03:18:59 Regarding that multisig error "Failed to derive the pupblic key" that was described here a few hours ago, by "Guest92" from IRC: If I had this error, I would debug, so I could watch the exact flow of messages, whether all are really getting processed, and to learn the exact place in code where that error gets detected and thrown. 03:19:38 With "debug" I mean interactive debugging in a tool like VSCode, preferably. If that's not possible, I would think long and hard how to make that possible first. 03:21:05 That stuff is so complex, and what all can go wrong so numerous, and often error messages like "Failed to derive public key" not specific enough to learn the reason, that it's very hard without such interactive debugging. 12:35:55 Hello, is there anyone who can help me setting up monero multisig ? Unfortunately i fail at the very last step (the second exchange_multisig_keys) which returns me a "Failed to derive public key", somehow it only happens on one of three wallets (the affected wallet is on another node) but i tried to use a remote node which also did not work - i 12:35:55 suspect it either has something todo with the wallet creation itself or some permission issue but even with 777 permissions or importing an external newly created wallet it throws this error. Would pay for help to fix this annoying issue. 14:08:43 Oh, this Guest probably has no access to any IRC history and did not see my answer from this morning. A try to my answer accross, if they are still online: 14:08:45 https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-dev/20240930#c437786 17:32:35 I'm going through https://github.com/woodser/monero-cpp/ and https://woodser.github.io/monero-java/monero-spec.pdf and really liking this API ... I also like that it's (for the most part, at least) shared between monero-cpp, monero-ts, and monero-java 17:33:18 I've been trawling around for wallet API changes as I look for something to try and reproduce from a Rust-only base, looking at SNeedleWoods' changes, as well 17:33:50 does anyone have any other API-related work to share for inspiration/guidance? 17:37:17 It needs to be guarded 17:37:44 Running 2 connections at the same time is problematic 17:38:06 What content can I store on the Monero blockchain? 17:38:27 I believe someone is looking into that 17:40:16 Does anyone have an idea why the "Failed to derive public key" error message appears on the second round of exchange_multisig_keys in a of 2 of 3 multisig wallet, it works on 2 wallets locally and fails on the third wallet which is on a server which runs its own node - i also tried it with an trusted remote node but it still fires this error 17:40:17 message, not sure how to debug it as i cannot get anything else than that error message 17:41:07 What content can I store on the Monero blockchain? 17:41:49 Guest11: https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-dev/20240930#c437786 17:42:10 Hope I finally catch you online this time, that's my third answer to you :) 17:42:19 Juliu, refer to Monero Research Labs logs. I was trying to remind myself of the Monero-fork-based Monero-centric game which uses the chain to store some information but it's escaping me at the moment 17:43:11 sneurlax, I was just wondering if someone couldn't just store child porn on a blockchain, call it publicly the pedo-chain, and then would easily have destroyed a whole blockchain 17:44:18 Juliu: It's limited to a quite short length now, you won't be able to store child porn directly there. And well, for 10 years you could store links to such, and the sky never fell down ... 17:45:16 ^ this, rbrunner is correct. there's the short tx_extra field which could be used to split files up across many txs, but you'd need some custom software to stitch them all back together. 17:45:37 the other way I'm acquainted with is only visible to the recipient of a tx and involves lower-level cryptography 17:45:41 rbrunner, well, you can probably store an image, can't you? Or break it up into several blocks. I don't see how it can be prevented. And than it's on the blockchain forever 17:46:12 there's similar on the bitcoin blockchain forever. it has to be stitched together using custom software. such are the risks of permissionless, decentralized software 17:46:16 I'm starting to think that blockchains are a bad idea, besides the obviously bad things of course 17:46:29 Yes. We have tons of pictures already on the blockchain, the "Mordinals". Inlcuding some pornographic stuff. That was the reason the length limit was introduced 17:46:55 blockchains are the worst idea, and yet the best we have achieved thus far 17:46:58 Hey, the Internet was a bad idea :) 17:47:02 But couldn't someone just use that as an attack to discredit a whole blockchain? 17:47:12 sneurlax, best for what? 17:47:32 I'm not being serious, I was just meaning to make a parallel with that saying re: capitalism, I think 17:47:42 or was it democracy? ha 17:47:43 I see 17:47:50 Probably both 17:48:06 "Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time" 17:48:10 Well, too bad blockchains are based on a hoax 17:48:16 s/democracy/blockchain 17:50:59 I have a motto: "Reality trumps everything else". If you have an attack in theory, and almost every blockchain is vulnerable, and it does not happen in a decade, nowhere, reality wins and it's no danger. 17:51:20 All blockchains are build on 100% trust 17:51:21 For whatever reasons. Maybe for reasons we don't even understand. 17:51:33 *built 17:51:55 No, that's 180% false. A solid blockchain works while not having to trust anybody. 17:52:10 You mean 180° I guess. And no, it's not false 17:52:17 You just don't understand the technology 17:52:47 You're trusting on cryptography 17:55:52 rbrunner, change my mind 17:57:34 I agree with your statement that I don't understand blockchains and rest my case :) 17:57:42 ok 17:58:09 It's the same for almost all people who claim to know how the technology works. They actually don't 17:58:16 They think cryptography works 17:59:39 While it doesn't, as everybody knows 17:59:47 Except people around here :) 17:59:47 Most people don't know that 18:00:07 I bet most people in here also believe that cryptography works, but they can't tell you why 18:02:12 Blockchains and crypto-"currencies" are 100% trust 18:02:37 Zero knowledge proofs are 100% trust 18:03:14 "Don't trust. Verify!" is 100% trust 18:07:16 Juliu, this isn't -dev related talk, please move this discussion to #monero or #monero-offtopic or #monero-opps or something 18:07:35 sneurlax, it's quite related to the technology 18:08:05 it's not related to development. it's not a concrete proposal in terms of code for a change 18:08:18 please cut down on the irrelevant spam. 18:08:30 Yes, I'm disturbing all the other conversations in here that are currently going on, I see 18:08:50 Oh, now it's irrelevant that the technology is fake? 18:09:41 I need to log in for an offtopic channel, but not for the real channels? WTF 18:09:45 well you're fucking with the visibility of my last message to monero developers specifically with nonsense 18:09:56 you clearly don't understand what you're talking about. begone with you 18:10:05 sneurlax, true. Sorry 18:10:17 I clearly understand what I am talking about and you don'T 18:10:36 You have no clue how the technology really works, like most 18:10:39 prove it in #monero or #monero-offtopic 18:10:47 Prove what? 18:11:08 that you can post in the correct chatroom, at least 18:11:13 Told you, I can't enter offtopic without logging in, even though I don't have to log in here. Seems an idiot set up that channel 18:11:17 Have you heard about the tangle? 18:14:36 Blockchains are not based on math. Educate yourself 18:15:18 Blockchains are based on unproven and likely untrue assumptions. Hence they're based on 100% trust 18:15:31 mods please kick/ban Juliu until they offer some development related commentary 18:15:45 sneurlax, kick me for telling the truth? Lol 18:15:53 go to @monero-schizoposting 18:15:57 They is plural. Educate yourself 18:16:19 Nothing schiezp about what I said. You can easily look it up on wikipedia 19:51:57 https://woodser.github.io/monero-java/monero-spec.pdf 19:52:38 I think I'm going to try and target this API for Rust and Dart unless woodser sees an issue with that 19:53:09 if anyone can recommend any other standard besides the work to update the monero-project/monero standard by SNeedleWoods, I'd appreciate any pointers 19:53:31 I should leave and solve P vs NP, but I'm procrastinating 19:54:04 but https://github.com/woodser/monero-cpp/ and woodser's suite of integrations is going to be very helpful for testing new impls against our monero-project/monero ground source of truth 19:54:57 Checking that 2 programs do the same is impossible in general 20:06:05 sneurlax the commit folks were interested in a dart ffi to monero-cpp too 20:07:50 MrCyjaneK/monero_c has a great Dart FFI wrapper as well 20:07:53 https://github.com/MrCyjaneK/monero_c/tree/master/impls/monero.dart 20:09:29 maybe that can be useful for them. 20:11:09 but I do hope to add another good Dart tool based on and with the same API as monero-cpp... possibly using monero-cpp itself and building it as a static lib depending on which build process I like better when comparing monero_c and monero-cpp 20:12:13 whereas on the other hand approaching the topic from Rust I have an opportunity to make a fresh/green fields API for FFI use (using monero-serai/monero-wallet's lower level APIs) so have been looking around for good targets to emulate