09:10:54 <ErCiccione> That's correct, i'm halting most of my volunteer work, which include translations, but none of my dev work.
09:11:03 <ErCiccione> <monero-guides[m]> "there's lots of enthusiasm..." <- Happy to know it was a good idea 🙂
09:11:28 <ErCiccione> I still think that a redesign is the last thing the website needs
13:23:32 <monero-guides[m]> <ErCiccione> "I still think that a redesign is..." <- what do you consider to be priorities?
14:04:05 <ErCiccione> <monero-guides[m]> "what do you consider to be..." <- 1. update dev guides 2. update user guides 3. update moneropedia entries and other outdated sections 4. add new moneropedia entries 5. everything else
14:09:42 <john_r365[m]> Hello :)... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/5351552ef0a7dbb46401daed4db9d2dda60c44db)
14:11:11 <ErCiccione> - It's the year 2140. Erciccione asks once again if somebody is working on fixing Matomo. He is assured somebody will work on it soon -
14:11:35 <john_r365[m]> Lol
14:12:11 <john_r365[m]> What kind of server access would you need to fix it?
14:12:56 <john_r365[m]> Do you have SSH and/or sudo?
14:13:46 <ErCiccione> The last time i pinged about Matomo i suggested core to hire somebody to take care of backend stuff in a reliably way. I was told it's not necessary and Matomo would have been fixed soon. The first time i was told that was 2 years ago 🙂
14:14:06 <ErCiccione> last time was August
14:14:21 <john_r365[m]> john_r365[m]: Ok, but this?
14:15:38 <john_r365[m]> Another aspect I think is really important 
14:15:38 <john_r365[m]> Is to know if we are over optimising pages that aren’t getting any traffic 
14:15:38 <john_r365[m]> And if they aren’t getting traffic (and we think they should be), the priority would be to find out why 
14:15:38 <john_r365[m]> Maybe internal linking needs improving 
14:16:27 <john_r365[m]> Maybe it needs a more search optimised title 
14:16:27 <john_r365[m]> Etc etc 
14:16:39 <ErCiccione> yeah, those are the reasons i've been asking to implement it for the last couple of years
14:17:11 <john_r365[m]> Right
14:17:11 <john_r365[m]> So just to circle back on the prior question 
14:17:11 <john_r365[m]> You don’t have server access, and you need it to install Matomo?
14:17:31 <john_r365[m]> Only person who has access is… pigeon?
14:19:28 <ErCiccione> I don't need any access. I asked that the people who has it install Matomo. So, pigeons, yes. If somebody wants to join me in this frustrating battle, you are very welcome. Maybe we manage to get it working within the next couple of years
14:20:12 <john_r365[m]> Is pigeons the _only_ person with server access?
14:20:13 <john_r365[m]> If there’s more - it might help to know - as then there’s a few potential points of contact 
14:22:21 <ErCiccione> core has access, but the person who takes care of the backend is pigeons as far as i know. I've been trying really everything to get things done. There are other things related to getmonero's backend that are still waiting (like language autodetection). i'm just sick to point it out every couple of months and being told every time that it will be worked on
14:23:48 <ErCiccione> if you search on this room on matrix "matomo" you'll know what i mean
14:24:33 <ErCiccione> ^
14:25:36 <john_r365[m]> Hmm, there’s got to be a way to get this done 
14:25:37 <john_r365[m]> Who pays the bill for the server? Fluffypony?
14:26:55 <john_r365[m]> ^ Presumably they’re the direct person to talk to about adding a second caretaker
14:27:25 <john_r365[m]> Carrington - maybe we can add this as an agenda item to a meeting?
14:30:46 <carrington[m]> Unfortunately in my experience the people in "Core" don't often turn up to set dev, research or community meetings so it may be better to reach out to them directly
14:31:33 <john_r365[m]> Ok
14:33:50 <john_r365[m]> Im a bit rusty on who is in core… I think it used to be on the website... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/9093103d348e420a6b6421f4298d33472f23a988)
14:34:39 <john_r365[m]> I’ll try asking Fluffypony first, as I seem to remember he used to pay for a lot of infrastructure 
14:34:39 <john_r365[m]> So he might be more involved than others 
14:37:14 <ErCiccione> john_r365: binaryfate and pigeons are the two people to ping about this
14:37:22 <john_r365[m]> Thanks!
14:38:42 <john_r365[m]> binaryFate is busy at the moment I think 
14:38:42 <john_r365[m]> Travelling or such like
14:38:42 <john_r365[m]> So will have to make a note in the calendar to circle back to the issue when he’s next around 
14:40:30 <john_r365[m]> This is definitely a logistical not a technical hurdle
14:46:31 <ErCiccione> yeah. I really do appreciate pigeons taking care of this as a volunteer, but that's not really working out.
14:48:36 <ErCiccione> i tried to tell core so many times, but i have the feeling that we always circle back to ask pigeons to take care of something, which very often it's not delivered. Hence me suggesting core to hire somebody to take care of the backend, so that requests can be reliably implemented, but they don't agree.
14:50:34 <ErCiccione> The most absurd thing is that Matomo was installed by rehrar but never worked. Nobody was aware of it. I asked rehrar why we had javascript code for matomo that gave 404 errors and he simply answered something along the lines "Matomo never worked, i messed up something in the settings". This was about 2 years ago and since then i've been pinging about the issue every few months.. and here we are.
14:53:02 <ErCiccione> I gave up at this point, so i'm happy somebody else spearheading this. If i hear another "we'll fix it this/next week" i freak out hulk style 😛
14:54:53 <monero-guides[m]> from the way you write, i'm not surprised you're giving up volunteer activities XD
14:55:38 <monero-guides[m]> i can think of a neat solution. make a new site that isn't getmonero
14:55:52 <ErCiccione> i'm a tiny bit frustrated by a number of things, yeah :P 
14:55:52 <monero-guides[m]> this is a decentralised community after all
14:56:19 <monero-guides[m]> if those with the keys dont want to help, it should be left to rot
14:56:20 <ErCiccione> i have really no interest in doing that, but if somebody is willing to do it they have all my support
14:56:40 <monero-guides[m]> yea.. i suppose that's it, someone has to step up
16:13:29 <binaryFate> Matomo as a piece of software running server side on the website hosting server, where we are hosting official release binaries for people to download, is within the most critical infrastructure there is
16:14:02 <fluffypony> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/blob/master/SERVER_SETUP_HARDENING.md
16:14:06 <fluffypony> this is how we secure that server
16:24:39 <binaryFate> <john_r365[m]> Who pays the bill for the server? Fluffypony? <-- it was fluffypony in practice, with globee sponsorship until few months ago. Now it's me since they stopped sponsoring and we have yet to figure out if there's a new sponsor or if we pay from general fund.
16:26:12 <fluffypony> we're happy to have someone else trusted access the server, but the challenge is that they need to be intimately familiar with the tools we use
16:26:22 <fluffypony> they can't just make changes unless they're documented 
16:26:31 <fluffypony> the setup / hardening guide is meant to be a living document reflecting the server's state
16:33:33 <ErCiccione> do we know if pigeons would be interested in working on the backend in a more involved way? Like part time
16:33:59 <ErCiccione> i'm happy to hear this is now being considered btw
16:34:09 <ErCiccione> this = hiring somebody
16:34:44 <ErCiccione> no sorry i'm having a brain fart. Disregard the last message
16:36:42 <ErCiccione> binaryFate: i though globee stopping their sponsorship was only temporary. Do they have no intention to keep sponsoring?
16:38:02 <binaryFate> TBH I don't know for certain, but I'd say 99% no they don't.
16:38:04 <ErCiccione> In any case i hope you are not using your personal finances, there is the general fund specifically for this stuff 🙂
16:40:41 <binaryFate> I am paying 2k$/month from my pockets yes, since September. When I find out that nobody globee or otherwise wants to step up to cover that period, I'll probably get a refund from GF. Slightly worried about trolls jumping on me getting money though, since I'm also escrowing the GF, but so be it if need be
16:44:25 <ErCiccione> that sounds like a less than optimal situation. Hope you guys can figure things out soon and take off that weight from your back
18:11:29 <monero-guides[m]> it would be great to have somewhere to point this enthusiasm for sure
19:02:29 <john_r365[m]> fluffypony & binaryFate - thanks for the info and context - that helped me better appreciate the sensitivity of the issue. There's a lot at stake with that server.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/9b09e33966e78efdeff83e06513b5159109d33db)
19:04:34 <fluffypony> if they compromise the site they can point the downloads to another server, so it doesn't matter that we're protecting the one server and not the other
19:06:01 <fluffypony> it's kinda binary - it's the same reason we don't automatically deploy changes to the server once they're committed to GitHub, we need to have a manual barrier between the two as GitHub is less well secured
19:08:03 <john_r365[m]> that makes sense, thanks for pointing it out