17:13:43 <atomfried[m]> has anyone already reviewed this: https://eprint.iacr.org/2022/744.pdf ?
17:13:49 <atomfried[m]> https://eprint.iacr.org/2022/744
17:14:32 <ooo123ooo1234567> https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20220614#c108646
17:19:44 <atomfried[m]> thanks a lot, the element search did not give me anything
17:19:53 <ooo123ooo1234567> element search is a crap
17:20:06 <ooo123ooo1234567> * a crap, though monerologs search doesn't work too
17:22:14 <UkoeHB> atomfried[m]: kayabanerve[m] said it has a lot of flaws. My concern is the part where it relies on ethereum (or something like ethereum), in addition to their proof of concept using a 5yr old obscure utility library (no actual Monero txs afaict).
17:24:38 <Rucknium[m]> atomfried: One of my hopes for MoneroResearch.info is that it can be a portal for comments on relevant papers.
17:24:56 <Rucknium[m]> Kayaba input comments on this paper:
17:24:56 <Rucknium[m]> https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=95
17:25:05 <ooo123ooo1234567> no, thanks for another centralized db
17:25:50 <atomfried[m]> thanks a lot for the hints where to find info about this
18:12:35 <kayabaNerve> 1) It's not possible with the current protocol. 2) It relies on Ethereum. 3) 'PoC using X for Monero' yet it never touched an actual Monero node so who knows what they're doing with Monero.
18:13:54 <kayabaNerve> While I'm not against work I'd never use within academia (see Ethereum arbitration), as it can still provide value (the cryptographic constructions), I will say I don't see much use discussing this one until we have the researchers here to discuss it, or the next person coming along to 'solve' Monero Payment Channels and we cite it as reference reading.
18:14:40 <kayabaNerve> ooo123ooo1234567: If it makes you feel better, whoever uploads papers is downloading a copy for themselves first, so it's duplication and organization, and even if this server goes down, its contributors could likely rebuild most of it.
18:15:05 <kayabaNerve> Currently trying to reach out to the Hopkins Press. The original Straus is only available through JSTOR :/
22:58:39 <ooo123ooo1234567> <kayabaNerve> "Currently trying to reach out to..." <- looks like an excuse rather than real obstacle on the way to knowledge
23:00:28 <kayabanerve[m]> ... I mean, I have a copy of it. There's also trivially available copies on a collection of sites. The issue with knowledge, outside the realm of copyright law, is that it's targeted and therefore at risk.
23:00:45 <kayabanerve[m]> HP already made the last 20 years of their journal freely available. They just only have the 1900s editions via JSTOR.
23:01:17 <kayabanerve[m]> Asking for permission to freely distribute the 1960s excerpt detailing Straus isn't some radical win for data accessibility. It's further protection for a historical document.
23:02:08 <ooo123ooo1234567> kayabanerve[m]: Was it useful ?
23:02:54 <ooo123ooo1234567> <kayabaNerve> "Currently trying to reach out to..." <- What's the point to reach that entity if there is already available copy ? contradiction
23:02:59 <kayabanerve[m]> I believe the original Straus description is very useful. Unfortunately, the papers including it seem to be a extended analysis which don't just briefly include the algorithm. There's also a lack of layman's documentation available on multiexp algorithms.
23:03:02 <ooo123ooo1234567> * to reach out to that entity
23:03:17 <kayabanerve[m]> ooo123ooo1234567: There is not a legally available-to-the-public copy.
23:03:48 <kayabanerve[m]> JSTOR is a paid database. The copies otherwise available to the public are not legal, and therefore at risk. Obtaining legal permission ensures open access without question. It's a nice to have.
23:03:56 <kayabanerve[m]> I managed to acquire a JSTOR copy, but...
23:04:08 <ooo123ooo1234567> kyc of magic / desire to populate another centralized db is preventing you from using freely available copy on the internet
23:04:44 <ooo123ooo1234567> kayabanerve[m]: wow, did you pay for it ?
23:05:16 <kayabanerve[m]> JSTOR access is generally given for free to people in organizations, such as schools, where the organization covers the bill.
23:05:39 <kayabanerve[m]> This copy was paid for. I did not personally pay for it. This is irrelevant and I don't feel a need to engage further.
23:06:44 <ooo123ooo1234567> kayabanerve[m]: 100% sure that after some time spent on problem it doesn't matter what explanation to use
23:07:22 <ooo123ooo1234567> that was my point that there is no so much value in non public copy of old math journal
23:07:24 <ooo123ooo1234567> s/non/not/, s/public/available/
23:54:40 <kayabaNerve> Marginal, if any, yet I'm a sucker for history and I believe they'll be amenable, so it's at least worth it to me to spend 20 minutes on the phone for it