00:57:50 <nikg83[m]> Are we ok with only botnets securing the network ?
00:58:39 <merope> Look at it this way: do you really want your new financial system to be controlled by skiddies and thieves?
01:12:03 <nikg83[m]> Also they are threat to decentralisation, a few groups could be controlling major hashrate
01:14:59 <nikg83[m]> We need to increase ram requirements and get legit miners back, they can’t mine with freeloaders
01:15:10 <nikg83[m]> s/with/besides/
01:16:03 <nikg83[m]> Increasing ram isn’t going to kill these botnets entirely, but will make them less effective as number of target devices reduces
01:16:17 <nikg83[m]> And legit miners just need to add more ram
01:17:24 <nikg83[m]> Don’t argue about phone miners or a decade old cpu miner, their hashrate is so less that they better sell their hw and buy xmr
01:18:22 <merope> I actually agree on that point, mining on phones is pretty much pointless
01:18:53 <merope> As for increasing RAM, 4GB would probably be a reasonable amount. But I can't recall the original reasoning behind 2GB
01:20:23 <nikg83[m]> 8gb should be the case, even most 10yr old hw had 4gb ram and these are mostly the one with old unpatched sw that mine for botnets
01:21:36 <merope> Gotta leave some room for the OS, and possibly p2pool
01:21:50 <merope> A lot of people still have 8GB
01:22:03 <nikg83[m]> 6gb ram requirement then
01:22:14 <merope> Not enough
01:22:30 <merope> hence 4
01:22:33 <nikg83[m]> 2gb not enough for os ?
01:23:09 <merope> Lightweight linux maybe, but with p2pool in the background (even with --no-randomx) you're already cutting it close
01:23:10 <merope> And definitely not enough for windows
01:23:38 <nikg83[m]> Anyone knows of stats of % by ram on systems worldwide or a big sample
01:23:58 <merope> There's the steam hardware survey, iirc
01:24:06 <merope> But I don't have a link
01:24:45 <nikg83[m]> https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
01:25:17 <merope> (I'm off for the night - be back tomorrow)
01:25:28 * nikg83[m] uploaded an image: (146KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/qvZXtODRuZjUvAjZXcYUbrXk/ima_8fe6c63.jpeg >
01:26:03 <nikg83[m]> 8gb is common it seems
01:42:59 <nioc> windows and 30 tabs open in chrome = 12gb
02:07:03 <nikg83[m]> <nioc> "windows and 30 tabs open in..." <- Add that 8gb ram, it’s not expensive 
02:09:40 <nioc> no slots to add to  
02:09:48 <nioc> it's useless to mine on this one   
02:09:53 <nioc> unless it is by a botnet  :D
02:12:32 <nikg83[m]> nioc: Replace it 
02:13:29 <nioc> even without botnets there are enough people that will mine with free or cheaper elec than me such that it will not be profitable
02:13:46 <nikg83[m]> nioc: And you will not notice 8gb ram consumed ? 
02:14:11 <nikg83[m]> nioc: Yes reason is botnet 
02:14:24 <nikg83[m]> No legit miner to support price
02:15:25 <nioc> even without botnets I will not be profitable because of my elec cost compared to others
02:15:55 <nikg83[m]> nioc: It’s not profitable currently due to price + botnet hashrate 
02:16:15 <nikg83[m]> Was profitable to mine before asic rug pull
02:18:01 <nioc> if everyone had the same elec cost and same miner efficiency then profit would trend to breakeven 
02:20:53 <nikg83[m]> nioc: Legit miners keep prices afloat to keep mining, look at grin even that is profitable 😂 
02:22:13 <nikg83[m]> Prices going down = adoption only as a washing machine 
02:22:13 <nikg83[m]> Nobody holds, accepts n dumps for other shitcoins 
02:22:43 <nikg83[m]> Just see xmrbtc chart after anti asic
02:22:47 <nikg83[m]> And you will understand
02:24:07 <nikg83[m]> Won’t be surprised if we go 0.001 on xmrbtc if things continue like this
02:24:41 <nioc> may I suggest that there is more than one variable
02:24:45 <nikg83[m]> And only botnets will secure
02:24:58 <nikg83[m]> nioc: Yah ? 
02:26:12 <nioc> I can talk price but not here
02:27:16 <nikg83[m]> nioc: Ok, how to secure the network other than replying on few players 
02:29:49 <nikg83[m]> At the same time be vulnerable to attacks
02:31:45 <nikg83[m]> <nioc> "I can talk price but not here" <- Any place you even talk about price? we can discuss there 
03:19:23 <nikg83[m]> s/replying/relying/
08:21:56 <merope> <nikg83[m]> "8gb is common it seems..." <- Right, but look at the low end: just by requiring a minimum of 4GB (2GB for the miner + 2GB for the OS), you are excluding ~25% of all devices (all those with less than 4GB of ram)
08:22:03 <merope> That's a lot of excluded devices)
08:22:08 <merope> * That's a lot of excluded devices
08:23:24 <merope> Requiring 8GB in total would exclude 63.59% of all the computers
08:23:57 <merope> Even though most of those would be very old devices, that's still way too much
09:06:51 <sech1> hyc so all that buzz about efficient randomx gpu implementation was just some coin fork with modified randomx: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5402672.msg60527811#msg60527811
09:07:05 <sech1> how turns have tabled
11:14:05 <nikg83[m]> <merope> "Right, but look at the low end..." <- Excluding devices which can be used by botnets, if someone wants to mine they can just buy that extra ram which doesn’t cost much 
11:16:08 <merope> Many botnets attack high-end servers, which have far more ram than that. You'd actually be cutting off domestic miners for the most part - especially those mining on slightly older, pre-owned hardware
11:16:46 <sech1> more importantly, low-end device botnets don't have that much hashrate
11:17:01 <sech1> most botnet hashrate comes from hacked servers and cloud mining accounts
11:17:08 <sech1> which have a lot of RAM
11:34:37 <pauliouk> one thing I did query a while back was the number of IoT devices out there which yup have a fraction of the memory and CPU required to mine effectively, but there's freakin' millions of them out there with default/no credentials. Even if you only get 30h/s from one, if you've got 1,000,000 active thats 30Mh/s.
11:35:40 <nikg83[m]> <merope> "Many botnets attack high-end..." <- High end servers are managed and are taken down quickly, while these home pc botnets long much longer 
11:36:41 <nikg83[m]> > <@endor00:matrix.org> Many botnets attack high-end servers, which have far more ram than that. You'd actually be cutting off domestic miners for the most part - especially those mining on slightly older, pre-owned hardware
11:36:41 <nikg83[m]>  * High end servers are managed and are taken down quickly, while these home pc botnets long much longer
11:36:41 <nikg83[m]> Preowned hardware just needs addition of ram, 8gb sticks are not expensive 
11:36:46 <sech1> "High end servers are managed and are taken down quickly" oh how young and naive
11:36:56 <merope> lol
11:37:39 <nikg83[m]> sech1: High end servers > low end pcs in world ? 
11:37:52 <sech1> by hashrate, yes
11:39:11 <nikg83[m]> sech1: So you are saying majority of botnet is coming from high end servers ? Where are you getting these figures from 
11:39:20 <nikg83[m]> * of botnet hashrate is coming
11:39:34 <merope> He did say that, just above
11:39:49 <nikg83[m]> merope: He said high end servers have more hashrate 
11:39:56 <merope> <sech1> "most botnet hashrate comes..." <- ^
11:40:38 <pauliouk> one decent server > 1000 store bought home machines (give or take)
11:41:17 <nikg83[m]> pauliouk: Yes, so why are we allowing 1000 home machines to be target of botnets ?
11:41:21 <sech1> I've seen many times miners with hundreds of MH/s come and go
11:41:23 <merope> Well, maybe not 1000. But 5-100
11:41:28 <sech1> and they last for weeks
11:41:34 <sech1> "taken down quickly" lol
11:42:10 <sech1> nikg83[m] these 1000 home machines will be botntes with or without RandomX
11:42:15 <merope> nikg83[m]: Nobody is "allowing" them. They just exploit new vulnerabilities that are found in common software, until they get patched
11:42:24 <sech1> they'll just go back to good old e-mail spamming and DDoSing
11:42:29 <nikg83[m]> merope: Exploit is low ram usage 
11:42:42 <merope> wat
11:42:52 <pauliouk> a well hidden rootkit could probably keep a server running until it was noticed
11:43:11 <nikg83[m]> merope: If we needed high ram, they wouldn’t be a target 
11:43:19 <merope> The exploit is how you take control of the victim machine. What you do after you obtain control has nothing to do with it
11:43:34 <pauliouk> nikg83[m], they'd definitely still be a target, just not for mining monero.
11:43:45 <nikg83[m]> merope: I know, I am just saying too many low end devices on botnets 
11:44:13 <sech1> botnets are not Monero's problem
11:44:18 <nikg83[m]> pauliouk: Does it matter to monero ? It matters only if these machines are not used to attack 
11:44:18 <merope> nikg83[m]: But like I said earlier: you would be cutting off too many "legitimate" devices too
11:44:23 <sech1> they're the most decentralized and unkillable part of the network
11:44:27 <nikg83[m]> * to attack monero hashrate 
11:44:29 <sech1> they contribute the most to decentralization
11:44:43 <nikg83[m]> merope: How much does 8gb ram cost ?
11:44:44 <merope> sech1: Except when they all point to minexmr
11:45:05 <sech1> they can jump pools at the flip of a switch
11:45:08 <pauliouk> well yeah, if they all drop their hashrates onto minexmr then there's a risk
11:45:11 <sech1> I've seen it
11:45:17 <nikg83[m]> sech1: No, a few ppl controlling botnets doesn’t mean it’s decentralised 
11:45:28 <sech1> a few? Rather a few thousand
11:45:45 <merope> Right, but a lot of them still stick around minexmr unfortunately. Would be nice if they spread out more
11:46:27 <nikg83[m]> sech1: A few thousand? 😂 just because there is a guide on YouTube on how to use cloud servers to mine doesn’t mean there are thousands doing it 
11:46:35 <sech1> this will go away naturally when price go up and more regular people start mining
11:46:37 <pauliouk> One interesting thing might be to check the dates of public releases of exploits and the increased hashrates a few days later on various pools
11:47:14 <pauliouk> nikg83[m], I still see Windows XP botnets active.
11:47:27 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Price doesn’t go up when there is no investment from miners, anyways someone told this isn’t a place to talk about price 
11:47:42 <sech1> "investment from miners" lmao
11:47:47 <sech1> price doesn't depend on miners, at all
11:47:53 <pauliouk> price no, difficulty yes :)
11:47:53 <nikg83[m]> pauliouk: Yes and these are old pcs and can be excluded with ram requirement increase 
11:48:00 <sech1> if we don't count miners selling what they mined
11:48:02 <nioc> price does not come from miners, crypto 101
11:48:09 <sech1> if anything, miners can only sell
11:48:23 <nikg83[m]> sech1: It does, go and look xmrbtc someday with open mind 
11:48:32 <sech1> miners follow price, not the other way around
11:48:37 <nioc> ^^^^^^^^^^
11:48:43 <merope> nikg83[m]: Miner investment follows profitability (and thus price), not the other way around: https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=73&browserTabID=
11:48:50 <pauliouk> nikg83[m], 100,000 windows XP machines with 4gb of memory > 10 Epycs with 258GB memory. And a lot easier for some kid in his parent's basement to acquire
11:49:03 <nikg83[m]> sech1: sech1: miners support price if they have invested in hardware 
11:49:05 <sech1> Windows XP is 32 bit, can't mine RandoMX
11:49:16 <merope> nikg83[m]: Read the paper I linked
11:49:17 <sech1> nikg83[m] what a load of nonsense
11:49:22 <sech1> HOW do they support price?
11:49:33 <nikg83[m]> pauliouk: 10 epyc = 100k investment 
11:49:35 <sech1> they mine to sell crypto and get fiat
11:49:43 <sech1> why would they buy crypto to support price?
11:49:58 <sech1> to sell it again later, at the same price?
11:50:10 <sech1> at these point, they're traders, not miners
11:50:14 <merope> nikg83 Would you invest 100k in a business, if you had no prospect of making a profit?
11:50:16 <pauliouk> hmm, I've seen some 64bit winXP :) on poor spec systems, but heck, 100h/s is 100h/s :)
11:50:27 <nikg83[m]> sech1: No, they mine to hold it and not for some small gain ; the miners you are talking about are botnets who would dump at any price 
11:50:33 <sech1> 64-bit WinXP is an atrocity, let's not go that way :D
11:50:45 <merope> "mine and hold" - and who pays the bills?
11:50:48 <sech1> nikg83[m] miners who "invest" don't hold
11:50:52 <nikg83[m]> merope: I wouldn’t because there are others doing it for free 
11:50:57 <sech1> they have operating expenses, and quite larges ones at that
11:51:04 <pauliouk> oh its absolute atrocity, but sadly, exists :P
11:52:05 <nikg83[m]> sech1: They hold for sometime, impossible to make roi if they keep dumping 
11:52:05 <nikg83[m]> Anyways emission is low now & we are just paying 50k/day to secure our network 😂
11:52:15 <sech1> "botnets who would dump at any price" botnets have a freedom NOT to dump at any price
11:52:23 <sech1> because free electricity and hardware
11:52:50 <merope> (sidenote re: no price talk: this is not the place to speculate "number go up/down" and ta stuff; but the impact of the price on mining profitability and network security is extremely important, and is fine for discussion)
11:52:54 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Huh ? Its very tiny compared to actual hardware cost
11:53:10 <sech1> if you're a lone hacker somewhere in east asia, operating a botnet that brings you $10k/month, would you dump $10k/month or keep some?
11:53:19 <nikg83[m]> merope: Price is just a incentive for miners 
11:53:22 <sech1> the cost of living is $100/month
11:53:44 <merope> nikg83[m]: Which is the entire point of the block reward: incentive to keep the system secure
11:54:13 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Lone hacker with 1/4th mining hashrate ?
11:54:13 <nikg83[m]> And always depreciating value against btc? I would surely convert it to btc 
11:54:24 <sech1> "Moreover, the causality is always unidirectional going from the bitcoin price to the hashrate (or its proxies), with lags ranging from one week up to six weeks later."
11:54:24 <pauliouk> hmm. An IP Camera, with 2gb of memory, running some tweaked xmrig derivative ELF binary, getting 30h/s. According to a masscan log of Canadian ISPs, there's around 750,000 of these devices and all vulnerable. So... with a bit of work, theres a fair few MH/s that you don't need to pay for.
11:54:25 <sech1> checkmate
11:54:28 <nikg83[m]> * with 1/4th global mining hashrate
11:54:45 <sech1> $10k/month is 1/120th
11:55:04 <sech1> less than 1%
11:55:18 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Oops ya, i was thinking daily 😅
11:55:32 <sech1> 16 MH/s botnet earns $10k/month
11:55:37 <merope> pauliouk: You need more than 2GB for xmrig alone to mine rx in fast mode
11:55:47 <merope> Plus the OS and any other software
11:55:55 <merope> Otherwise you're stuck in slow mode
11:56:05 <gingeropolous> anyone got a link to one of these cameras? i'll buy one so we can mine on it
11:56:07 <pauliouk> doesn't need to be efficient if you don't need to worry about costs :)
11:56:10 <sech1> IP camera is probably a 32-bit ARM with no JIT compiler for RandomX
11:56:14 <sech1> less than 1 h/s
11:56:25 <gingeropolous> get some real numbers
11:56:29 <merope> ah right, 32-bit too
11:56:33 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Are we justifying botnets now ? we should just ask everyone to run one 
11:56:33 <nikg83[m]> When monero botnet kits ?
11:56:38 <merope> rip
11:56:45 <sech1> I'm not justifying botnets
11:56:49 <sech1> I'm praising them
11:56:53 <gingeropolous> monero is a botnet. just one you voluntarily participate in
11:57:00 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Yah so when botnet kits ?
11:57:01 <sech1> Leave botnets to antivirus companies
11:57:11 <sech1> Not Monero's problem
11:57:25 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Pcs that are infected have no antivirus 
11:57:40 <merope> (The ones that don't embed miners in their own software, anyway)
11:57:42 <nikg83[m]> sech1: It is a monero problem, just wait for a state actor to run their botnet 
11:58:04 <merope> The point is that the botnet lives outside of Monero
11:58:26 <merope> The fact that they choose to mine Monero is just an after-the-fact event
11:58:39 <sech1> this ^
11:58:49 <sech1> they'd infect every single PC they could in any case
11:58:59 <merope> So it makes no sense for Monero to tackle the issue
12:00:06 <sech1> if anything, Monero mining makes botnets more visible on the surface
12:00:13 <sech1> so more attention from users and AV companies
12:00:58 <sech1> so Monero pays, indirectly, for overall better PC security
12:01:01 <nikg83[m]> It makes no sense to have legitimate miners, why even keep solo miner in gui ? Or monerod ? It’s causes such bad first impression when they can’t quarantined by antivirus
12:01:02 <nikg83[m]> We can live on botnets, these solo or legitimate miners shouldn’t be cared for 
12:01:31 <sech1> if you're profit driven greedy miner, no sense
12:01:37 <sech1> there are other reasons to mine
12:02:20 <merope> The miner is inside monerod, and it stays there because it's the official/legacy solution. The core software must always be able to function independently, without any third-party requirements
12:02:28 <nikg83[m]> sech1: I am not profit greedy, I can’t waste power when there is some script kiddy exploiting some pool chap in Vietnam 
12:02:36 <nikg83[m]> s/pool/poor/
12:02:45 <sech1> you can't, someone else can
12:03:01 <sech1> For example, someone else can live in Donetsk and pay $0.01/kWh
12:03:17 <sech1> how would you get crypto in Donetsk where literally everyone banned you from traditional finance?
12:03:29 <nikg83[m]> merope: Put a separate package, as nobody cares about legitimate miners anyway 
12:03:54 <merope> Now you're just not making any sense
12:04:15 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Yah you give them red carpet to mine on botnets 
12:04:16 <sech1> "I don't care" = "Nobody cares", right
12:04:23 <merope> Literally this entire discussion has been about the impact of botnets on legitimate miners
12:04:44 <sech1> legitimate miners can find cheap electricity and still mine Monero with profit
12:04:55 <sech1> It's just that most of Europe/USA have too expensive energy now
12:05:37 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Nobody is going to invest when it’s not possible to have roi in a decade even with free power 
12:06:01 <sech1> I don't want "investor miners" here, ok?
12:06:08 <sech1> Mine with hardware you already own
12:06:22 <sech1> I don't want warehouses filled with GPUs
12:06:25 <merope> people stop mining -> the fewer miners left have more money for themselves -> they make roi sooner
12:06:35 <sech1> so that some govt shmuck can walk in and take them over
12:06:36 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Yah you want some 10000 monero users to mine against 1000000 pc botnet 
12:06:49 <merope> it's a self-balancing system, where the balance point is determined by price/profitability
12:07:25 <nikg83[m]> sech1: You need home investors, nobody in right mind is going to buy a latest amd to mine xmr 
12:07:26 <merope> but a lot of people do not like the idea of stopping mining because it's not profitable, so they keep mining at a loss, so they propagate the issue of lack of profitability
12:07:42 <sech1> millions of people already bought latest amd
12:07:57 <sech1> they can as well just start mining to get some $ back
12:07:59 <nikg83[m]> sech1: And 0.0001% know about monero 
12:08:13 <nikg83[m]> And 0.001 might be on botnet
12:08:15 <nikg83[m]> * And 0.001% might
12:08:38 <sech1> so what?
12:08:42 <sech1> botnets are not bad for Monero
12:08:55 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Bro there are not enough monero users and let alone die hard monero fans who will mine for a few dollar A month 
12:09:08 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Yah explains it all 
12:09:21 <merope> nikg83[m]: Which means it's time for some people to stop mining
12:09:43 <nikg83[m]> merope: Plenty of ppl have stopped
12:10:12 <sech1> this whole discussion will quickly evaporate when price goes above $1000 and everyone and their dog will start mining with their home gaming PC
12:10:21 <nikg83[m]> Replaced by botnets
12:10:51 <nikg83[m]> sech1: That price is a dream isn’t going to happen for a decade 
12:11:13 <nikg83[m]> And by that time botnet hashrate will even make that ineffective to mine
12:11:13 <sech1> I wouldn't be so sure
12:11:25 <sech1> In fact, I wouldn't be even sure that $ lasts until 2030
12:12:03 <nikg83[m]> sech1: I am confident now, seeing botnets are backbone 
12:12:23 <nikg83[m]> sech1: That would be nice
12:12:48 <sech1> hashrate has been stable for more than a year now: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/monero-hashrate.html#3y
12:12:54 <sech1> I don't see botnets taking over
12:13:57 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Why would they push miners on more machines when they already dominate 😅
12:14:31 <sech1> the thing is, botnets existed long before bitcoin and monero, and they're always on the hunt for unprotected PCs. They're maxed out
12:14:53 <sech1> If prices goes up, network hashrate will go up thanks to new miners, not botnets
12:15:03 <nikg83[m]> sech1: I don’t care about botnets, they are sleeping everywhere 
12:15:03 <nikg83[m]> I care about them mining monero 
12:15:23 <sech1> they're not sleeping, they're already mining with everything they have
12:16:16 <nikg83[m]> sech1: That must be your botnet, my botnet is idle 
12:16:21 <nikg83[m]> 🤣
12:16:23 <sech1> you care more about them NOT mining monero
12:16:47 <sech1> egalitarian PoW means everyone can mine and no one can be censored
12:16:56 <sech1> so whether you like it or not, botnets can mine too
12:17:45 <sech1> so you say "botnet evil, let's control it!"
12:17:47 <sech1> no thanks
12:17:50 <nikg83[m]> sech1: You are not censoring, you are raising bar for them 
12:17:50 <nikg83[m]> Why not just drop ram requirements to 256mb ? So iot devices can join in 
12:18:04 <sech1> next someone will say "people in Russia evil, let's ban them from mining!"
12:18:20 <moneromooo> And Swedes.
12:18:32 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Russia is better than west, anyways no political talk 
12:18:47 <sech1> this is a political talk, it's about ideology
12:18:57 <sech1> you let everyone participate, whether you like them or not
12:19:06 <sech1> botnet problem should be solved outside Monero
12:19:10 <sech1> AV companies exist
12:19:17 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Let’s get more bots, lower ram requirements for iot 
12:19:22 <sech1> governments exist, police should catch criminals operating botnets
12:19:27 <sech1> leave Monero out of this
12:19:49 <nikg83[m]> sech1: They are not leaving monero alone 
12:19:57 <sech1> Monero don't care
12:20:03 <sech1> it was designed to be resistant
12:20:16 <sech1> if governments can kill it, so be it
12:20:21 <sech1> we'll design something better
12:20:53 <nikg83[m]> sech1: I care about Monero hashrate & if they can attack 
12:22:10 <sech1> at current market cap, Monero is of no interest, so don't worry
12:22:21 <sech1> at much higher market cap, hashrate will be so high no one can attack
12:22:27 <nikg83[m]> sech1: So wait till they attack with gov botnets ? And then decide to fix it ?
12:23:17 <nikg83[m]> sech1: They are worried, if it wasn’t the case it wouldn’t have been blocked on some exchanges 
12:23:40 <sech1> exchanges blocked it because their banking partners said so. Not governments.
12:24:02 <sech1> "government" is not a single evil entity
12:24:06 <pauliouk> I always figured the Governments told the banking partners to put pressure on the exchanges *shrug*
12:24:17 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Japan ? Korea ? Aus ? 
12:24:22 <sech1> quite a few in the govt actually don't mind Monero existing
12:24:32 <sech1> everyone needs private currency
12:24:41 <pauliouk> I don't mind Binance being KYC - my monero goes no where near it :)
12:24:54 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Yah they are will support xmr hashrate while other side attacks ?
12:25:40 <sech1> increasing RAM to 4 or 8 GB won't save from government attacks
12:26:27 <sech1> also, 51% attack is not a "finish blow" to any cryptocurrency
12:26:41 <sech1> it comes and it goes, blockchain still keeps working
12:27:35 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Doesn’t have to be gov, can be a group of hackers which can be hired by ztrash 😅
12:29:02 <sech1> they already tried :D
12:32:28 <nikg83[m]> sech1: Yah I got the memo too 
12:33:30 <nikg83[m]> Any good resources for monero botnets ? I would like to join the army
12:34:01 <pauliouk> Monero botnets? nope. Botnets, you heard of google? :)
12:34:07 <sech1> just install Windows 7 without updates and connect to the Internet
12:35:37 <pauliouk> that'd do it :) keep an eye on any changes to your system (should take about 3 minutes)
15:28:10 <hyc> lol. also have to turn off your local router firewalls
15:28:46 <hyc> botnets are a PC industry problem. due to flaws in common OSs. not our responsibility.
15:29:17 <hyc> (and possibly also due to security flaws in common applications. but still, not our fault.)
16:07:38 <QuickBASIC> Also don't forget to open RDP on the default port.
19:36:34 <nikg83[m]> <hyc> "botnets are a PC industry..." <- Nope it’s not a problem but a boon for monero 
19:37:56 <nikg83[m]> Would like to see a support desk for botnets from monero community someday 🙂