09:20:25 <Inge> pauliouk: do remember that depending upon what country you are in, this will also reduce how much goes to your pension, vacation pay etc
09:56:27 <hyc> hey, does merge mining some other coin work with p2pool?
10:26:34 <moneromoooo> Last time I knew, no. p2pool needs to switch from a hash to a merkle tree root for some value I don't remember somewhere in the header, like Tari and TF do.
10:27:12 <hyc> thanks, I vaguely recall it needed a change.
12:37:46 <Inge> merge-mining townforge + tari + xmr w/p2pool WEN?
15:07:25 <gonbatfire[m]> New GUI XMRIG+P2Pool miner, Gupax
15:07:25 <gonbatfire[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/zqonn1/gupax_v100_released_gui_for_p2poolxmrig/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
15:07:38 <gonbatfire[m]>  * New GUI XMRig+P2Pool miner, Gupax
15:07:38 <gonbatfire[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/zqonn1/gupax\_v100\_released\_gui\_for\_p2poolxmrig/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
15:08:56 <gonbatfire[m]> How much does it help for decentralization to mine P2Pool using a remote node? Does the remote node still control the hashrate? 
15:12:09 <sech1> Monero node is ultimately controlling everything
15:12:37 <sech1> But if node owner will try any funky stuff, p2pool will start to complain a lot and spam lots of warnings
15:13:06 <sech1> also, I don't think any single node can handle enough connected home miners to get any significant % of the network
15:13:28 <sech1> it must be 10k and more connections
15:13:47 <hyc> yeah I don't think epee is efficient enough for so many connections
15:14:05 <hyc> OpenLDAP has been tested to at least that many high volume connections...
15:14:23 <sech1> even if some node gets 51% of the network through p2pool and tries an attack, all honest p2pool miners will see it in their logs immediately
15:14:36 <sech1> so it can't be done stealthily
15:15:28 <sech1> as soon as a miner gets serious than just run a coupls PCs with gupax, they'll start thinking about their own node
15:15:35 <sech1> *more serious
15:16:26 <sech1> hyc btw some p2pool miners connect 5000+ miners to p2pool directly and it works
15:17:30 <hyc> using libuv right?
15:19:10 <sech1> yes
15:56:12 <gonbatfire[m]> <sech1> "even if some node gets 51% of..." <- Mmm not sure, if this actually catches on and hundred of thousands of non tech-savvies start mining, they may not care enough to change their node same way they didn't care about switching away from minexmr
15:57:16 <gonbatfire[m]> or certainly won't react immediately (who checks their logs?)
15:59:11 <sech1> But all the other tech-savvies will see it in their logs and alert everyone
15:59:43 <gonbatfire[m]> sure, but how did that go for minexmr
16:00:06 <gonbatfire[m]> it's an improvement nonetheless, but perhaps it should make users run their own node by default
16:00:08 <sech1> minexmr didn't do 51% attacks
16:00:35 <gonbatfire[m]> true but if it did would people have even cared enough to swtich?
16:00:54 <gonbatfire[m]> I'm not sure, we are talking about many thousands of individuals, not large scale farms
16:01:11 <gonbatfire[m]> individuals pay a lot less attention/care
16:01:41 <sech1> oh, I totally forgot about one thing
16:01:50 <sech1> all blocks found on p2pool are broadcasted to all p2pool nodes
16:01:52 <gonbatfire[m]> * of individuals (with minuscule hashrate each), not
16:02:04 <sech1> so you can't start mining an alternative chain in secret even if your node has 51%
16:02:12 <sech1> because all your blocks will be broadcasted
16:02:32 <sech1> it takes one honest p2pool node to prevent this attack
16:04:34 <gonbatfire[m]> what? so p2pool can't act maliciously? 
16:04:47 <sech1> malicious node can still mine empty blocks
16:04:51 <sech1> for example
16:05:09 <sech1> and orphan all non-empty blocks
16:06:07 <sech1> yes, p2pool architecture works like this: p2pool node finds a block -> sends it to other p2pool nodes -> they all submit it to _their_ monerod
16:06:09 <gonbatfire[m]> yes but why I couldn't mine in alternative chain if it controls the hashrate?
16:06:33 <sech1> because when you find a block, it gets submitted to other Monero nodes
16:06:39 <sech1> so it becomes the main chain
16:07:24 <gonbatfire[m]> oh!
16:07:50 <gonbatfire[m]> so while they can create the blocks, they can't submit them themselves like a regular pool would?
16:08:13 <sech1> no, block template creation and submission is done by p2pool nodes
16:08:48 <sech1> Monero nodes only provide transactions to mine and some crucial data to build block templates
16:09:03 <sech1> like current height, previous block, current block size etc.
16:10:44 <gonbatfire[m]> ah got it, but why it takes a single honest monerod to prevent a chain split?
16:11:17 <gonbatfire[m]> * single honest node (not sure monerod, * monerod or p2pool one) to prevent
16:11:25 <gonbatfire[m]> * single honest node (not sure if monerod, * monerod or p2pool one) to prevent
16:14:58 <gonbatfire[m]>  >sends it to other p2pool nodes -> they all submit it to _their_ monerod
16:14:58 <gonbatfire[m]> at what stage would a malicious block fail? how would an honest node detect it? and what majority would the attacker need to control in order to prevent an honest node from detecting it?
16:15:42 <gonbatfire[m]>  * > sends it to other p2pool nodes -> they all submit it to _their_ monerod
16:15:42 <gonbatfire[m]> at what stage would a malicious block fail? how would an honest node detect it (and prevent its submissions) ? and what majority would the attacker need to control in order to prevent an honest node from detecting it?
16:31:11 <sech1> it's not a malicious block, it's an alternative chain
16:31:25 <sech1> if it gets submitted, and it has more PoW, it just becomes the main chain
16:31:44 <sech1> "malicious" part is when an attacker doesn't submit it until the attack is over