02:10:24 <m-relay> <c​haserene:matrix.org> could there be a method of of deriving Jamtis addresses such that once/if EdDSA is swapped for a post-quantum sig algo, the addresses remain the same? I'm very quietly hopeful because this would mean the migration could be undetectable from an end-user perspective
16:10:42 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> MRL meeting in this room in 50 minutes
17:00:41 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Meeting time! https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/954
17:00:46 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> 1) Greetings
17:00:51 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> hi
17:00:57 <rbrunner> Hello
17:03:18 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> 2) Updates. What is everyone working on?
17:03:47 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> I integrated most of the MMS in Feather this week, with the new messaging service and some experimental changes. It's very much a work in progress and a lot more thought needs to go into security and gracefully handling every possible failure mode, but the groundwork is taking shape.
17:04:00 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> Just finished a first iteration for a wizard that guides users through setting up a new multisig wallet: https://a.uguu.se/zrhtMwpK.mp4
17:04:09 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> And here is an earlier proof of concept for sending a 2/3 transaction: https://a.uguu.se/eZxZwMxu.mp4
17:04:29 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> I'll have more details to share in the coming weeks and hope to have a MVP ready soon so I can begin coordinating a testing group. I'm keeping a path towards future integration in the GUI (and other wallet_api wallets) in mind while I work on this.
17:04:30 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> me: OSPEAD. I added about 20 recent papers to moneroresearch.info . PHCitizen performed the first BCH<>XMR atomic swaps on mainnets: https://monero.observer/phcitizen-executes-first-mainnet-bch-xmr-atomic-swap/ . There is a fundraiser for a BCH<>XMR atomic swap frontend: https://atomic-flip.pat.mn
17:06:58 <rbrunner> tobtoht: Looks quite promising already!
17:07:19 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> 3) Discussion. What do we want to discuss?
17:08:27 <m-relay> <t​obtoht:monero.social> rbrunner: I have to say the MMS is beautifully written and the abundance of clearly written comments make it easy to understand and a joy to read. Can't believe I ever suggested "the nuclear option" in case we didn't find a replacement for PyBitmessage before the next hard-fork.
17:08:48 <rbrunner> Thanks. Good to hear.
17:09:07 <rbrunner> So it will live on after all :)
17:11:38 <rbrunner> Is there interest in the BCH community for those swaps?
17:11:51 <rbrunner> I mean, do you see people taking notice of the developments?
17:12:03 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Yes
17:12:15 <rbrunner> Nice
17:12:47 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> e.g. https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/190m3nf/first_ever_bchxmr_atomic_swap_on_mainnet/
17:13:02 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> BCH developers created the swap implementation
17:13:49 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> The BCH fundraiser for a front-end already has 101 BCH donated: https://atomic-flip.pat.mn  . The fundraiser has been live for 4 days AFAIK
17:14:55 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> I skimmed some of the papers I added to moneroresearch.info . AFAIK, nothing truly groundbreaking in that set, but I can give short summaries of a few of them if people want to hear.
17:15:13 <rbrunner> That's quite some money already then on that fundraiser
17:16:11 <rbrunner> Is anything directly about Monero?
17:16:35 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> In the new moneroresearch.info papers?
17:16:39 <rbrunner> Yes
17:16:54 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Yes, a few
17:18:12 <rbrunner> Just had a look. Interesting what is all going on.
17:19:25 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> There are a few that are "How can we create a Monero-like system, but allow a central authority info about tx information". A few that are "how can we embed message info in Monero." But a few that are useful:
17:19:40 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Vijayakumaran (2023) "Analysis of Cryptonote transaction graphs using the Dulmage-Mendelsohn decomposition" https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=39
17:19:59 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> This one was released as a draft in 2021. It was presented/published at the Advances in Financial Technologies conference in 2023.
17:20:25 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> There was not a big change to the results from the draft. The main result was that with RingCT and ring size 11+, chain reaction attacks on Monero are not effective unless you have additional info like users spending on a fork of the Monero blockchain. This could be relevant to Mordinal analysis when "black marbles" reduce the effective ring size.
17:20:35 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> This new version was posted with MIT licensed code that performs the analysis with this nice documentation: https://www.respectedsir.com/cna/
17:20:49 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Wang, Lin, Huang, & He (2023). "Anonymity-enhancing multi-hop locks for Monero-enabled payment channel networks." https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=203
17:21:08 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> This is N + 1 of payment channel network (PCN) on Monero. BTC Lightning is an implementation of PCN. I think there are 3 or 4 of these papers now. This one may have better privacy than other proposals.
17:22:13 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Buccafurri, De Angelis, & Lazzaro, (2023) "A traffic-analysis proof solution to allow k-anonymous payments in pseudonymous blockchains." https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=199
17:22:23 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> This is a possible replacement for Dandelion++. But it is only two pages (I think it's just a summary for a conference). And the components seem too complicated.
17:23:03 <rbrunner> Is this the output of a few months of papers?
17:23:23 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Yes. I didn't update it since August 2023
17:23:43 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Scheid, Küng, Franco, & Stiller (2023) "Opening Pandora's box: An analysis of the usage of the data field in blockchains" https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=212
17:23:53 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> This analyzed Monero and other blockchains for different filetypes embedded in transactions. The data they used stops in 2022 AFAIK. This paper could be useful for Mordinal analysis.
17:24:31 <rbrunner> Yeah, only that it seems Mordinals already went the way of the Dodo ...
17:25:33 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Dijk & Schröder (2023). "Proof of concept for a Ethereum virtual machine on Cryptonote."
17:25:33 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=198
17:25:51 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Schröder wrote a few papers about Monero. This is a paper for Beldex. I think this PoC is just embed plaintext Ethereum contracts in tx_extra. If anyone asks "how can smart contracts exist on Monero?", they can be sent this.
17:26:12 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Movsowitz Davidow, Manevich, & Toch (2023) "Privacy-Preserving Transactions with Verifiable Local Differential Privacy."
17:26:12 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> https://moneroresearch.info/index.php?action=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=194
17:26:15 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> This maybe could help with keeping file data out of Monero signatures and with requiring a specific decoy selection algorithm. But I think it requires a trusted setup.
17:26:54 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Those are the papers that I thought could be useful.
17:27:14 <rbrunner> Thanks, fascinating in a way.
17:27:47 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> If anyone wants to add papers or write your own notes about the papers to put on the papers' webpages, I can create a user for you. Just ask me.
17:29:20 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Anything else that we want to discuss?
17:29:45 <rbrunner> Not from me.
17:29:46 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> I saw your question, chaser , but I don't know the answer
17:29:59 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> "could there be a method of of deriving Jamtis addresses such that once/if EdDSA is swapped for a post-quantum sig algo, the addresses remain the same? I'm very quietly hopeful because this would mean the migration could be undetectable from an end-user perspective"
17:30:56 <m-relay> <c​haserene:matrix.org> thanks for the paper summaries, some of these are very exciting, e.g. PCN. I propose putting some in the"Open Research Q's" GH issue
17:31:04 <rbrunner> No idea either about that question
17:31:32 <rbrunner> I guess "no", but that's just a gut feeling
17:31:35 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> chaser: Good idea. IIRC already a few of the PCN are there. But I should add this one.
17:32:12 <m-relay> <c​haserene:matrix.org> yeah, I hope II hoped kayabanerve or @tevador may be able to answer it
17:33:27 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Yes, already there are three payment channel papers in the open research questions list : https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/94
17:34:25 <m-relay> <c​haserene:matrix.org> thanks. while there, could you look at the comments? I've been stacking there papers there that may belong there
17:34:51 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Sure. Thanks for that.
17:36:12 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> We can end the meeting here. Thanks everyone.