01:04:31 luigi1112: pls merge + force push tag before sleep so that I can prepare everything tomorrow 02:56:21 let's see 03:02:44 luigi1112: everything good now, sorry for 3 tags :D 03:03:11 ^_^ 04:27:30 Hey luigi 04:28:33 are you, or the gui dev team planning to make any changes to the monero gui to make it look more modern and nice? monero gui has been looking the same for 4+ years, i think an UI upgrade to make it look modern and fresh would be extremely appreciated ? perhaps make a bounty for this ?... 04:28:41 message for @everyone 04:29:00 This is a message for everyone ^^^^\ 04:29:05 s/^^^^\/^^^^/ 04:29:50 MESSAGE TO EVERYONE ; hey luigi1112 , selsta are you, or the gui dev team planning to make any changes to the monero gui to make it look more modern and nice? monero gui has been looking the same for 4+ years, i think an UI upgrade to make it look modern and fresh would be extremely appreciated ? perhaps make a bounty for this ?... 04:30:56 I don't think a UI upgrade is currently planned. We don't have the developers like for profit companies to rewrite the UI every couple years. 04:31:17 it's better to focus on bug fixes and missing features 04:32:11 selsta: thats why i suggest put a bounty for it 04:32:25 either way, any word on Tor integration for simple mode? 04:32:50 like it's better to focus on Tor integration instead of a complete rewrite 04:32:56 also, if I may, we should add a feature for simple mode : if the send fee is over x amount of monero, make an option to automatically reject the transaction and block the node from ever connecting to you ever again 04:32:56 complete UI rewrite 04:33:03 moneroextremist[: do you agree with this ? ^ 04:33:19 I have added this now: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/3897 04:33:36 the next step will remove the node scanner from simple mode and only connect to community hosted nodes 04:33:43 this is great but not enough in my opinion 04:33:54 add in option in the settings to have a maximum fee 04:34:04 if the fee is over the maximum fee, automatically reject transaction 04:34:39 also, for the love of god, can we have an option to have transaction caps ? my biggest fear is to accidentally send out my entire balance selsta 04:35:02 the real solution is not to connect to malicious nodes in the first place, otherwise it's a cat and mouse game 04:35:10 i hate the fact that theres a "send entire balance button" i actually wish we could make it so theres a high transaction cap. Like on trezor when you send over $10k it sends a huge warning saying you'll send a lot of money 04:36:09 * moneroextremist[ uploaded an image: (27KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/HeNtewCzglaAyabwUCCWNIlk/dfd.png > 04:36:34 selsta: this button scares me so much. IM always so scared to accidentally touch it and send my entire balance to someone while trying to pay for a small transaction 04:36:37 but if you press this button you still have to confirm twice 04:36:44 yes but its still here 04:36:53 it always makes me paranoid i accidentally touch it 04:36:56 it has 0 use case 04:37:04 if i want to send my entire balance im gonna type it out 04:37:19 but you have to consider the fee 04:37:46 if you manually type out the full balance there is not enough left for the fee 04:38:02 thats a good point... its still way too close to the amount box and way too big 04:38:06 there should be another way 04:38:12 put that button somewhere else 04:40:05 but where? 04:40:18 it has to make sense UI wise 04:40:25 you could put it in the settings, "send entire balance" 04:40:28 trezor doesnt have that button 04:40:35 trezor doesnt have a way to send out your entire balance 04:40:40 i may be wrong on this but i dont beleive they have 04:40:44 security wise this is terrible 04:41:29 i could be drunk and accidentally press that button, i could be stressed trying to send a small $5 transaction to a friend and accidentally press that button without looking properly and my entire balance is gone 04:43:19 fwiw we never had a report about this yet 04:47:23 selsta: another thing i think would be great, would be to go in settings, and setup a "max transaction". If you're trying to send any transaction over (say, $10k) it will reject the transaction and ask you to type a different password to avoid typos. 04:47:30 What do you think about that one? 04:47:47 selsta: 05:11:17 but what's the point of this? 05:12:46 moneroextremist[: it might make sense if you split your coins in multiple accounts 05:52:39 "but what's the point of this?" <- avoid accidentally sending 10 xmr instead of 1xmr etc 05:52:46 avoid accidentally sending a lot of xmr by typo 14:29:42 Wallets should not connect to random nodes, why was simple mode designed like this ? 15:06:27 because centralization is bad 15:06:49 shit, why even have a network? the monero core team can just run 1 trusted node 15:06:53 all problems solved 15:20:53 "because centralization is bad" <- Make users put remote node addr themselves 15:23:24 yeah. the dream for simple mode was to make it so a user could download software and start using monero out of the box. that dream was dreamt without awareness of assholes 15:24:04 making users put in remote node addy was the way it was before 15:25:01 "these withered hands have dug for a dream" 15:26:59 These wizard hounds have dreamt for a dog. 15:33:12 i mean, at this point, with the availability of so many third party wallets, perhaps remote nodes could be buried in the GUI somewhere. are we at the "enough nodes is enough" level of nodes on the network? 15:33:58 well, so many being like 3 15:34:02 meh 15:44:16 https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/faq.html#does-electrum-trust-servers 15:47:07 yeah. once i matrix download coding skills i wanna do the multi-node connection thing 16:08:59 nikg83[m]: didn't Electrum have this exploit where it would display rich text sent from the server? 16:09:33 but yes I know they fixed it 16:10:49 but they had their own set of issues with malicious nodes 16:17:39 "but they had their own set of..." <- Yes, I was just pointing out how they are doing fee thing with checking with multiple nodes 16:19:27 it is something that can be explored in the future but for now I will hardcode community hosted nodes in simple mode. 16:19:49 no more random nodes 17:30:41 so there's cakes nodes, rinos node ... 17:36:50 gingeropolous: ideally all nodes run the monero-beta branch I shared yesterday 17:36:58 so that there are no connection and performance issues 17:46:10 hrm. ok, well, i guess we'll have to reach out to community remote node operators then 17:47:16 i mean, because this is Centralized Fun, should we just hardcode node.getmonero.org, and whoever manages the DNS entry just manage a round-robin CNAME list there or something? 17:47:58 that would allow for remote node list management without needing a new release when xyz goes down or gets pwnd 17:48:46 cause if getmonero.org gets pwnd well its all on fire at that point 17:52:50 I thought about hardcoding the node IPs 17:53:15 but don't know yet 17:56:47 is there any problems to downloading the new monero gui update through the gui using a remote node ? can a node operator make you download malware through the gui like they did in electrum ? selsta 17:57:17 you don't download update through remote nodes 17:57:33 they aren't involved at all in the update process 17:57:53 so no, we never had this issue that Electrum had 18:16:11 > I thought about hardcoding the node IPs 18:16:18 bad idea 18:16:46 but we are cooking idea / css 18:17:03 explain why and suggest something better :P 18:17:14 I would like to avoid running a centralized server 18:17:51 that returns a list of remote nodes 18:18:11 it's actually about incentive to run remote node 18:18:21 software that will scan all active remote nodes on internet 18:18:44 18080,18081,18089 18:18:50 + add node to the list 18:19:13 Oh god no. I added the p2p based public node list, it was a stupid idea. It just gives scammers and spies an easy way to advertise their traps. 18:19:18 but that's what we want to go away from 18:19:19 yes 18:19:23 I wish I'd never done that now. 18:19:29 software will check uptime and broadcast tx trought nodes 18:19:39 checking integrity 18:19:48 it's basically impossible 18:19:58 of nodes and for best 100 / 200 monthly 18:20:07 reward with 30-40$ each 18:20:56 I will just hardcode nodes from long time community members, everything else is a mess 18:20:57 it'll be gamed 18:21:22 this node scanner only brought problems and support requests 18:21:35 plus it helped malicious actors gain data 18:23:19 hardcoded nodes makes it easier to spy on ISP level 18:23:36 i cant imagine what the load would be these days for "long time community members", or the level of service capable 18:23:38 even community members are trusted 18:24:34 id say just drop remote nodes from the GUI, or bury it deep in a setting. if people want instant-on user experience, they can go 3rd party 18:25:57 MajesticBank1: ISP level spying is way less of an issue than blockchain analysis companies setting up spy nodes (which is already happening) 18:26:15 according to https://monero.fail/map , that dudes node has seen ~12k nodes over the past 24 hours 18:26:17 also nodes use some kind of SSL, don't know what that means in regards to ISP 18:26:36 thats 3k less than what bitcoin has according to https://bitnodes.io/ 18:27:13 enough ppl have downloaded the GUI to run a node. if ppl download the GUI and can't use it instantly and drop it entirely so they can use cakewallet or whatever, thats fine 18:27:42 it's self-signed SSL by default 18:28:10 but can be signed with free https cert 18:30:01 https://node.majesticbank.is:18089/ 18:30:17 The community SSL certs should DEFINITELY be hardcoded if we're hardcoding node IPS, otherwise attackers will just spoof being a community node 18:30:32 *IPs 18:31:46 or we just put it right in the users face with 3 modes: Simple / Secure / Advanced 18:33:52 Simple does some version of remote node shenanigans with bootstrapping. Secure only allows for tx broadcast following full blockchain processing.. and advanced is the existing advanced 18:34:04 That just avoids the problem because are going to choose "simple" either way just like everyone uses default options when installing a program 18:34:16 *because people 18:34:55 yeah, but at least it presents the fact that simple is not secure 18:35:18 jeffro256[m]: can you explain how IP spoofing would work? 18:35:46 Simple / Secure / Custom 18:36:25 Monero thrives because privacy and security and ON by default, they're shouldn't be a "simple and insecure but you don't know any better. It's not named secure so please don't blame us if it goes wrong" mode 18:36:38 aye 18:37:08 well if thats the ethos then remote nodes should be dropped entirely 18:37:24 from core implementations. right? 18:37:43 or can we dance the dance of ..... waffly waffles 18:37:44 @selsta Not IP spoofing, but using their own SSL key in the middle since before being bootstrapped the node wouldn't know what the correct SSL public key to talk to 18:38:50 there must be a way to protect wallet from remote node except tor / vpn 18:39:32 Well remote nodes are a valid use case for someone like me who doesn't have enough space on my laptop and connects to their node at home 18:40:00 is the fee attack problem, finding real input or collecting monero-gui users IPs? 18:40:59 even tor / vpn can be malicious 18:41:03 the route doesn't matter 18:42:08 oooh i just used the GUI download and verifier. such awesome 18:47:49 yeah. so i can't copy and paste from the GUI, but selecting simple mode has that wall of text that includes "they could track your IP address, track your "restore height" and associated... etc etc" 18:48:29 and involves a checkbox indicating the user understands the privacy implications 19:53:38 I would love to understand things by ticking a checkbox 20:02:48 lulz 22:04:26 hey 22:04:29 selsta: luigi1111 realistically speaking, how much would it cost to have a complete UI overhaul? 22:17:03 moneroextremist Are you stylistically or what? 22:17:11 *talking stylistically 22:45:17 moneroextremist[, what kind of new and sexy are u talking about? granted, I guess I don't use many new and sexy apps on my desktop. but cereal... u have any examples?