01:57:48 <selsta> i can't really imagine yet how that would look in detail
03:52:48 <gingeropolous> yah know, people that buy games to blow up stuff and explore virtual worlds wait hours, maybe days, for these 100+ GB things to download
03:55:08 <gingeropolous> i mean maybe this cert thing and trust stuff is the way to go, but it seems ... meh . I mean, whats the point? The point, as i remember it, was to create "instant on" so noobs can create a wallet and start transacting with monero. Say, perhaps, those noobs that want self custody, pullin their coins off exchanges
03:55:59 <gingeropolous> (as an aside, what needs to happen is to have exchanges run remote nodes. Well, any monero service really)
03:57:25 <gingeropolous> but perhaps if ppl want to experience instant-on, just to see the tech work, maybe they just run testnet
03:57:40 <gingeropolous> well, stagenet
03:58:14 <gingeropolous> and we setup a dumb website where people can go and spend their stagenet monero
03:58:48 <gingeropolous> this isn't a tomorrow solution though, thats fore sure
03:59:27 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Lws + tor service + mobile wallet support = instant on custodial wallets
03:59:40 <nikg83[m]> * > <@gingeropolous:libera.chat> i mean maybe this cert thing and trust stuff is the way to go, but it seems ... meh . I mean, whats the point? The point, as i remember it, was to create "instant on" so noobs can create a wallet and start transacting with monero. Say, perhaps, those noobs that want self custody, pullin their coins off exchanges
03:59:41 <nikg83[m]> Lws + tor service + mobile wallet support = instant on non-custodial wallets
03:59:47 <gingeropolous> but the chains only gonna get longer, the userbase will only go up, and the "load", as it were, is only gonna intensify
04:00:20 <gingeropolous> whose running the lws?
04:00:22 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: For those users rino type services ? Or plain remote nodes 
04:00:55 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: It’s not integrated yet
04:01:04 <gingeropolous> i mean the servers
04:01:43 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Don’t think anyone is, other than mymonero or similar services; lws doesn’t support subadress yet 
04:02:49 <gingeropolous> i don't see how that does much... are you saying that the "tor service" part functions to hide the connection of a viewkey with a particular user?
04:03:04 <gingeropolous> i mean, with that we're just dumping viewkeys everywhere
04:03:07 <jeffro256[m]> > i mean maybe this cert thing and trust stuff is the way to go, but it seems ... meh . I mean, whats the point? The point, as i remember it, was to create "instant on" so noobs can create a wallet and start transacting with monero. Say, perhaps, those noobs that want self custody, pullin their coins off exchanges
04:03:07 <jeffro256[m]> Yes it will still be an "instant on" for users; the experience will not change. But hopefully now there will be fewer fee attacks, etc since the nodes will be trusted 
04:03:32 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Tor service so users can connect to their lws behind firewalls and without being noticed 
04:03:45 <gingeropolous> oh there own lws. right.
04:03:51 <gingeropolous> their own.
04:03:53 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Yes
04:04:06 <gingeropolous> well a noob aint running their own lws, thats the point :)
04:04:58 <gingeropolous> "But hopefully now there will be fewer fee attacks, etc since the nodes will be trusted" ..... but what about muh trustless
04:05:14 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: if it’s made easy one/two click solution, surely ppl will use as they don’t like wallet sync anyways 
04:05:31 <nikg83[m]> Friends can share same lws
04:05:36 <gingeropolous> but that requires a sync
04:05:43 <nikg83[m]> * Local Friends can
04:05:49 <gingeropolous> yeah, the friends thing is also a way to go
04:06:24 <gingeropolous> like, the GUI pops up "Do you have a Monero friend that you trust? You can use their blockchain"
04:06:42 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Yah it’s a node so it will keep syncing, wallets once they connect they can see balance instantly 
04:07:18 <gingeropolous> no i get it nikg83[m] . The point, as i understood it, was to create an instant on for someone that just downloaded the GUI
04:07:23 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: I mean say you have a non geek local friend, you can share your tor lws address instead of asking him to use say mymonero 
04:07:38 <gingeropolous> you download the GUI, generate an address, withdraw from your exchange, and it shows up. All within 20 mins 
04:08:54 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Should show up as soon as exchange sends
04:09:09 <gingeropolous> yes
04:11:06 <gingeropolous> i guess, sorta my point, is that instant on might not be necessary
04:11:20 <gingeropolous> well, its definitely not necessary
04:11:40 <gingeropolous> but that all the nonsense might not be worth it
04:12:15 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Instant on for new users would be remote node, lws as stuff if they have someone holding their hand or they are geek enough 
04:12:32 <gingeropolous> yes, i know
04:13:04 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Ssl certs ? I think it’s good 
04:13:54 <gingeropolous> well i guess having one wall to defend is better than fighting out in the dark forest
04:15:20 <gingeropolous> i mean, are these trusted SSL certified nodes.... payment processors?
04:15:31 <gingeropolous> money transmitters?
04:16:12 <jeffro256[m]> Just normal nodes with a publicly open RPC port 
04:16:31 <jeffro256[m]> > well i guess having one wall to defend is better than fighting out in the dark forest
04:16:31 <jeffro256[m]> dark forest is more fun ;)
04:16:52 <gingeropolous> hardcoded into software to perform the singular task of creating a relaying transactions for the user
04:17:18 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Ohok, so you are against trusted node list ? 
04:17:20 <gingeropolous> need to call 1800lawyer
04:18:14 <nikg83[m]> I had same idea, but for this fee asshole nodes issue this was a easy fix
04:18:14 <nikg83[m]> Hard fix would be to check say 10  nodes for fee and then decide the correct one 
04:18:26 <nikg83[m]> * say 10  other nodes for
04:18:45 <gingeropolous> naw that hard fix is to tell the user to sit the fuck down and wait for their node to sync :)
04:19:02 <nikg83[m]> Something like bitcoin wallets do
04:19:44 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: Hmm 🤔 
04:19:46 <gingeropolous> yeah ive always been a fan of that one
04:19:54 <gingeropolous> the multiple nodes blah blah
04:20:08 <gingeropolous> but its so damn easy to sybil the p2p list
04:21:09 <nikg83[m]> gingeropolous: There was that bitmex ip filtering, gives IPs from different asn networks 
04:22:45 <nikg83[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/7935
20:54:00 <selsta> .mege+ 3920
20:54:04 <selsta> .merge+ 3920