01:00:55 UkoeHB: along the lines of not being able to hide transferring a special asset, have you seen the tx_out_to_script etc that linger in the monero codebase? 01:01:06 we've done a little thinking about it internally after asking around (few to no people even know about them). i figure one argument against enabling other tx_outs than _to_key in the validators etc is that would produce a segmentable set of txs.. but i suspect it's not a sound argument anyway since all to_script txs would be new traffic 01:01:29 anyway, to_script would have other privacy problems than that 01:01:36 probably 01:02:17 but i find it interesting that they're in there from 'before' 2014 01:04:44 endogenic: no that didn't really register for me (a lot of the old cryptonote stuff is still pretty opaque in my mind) 01:06:04 it's like the cosmic microwave background 01:06:36 although i guess technically that is what is left just *after* the era of opacity... 01:06:53 lol 01:07:14 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/298c9a357f6e57eccf28db1f3e734eb6da080d9a/src/cryptonote_basic/cryptonote_basic.h#L61 01:07:31 oh don't mind me, just gonna chuck a uint8 vector on the chain.. 01:07:39 op codes? what are those 01:51:21 Oooooh op codes 👀 01:51:46 Yea NRL / Monero Archival Project nodes should have reorg records since 2018 01:52:50 A while ago I wrote up some notes about how to quantitatively approach / evaluate changing the lock time 01:52:51 https://github.com/noncesense-research-lab/lock_time_framework/blob/master/writeup/lock_time_framework.pdf 01:57:13 However I now believe that only 2/3 of it is correct 01:58:55 I published that framework on 2019-10-05, and less than a week later Hasu, James Prestwich, and Brandon Curtis published a paper token economics and security 01:59:18 Intro medium article: https://medium.com/@hasufly/research-paper-a-model-for-bitcoins-security-and-the-declining-block-subsidy-11a21f600e33 01:59:25 Full writeup text: https://uncommoncore.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/A-model-for-Bitcoins-security-and-the-declining-block-subsidy-v1.02.pdf 01:59:46 I highly highly recommend their paper, it is a captivating read 02:01:40 Anyways, after reading their paper, I think that the portion of my framework pertaining to a 51% attack is not quite on the mark 02:03:07 However that's only 1 of the 3 considerations that I articulated, and I think(?) the other two are still correct and relevant 02:08:13 Hmm, at some point I wrote up a bunch of notes about how to extend the Hasu et al paper but I can't find them now 02:09:36 Basically, the paper is in the context of bitcoin and special-purpose mining equipment (ASICs), and naturally the dynamics are a little it different for a coin that can be mined on general-purpose equipment (CPUs) 02:11:19 But it's pretty straightforward to imagine how to generalize it to where the miner commitment isn't a dominant term 02:12:04 oh for lock time, you mean the 10 block lock 02:12:51 I just saw @gingeropolous mentioned "I think noncesense may have reorg #s, although as blocks get bigger those #s could change" 02:12:58 I haven't caught up on backlog or context 02:13:46 Sorry, I've been super busy with work stuff, haven't been able to keep up on IRC for a bit : ( 02:14:12 Hoping to circle back to some more research around cached rings and the transaction flood soon 02:14:40 Flood talk wasn't accepted for the conference, alas 02:15:06 I want to return to that, and use the fingerprint filter + timing to deanonymize the flood transactions 02:15:23 s/transactions/ring signatures 02:16:38 Based on what we saw a few months ago, I'm guessing we can hit >100k rings matched with confidence with ease, but we'll see... 02:24:18 isthmus: Recently for BCH chain analysis I've been working with a fast graph analysis library called igraph. Have you heard of it? It's available in both Python and R. 02:25:14 Sad to hear that the paper didn't get into the conference. They don't know what they're missing. 04:01:08 yah know that idea to use the bitcoin blockchain as a ground truth and then create synthetic ring-sigs on top of it and then analyze the synthetic ring sig blockchain to see if the ground truth can be uncovered again? 04:01:27 i wonder if we'd have to filter out coinjoins 04:02:45 ugh, might need to actually suss out all obfuscation attempts on the bitcoin blockchain.. coinjoin, whatever that auto-hopper is, 04:03:44 and most (all?) of that tech is proprietary to those companies, so it'd be building from scratch. 04:04:10 well, at least we'd get a bitcoin fungibility tool out of it 04:05:22 i wonder what other considerations may lurk that could tank it. 14:20:25 Have the application of PIR schemes for Monero been studied? 15:41:45 no