversaries actual  crypatanalysis / SIGINT capabilities are never fully known as i am sure you are all too aware. 
13:08:02 <lender[m]> hence your security hygiene/ posture. the new updates are fascinating and i also wondrered if there was any plan in the future to have a Nlocktime style feature for xmr 
13:09:24 <lender[m]> as that def has uses.. either for say a time delay feature, or say for trusts. or to go by say the block height - but then again xmr does use variable block sizes so that perhaps isnt  as cut/dry as for btc. You all have definately gone back to the drawing board and gotten many things right and i apologize for gushing, however i am in awe as i have spent the last few months deep into xmr and understanding it and losing sleep was worth
13:09:25 <lender[m]> it. So i just wanteed to say again - thank you .
13:10:21 <lender[m]> <moneromooo> "For testnet coins, just mine..." <- ah ok. ty. Also my mining system had a weird glitch after an update. will troubleshoot that issue before i bring that to the relevant # here. 
13:12:48 <lender[m]> <lender[m]> "hence your security hygiene..." <- in the gui to be clear. it exists - https://www.getmonero.org/resources/moneropedia/unlocktime.html 
13:12:55 <lender[m]> but only in the CLI if my understanding is correct. 
13:13:51 <lender[m]> sorry to bother you. I will shutup, listen and watch now and figure out /where i can help if needed.
13:14:32 <moneromooo> Monero's unlock time has a different semantics that Bitcoin's, just FYI.
13:14:53 <moneromooo> (that is, don't use it unless you know what it does)
13:15:57 <lender[m]> moneromooo: i have to learn how the cli works first. both with softwallets and with hardwar. 
13:16:17 <lender[m]> hardware. I am sure it is just a few flags. I am far from competent enough to start that just yet. But yes, noted. and ty. 
13:26:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> #monero:monero.social  #monero-offtopic:monero.social 
20:09:35 <selsta> .merge+ 8745 8746 8743
20:09:35 <xmr-pr> Added