00:00:14 <br-m> <articmine> @boog900: I am planning to double the fees
00:01:08 <br-m> <articmine> It is needed to support tx weights up to 20000 bytes.
00:02:00 <br-m> <articmine> For smooth scaling up to 8 in 16 out FCMP++ transactions
00:03:05 <br-m> <articmine> This is with a penalty free zone of 1000000 bytes 
02:19:34 <br-m> <articmine> By the way tx weights drive the penalty which in turn drives fees. So tx weights are very closely related to fees
02:20:12 <br-m> <articmine> This is completely different from Bitcoin type crypto currencies.
02:20:23 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> Double per byte, or per input etc? > <@articmine> I am planning to double the fees
02:20:39 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> If you look at stressnet, the fees are already quite high
02:22:26 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> about 15c if pretending that testnet was 300$ per xmr on normal (lvl 2) fee
02:24:39 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> Fee (per_kB): 0.000519840000 (0.000084925999)
02:24:39 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> Tx size: 6.1211 kB
02:25:17 <br-m> <namenet:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: Is it possible to lower this fee? I noticed my testnet fee was also approximately 10c
02:28:47 <br-m> <articmine> When all the weights are sorted out the fee for a 2 in 2 out tx will over 2x what it is now. 
02:28:47 <br-m> <articmine> There are two factors:
02:28:47 <br-m> <articmine> We are increasing the scaling rate from 1% to 2% 1000000 bytes for the penalty free zone with a reference tx size of 20000 bytes.[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/voiUw8EKZ0pVQnV6 ]
02:30:09 <br-m> <articmine> I am opposed to a lower penalty free zone than 1000000 bytes for FCMP++
02:31:33 <br-m> <articmine> This is to keep the fees from raising higer
02:31:41 <br-m> <articmine> Higher 
02:32:11 <br-m> <articmine> What are the scaling parameters for testnet?
02:33:23 <br-m> <articmine> Penalty free zone, tx weights etc
02:33:51 <br-m> <articmine> Reference transaction size?
02:35:40 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> @articmine: Untouched
02:36:32 <br-m> <articmine> From now with a tx weights of say 9000 bytes?
02:36:38 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> @ofrnxmr: this is what a lvl 2 (normal) 1 in 2 out tx looks like
02:37:37 <br-m> <articmine> Then 0.15 USD is about what I would expect 
02:38:04 <br-m> <articmine> If not more
02:38:11 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> what would this look like under proposed changes?
02:38:30 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> Approximately
02:42:42 <br-m> <articmine> For the low fee ~0.025 USD based upon 300 USD/XMR
02:43:08 <br-m> <articmine> For the normal fee 4x that 
02:43:39 <br-m> <articmine> So 0.10.USD
02:45:55 <br-m> <articmine> This is with a penalty free zone of 1000000 bytes 
02:47:15 <br-m> <articmine> I suspect that some people will think it is too low and other too high 
02:48:00 <br-m> <articmine> This y for 1 in 2 out 
18:50:56 <br-m> <gingeropolous> it seems fine to me. I think the fee calculations should satisfy these requirements: 1. reasonable for the average user making average transactions, 2. designed such that industrial users are incentivized to create optimized transactions (it shouldn't cost less to make 64 transactions that are chain-heavy (storage and compute) that could be handled by 1 transaction that is chain-lite. 
18:52:04 <br-m> <gingeropolous> well, i guess heavy could cover it. because there's chain-heavy (storage) and network-heavy (compute, bandwidth). 
19:04:16 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> 1. Is a matter of $/xmr 2. Agree
19:10:23 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> At $300, 10c for a "normal" tx fee might sound a bit high, but at $3000, its prohibitively high.
19:10:23 <br-m> <ofrnxmr> Imo, i have np with raising the low fee from 0.00004 to 0.00008, but id also reduce the normal multiplier from 4x to 2x. So instead of 1 4 16 1000, id do smthn like 1 2 20 100 1000
20:28:00 <br-m> <sgp_> I have a radically simple fee proposal that I can organize if there's interest. The highlights are:
20:28:00 <br-m> <sgp_> Eliminate min fee. Create a small penalty free zone (e.g. 400 kB), and allow miners to grow blocks from that zone to X size (e.g. 2x the penalty zone size, in this example 800 kB) with linear penalty from the tail emission to X until tail emission is fully depleted at X. Allow growing X by y% per block (e.g. 10% per year). Req [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/4aeE4sEKZWRyOGpC ]
20:28:00 <br-m> <sgp_> This removes the need to "guess" what a fair USD/XMR rate is. It allows for market competition for block space. And it allows for continuous growth over time to account for technological advancements
20:28:40 <br-m> <sgp_> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/HcsfjofWLvrwQRLheLBindZQ.png (image.png)
20:29:10 <br-m> <sgp_> works for XMR @$1, and XMR @$100,000
22:10:19 <br-m> <elongated:matrix.org> @sgp_: We need to be realistic
22:17:43 <br-m> <sgp_> @sgp_: In case this wasn't clear, I mean it works for all values