00:00:07 you can help us all, buy up all monero on exchanges at market order no limits, and keep doing it 00:00:24 now the ticker price for the 0.1% moved sets the "price" for the other 99.9% of monero :D 00:00:29 imaginary number go up 00:00:44 but price discussion is fit for elsewhere 00:03:04 Almost - you need limit orders too 00:03:34 Need to create walls below the market price 00:04:02

HODL the „real PoS“ 00:04:52 Not strictly price related, but seriously speaking: calls to raise emission or fees, doesnt matter if price goes down 00:04:57 no. just keep doing infinite market buys each tick 00:05:22 fees++, emission was a very touchy one and still is, regardless of bad past 00:05:46 Other coins have, as an example, raised dev fees from 3%-50%, and the price of the coin kept tanking. You cax tax or fee at 100%, it means nothing if the price od the coin is falling faster than you raise taxes 00:06:11 fees = tx fees 00:06:13 not dev fees :D 00:06:45 Its the same thing in the grand scheme - its a tax on users to fund something 00:06:58 monero is so "easy" to mine that any discrepancy in price to make it profitable by renting servers on spot makes the profit part disappear quick 00:07:30 if we 2x fees and monero is $130, what did we change? Nothing 00:07:59 someone suggested making fees tied to hashrate :D 00:08:11 but that ends up with a spiral down 00:08:21 the price of monero is tied to hashrate 00:08:43 So value of the fees are already tied to hashrate 00:11:03 what if HR accepted by the network per miner was capped? 00:11:08 "normal" fee tier went from 1c to 3c, and block reward went from $75 to $155. If we were to change emission but NOT increase adoption, the only thing that happens is more coins are sold 00:12:37 02:11:03 what if HR accepted by the network per miner was capped? 00:12:39

btw. is RandomXV2 finsihed? 00:12:39

I think FCMP++ already runing „in test mode“ right? 00:12:40 what is a miner 00:12:51 someone can just make 1000 wallet outputs 00:12:59 @p-q:matrix.org: as we speak 00:13:05 you also can't distinguish them on chain without their keys 00:13:32 also. 51% can be done by someone in secret 00:13:36 then pushed all at once 00:13:46 @jwinterm:matrix.org lets add fcmp to that wownero hard fork. Who needs audits? 00:14:33

@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: V2 also? 00:14:56 no redesign, but the end step already exists 00:15:01 No, v2 isnt being tested 00:15:21 Its been tested, but is not live on fcmp 00:15:30 https://github.com/tevador/RandomX/pull/265 00:16:20 that's the only change to randomx, but no more changes to how it arranges random code for modern architectures 00:17:34 the relevant monero-project tracking issue is https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/8827 00:18:30 I see, and then we're back to signing blocks again > you also can't distinguish them on chain without their keys 00:18:43 and they can make single keys per block :) 00:24:00

So i see it positive, FCMP+ is running, V2 is on the agenda, dns checkpoints are on the roadmap and being tested, just wownero lags a bit behind with mergemining 00:24:28 so everyone who wants to support monero should buy asics for other algos and swap on CEXs for monero 00:25:16 (then not trade it back to cexs) 00:25:57 qubic in reverse 00:26:02 :) 00:31:20 new IRC bridge? 00:34:13 Yes new bridge 00:34:45 It's not in all channels yet 00:38:48 not all channels indeed 00:39:01 feel free to gather feedback and send it to me (on both sides!) 00:39:24 on irc it supports puppets for matrix users that opt-in, but I have that currently disabled for this first run 09:48:20 ofrnxmr: >> Midi: any POW coin is susceptible to the qubic strategy, as long as qubic can pay more than the previous sum << sure, but some coins security budget is way too large for a qubic type attack. it's not like we would merge mine with a minor coin, that would be irrational. in theory, the choice would only be between a select few. 09:51:32 nioc: >> it seems that they chose transparency and compliance, nobody is perfect << yeah, ok - maybe that is fair fair. though, some of the mitigation proposals have been deployed in other coins previously, whilst we believed that PoW would "always" be secure - which seems to not be the case. 09:54:14 i don't think its a case of "transparency and compliance vs security". it might be a case of "decentralisation vs security" though (which is really not a great tradeoff). that is why i think the merge mining idea has merit, as it doesn't necessarily compromise on decentralisation. it just piggy backs on another coins network distribution (with all the tradeoffs that brings). 11:56:26 midipoet: , from what I understand, selfish mining is the malevolent behavior 'from "crowd sourced" CPUs to attack specific coins'. Well, I guess a bad actor could still mine empty blocks 11:57:00 if you are forced to publish your blocks, then you can't do the whole thing they are doing 11:58:57 merge mining requires the support of whatever network we hope to merge mine with, doesn't it? 12:50:55 No 12:51:18 As long as their blocks have space for arbitrary data, merged mining is possible 12:51:31 With the same algorithm of course 13:43:34 merge-mining with tari so you can merge mine while you merge mine 13:44:32 :D 13:46:17 on a more serious note, i've been looking at the "Publish or Perish" mitigation, and i find it interesting but i am wondering about a few things: 13:46:48 - how will it affect statistical analysis for ring signatures? 13:47:36 - how will it affect wallets that don't rely on a "full" node and their privacy? 13:49:33 s/ring signatures/RingCTs 13:58:14

Theoretically MergeMining should also be possible on more then 1 coin at the same time, if the algo is the same. 13:58:14

Correct me please if i’m wrong. 13:58:14

Because as far as i understand you just broadcast the data between the chains.sech1 13:59:21 @Mus this is what f2pool does with several sha256 coins and more scrypt coins 13:59:40 15:58:14

Theoretically MergeMining should also be possible on more then 1 coin at the same time, if the algo is the same. 13:59:40 there is a merkle root + merkle root proof per chain, correct 13:59:59 Yes, it's possible to merge mine several coins if they all use the same merge mining format 14:00:01 you build a merkle tree that includes each of the merge mined chains 14:06:47

Thanks pros so i think i understand it right. Both ways / no limit to „how much coins at the same time“ + works in both ways as long as it is supported. 14:06:47

So i think this is a good point for the future on PoW. 14:09:42 qubic has started mining selfishly 15:47:12 +6 depth within a few seconds 15:53:26 (2.4m) 15:54:43 now +7 15:58:03 6 reorg detected 15:58:39 5* 16:13:18 seems qubic has started introducing like one non-qubic tx on their blocks 16:13:30 but still like 7/8 are qubic own transactions, it's funny 16:13:49 most blocks are still made up of only qubic identifiable transactions 16:14:10 sort of random, I guess they can't fine tune this 18:20:29 I added recent monero pool stratum tips of some pools on https://qubic-snooper.p2pool.observer/tips.txt 18:27:16 i was wondering why `xh` didn't work for that url and now i notice you're the go-away dev :p 18:27:29 the xh user agent is not part of the default filter lists i presume 18:27:46 I don't have go-away on that 18:27:59 it's probably buttflare 18:30:38 huh... i guess they changed something again ^^;; 18:36:49 helene: that link seems to work with curl here and even via tor 18:37:12 btw, it'll refresh automatically if on a browser, even without javascript 18:50:37 curl works, but xh doesn't (maybe it triggers something on Cloudflare, no clue); but i'll just be using my web browser instead :) thanks for the data! 18:54:12 if curious, use this from command line $ watch -n 30 curl --silent https://qubic-snooper.p2pool.observer/tips.txt 20:08:53 I don't buy this Litecoin miners are just going to attack us if we merge mine LTC+DOGE+XMR argument. The Scrypt miners are just going to say thank you for long term extra money, and merge mine all. They have no financial reason to attack. As I understand, Qubic will have to bribe not just against Monero but against XMR+LTC+DOG [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/usOTg7EKQVRBcDhu ] 20:15:16 I don't see why having more long-term merge mined coins would not be in the financial interest of Scrypt miners. They're not going to risk bag holding their their ASIC for some extra short term gain. And in fact the whole uPoW narrative of Qubic would fall apart because what useful "AI" PoW are you doing on a Scrypt ASIC except mine LTC+DOGE+XMR? 20:27:15 If monero has to merge mine with a memecoin to survive, then it should die 20:28:56 @testtank:matrix.org: everycoin is a memecoin 20:30:31 Not monero 20:30:58 which part of everycoin did you not understand? meme just means some distilled idea that is easily communicable 20:31:04 secure. private. untraceable 20:31:08 ^this is a meme 20:31:17 egalitarian mining...believe it or not...also a meme3 20:32:13 Sure man 20:32:31 I'm also warm to the local PoW idea, more than merge mining, if it really works. How high is the confidence that local PoW really works and can't be circumvented? 20:34:32 @testtank:matrix.org: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/rxjGgYqRmaAOeSIUEfcJndcV.png (image.png) 20:34:37 from the horse's mouth 20:35:03 21 million hardcap for btc, yup, also a meme 20:35:57 Anonymous sound internet money! 20:36:15 @unt0ld:matrix.org: I think if you use a bitaxe as your requirement it's pretty weak, there's tons of old antminer S9s and stuff floating around which presumably could do local PoW for a few racks of CPUs 20:36:26 @unt0ld:matrix.org: nice meme brudda 20:36:54 Also call every other coin snitchcoin. Offensive use of memes. 20:37:20 #monero-research-memes 20:46:13 A) wownero merge mines with doge 20:46:13 B) wownero merge mines with xmr 20:47:54 I'm not buying the "wont attack" as if most 51% attacks werent the direct result of being a minority chain. Dogecoin has higher hashpower and market cap than LTC because of elon musk, not because merge mining provided magicical inherit security 20:48:38 Example: why doesnt tari have 4gh of merge mined randomx? What are monero pools doing with the tari? Dumping it. 20:49:18 So what if they're dumping it? 20:49:32 Tari = monero in this situation. 20:49:37 Most of CPU isn't deing dumped? You belive that? 20:50:14 i believe non-botnet monero miners arent auto-dumping, correct 20:50:35 I believe all asic farms are auto-dumping 20:50:37 It appears the laregest monero pools like supportxmr and nanoppool have teamed up to fight against Qubit selfish mining by selfish mining 20:50:58 @privacyx: where do you see that evidence? 20:53:20 i see evidence to the contrary of that with both DataHoarder’s work and chain observers 20:54:50 also as for monero not being mined to be instantly sold 20:55:11 it’s reasonable to imagine, it’s banned from most CEX 20:56:41 the main goal of randomx as i understood it at the time was to allow anyone to acquire monero anonymously even if exchanges had banned it, so that the coin could fulfill its purpose 20:56:50 but if i misunderstood that feel free to correct me :) 20:58:13 In the mining pool stats@ofrnxmr:monero.social 20:59:19 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/eAjiBCRzEdrDHJMMjAVYfMlT.jpeg (1756760351472.jpeg) 20:59:50 Thats showing qubic (blue) is successful in orphaning the red pools 21:00:42 Its usually the other way around yeah? 21:00:43 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/deMPZddEppkotvEQlmyXaFpr.png (image.png) 21:00:51 @monerobull:matrix.org: this was obviously going to happen 21:00:59 Even cfb is complaining about it 21:01:08 its the most effective way to punish them 21:01:13 ffs what is this, a bullshit fake news channel? 21:01:28 so we believe what he says now? 21:01:39 i mean, i think its true 21:01:45 its not true 21:01:49 ive noticed a lot of their blocks getting reorged the last few days 21:01:50 See the pic right above yours 21:02:21 mb have you seen DH's explanations about it? 21:02:56 nope 21:03:07 Ok my bad i got it wrong i thought the red is one doing orphaning 21:03:25 nope. Red one is the one getting orphaned 21:03:36 gingeropolous: they could still mine empty blocks and/or censor transactions couldn't they? 21:04:44 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/BkSGhggoIIIDjUrCzbAUHdct.jpeg (1756760678166.jpeg) 21:05:02 So this ones 21:05:47 those are single blocks, and that happens everyday 21:06:14 very simplified explanation, they are trying to create a long alt chain which leaves them vulnerable to having them all orphaned at one time 21:06:19 Qubics blocks propagate slowly due to withholding txs 21:06:20 Good on the pools if they do it. They must follow their market incentives. And collude towards common goals. They're actors too. I hope they choose the growth of Monero. 21:06:45 so this is just coincidence? 21:06:46 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/hXUJdaVIQBxRWDwbXVRuHIFa.png (image.png) 21:06:48 may I suggest you read everything that certain people post and scroll past the rest if you don't have the time 21:07:11 @ofrnxmr: mbll ^ 21:08:02 any paraphrasing by me will be poor 21:08:12 They might be ahead when they broadcast, but higher if "honest" pools find a block before qubic can complete the broadcast, then the honest chain becomes longer 21:08:34 Ahhh ok 21:08:35 @ofrnxmr: im not sure if im fully convinced by that but sure 21:08:50 .. 21:09:01 its not an opinion 21:09:23 its how fluffy blocks work 21:09:24 Not only this, because of the way they do selfish mining, their blocks are always synced they aren't proactively sent around the network > <@ofrnxmr> Qubics blocks propagate slowly due to withholding txs 21:09:42 Qubit is struggling with the hash rate as supportxmr hash has grown up to nearly 1.70GH 21:09:45 if q succeeds it's their doing and if they fail it's someone else's fault 21:10:05 :) 21:14:25 clearly if they can’t succeed it’s because other pools are doing selfish mining — don’t mind the fact that there’s multiple p2pool blocks on the winning chains 21:14:55 p2pool must be doing selfish mining…… somehow 21:16:33 I have gained 51% control of P2Pool to selfish mine. 21:16:55 -- unt0ld-from-beyond 21:21:39 @unt0ld:matrix.org: You overtook the dude with 70%? 21:22:09 helene: P2pool has far more efficient propagation than qubic 21:22:22 Because every p2pool miner broadcasts the blocks 21:23:20 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I come with "about as believable as CfB" guarantee! 21:23:56 i said it as a joke but i’m struggling to figure out how one could do selfish mining with p2pool… unless you do it against p2pool itself i guess? 21:28:10 p2pool is a pow sidechain with 10 second blocks and uncles. Its probably the same or similar rulebook on selfish mining there as anywhere else 21:28:37 If it eas immune to selfish mining, we'd just apply those rules to monero 21:29:22 you can also selfish mine with p2pool by running a private p2pool. Theres nothing forcing anyone to use main/mini/nano 21:29:39 figured it worked like that too but i never looked very deep into p2pool 21:30:18 oh definitely, i was just wondering if there would be any interest to an attacker to do something like that 23:14:18 wasnt this guy on a rant about how he was attacking dogecoin now? 23:14:34 why does he still have a hard on for killing the only crypto that has a purpose 23:14:44 on twitter he keeps saying how he won't stop until monero is PoS 23:16:49 because it's much harder to convince miners with dedicated hardware they have invested in to destroy the value of their ASIC investment?