00:42:27 Their own bug. They forgot how to track blocks 00:42:46 See https://blocks.p2pool.observer/ 06:05:08 who runs https://xcancel.com/MoneroResearchL ? 06:13:39 <321bob321> batman 20:17:10 https://x.com/monero/status/1834292929877180697 20:17:18 Except there is an issue with outgoing view keys 20:17:31 https://github.com/hbs/MoneroMisc/blob/master/CARROT-discussion.md 20:17:46 Please give us a choice 20:18:27 Why not better privacy by default? 21:07:42 I'd argue there is adequate choice since users can simply not share the key 21:10:34 If you truly assume a dystopian information sharing case with exchanges, you could also assume they require the full seed of your wallet 21:13:45 agree 21:13:59 @sgp_: That would mean violating the right to private property. What is wrong with making non auditable wallets the default? 21:16:03 non auditable wallet is a misnomer 21:17:01 a buzzword to appeal to the layman when the topic is more nuanced 21:17:15 Yes, let's make it easy for them 21:18:54 plowsof: why so? Any naming suggestion? 21:32:05 <321bob321> What scenarios do think its good ? 21:34:10 @hbs:matrix.org: The default, from a technical standpoint, is for you to not share anything 21:44:48 @sgp_: What downside do you see to not having outgoing view key by default? 21:47:20 ^^^^^ 21:48:21 <321bob321> Probably off ramping from ccs 21:59:56 @hbs:matrix.org: Many people use a "view wallet" to check their balances on less secure devices. If the default configuration doesn't allow a simple view wallet, it's less fully featured than one that does and makes creating such a view wallet less intuitive for users 22:00:21 I don't think the current situation with view wallets and key images was an intentional pro privacy choice so much as a necessary (at the time) compromise that we can finally do away with 22:04:49 @monero.arbo:matrix.org: By lowering the privacy Monero provides? 22:07:06 I don't really agree with the arguments that it functionally lowers privacy 22:07:43 dealing with key images has always sucked and been bad and was never (I can't imagine) an intentional design choice 22:08:17 I was talking about the outgoing view key 22:08:28 Plus it's in line with the ethos (and practical reality) of optional transparency 22:09:03 we already have an outgoing view key, it's just more annoying, is the thing 22:09:57 The key whose exact purpose is to share your transaction history does in fact do that, yes. I see 0 issues with this. If you don't want to share your info, simply don't share the key 22:10:47 @sgp_: How about the key doesn't exist by default? 22:11:09 Under hbs proposal, they can create an auditable wallet > <@monero.arbo:matrix.org> Many people use a "view wallet" to check their balances on less secure devices. If the default configuration doesn't allow a simple view wallet, it's less fully featured than one that does and makes creating such a view wallet less intuitive for users 22:12:56 The current process of viewing wallets already has terrible privacy and sucks. It's the worst of both worlds 22:13:27 the current is trash, and is a compromise on both ends. we can agree there 22:13:31 @ofrnxmr: right, my point is that a view wallet is a common enough use that your average user would expect it by default. It's currently a pain point for Monero that this isn't the case 22:14:05 @sgp_: Again, I am not suggesting that vide balance key is not introduced, just that it is an opt-in 22:14:58 for conversation purpose, is it really as easy as setting s_vb=k_ps to create a wallet with functionally no view key? 22:15:24 Privacy by default please 22:15:41 nioc: nobody is arguing against that 22:15:45 @monero.arbo:matrix.org: That's what @jeffro256 said yes 22:16:27 @hbs:matrix.org: For the view balance key that is 22:16:40 Good then we make it opt in \o/