00:21:27 <gingeropolous> hrm, this would be neat to tie into Primo , the hash for web service thing
00:24:32 <QuickBASIC> I just googled "primo hash", thanks G.
00:39:14 <gingeropolous> here yah go QuickBASIC . https://repo.getmonero.org/selene/primo . no idea if ure primo hash google got u there
00:46:26 <QuickBASIC> The joke was that googling "primo hash" brings up something unrelated, but ironically tangentially related to Monero.
00:48:36 <gingeropolous> i know :)
01:26:12 <garth> Custom monerod fails to build on fresh Ubuntu 20 VPS: https://paste.Debian.net/1209858
01:27:24 <garth> 8GB RAM so not a memory issue 
01:32:54 <garth> Ah I did a make clean and restarted and now it worked. No idea…
01:33:34 <garth> Maybe 4 cores of git on a 8GB RAM VPS was too much
01:35:20 <hyc> there are definitely parts of the build that require more than 2GB RAm per cpu
01:47:56 <garth> Interesting ok
01:59:14 <hyc> ^ this wouldn't be an issue if it was all written in C ...
02:45:01 <garth> Well time for a code base rewrite Mr Chu
02:45:11 <garth> ;)
02:51:41 <QuickBASIC> While I'm certain he could do it, the benefit of the current codebase is the amount of auditing it's seen and with that trust that the community has in it. A complete rewrite is bound to have some non-breaking change that might expose Monero to an attack.
03:03:37 <hyc> pluses and minuses\
04:00:34 <sudo_ki[m]> 'Create a separate restricted user account for testing. p2pool is untested and can have serious bugs/vulnerabilities!'
04:00:34 <sudo_ki[m]> Is this still relevant? 
04:28:35 <selsta> probably yess
05:36:30 <sech1> very much yes
05:37:18 <sech1> QuickBASIC multiple connections from the same IP open a DoS attack vector, so it's safer to disable them. Users behind provider's NAT will just connect to different nodes from the IP they share.
05:42:20 <sech1> old p2pool found 3 more blocks: 2439532, 2439566, 2439636, and it looks like those 35 MH/s finally switched after finding 2439636
12:58:58 <QuickBASIC> I'm pretty sure I saw a estimated payout in p2pool status last night, but I'm not seeing it this morning and my wallet still says 0 XMR (I did already set refresh-type full).
13:08:20 <sech1> pool didn't find a block yet
13:52:29 <jaska087> woah, got balance!
13:52:30 <jaska087> D:
13:54:01 <jaska087> gj whoever found the block
14:06:23 <gingeropolous> sech1, did the recent p2pool update require a monerod update as well?
14:06:45 <sech1> no
14:06:49 <sech1> same branch
14:07:38 <gingeropolous> hrm. my p2pool stratum reports that I have no hashrate pointing at it
14:08:15 <gingeropolous> this was after changing my mining address
14:08:21 <gingeropolous> and restarting p2pool
14:08:50 <gingeropolous> uptime would be nifty on status somewhere maybe
14:09:36 <gingeropolous> i wonder if my xmr address in the xmrig config would screw things up if it is different than that in the p2pool config?
14:10:16 <QuickBASIC> I guess my question is, why would I see estimated balance 0.0039... etc at 00:00 UTC last night, but this morning at 12:00 UTC it says Estimated balance 0.000000 but not see a payout... Shouldn't it just count up until a block is found?
14:10:58 <gingeropolous> QuickBASIC, your shares can get pushed out of the sidechain window
14:11:07 <QuickBASIC> Ohhhhh
14:11:23 <gingeropolous> the sidechain is only so deep. if you find a block in the sidechain, and then a mainchain block isn't found... yeah i think u got it
14:11:36 <QuickBASIC> So if a block isn't found during the window, the shares are lost and don't count?
14:11:49 <hyc> yeah I lost a bunch of shares
14:12:36 <QuickBASIC> Aww. Okay. I understand. Because it's PPLNS not PPS.
14:12:50 <gingeropolous> i guess i just haven't found a share recently
14:13:10 <gingeropolous> i wonder if my diff got too high when the 30 Mh miner wasn't in the p2pool?
14:15:56 <gingeropolous> what a jump: 2021-09-01 14:15:00.9692 SideChain received a longer alternative chain: height 4 -> 11552, cumulative difficulty 2070369 -> 404312660193
14:16:22 <QuickBASIC> I wonder if it would be beneficial to clarify that in the 'status' command before mass adoption because we might have people that won't understand and will think they've lost something that's owed to them. Maybe (Estimated Payout if block found in window).
14:17:03 <QuickBASIC> The current mining paradigm, it only shows you pending payout that actually has been earned so I could see room for confusion.
14:17:46 <jaska087> Would it be impossible to calculate est. for avarage time to get paid? "you need to mine min. x days"
14:18:21 <QuickBASIC> I'm a relatively technical user (I'm a support engineer for Microsoft 365/AzureAD for God sakes) and I'm confused by this stuff lol.
14:28:37 <QuickBASIC> sech1 Regarding the IP address question, the reason I'm excited for p2pool is it's ability to extend mining and therefore Monero financial freedom to the unbanked by allowing them to get payouts much sooner using low hashrate hardware than using a pool. Someone pool mining on old hardware etc they might wait months or more to hit a threshold, where p2pool they might not. The reason this matters is university students, people in remote villages, 
14:28:37 <QuickBASIC> shared housing situations, hotels, apartment buildings, shelters, or homeless might only have one public IP amongst many and these people that need it the most won't have access to run it on a VPS.
14:29:35 <QuickBASIC> This is a philosophical thing and not technical, but I thought it beared mentioning.
14:34:56 <sech1> Renamed "Next payout" to "Block reward share"
14:39:06 <Inge> QuickBASIC: heh. if you aren't confused by Azure Ad's .. intricacies, then nothing fazes you.
14:45:49 <QuickBASIC> Inge I can hard match an AD account to AzureAD and compute the b64 for the ImmutableID in my head. Jk, but yeah it's overly complex.
14:47:19 <QuickBASIC> Bit not true "engineer" despite the title. 9 times out of 10, I'm teaching admins how any of it works rather than actually doing anything too complex.
14:49:30 <QuickBASIC> I helped a nurse do an Exchange migration of 1000+ people after their hospital decided to fire their Exchange admin the other day. Because "Office 365 doesn't need an Exchange admin because it's cloud" according to their budget committee lol.
14:50:31 <Inge> ooof
14:50:50 <Inge> someone should definitely do a pluralsight course on securing office 365 if nothing else.
14:50:55 <sudo_ki[m]> <sech1> "very much yes" <- Is a restricted shell prudent enough?
14:51:55 <sech1> I don't know, imagine p2pool does "rm -rf /" because of some bug
14:52:54 <sudo_ki[m]> Gotcha :)
15:05:20 <murr4y> Made a working build on arch linux \o/
16:34:09 <aypro> does the new 0.17.2.3 monero release include the code needed for p2pool ?
16:34:21 <hyc> no
16:35:06 <hyc> the monerod patch set was too large and came in too late to be reviewed in time
16:40:45 <QuickBASIC> I believe selsta said it will definitely be in 0.17.2.4 though right?
16:42:09 <hyc> probably, if there's a 17.2.4 at all
16:42:26 <hyc> whatever the next point release I suppose
16:45:33 <selsta> there is some other things I want released so there should be a v0.17.2.4
16:48:29 <hyc> are they minor enough for .2.4, what would qualify it for v0.17.3?
16:49:34 <selsta> we can also do .3 I guess
16:52:56 <hyc> since p2pool support bumps the RPC version numbers, it seems to qualify 
16:54:17 <sech1> https://p2pool.io/ [Dislaimer: I'm not a frontend dev]
16:55:14 <hyc> ugh that color scheme
16:55:19 <hyc> dis is definitely laimer :P
16:55:37 <sech1> It's Monero colors (sort of)
16:56:39 <hyc> plain black&white would be easier to read. you can add some colored borders if you want
16:57:00 <sech1> white background? I heard it's not trendy anymore
16:58:27 <sech1> all right, black & white it is
16:58:45 <hyc> nah, do whatever you like, don't mind me
16:59:48 <sech1> shades of grey are def better
17:01:26 <hyc> ah yeah that works
17:01:41 <hyc> I also just took your page and set the background to black
17:10:20 <hyc> or something like this http://highlandsun.com/hyc/p2pool.io.html
17:11:18 <jaska087> what is dat border
17:12:52 <sech1> damn, I like that color scheme
17:13:04 <sech1> reminds me of Pornhub, lol
17:16:51 <hyc> poolhub :P   pornpool. something
18:09:59 <QuickBASIC> sech1 I like the gray background. Looks nice.
18:10:34 <QuickBASIC> Off-white on dark grey is in... And orange is Monero themed
18:11:09 <QuickBASIC> And people can just CSS theme it if they don't like.
18:13:31 <hyc> i think the monero orange is a bit redder than that ;)
18:17:11 <QuickBASIC> Just used a color picker on logo. Looks like f26822
18:18:15 <sech1> Monero orange is too orange for the text
18:27:53 <QuickBASIC> ^ agree
18:33:50 <garth> Alright my VPS p2pool is up and running with 25k KH/s 
18:35:29 <garth> Was pretty easy to set up tbh. Im not even a dev. I’ve set up a few private pools for fun before though, so maybe I’m not a good example of the average user
18:38:25 <garth> Hey sech1 I’m curious what you think about monerod’s zmq. The guy who wrote it was always behind on his CCS
18:38:40 <garth> Milestones and I always wondered if it affected the code
18:39:02 <selsta> vtnerd took zmq code over a long time ago
18:39:16 <garth> Oh ok I should maybe ask him
18:39:37 <sech1> zmq is still in half-done state, it misses a lot of APIs
18:40:31 <garth> If you think it’s important we could create a todo list for any interested devs to try and complete it. But maybe you think there’s more pressing things to work on
19:01:05 <QuickBASIC> garth do you mind letting us know what VPS provider you use. I worry that some might not like anything crypto related, but I was considering setting up my own personal node that doesn't use my home ip for privacy.
19:01:14 <garth> Digital Ocean
19:01:33 <garth> They’ve been fine as long as you don’t mine
19:01:56 <garth> Although maybe others know how to do it that doesn’t trip their sensors
19:09:50 <QuickBASIC> Yeah not planning on mining on VPS. Just want a node I can connect to from mobile phone that's not NAT or on dynamic residential IP.
19:10:29 <QuickBASIC> (one that I control I mean, I know there are some public ones)
19:12:09 <jaska087> Got dynamic address, hasn't changed for 2 years
19:12:11 <jaska087> :P
19:30:22 <CzarekNakamoto[m> i was running full node on vpscheap.net and it worked not bad
19:30:35 <sech1> pruned node is enough
19:31:01 <sech1> p2pool also have "--light-mode" parameter for low memory vps, but it'll be slower
19:31:04 <sech1> *has
19:31:29 <jaska087> resulting in uncle shares?
19:31:40 <jaska087> or just slower?
19:32:37 <sech1> it will use RandomX light mode, so it'll spend additional 10 ms verifying each block. So more uncle shares in theory
19:32:49 <sech1> but the real difference will be probably negligible
19:33:44 <sech1> that's the only place where it will be slower in light mode (also the initial sync because it checks RandomX hashes too)
19:34:08 <jaska087> Haven't seen any uncle shares yet, though I only send 2-3 shares every 24h
19:35:10 <sech1> I see 4 uncles total in PPLNS window
19:35:20 <sech1> in status
19:35:32 <jaska087> yes
19:35:39 <sech1> that's like 0.2%, not bad for 10 second block time
19:39:58 <QuickBASIC> How resource intensive is p2pool? I'm running it on a 7 year old laptop with 4GB ram and a mobile Celeron and it seems fine.
19:43:26 <sech1> as long as it has enough memory, close to 0% CPU after initial sync
19:43:58 <sech1> it only needs to wake up and use CPU when it receives a block from other nodes, or a share from stratum server
19:55:46 <QuickBASIC> Good to know. I suspect based on your description,  someone could compile and run it on an ARM device like a phone as long as it's connecting to a remote node.
19:56:56 <QuickBASIC> Although, the last time I compiled xmrig in Termux I only got like 120 h/s on a modern device.
19:57:40 <sech1> It should be able to run on ARM devices using a remote monerod
20:00:35 <QuickBASIC> That's so cool. This is such an amazing thing that you've made. Not trying to blow smoke up your ass, but you solved one of the last problems of centralization Monero faced.
20:01:27 <bugs_> fyi on fedora there is no gss library supplied - p2pool links fine without it
20:01:33 <bugs_> $ diff CMakeLists.txt.1 CMakeLists.txt
20:01:33 <bugs_> <       set(LIBS ${LIBS} pthread gss dl)
20:01:33 <bugs_> >       set(LIBS ${LIBS} pthread dl)
20:01:45 <jaska087> btw sech1 how would you start a new sidechain on your own?
20:02:11 <jaska087> change pplns window/block time?
20:02:20 <jaska087> don't connect to any nodes?
20:02:24 <sech1> just use custom config.json (--config config.json)
20:02:41 <sech1> change pool name, set password if you want it private
20:02:52 <sech1> then only nodes with the same config will be able to join it
20:03:19 <sech1> https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/blob/master/config.json
20:03:25 <jaska087> oh sorry, I haven't really checked the config.json file :D 
20:03:35 <jaska087> my bad
20:25:20 <gingeropolous> hrm, p2pool might be a good way to get transpeer to get some legs
20:25:35 <gingeropolous> well, nvermind
20:26:36 <gingeropolous> or maybe. basically, use p2pool to allow a way to advertise the existence of all of the available p2pool sidechains
20:29:03 <gingeropolous> yay, my hashrate came back
20:30:27 <gingeropolous> so i think i asked this already, but is there a max for how long the pplns / sidechain can be?
20:45:45 <sech1> if it's too long, coinbase transaction will get too big
20:47:01 <sech1> also, if you go beyond 2160 blocks, minimal payouts gets too small (compared to transaction fees)
22:16:03 <QuickBASIC> Dang it. I forgot to cp config.json when I compiled earlier today and I think I was mining on a sidechain.
22:37:40 <Hisha> When I use the status command and get this: Block reward share (est)  = 0.005203966594 XMR and see nothing in my wallet is something wrong or just wait longer?
22:46:14 <QuickBASIC> That's the amount you would get based on your current shares if a block is found, but not guaranteed. If your shares fall outside of the PPLNS window before a block is found, they won't count.
22:46:50 <nioc> why was PPLNS chosen? 
22:46:59 <Hisha> ahh ok
22:50:55 <QuickBASIC> You'd have to ask sech1 to be sure, but it's probably impossible to do trustless PPS because there's no custody.
22:51:04 <Tonux> Is it normal to have loads of "failed to save peer list" errors?
22:55:32 <aypro> never had that, maybe it doesn't have write access to p2pool_peers.txt
22:56:34 <QuickBASIC> Pretty sure you can just delete the file and it will recreate it.
22:57:00 <Tonux> Hmm, looks like it was never created, shall investigate further.
23:00:04 <Tonux> Well, that's really, really strange. It p2pool cannot create the files when I run it inside gnu screen. Hmmm.
23:02:36 <Tonux> Wait. Sorted it.
23:02:59 <Tonux> Looks like p2pool doesn't like to be called from outside its directory
23:44:04 <garth> Wooo got three shares
23:45:14 <garth> I’ve had one error. If I SSH into my VPS and use ‘screen’ to isolate the pool and it’s open and I resize my SSH window it freezes. Not sure if this is important. The problem doesn’t appear if I just keep the window the same size