05:59:33 <abberant[m]> the p2pool hashrate is insane considering the amount of workers 
06:00:33 <abberant[m]> the average miner has like 2mh/s
06:03:20 <abberant[m]> oh, looks like one of the 30 active addresses has 70mh/s
06:03:57 <abberant[m]> wonder if theyre trying to promote the pool on the charts/faster blocks for the rest of us, or just running a botnet
06:12:08 <abberant[m]> https://p2pool.observer/miner?address=4B6tWMyFe3aNyxqvbYF9wNfsrPmaTGv149qi39m49wRSYUxch7CNRtjULeam11z14pS8UYYgmtkdJb71Y6frosYf8z9BkKV
06:25:11 <provsalt[m]> pretty sure it has to be xmrvsbeast address lol
06:27:34 <abberant[m]> oh they route others hashes through p2pool? would make sense then
06:27:42 <abberant[m]> either way its a good thing for p2pool
06:28:36 <provsalt[m]> no I think he rents hashrate to the pool just so the pool finds blocks faster.
06:29:45 <abberant[m]> bless
06:30:19 <abberant[m]> im surprised so few people use the pool still but the barrier of entry of running your own node is kinda high
06:31:31 <abberant[m]> I got all my friends who casually mine to run their own p2pool nodes and hook up to my monero node so we're like 5 of those 30 active miners, as the other 5 dont have enough hash power for shares in the window
06:44:24 <xmrvsbeast[m]> join the p2pool bonus HR raffle to get a piece of that hash ;)
06:44:34 <xmrvsbeast[m]> https://xmrvsbeast.com/p2pool/
06:50:35 <xmrvsbeast[m]> as for the barrier to entry, it would be nice if some windows wiz packaged up an installer with everything configured as it should be so new people can just click through and have monerod/p2pool set up and ready to go 
06:51:04 <hyc> assuming they have enough disk space on main C: drive?
06:52:06 <abberant[m]> do you have to port forward at all? probably not if your node is just a reciever
06:52:11 <xmrvsbeast[m]> well it could ask where do you want to store the chain and say drive C: does not have the space
06:52:40 <xmrvsbeast[m]> yes you do not need to port forward just to mine
06:52:51 <hyc> abberant[m]: it's peer 2 peer. data flow is bidirectional regardless
06:53:20 <xmrvsbeast[m]> outgoing connections are sufficient
06:53:39 <hyc> if you don't port forward thru your firewall, then you can only connect to other nodes that *have* forwarded thru theirs
06:54:15 <hyc> so it's always better for overall network health to do it, and allow other nodes to reach you
06:54:26 <xmrvsbeast[m]> yes,  that is true, however people using an installer will not do that anyway
06:54:40 <hyc> but as long as you can reach someone else's node, it will work
06:54:52 <xmrvsbeast[m]> so let's leave that to power users
06:55:53 <xmrvsbeast[m]>  I got 10 XMR for anyone who can do this properly
06:56:14 <abberant[m]> I wonder if people who care enough to benefit from using p2pool over trusting a pool operator would be too lazy to figure out how to run the stuff themselves though, otherwise 130 gigs is a pretty big sacrifice
06:56:45 <hyc> prob set it up for pruning. only 30gigs then\
06:56:45 <xmrvsbeast[m]> it would use pruned chain by default
06:56:56 <abberant[m]> yeah
06:57:34 <hyc> but I'm always wary of making it too easy. better to encourage people to learn a little bit more, than cater to them in complete ignorance
06:58:48 <xmrvsbeast[m]> agree, however if safe, sensible defaults are enforced many more will actually learn in the long term
06:58:59 <xmrvsbeast[m]> than if it is too complicated to even start
06:59:33 <hyc> i'm not too sure of that. if it's a 1-click install it and it just works, they will never think of it again
07:00:53 <abberant[m]> I mean in that case if theyre only going to bother with 1 click installs then its better that they give their hashpower to their own node than someone else 
07:01:53 <abberant[m]> but at the same time, running all the nodes and 30g is a sacrifice that I dont feel the majority of people who only bother with 1 click installs will make if they can just trust a pool operator
07:03:18 <xmrvsbeast[m]> a nice gui window pops up with tabs, monero, p2pool, xmrig with some basic options as check boxes, it will be easier than mining at a pool
07:03:19 <abberant[m]> I wonder why more people dont use p2pool rn, I would guess its the node setup tho, majority of it is probably complication rather than lack of computer resources, so in that case it would be a good idea
07:03:31 <abberant[m]> xmrvsbeast[m]: this is true
07:05:09 <xmrvsbeast[m]> I have been answering p2pool questions everyday from mostly windows people for past 2 weeks
07:05:28 <hyc> it's always windows people ...
07:05:32 <abberant[m]> I wonder if monero would ever implement a p2pool like system natively so that solo mining would be much easier 
07:05:46 <hyc> every software project I've ever been associated with, the big support burden is always windows
07:06:55 <hyc> yeah I don't see any reason not to just integrate p2pool directly into monerod
07:06:58 <xmrvsbeast[m]> imagine replying to reddi comment with try p2pool and a link to the trusted installer, there would be 1000 miners on there in 2 months
07:07:08 <xmrvsbeast[m]> *reddit
07:07:26 <abberant[m]> xmrvsbeast[m]: youre starting to win me over :/
07:08:58 <abberant[m]> hyc: smart people should make like a css proposal for this
07:09:34 <abberant[m]> would be awesome to be able to natively solo mine with fast payouts
07:10:10 <provsalt[m]> <xmrvsbeast[m]> "a nice gui window pops up with..." <- would be fun to do this. unfortunately I have exams from tomorrow onwards
07:11:45 <hyc> trusted installer - that could be tricky in itself. we'd need a completely separate setup for signing/verifying the binaries and the total package
07:12:44 <xmrvsbeast[m]> yes ideal would e integrated into GUI wallet release, but I think that would be more difficult than a standalone installer
07:12:53 <abberant[m]> hyc: people could just do that manually if they care?
07:12:53 <xmrvsbeast[m]> plus it would take 2.5 years
07:14:32 <hyc> and then we'll be inundated with the inevitable "couldn't get it to work" because antivirus quarantined the whole package
07:14:40 <abberant[m]> xmrvsbeast[m]: "official" software got a reputation for being slow? only been apart of the community for half a year so wouldnt know
07:14:45 <abberant[m]> hyc: lol
07:20:23 <xmrvsbeast[m]> might be easier just to make it a linux vm
07:21:55 <hyc> there ya go
07:22:21 <hyc> nah, it'd be horrible for performance
07:22:31 <hyc> not much point in mining that way
07:22:52 <abberant[m]> is wsl like that?
07:23:16 <hyc> I'm not sure how well wsl performs, haven't tested it
07:23:26 <abberant[m]> could just run nodes in there but why at that point
07:24:41 <abberant[m]> just need to run 3 executables with options?
07:25:03 <hyc> well, you need to generate a wallet at some point
07:25:16 <hyc> so you need to throw wallet-cli in there too at least once
07:25:46 <hyc> or monero-gui if that's the only thing users will understand
07:25:48 <abberant[m]> for privacy on p2pool?
07:26:28 <xmrvsbeast[m]> I think leave the wallet out of it, have users input their wallet address in GUI
07:26:33 <hyc> yes, you don't want to mine directly to your main wallet
07:26:35 <abberant[m]> ^
07:27:09 <xmrvsbeast[m]> there is enough out there how to use moenro wallet, the wallet GUI is easy enough to create a new wallet
07:27:43 <abberant[m]> yeah, if people care about new wallet they can just make a new one themselves and plug in address 
07:29:09 <xmrvsbeast[m]> just a simple check to make sure it is primary account address
07:31:00 <xmrvsbeast[m]> keep the scope limited, maybe just monerod and p2pool then an instruction slide on how to point xmrig at it
07:31:17 <hyc> that might be better
07:31:20 <xmrvsbeast[m]> since most are already familiar with xmrig
07:31:28 <hyc> esp since they could run xmrig on multiple PCs
07:32:17 <xmrvsbeast[m]> yes, point your miners at this address (....) example xmrig -o .....
07:32:49 <hyc> I'm thinking, if going to the trouble of making a 1-clock node like this, also bundle in tor and i2pd
07:33:30 <hyc> then monerod will have in and out conns regardless of firewall
07:34:13 <abberant[m]> I think xmrig should be part of the gui, its complicated if youre not familiar with that kinda stuff. xmrig with gui got some traction on r/moneromining
07:34:32 <hyc> if p2pool also supported tor/i2p then no firewall concerns at all
07:34:51 <abberant[m]> especially if first time miners are told to use p2pool
07:36:08 <xmrvsbeast[m]> for sure, it would be a bonus to have xmrig integrated but not crittical
07:37:18 <xmrvsbeast[m]> windows people really love GUI, if they can see it they will click it ;)
07:38:59 <xmrvsbeast[m]> then have it spit out gui xmrig pre-configured for them to put on other computers on their network and it connects to the p2pool node
08:55:15 <jaska087> using tor/2p will probably make uncle shares skyrocket
10:30:10 <DataHoarder> hmm, maybe I can look into having that installer and some power shell magic, but it has been years :’)
10:30:52 <DataHoarder> used to maintain one for an open source game server/service software 
13:42:56 <xmrvsbeast[m]> <DataHoarder> "hmm, maybe I can look into..." <- nice :)
18:24:19 <QuickBASIC> DataHoarder, It might be easier nowadays, because WSL2 and Docker desktop have direct integration. Really you just have to have them enable WSL2 windows component, install Ubuntu from store, and run your existing docker in it. I definitely don't have the chops to make that happen though.
18:24:49 <DataHoarder> WSL2 is a VM indeed, WSL1 is nasty windows Kernel
18:25:49 <QuickBASIC> Yeah but if it's just running monerod and p2pool the performance it isn't that bad. If you open the ports to the WSL instance they can mine on Windows to it.
18:26:31 <QuickBASIC> WSL2 is running a real kernel using hyperV so the performance isn't nearly as bad as WSL1.
18:27:45 <DataHoarder> yeah VM is better in that area at least, HW-accelerated
18:27:57 <DataHoarder> I run most things on VMs already, even xmrig :)
18:28:02 <QuickBASIC> But IMO running another operating system in a VM and then running Docker on top of it and then pointing miner... Too many points of failure and would be hard to support for Windows users.
18:28:36 <DataHoarder> I see it as "fine" if they want to get it running, but not the default way tbh
18:31:27 <QuickBASIC> You can pass a command to bash.exe to run something inside of WSL, so literally an installer could be made to enable the Windows component for WSL2, and open ports, the the heavy lifting is deploying the docker and that could be done inside of the VM.
18:32:21 <QuickBASIC> Then they can have a nice windows shortcut to bash.exe that starts the docker inside of the VM. The just point miner.
18:32:23 <DataHoarder> maybe once there is a Monero official release with the RPC pr, otherwise building monerod as it's doing now will either take too long or run out of memory
18:33:01 <abberant[m]> cant it just use monerod from p2pool release?
18:33:10 <abberant[m]> oh with rpc nvm
18:33:23 <DataHoarder> there are a few issues with it :)
18:33:35 <DataHoarder> https://github.com/WeebDataHoarder/p2pool-compose/blob/master/docker/monero/Dockerfile
18:34:13 <DataHoarder> this specifically builds just monerod of all the set of targets you can pick, without using all cores it takes too long on CI :)
18:37:42 <sech1> xmrig and docker don't do well on the same windows machine
18:40:48 <QuickBASIC> sech1 I was suggesting running xmrig.exe natively and deploying p2pool in docker as a possible suggestion for Windows users to having issues running everything. (XvB indicated this has been a pain point for his username). Not running xmrig in docker container.
18:41:16 <QuickBASIC> s/username/userbase
18:41:27 <sech1> even when xmrig runs natively, it can't use MSR if docker is installed
18:41:38 <QuickBASIC> What? Why?
18:42:02 <QuickBASIC> Like Docker desktop for Windows?
18:43:08 <QuickBASIC> But yeah DataHoarder, as you said when there's an official update to monerod things are a lot easier.
18:43:37 <DataHoarder> QuickBASIC: Docker Desktop is basically VMs
18:44:53 <QuickBASIC> DataHoarder> QuickBASIC: Docker Desktop is basically VMs <--- I'm not sure I know enough about docker to know what the difference is. On Windows, they're all VMs right, but they've added the ability to run docker inside WSL2 from docker desktop on Windows.
18:45:40 <DataHoarder> on Linux they are not "vms" but containers
18:45:54 <DataHoarder> on windows, it starts a VM running linux, then uses that for containers
18:47:45 <QuickBASIC> Anyway, all I'm saying is I agree that this is easier for Windows users once Monero is updated because Windows users that can't figure out how to run monerod can just point their at a remote node that is open, right? Then they just open p2pool.exe and open xmrig.exe from shortcuts on their desktop and walk away.
18:51:42 <QuickBASIC> It'd be helpful if cmdline options were supported in a config for p2pool à la xmrig, so you could distribute a p2pool config with the zmq-pub pointed at a remote node if you're XvB and have a userbase that can't figure it out. So he could just say, download this config to the same folder as p2pool.exe add your payment address and run it. Voila!
18:51:42 <QuickBASIC> Because apparently changing a cmdline parameter is hard for Windows users?
18:53:39 <QuickBASIC> <--- I don't get it because I remember needing to change IRQ parameters in config.sys to get my sound card to work. These gen-z windows users (my kids included) struggle to understand the concept of a filesystem.
18:56:31 <DataHoarder> remember kids, git is an object-storage filesystem with a bolted version control system on top :)
18:56:50 <DataHoarder> if going the docker way might as well just give them a Hyper-V template image
18:57:24 <jaska087> running docker will just complicate things for your "avarage joe"
18:58:10 <jaska087> If they can't run at least one extra app (p2pool) then they shouldn't be mining
18:59:10 <jaska087> just provide simple setup with p2pool.exe included with batch that runs it against list of known monero nodes
18:59:46 <jaska087> those who want to dip their feet in more advanced stuff another setup can be provided (not docker approach)
19:00:01 <jaska087> imo
19:09:26 <QuickBASIC> <jaska087> If they can't run at least one extra app (p2pool) then they shouldn't be mining <----- You had the courage to say what I couldn't lol.
19:14:01 <jaska087> lol, but yeah I just hate baby feeding people who have no interest troubleshooting their setup.
19:14:23 <QuickBASIC> I think the best solution, would be for p2pool to be built into monerod and the GUI, so users can just click start mining, and advanced users could point xmrig at their own node.
19:16:46 <QuickBASIC> jaska087: lol, but yeah I just hate baby feeding people <--- Yeah I was flummoxed when XvB Said his users were hounding him about the batch file I put in the readme, because I just assumed users would change the '.' to the full path before running it.
19:17:17 <sech1> Docket install on Windows makes the whole system run in VM, so xmrig can't use MSR mod
19:17:31 <sech1> *Docker
19:17:57 <QuickBASIC> Or at least cd into the correct directory.