02:01:29 focus on code and algorithm auditing plz 02:01:29 talking about economics is fool, because monero is an asset not a kind of money 02:07:10 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/vShtqrTMdcWnqdRWQLCBNmLv.png (clipboard.png) 02:17:56 money is something that pays tax with 02:17:56 you don't pay tax with xmr or btc 02:21:52 you are saying that what is money is determined by a government 02:22:24 that is, it is declared by fiat 02:22:34 hence the name fiat 02:23:47 money is not determined by gov, it is widely accepted by people 02:24:08 fiat is widely accepted by gov force 02:25:41 money is something that pays tax with <<>> I took this as meaning that you were saying that the definition was determined by the govt 02:27:32 @yushanren:matrix.org: This contradicts your point about taxes. Are you using a state-based or market-based definition? 02:28:57 i might be wrong in logic, but what makes you think xmr is money? 02:29:15 it could be, but not so soon 02:29:49 I have used it as money but it is not widely accepted as money 02:30:00 @yushanren:matrix.org: There are many places in real life where Monero is used as money, and there are probably at least a dozen people in this room alone who are paid their salary in Monero 02:30:36 just because i am the holder now, doesn't mean i can use it freely in everyday life 02:31:19 @jpk68:matrix.org: i prefer to buy more, not to spend it 05:49:36 > <@sgp_> sech1: we were accepted to the Claude Cyber Verification program, including your account 05:49:36 I attempted to use the latest Claude Fable 5 within Devin (ex Windsurf) to perform a routine security analysis of a smart contract as I've done previously with Opus 4.8 and the request was purely and simply rejected, so I guess this program is now the only way to have advanced models perform security analyses. 05:50:17 I will check Monero's ringct/bp+ code today with Fable 5 05:53:34 sech1: The same prompt works with Opus 4.8 Max but fails with all Fable 5 ones so I think they included some "safety" filters. 05:55:10 Even a prompt as simple as "Perform a security analysis of the XXX smart contract" fails 06:03:55 Yes, I know. I still haven't tested if my account is whitelisted now, because I have another urgent matter at hand 06:08:02 sech1: I managed to tweak the prompt so the analysis could start but as soon as the thinking phase identified a potential issue (which actually isn't one), it aborted the process. 06:08:15 yes, it was the same for me yesterday 06:08:19 I'll try later today 06:10:32 this urgent matter: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1u1tt1p/psa_critical_p2pool_security_update/ 07:56:11 Why alert about a security vulnerability with no patch, which will make threat actors look for that vulnerability and exploit it during that timeframe? 07:56:11 Why not wait till patch with obscuring commit message and commit change (Ex: multiple code changes at once and not the problematic code only)? 07:57:10 then announce it publicly? 07:57:29 the patched code can show what the exploit was 07:58:00 @monerify:matrix.org: > patch with obscuring commit message and commit change (Ex: multiple code changes at once and not the problematic code only)? 07:58:08 so if it's released now before people are aware and awaiting the update, it's much easier for an attacker to abuse the nodes that haven't been aware of the news 07:59:14 @basses:matrix.org: might have been an option too, i guess 07:59:20 how you can be sure that now attackers are motivated to look for this exact issue right now as they have more breadcrumbs to trace where this issue could be exactly 08:00:11 It's hard to obscure what I found, believe me 08:02:19 can you detect if someone is exploiting it in the wild? 08:03:36 yes 08:03:50 DataHoarder has checked it already, it's not being exploited and never was 08:04:31 good, hopefully safe till patch date 08:06:11 even in my own codebase @basses:matrix.org in Go it's affected as it matches behavior, and it's even harder to obscure 08:06:38 hmm, ok. 08:06:46 I'm not placing the tests that check for it but it's clear with the specific fix. It'd be released along other of my own fixes/consensus checks 08:11:46 thanks everyone 08:18:42 sgp_ I'm still not whitelisted for Claude Fable 5 - it switched to Opus 4.8 again because "cybersecurity" flagged 08:21:21 sech1: it always switches on that, as Fable is Mythos with the guardrails 08:22:08 so I guess it'd switch if you are approved 08:22:09 No, my account should be whitelisted - I did sign the "responsible use" agreement 08:22:23 for the magic grants team account 08:22:31 does it show up as a different model then? 08:22:41 No 08:58:29 I disabled the fallback, otherwise you may end up thinking it's an analysis done by Flame 5 when it was only Opus 4.8 09:02:47 "Flame 5" :D 09:13:39 sech1: It's a fable :-) 09:20:49 Its not as big of a deal as they try to market it for months. You can just use 4.7/4.8 opus and give it enough $$$ to work. 09:21:31 Their main goal is to get you out of zero-data-retention, meaning reading all your conversations and train on them. 09:22:59 You could just put the same guardrails on every account. Every malicious actor can apply for cyber program anyway. KYC use a dipshit ukrainian for 30$. Its 50% marketing, 50% wanting your data. 12:07:18 yes it is a scam. anything above deepseek v4 flash thinking low is a larp. they are all cooking with water. 12:09:59 zookos BOSL license is the main culprit. nobody besides the zcash cultists looked at the code. the ai "narrative" is a distraction and they succeeded with this distraction. (so far) 12:30:17 hbs: use a more specific prompt. it does not have to be security related. in the end "vulnerability research" is just a subset of quality assurance 12:37:50 It’s possible they don’t really support it for Fable since it’s so new. I’ll check but there’s no separate option on my end to turn on or off for certain models only 12:43:25 Glasswing is a separate tier 13:00:02 https://nitter.net/0xTib3rius/status/2064442190240100597 13:06:37 isnt "fable" some old rpg game by microsoft? the names for these things are so turbo cringe i have a hard time to suspend disbelief and pretend this magic zip file can do something 13:07:11 llms are only useful if they are used to gain a deeper understanding of the codebase and the problem. if they are not used as a tool to help the developer achieve that goal, they are just a source of entropy and a distraction. 13:15:35 @spirobel:kernal.eu: fable also means a type of story in french 13:20:26 @syntheticbird: in German there is the word "Fabel" as well. it means some old made up story about something. really quite fitting 13:22:24 In English it also means the same thing :D 13:23:32 why is there different langages already ? 13:24:05 We should all be speaking Esperanto. Take the Rust route and rewrite all literature in Esperanto 13:25:01 @jpk68:matrix.org: you almost got me there, it looks so much like a prompt I was about to do it 13:31:43 nitter.net/spirobel/status/2064210981274923325 saw zcashers liking this post. and there is a former ecc member agreeing with my characterization 13:32:56 https://nitter.net/januszg_/status/2064310786806206946#m 13:57:28 two options: 1. this ai powered vulnerability searcher is a genius and ai is really smart now and can break anything 2. the zcash codebase was toxic waste for anyone outside of the zcash orbit because of the BOSL license 14:00:16 the reality is number 2. but they managed to convince the market of 1. including the people running the monero twitter account and vik. 14:03:38 great opus marketing 14:07:50 why would a license prevent people from looking at the code? 14:08:10 did they have a BBP? 14:10:41 @boog900: look at the BOSL license and you will see why. 14:10:49 @boog900: by reading this message you agree to pay me 1000 xmr 14:10:50 why would you look at the code of some shitty license that prevents you from using it 14:11:06 @boog900: dont think so no. the researcher is asking for donations now 14:12:36 @monerobull:matrix.org: that might lead to your unrelated work being forced to pay for zookos groceries in the future 14:13:30 Zooko the typa guy to sue Anthropic for having trained on all of github 14:13:58 You dont get it, he DESERVES at least 5% of their company now 14:14:04 similar situation why people working at large companies are not allowed to read patents 14:15:30 btw does anyone have a usecase for fable 5 that isnt security related? i had a usecase, it oneshotted it, ran out of subscription session usage, i added way too many credits and now have 97% of credits sitting here 14:15:56 janusz worked at ecc before so it is zcash insiders agreeing with my pov. ( and more zcashers liked this post, so you can assume there is a large fraction that knows this is the true ) > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> https://nitter.net/januszg_/status/2064310786806206946#m 14:24:27 monerobull I wanted to use it for creating bioweapons but they they blocked that too, useless model. 14:27:05 Aww 15:01:02 https://x.com/SergioOSINT/status/2064723683910824263 15:01:23 So yes, this doesn't give unrestricted access to Fable 5. But unrestricted Opus 4.8 is not that bad too. 15:19:30 sech1: Yeah fake news in original post 16:16:07 @rucknium:monero.social, there are no reason not to ban fireine 16:16:42 this guy is a schizo 16:17:08 he is just a sealion 16:18:11 @rucknium:monero.social I think this would be far more preferable to muting the room. Muting also prevents many users without level 10 (including myself) from contributing to the discussion 16:18:53 can mute a single user. let him read. 16:19:19 I will try to boost everyone who has sent messages recently to level 10. Just muting a single user does not prevent ban evasion through creating new accounts. 16:19:28 just lower his power to -1 iirc 16:19:41 how about both muting and banning him 16:19:47 sounds like a good option to me 16:21:14 People have used new accounts to evade bans in MRL in the past. 16:22:27 I shouldn't speak for other people but I feel I should mention that at least one person that has been mentioned pretty regularly isn't comfortable being mentioned/cited in such a manner 16:23:36 or to put it simply, please do not associate Cypher Stack work with this new crop of contributions. 16:24:44 or rather--it is not associated with Cypher Stack except in that some past papers and some real life conversations seem to have served as some inspiration and that's it. I am not really in a position to speak "for" CS anyways 🤡 16:25:21 @rucknium: I would honestly just mute him alone for now 16:25:42 Which should at leash usher /nudge him to use the correct rooms 16:26:06 i meant "least", but leash works too 16:27:10 "alone" meaning, not the whole room. Just set his power lvl to -1. He can still read along, just cant have verbal diarrhea and blow up everybodies notifications 16:40:06 schizo or Zersetzung 16:41:06 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung 16:43:46 @spirobel:kernal.eu: I wondered what relation "MONEROCHAN OS" had to the MoneroChan of yours (I think it's yours) I know of--I'm assuming no relation? 16:45:10 @spirobel:kernal.eu: Or maybe he's an MKULTRA victim ;) 16:45:39 @jbabb:cypherstack.com: there is constant bullshit with it in the name ... there was also some zcash based tech used as scam with monerochan in the name 16:47:32 not sure if this is random bullshit of people trying to profit or if there is some concerted action. 16:47:53 since the gon gate i distrust unknown accounts entirely 16:48:13 many attempts to glaze first and then do some kind of psycho bullshit 16:49:14 last one ended with sean bowie and zooko having a conversation with sock puppets in my replies 16:49:42 where they announced zcash wallets cant be used without an "enterprise kit" anymore 16:50:35 Genuinely, thank you for the rabbit hole > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung 16:50:43 I need something interesting to read 16:52:05 Maybe should be on here: https://endwalker.com/archive.html 16:52:12 16:57:57 I don't see a way to give users -1 power levels on Matrix. It doesn't accept negatives. 16:59:10 needs room update 16:59:29 (probably) 17:00:05 Dont type it in, use the arrow keys 17:00:55 If that doesnt work, then its probably that the room is old 17:01:33 room version 6 17:01:46 Arrow keys worked. Thanks. 17:08:20 Feel free to upgrade the room version later. The bridge will automatically migrate on receiving the tombstone 17:08:44 based bridge