02:47:38 <nikg83[m]> <pauliouk> "I know this isn't the place..." <- Price has effect on who mines 
09:18:09 <pauliouk> BotNets, Miners, no difference as far as XMR is concerned, all just more work being done :)
16:24:00 <nikg83[m]> <pauliouk> "BotNets, Miners, no difference..." <- Then why were ASICS booted 🤣 it got replaced by centralised botnets 😅 
16:24:38 <nikg83[m]> s/Then/Than/
16:25:00 <moneromooo> Are you claiming one botnet close to 50% of the hash rate ?
16:25:51 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: Single operator 
16:25:59 <moneromooo> Evidence ?
16:26:27 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: Same like asic, trust me bro 
16:26:47 <moneromooo> The evidence is the same as for asics ? That makes no sense. What are you saying ?
16:27:21 <moneromooo> If a botnet (or several with the same operator) is close to 50%, that is a good argument for doing something abut those.
16:27:36 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: I am saying, a single operator can be having majority hashrate or can get if and when needed 
16:28:11 <moneromooo> Yes, I got that. Can you share the evidence for the claim ?
16:28:44 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: No, same like I was not able to enter Chinese datacenter while ASICS where around 
16:29:03 <moneromooo> Are you a conspiracy theorist ?
16:29:21 <moneromooo> Or is this a language barrier thing ?
16:29:35 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: I don’t need to be, it’s theoretically possible to get as much hashrate possible with botnets 
16:29:54 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: Yah I come from Antarctica 
16:30:01 <moneromooo> Ah. You are claiming that is is not impossible it could happen, rather than it actually happened ?
16:30:29 <moneromooo> Right. I am being trolled maybe.
16:30:38 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: It could already have happened, are you waiting for 51% attack before taking any steps ?
16:31:10 <moneromooo> No, though it might come to that. I think the threshold is "reasinalbe likelihood".
16:31:28 <moneromooo> Just "it is possible" is a pretty dumb threshold, since so many things are possible.
16:32:03 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: Theoretically, any gov just needs companies to push a update with xmr mining bot and we are done 
16:32:09 <moneromooo> So given the estimated likelihoods and the benefits given, it seems like it's best to leave htem alone for now.
16:33:01 <moneromooo> Is this an argyments against.. what ?
16:33:06 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: Please tell me how are 100k-1mil pcs mining monero when it’s not profitable? Unless they are mostly all botnets 
16:34:19 <nikg83[m]> moneromooo: What happened to commodity mining ? Is botnet now a commodity which anyone has access to ? If so please feel free to post guides on it 
16:34:26 <moneromooo> I think you're just starting off several ideas and not thinkig them through, just throwing the first thought about those thne switching to the next.
16:34:44 <moneromooo> OK, I like giving people a chance before the /ignore. Job done.
16:34:54 <nikg83[m]> 🙏🏻
16:35:29 <nikg83[m]> Maybe the smart ones don’t want to open their mouth, while they keep mining with their bots
16:35:39 <nikg83[m]> Anyways continue
17:39:30 <merope> Or maybe they see the flaws in your arguments, but are put off by your dismissive tone that ignores any attempt of reasoning
17:39:59 <merope> You've been making these empty claims for weeks, purely seeking confirmation
17:44:51 <moneromooo> Assuming you're talking to nik83, it's the clear gish gallop that tells me it's likely a troll.
17:46:53 <moneromooo> There was a claim. I asked for evidence. It then became "possible", which pretty much everything is. Then morphed into conspiracy stuff (going into a chinese warehouse), and request for me to explain a few things, rapid fire. Sealed the deal.
17:47:48 <moneromooo> I mean, the previous chat from htem was low quality, but there was still a chance, you know.
17:47:58 <moneromooo> Gish gallop -> smoking gun.
17:48:46 <merope> Yeah, he's been repeating this stuff for weeks in multiple rooms
17:48:57 <merope> Looks like he left now
19:33:23 <pauliouk> I swear, if that cat stands on the power button on my laptop one more time, it's getting banned from sitting on my nice warm mining boxes
19:34:55 <pauliouk> So, the only way I can see a state sponsored attack against the Monero network 1) being possible and 2) being considered would be if there was sufficient reason to believe that a state foe was using Monero for transferring ill gotten gains in order to finance some form of malicious attack against said state.
19:36:59 <pauliouk> Would need to be some kind of malware on the level of stuxnet that somehow included the required binaries to mine randomx and remain undetected by every anti-malware/anti-virus/anti-detection/anti-everything app out there as the moment it's noticed it'll be thwarted by ISP's and IT manufacturers in a heart beat.
19:38:25 <moneromooo> Such an attack would work or not regardless of whether botnets are mining. This is evidence the asker was not in good faith.
19:38:29 <pauliouk> possible? Yeah sure, everything is possible. Likely? Incredibly unlikely - I'd sooner put a bet on XMR being worth $10,000 a piece by the end of this week than I would of that happening anytime in the next 5 years
19:41:42 <pauliouk> now... someone working in the ARM development department... with the ability to implement 1GB of L3 cache to a batch of 256 core ARM9 processors for the intention of building some kind of CPU tailored for mining randomx at a decent rate and churning a few thousand of them out with the hardware to handle it...
19:42:11 <pauliouk> probably more likely to happen
19:42:30 <pauliouk> but still so far from the reaches of reality that it does not bare thinking about
19:46:48 <pauliouk> some bad actor pwning Samsung, Google, Motorola, Xiaomi and Huawei's android update servers to push out a randomx miner in the next upgrades... more likely to happen, but again borderlines of reality.
19:48:31 <pauliouk> one android device might get on average say 500h/s. so 20 million devices would be around the 45% global hashrate
23:28:26 <merope> Low-end androids struggle to get close to 500 H/s
23:29:23 <merope> Also you'd need at least 3-4x more devices than that, if you wanted to k mount an attack that lasted more than 12-24h
23:31:43 <merope> (Because all their batteries would be draining very quickly, with all that heavy cpu usage and network traffic (not the actual data usage, but the fact that they'd need a persistent internet connection, and mobile connections cause significant drain on the battery too))